officials to change the management structure at a ukrainian state-owned energy company to benefit individuals involved with rudy giuliani's push to get ukrainian officials to interfere in our 2020 election. rick perry said that he would look into this, that was before the white house letter came out earlier this week, saying essentially that the administration would not comply whatsoever. the question is, what will they do next? a big question, jake, is what did he know about what rudy giuliani did? the president directed giuliani to talk, to deal with -- directed perry to talk to giuliani about his conversations with ukraine. gentlemanic? >> manu raju on capitol hill. let's chew overall of this. the allegation is starting to get dense and confusing. but the allegation is that there's a bunch of ukrainians in ukraine, and president trump, rudy giuliani and others are