Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20140801 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 August 1, 2014

And brought back to the u. S. As always, we want to know what you think about all these stories. Make sure you tweet us using the askdon. Were going the begin tonight with breaking news in the war between israel and gaza. A ceasefire set to take effect just two hours from now. It is a 72hour humanitarian ceasefire to allow aid to reach civilians in gaza caught up in the fighting. Israelis and palestinians will head to cairo to try and reach a more lasting deal. This current agreement also shows how fragile this piece will be with the United States, that Ground Forces will remain in place. We have all the angles covered for you tonight. Martin savidge in jerusalem. John vause is in gaza city. Michelle kosinski has late reaction from the white house this evening. And elise labott has the latest, all the details from the state department for us. Well begin with john vause in gaza. John, were still seeing explosions throughout the night in gaza after the agreement was announced. Now the ceasefire just two hours away. How do things look at the moment . Well, don, we have heard that constant barrage of artillery coming, mostly from the eastern part of gaza city. There has also been the sound of automatic weapons fire. And weve also seen the flares in the sky. Sometimes that means there could been an air strike on the way. That hasnt happened. Sometimes those flares are used to light up the battlefield. So that could have been why those flares had been in the sky just a few hours ago. Obviously the sun is out now. So theyre not needed anymore. Now shortly after the ceasefire deal had been announced, hamas fired a number of rockets into israel. But in the last couple of hours, it seems hamas has pretty much held its fire. But we have been told here by palestinian officials that in the town of khan yunis, at least eight people were killed in one air strike by israel. And then four others were killed just east of there. So since this deal was announced, but not going into effect, palestinians say at least 12 people have been killed here in gaza. Don . How likely is it that this will hold 72 hours and possibly longer, john . Well, this time it does seem different. And the difference here is it seems hamas has accepted the israeli demand that troops can stay here and continue to search for those tunnels, continue to search those tunnels. At least on the territory, on the ground that its holding right now. Hamas could be making a calculation here. Because we did hear from an israeli general a day or two ago saying they found most of the tunnels already. Theyre going to rack up this operation in about two days. So if that really is the case, if there are no more tunnels to be found, and israel simply walked away, well, hamas may not have anything to show for the past 25 days. So they may be thinking lets head into negotiations. Maybe we can get something out of this. Maybe we can get something to show for more than 1400 dead palestinians, thousands of homes destroyed. And also, don, its a pretty grim humanitarian situation here right now. About a quarter of the gaza strip have been the people who live here rather, a quarter of the population, theyve been displaced from their homes. 200,000 now living in u. N. Shelters. Another 250,000 living with relatives or friends. Maybe on the street or particular, there is no electricity here and supplies are running low. Maybe thats part of the calculation by hamas, maybe not. Don . Thus the need, as you said, for this ceasefire. So that they can get humanitarian aid in there. Thank you very much, john vause, stand by. Well get back to you if there is breaking newsy you are. Well get to where cnns Martin Savidge is. We heard pretty quickly from hamas that they had signed on to the agreement. It took the israelis a bit more time to come out and publicly come out and accept this deal. Why the delay . Probably because israel was wanting to see if hamas was going to go forward and sign on to the deal. I think that the israelis would maintain that they have been down this road about five or six times previously with talk of a ceasefire. And that each time the israelis say it is hamas has not agreed to it or hamas has violated the agreement. Hamas would of course see things differently. Im sure that the delay was in part. They just want to make sure hamas was going to sign on this time. And also israel probably wanted to go through and mike sure that its criteria were met, number one, that its troops could remain in gaza, and number two, that it could continue to destroy the hamas tunnels that have been discovered so far, don. So the question, will this ceasefire do anything to stop israels stated goal here of destroying hamas tunnels into israel . It wont. Thats what they want. Thats the end game for them, correct . Correct, yeah. Israel has maintained that ceasefire or not, they will go ahead and destroy those tunnels they know. Now defensively, under the terms apparently, israel could destroy the tunnels it has found. I think the question for many in the israeli population might be, well have, you found all the tunnels . Because these tunnels really have been a surprise as far as the number of them and the size of them and the construction of them. And it now has sort of trumped the concern over rockets coming out of gaza. So i think many israelis want to be certain that after this operation is completed, whether its stopped by a ceasefire or stopped by Something Else, that the tunnels are done away with. Thats priority number one. Martin savidge watching the story for news jerusalem tonight, thank you very much, martin. Here at home, new reaction from the white house tonight. Michelle kosinski standing by. It took the white house a few hours to issue a statement on this. Why did it take so long . Hi, don. Right, it seems at first they wanted to let secretary of state john kerry have the floor on this, let him announce the news, alongside the u. N. Secretary general. Let that stand for a while. Especially since there has been some criticism of kerrys leadership within israel. But of course this is such a delicate situation. I mean, the prior ceasefires either havent been accepted by both sides or didnt last very long. It seemed pretty clear that the white house wanted to give it a minute, let it sink, in and then carefully craft a very diplomatic statement. So what they ended up saying was the u. S. Strongly supports this ceasefire. They see a permanent ceasefire as the only Sustainable Way forward. They urge both sides to start negotiations in cairo. And said that the u. S. Stands ready to support a successful outcome. Also, a Senior Administration official told us that the president has been involved in this, that he has been advising kerry, as well as talking to the israeli Prime Minister throughout this process, don. So, michelle, its interesting that the white house statement, unless im wrong, includes no mention of hamas, one of the two key parties here. But also a group of the u. S. Has designated a terror organization. Why no mention . Well, you might look at this as a very sort of clean, crisp statement. And some of the criticism of kerry within israel that came out in the press and among some officials was that he was being too accommodating of hamas. So how clear it is that this is a sensitive situation. The negotiations have been very difficult. So the white house didnt want to stoke any fires. It wanted to put out this just very simple statement. What they are saying, though, earlier, they didnt mince words earlier in the day. It was the press secretary who first criticized israel in the strongest words weve heard since this conflict, calling it totally unacceptable and totally indefensible that they had ended up shelling a u. N. School. But they also had words for hamas, saying that unlike israel, they do not take pains to protect civilians. Don . Michelle kosinski, well be watching this for us this evening at the white house. Thank you, michelle. Joining me now, Peter Beinart the author of the crisis of zionism and thank you, gentlemen, for joining us. Peter, the question as i mentioned to michelle, they never mentioned hamas in the white house statement. U. S. And israel have deemed them a terrorist organization. The two sides wont talk to each other. Can anything be accomplish heard . Will the negotiations work . It seems like its going to be difficult. Hamas, and not just hamas, but almost all palestinians want some relief from the blockade that has destroyed the economy in gaza and produced a tremendous amount of suffering. Israel wants the demilitarization of gaza because they want to make sure there are no more rockets and tunnels. Maybe between the two goals there some kind of deal. But the question is who would carry out the demilitarization . I think the only answer can be a palestinian unity government that brings Mahmoud Abbas back into gaza and allows for elections that are legitimate among all the palestinians, including in gaza. What do you say to that, Alan Dershowitz . Well, elections are wonderful if they produce the right results. But the last time there was a palestinian wide election, hamas won. And then pulled off a coup detat and killed the other palestinians. I want to congratulate john kerry pulling off this deal, even if its temporary. And i think it also vindicates israels turning down the initial qatari deal because israel got a better deal now. They can continue to destroy the tunnels which pose enormous threats to israel. I agree with peter about one thing. I do think this would be a very good time for israel to sit down with the Palestinian Authority and try to renew negotiations about a twostate solution. They have weakened hamas. They have, i think abbas has strengthened himself by playing a role here. This may be a good time to move to a twostate solution. Alan . If we can end the blockade that brings in food, but maintain a blockade that prevents rockets and cement from coming in, its a winwin. Kirks i ask you quickly, does this effectively mean negotiating with terrorists, though . Is it a Necessary Evil . Well, i think it may be a Necessary Evil. Israel should not negotiate nor should the United States negotiate. In fact, its against the law to negotiate with a designated terrorist group. But we can negotiate with the Palestinian Government that has in it some that may help us move toward piece. Okay. Peter . What this really shows is a desperate need for a Union Representing all the palestinians which precisely what the Israeli Government has been militantly opposed to since the deal was created at the beginning of june, even though that palestinian unity government backed by hamas accepted israels right to exist. If you want to have a legitimate palestinian partner to negotiate with, who controls both west bank and gaza, that Palestinian Leader has to have the democratic legitimacy of his people, just like an Israeli Government does. I know alan is concerned that the party that israel wants to win may not win. But in fact once you have you have to take the risk of having elections so you can have a legitimate Palestinian Leadership. You can certainly respond if people attack you. But israel needs to try to help create a legitimate Palestinian Leadership. Can i jump in here . One of our reporters on the ground is saying that hamas is painting this as a war to win all wars. The final showdown with israel. So can a ceasefire truly hold . Can anything be accomplished if one side is painting it that way, a war to end all cars . I think ultimately this is bigger than just hamas. The question is can there be the emergence of a legitimate Palestinian Leadership that can talk to all the Palestinian People and that israel can negotiate a serious deal with . With hamas, no. But with most palestinians still want a twostate solution. And i believe that a Democratic Electoral process among the palestinians stands a better chance of producing a leadership that can make a deal and stick with it than what we have now which is a fragmentation. Speaking of chances, alan, do you think that there is a chance that this can hold, or it is just giving each side time to refresh before republicaning the fighting again . No, i think there is a chance it can hold. If israel can destroy all the tunnels and can degrade the ability to send rockets, it can hold. Where i disagree with peter is he has a simplistic view of democracy. Democracy is not just voting one day and oppressing your opponents the next day, which is what happened in egypt. Its what happened in gaza. A real democracy requires that the election be won by people who are prepared to afford rights to those on both sides of the election. And peter trusts hamas. I do not. The United States government does not. We made a mistake having an election last time. Egypt made a mistake. And i think that its very important that israel negotiate with the Palestinian Authority if they want to let him get in here, alan. Okay. Egypt did not make a mistake in having that election. The mistake was of us not being tougher on the coup. In fact, when the coup that was launched against in gaza was launched at americas behest against the hamas after hamas won an election. An election that could have led to a just the kind of National Unity government that we have today, a government that empowers Mahmoud Abbas to negotiate on behalf of the Palestinian People. And then the palestinians have a referendum afterwards on that deal. Quickly. Thats what israel will do and thats what the palestinians should be able to do. Im up against the break, guys. Thats going to have to be the last word now. I appreciate it. Were standing by because were just hours away from a temporary ceasefire in the middle east. We have new information about the terms of the agreement yet. Plus, israels complicated relationship with the United States. Is the u. N. Taking sides in this conflict . And two americans with ebola headed back to the u. S. Tonight. We have an update on their condition. Well be right back. 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A temporary ceasefire in the middle east in less than two hours, israel and hamas will will they lay down their arms and stop firing rockets for the next 72 hours, giving people in gaza time to get more food and water . Well see and care for the injured and bury the dead. So were checking on that, and were watching that for you very closely. Meantime, i need to tell you that secretary of state john kerry is calling this a lull of opportunity to address ways to find a sustainable ceasefire. Listen. While we are grateful that the violence and the bloodshed has the opportunity to stop for more than 24 hours, it is up to the parties, all of them, to take advantage of this moment. There are no guarantees. This is a difficult, complicated issue, years and years in the building. And i think everyone knows it has not been easy to get to this point. The question is will the truce be productive . Our Global Affairs correspondent is elise labott, and she joins us now. Elise, i understand you have some new information about this these negotiations and how they will proceed. Don, as you know, in the next 48 hours or so, the palestinian and israeli delegations will be coming to cairo for longer negotiations on a more durable ceasefire. Those negotiations on the palestinian side will not led by hamas. Hamas will be part of the delegation. But that delegation will be led by a group of palestinian officials appointed by president abbas. And thats really important because the israelis and palestinians will not be sitting hamas will not be sitting at the table with israelis. And this is, as peter was saying, kind of an effort to empower president abbas in terms of hopefully eventually taking over Security Control in gaza. And egyptian officials are telling me, don, is that egypt is not going to guarantee this ceasefire as they did in 2012. They really want to put the responsibility on the parties to come and show their commitment to trying to find some durable solution. They say that theyll facilitate. Theyll offer solutions. But its really up to the parties to show some credibility here, don. Now, what im told is this is kind of a lot of jawboning over the last 48 hours. Secretary kerry really putting a lot of pressure on Prime Minister netanyahu to accept this ceasefire. And qatar also played a very key role in terms of the amir of qatar and the foreign minister putting pressure on hamas lead Khaled Meshaal saying listen, you do not have a choice. You need to accept the ceasefire. Qatar really one of the only friends of hamas right now. I want to bring back Peter Beinart, the author of the crisis of zionism and Alan Dershowitz, the case for israel. He joins me by skype. There has been a lot of criticism of the secretary of state, john kerry. You and i talked about this earlie

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