Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20180731 01:00:00 :

Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Because the email said they were talking about a sealed indictment in a Russian Court about Hillary Clinton. Sealed indictments have been released in the past during campaigns. As you recall in 2004, there was a State Senator from illinois. He was a democrat. He was running against a republican who had a lot of money, and his so you dont see anything sleazy about the meeting . No. No. Do you think Rudy Giuliani is doing a good job representing the president in the Public Sphere . Yes. Because it seems to be hes made contradictly statements, confusing statements. Do you think thats part of his job to sort of muddy the waters and have people say, look, I Dont Know Whats Going On and throw up their hands . So to muddy the waters, one, this is going to get this is ultimately going to be fought in the public, and its a political knife fight for the presidency. Were 99 days out from the midterms. It is essentially, as steve bannon has said, Donald Trumps first reelect. Look, the democrats, they dont want to talk about impeachment. Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Republicans who would be very happy to see donald trump impeached in the senate hes laying the case out systematically. What do you see as his bias . Are you talking about that not bias. Heres what i see. Heres giuliani is now raising this specter of hes inherently biased. He should have recused himself because of some conflict between them i dont think its a conflict between donald trump and Robert Mueller on the golf course. Thats a side issue. My issue is, is that we have 325 Million People in this country, and i think we have a lot of lawyers in this country. I understand why you would want to get the former fbi director in general, objectively, to be the special counsel when youre investigating the president of the United States. But Robert Muellers argument on obstruction, hes using james comey. If you look at the questions that have been leaked, even the in the new york times, right . It was reported in the new york times. If you look at the questions, the questions that involve michael flynns firing, because that involves what james comey alleges that donald trump said to him. You look at all of them. Theyre all interrelated to james comey, and theyre also essentially the same way Michael Cohen was essentially wiretapping donald trump, right . He has his iphone and hes copying it. These Contemporaneous Memos that james comey say have probative value, which mueller clearly does. Then mueller has this relationship with james comey that i find to then investigate the firing of james comey, when you lobbied barack obama for him to be your successor, theres something theres a problem with that. It does seem, though, that we dont really know i mean its one thing for us to talk about the Mueller Investigation because of little leaks, things that have leaked out or things that have been ascertained because of court documents. We really dont know the vast iceberg thats underneath the surface. And that goes exactly to why Robert Mueller, to this point, hes spent a lot of money. Hes almost spent more money than ken starr has spent in all these years, can issue some kind of report so we can see the nature. As you know, for an investigation, its not gone on that long compared to the benghazi investigation, compared to irancontra. I agree exactly from that point. But we should at least get some idea, lets say, so that we know why . Because why give up information about an Ongoing Investigation . About preliminary findings, about whether or not the Trump Campaign had some kind of coordination with these emails. And putin did the hacking. I would like to see where this is going because what we dont know is what is going on. You have people in this country you have americans, and theyll say, Robert Mueller is going to ultimately get donald trump impeached. You have other people that say, donald trump did not do anything. You know, mueller this, mueller that. Do you know of any investigation in which they give out preliminary stuff halfway through . This is an ahistoric investigation. Weve never seen Something Like this. All sorts of legal reasons and investigative reasons, it doesnt make and for political reasons. Youre talking about the investigation in terms of right, the sanctity of the investigation. No, the criminal part and these indictments. Im talking about the political, and this is political. Theyre building a narrative. This is political, and at the end of the day, 99 days from today at this midterm, anderson, this is essentially Donald Trumps first reelect because he will be impeached by Jeremy Nadler out of the House Judiciary Committee if nancy pelosi is the speaker. Always good to have you on. Thank you very much. Joining us, bakari sellers, amanda carpenter, steve cortes, and rich lowry. Do you think theres a Scenario Under which donald trump jr. Didnt tell his father about this Trump Tower Meeting ahead of time . I think its unlikely, but i do think we need to focus in much more on don junior because we have to ask ourselves why did Rudy Giuliani go into a panic today . They are panicked about Michael Cohen may say about the Trump Tower Meeting. Theyve all denied up and down that donald trump had knowledge about it. Now Michael Cohen is saying he can place it there. This is a problem for don junior because he has testified to the senate Judiciary Committee four times under oath that he did not tell his father about the meeting. So thats a Perjury Problem right there, and i also took note in the interview this morning with alison on new day that giuliani placed rick gates at those meetings. His name came up in the conversation. Why is that important . Its important because rick gates is already a cooperating witness with the Mueller Investigation. He pled guilty to charges in early february. And if he can corroborate what Michael Cohen says, you have two people sticking to the same story against the multiple denials even under oath that team trump has given. Thats a huge problem for don junior. Steve, do you see this as a problem . Well, look, potentially. Well see. By the way, when i say a problem, i mean the way giuliani framed this today. I have tremendous admiration for him. I think he was the best mayor in american history. Do you think hes doing his client any favors . I dont know what he was doing this morning quite frankly. I followed this as quiclosely a anybody and he had me thoroughly confused. I think when he was talking about collusion, is it a crime or not, he almost appeared like a law professor. Thats not where we are in the realm of law. This is about a political Kangaroo Court that the swamp is operating and we need to approach it and fight it like a political fight. This is a political cage match. This isnt about criminal law. So i think to me, he confused the issue there, and we need to continue to telegraph what the president has for many, many months. No collusion. And if theres no collusion, then they dont have a political case to usurp what we did in 2016. Bakari, is that what it boils down to, to no collusion . Again, giuliani today seemed to move the goal post saying, well, collusion is not a crime. So indicating, well, if there was collusion, its not a crime. No, and i dont know what theoretical law is. Somebodys going to have to explain that to me. I will tell you there are two tracks the white house is on right now. One, you have the criminal issues that have arisen and will arise out of this investigation. Thats one. And, two, theyre doing something that the Clinton Administration also did, which is play impeachment politics. That is what you see when Rudy Giuliani comes on tv. You asked a question, is he failing his client . Rudy giuliani is proving to be an awful lawyer. I mean that is what were seeing. Collusion is not a crime. Thats a fact. As a democrat, as a lawyer, i can tell you that collusions not a crime. But mail fraud is. Federal elections violations is. Bank fraud, wire fraud, obstruction, perjury. The list goes on and on and on. Conspiracy. All of these things. The emails that were received by the Trump Campaign, the federal Election Commission views though as at least having a modicum of value. That means theres a conspiracy to do this and usurp those federal election laws, then youve committed a crime. And so when people say that this isnt a criminal issue, it is. But this is two tracks. Impeachment politics, which theyre doing a really good job of muddying the water, but there are issues out there for criminality that donald trump jr. Needs to be worried about, Jared Kushner needs to be worried about, and a lot of people who are in the orbit of the president of the United States. I remember one famous quote. We should not have a president of the United States who is under federal investigation. Well, you have a president and his family that are both under federal investigation. A white house official said today the president s press team is not coordinating with giuliani and what he says on behalf of the president s legal team. Is that a problem considering the gravity of some of his statements . Its actually were youd have to worry about the judgment of the White House Press team. Rudy is wild. Hes undisciplined. You have to understand he is not out there to make a classical legal case for the president. He is a public advocate. His job is to throw haymakers every day. We might gawk. We might scratch our heads. We might snicker, but hes succeeding. And the key mietric here is political. Are Robert Muellers numbers going up or are they going down . Theyre going down. This the first stage in a potential impeachment fight. The president s not going to be indicted. Hes not going to be tried. If this goes further, its going to be a political question over impeachment fought out in congress. But its been political from the very beginning. If it were criminal, criminal investigations, a crime is committed and then an investigation commences. This is the opposite. Thats not true. The crime that was committed is one at a time. This is an investigation in search of a crime, and that is totally thats not true. Unamerican and unjust. Yes, it is true. Amanda . I feel like we have to keep saying the basic thing, and thats the crime was that information was stolen from the clinton campaign. The question is did members of the Trump Campaign knowingly solicit that information for use in an election . And if that is true, that triggers all kinds of crimes. Were acting like this is just something the russians did. No, that is stolen information. Its like if someone stole a car and then you decided to take it for a joyride and say, oh, i didnt know it was stolen. You cant do that. The fbi or Justice Department would be more than empowered to investigate that. We dont need a special counsel. The reason the special counsel was triggered was for political reasons. Because he fired james comey, which may be an obstruction of justice case. I feel like im in the twilight zone. This whole Talking Point about this not being a valid investigation, this being a witch hunt, i mean lets talk about all the people who have been indicted. You ask about where was the crime that was committed . Lets talk about the people who pled guilty. You just cant say that and rick gates. And rick gates and papadopoulos. Paul manafort, i was with Paul Manafort backstage at the rnc because he ran your he ran your convention. He was your campaign manager. This isnt somebody who was just incidental. And the crimes hes accused of let him finish. Papadopoulos pled guilty. Let me just give you facts because youre in hyperbole land. You have 13 russian nationals who have been charged with hacking our elections. So you can say what you want to say, but these are all facts. This is a real investigation with real serious consequences. Weve got to take a break. Well have more with steve and rich and everybody. Well pick up the conversation, talk more about the president s new attacks on special counsel mueller. Later, a live report on progress on the fire lines in california as crews work around the clock under some of the worst conditions imaginable. The pictures incredible. Well be right back. Can weather any weather. Behr premium semitransparent stain and sealer, overall 1 rated, weathers it all. Find our most advanced formula exclusively at the home depot. Sometimes a day at the ballpark is more than just a day at the ballpark. Stadium pa all military members stand and be recognized. Sometimes fans cheer for those who wear a different uniform. No matter where or when you served, tmobile stands ready to serve you. Thats why were providing half off family lines to all military. Agent beekman was one step ahead of them. Dits stole the lockbox from the wells fargo stagecoach, because he hid his customers gold in a different box. And the bandits, well, they got rocks. We protected your money then and were dedicated to helping protect it today. Like alerting you to certain Card Activity we find suspicious. If its not your purchase, well help you resolve it. Its a new day at wells fargo. But its a lot like our first day. Were talking about Rudy Giulianis defense in the russia probe as well as the president s ongoing attacks on Robert Mueller. The President Tweeting is Robert Mueller ever going to release his conflicts of interest with respect to President Trump. I turned him down to head the fbi one day of appointment. The president now saying that mueller has conflicts of interest. Giuliani was press the on those conflicts today, wouldnt elaborate. I assume hes talking about conflicts about this golf membership stuff. Right. Giuliani said, i had a good idea what it is. It seems like the attempts to discredit mueller have gone from six to a 20 in a matter of days. Theyre using every means fair or foul to try to undermine the prosecutor, which is what happens in many highly politically charged cases across the United States. This is just very typical. Its not obstruction of justice. I Vice President known any president except for maybe george w. Bush in the fitzgerald case against scooter libby, who hasnt tried to undermine the prosecutor. So this is typical politics taken up to 11 because thats the level that donald trump is comfortable with on absolutely everything. Its just a version of what bill clinton did against ken starr and what, you know, george h. W. Bushs team did against his Special Prosecutor investigating irancontra. So this is typical washington politics. Its just where the volume and intensity is much hivgher than usual. The bottom line, the president himself still hasnt answered questions about the cohen trump, why the Trump Campaign lied about it, about the knowledge of the deal with ami and Karen Mcdougal, his response to the reporting that he knew about the Trump Tower Meeting in advance. I mean should he answer those questions himself at some point . I do. I think he should address those. I think it would put a lot of these questions to rest. For instance, you mentioned the ami deal. I agree with what amanda said before the break that, by the way, of Course Hacking into american citizens and organizations, dnc, podesta, those sorts of things should be investigated. If mueller were only doing that, that would be very proper. But instead hes looking into Nondisclosure Agreements to women from ten years ago. I mean how does that have anything to do with russia . Are we seeing Karen Mcdougal hacked the dnc . Did American Media hack podesta . Theres no relevance. Instead its an openended investigation into Donald Trumps life to try to find something. Why . To try to nullify our 2016 victory and to try To Delegitimize this president because his enemies in media and on the hill and even within his own Russian Court<\/a> about Hillary Clinton<\/a>. Sealed indictments have been released in the past during campaigns. As you recall in 2004, there was a State Senator<\/a> from illinois. He was a democrat. He was running against a republican who had a lot of money, and his so you dont see anything sleazy about the meeting . No. No. Do you think Rudy Giuliani<\/a> is doing a good job representing the president in the Public Sphere<\/a> . Yes. Because it seems to be hes made contradictly statements, confusing statements. Do you think thats part of his job to sort of muddy the waters and have people say, look, I Dont Know Whats Going On<\/a> and throw up their hands . So to muddy the waters, one, this is going to get this is ultimately going to be fought in the public, and its a political knife fight for the presidency. Were 99 days out from the midterms. It is essentially, as steve bannon has said, Donald Trumps<\/a> first reelect. Look, the democrats, they dont want to talk about impeachment. Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Republicans who would be very happy to see donald trump impeached in the senate hes laying the case out systematically. What do you see as his bias . Are you talking about that not bias. Heres what i see. Heres giuliani is now raising this specter of hes inherently biased. He should have recused himself because of some conflict between them i dont think its a conflict between donald trump and Robert Mueller<\/a> on the golf course. Thats a side issue. My issue is, is that we have 325 Million People<\/a> in this country, and i think we have a lot of lawyers in this country. I understand why you would want to get the former fbi director in general, objectively, to be the special counsel when youre investigating the president of the United States<\/a>. But Robert Mueller<\/a>s argument on obstruction, hes using james comey. If you look at the questions that have been leaked, even the in the new york times, right . It was reported in the new york times. If you look at the questions, the questions that involve\rmichael flynns firing, because that involves what james comey alleges that donald trump said to him. You look at all of them. Theyre all interrelated to james comey, and theyre also essentially the same way Michael Cohen<\/a> was essentially wiretapping donald trump, right . He has his iphone and hes copying it. These Contemporaneous Memos<\/a> that james comey say have probative value, which mueller clearly does. Then mueller has this relationship with james comey that i find to then investigate the firing of james comey, when you lobbied barack obama for him to be your successor, theres something theres a problem with that. It does seem, though, that we dont really know i mean its one thing for us to talk about the Mueller Investigation<\/a> because of little leaks, things that have leaked out or things that have been ascertained because of court documents. We really dont know the vast iceberg thats underneath the surface. And that goes exactly to why Robert Mueller<\/a>, to this point, hes spent a lot of money. Hes almost spent more money than ken starr has spent in all these years, can issue some kind\rof report so we can see the nature. As you know, for an investigation, its not gone on that long compared to the benghazi investigation, compared to irancontra. I agree exactly from that point. But we should at least get some idea, lets say, so that we know why . Because why give up information about an Ongoing Investigation<\/a> . About preliminary findings, about whether or not the Trump Campaign<\/a> had some kind of coordination with these emails. And putin did the hacking. I would like to see where this is going because what we dont know is what is going on. You have people in this country you have americans, and theyll say, Robert Mueller<\/a> is going to ultimately get donald trump impeached. You have other people that say, donald trump did not do anything. You know, mueller this, mueller that. Do you know of any investigation in which they give out preliminary stuff halfway through . This is an ahistoric investigation. Weve never seen Something Like<\/a> this. All sorts of legal reasons and investigative reasons, it doesnt make and for political reasons. Youre talking about the investigation in terms of \r right, the sanctity of the investigation. No, the criminal part and these indictments. Im talking about the political, and this is political. Theyre building a narrative. This is political, and at the end of the day, 99 days from today at this midterm, anderson, this is essentially Donald Trumps<\/a> first reelect because he will be impeached by Jeremy Nadler<\/a> out of the House Judiciary Committee<\/a> if nancy pelosi is the speaker. Always good to have you on. Thank you very much. Joining us, bakari sellers, amanda carpenter, steve cortes, and rich lowry. Do you think theres a Scenario Under<\/a> which donald trump jr. Didnt tell his father about this Trump Tower Meeting<\/a> ahead of time . I think its unlikely, but i do think we need to focus in much more on don junior because we have to ask ourselves why did Rudy Giuliani<\/a> go into a panic today . They are panicked about Michael Cohen<\/a> may say about the Trump Tower Meeting<\/a>. Theyve all denied up and down that donald trump had knowledge about it. Now Michael Cohen<\/a> is saying he can place it there. This is a problem for don junior because he has testified to the\rsenate Judiciary Committee<\/a> four times under oath that he did not tell his father about the meeting. So thats a Perjury Problem<\/a> right there, and i also took note in the interview this morning with alison on new day that giuliani placed rick gates at those meetings. His name came up in the conversation. Why is that important . Its important because rick gates is already a cooperating witness with the Mueller Investigation<\/a>. He pled guilty to charges in early february. And if he can corroborate what Michael Cohen<\/a> says, you have two people sticking to the same story against the multiple denials even under oath that team trump has given. Thats a huge problem for don junior. Steve, do you see this as a problem . Well, look, potentially. Well see. By the way, when i say a problem, i mean the way giuliani framed this today. I have tremendous admiration for him. I think he was the best mayor in american history. Do you think hes doing his client any favors . I dont know what he was doing this morning quite frankly. I followed this as quiclosely a\ranybody and he had me thoroughly confused. I think when he was talking about collusion, is it a crime or not, he almost appeared like a law professor. Thats not where we are in the realm of law. This is about a political Kangaroo Court<\/a> that the swamp is operating and we need to approach it and fight it like a political fight. This is a political cage match. This isnt about criminal law. So i think to me, he confused the issue there, and we need to continue to telegraph what the president has for many, many months. No collusion. And if theres no collusion, then they dont have a political case to usurp what we did in 2016. Bakari, is that what it boils down to, to no collusion . Again, giuliani today seemed to move the goal post saying, well, collusion is not a crime. So indicating, well, if there was collusion, its not a crime. No, and i dont know what theoretical law is. Somebodys going to have to explain that to me. I will tell you there are two tracks the white house is on right now. One, you have the criminal issues that have arisen and will\rarise out of this investigation. Thats one. And, two, theyre doing something that the Clinton Administration<\/a> also did, which is play impeachment politics. That is what you see when Rudy Giuliani<\/a> comes on tv. You asked a question, is he failing his client . Rudy giuliani is proving to be an awful lawyer. I mean that is what were seeing. Collusion is not a crime. Thats a fact. As a democrat, as a lawyer, i can tell you that collusions not a crime. But mail fraud is. Federal elections violations is. Bank fraud, wire fraud, obstruction, perjury. The list goes on and on and on. Conspiracy. All of these things. The emails that were received by the Trump Campaign<\/a>, the federal Election Commission<\/a> views though as at least having a modicum of value. That means theres a conspiracy to do this and usurp those federal election laws, then youve committed a crime. And so when people say that this isnt a criminal issue, it is. But this is two tracks. Impeachment politics, which theyre doing a really good job of muddying the water, but there are issues out there for criminality that donald trump\rjr. Needs to be worried about, Jared Kushner<\/a> needs to be worried about, and a lot of people who are in the orbit of the president of the United States<\/a>. I remember one famous quote. We should not have a president of the United States<\/a> who is under federal investigation. Well, you have a president and his family that are both under federal investigation. A white house official said today the president s press team is not coordinating with giuliani and what he says on behalf of the president s legal team. Is that a problem considering the gravity of some of his statements . Its actually were youd have to worry about the judgment of the White House Press<\/a> team. Rudy is wild. Hes undisciplined. You have to understand he is not out there to make a classical legal case for the president. He is a public advocate. His job is to throw haymakers every day. We might gawk. We might scratch our heads. We might snicker, but hes succeeding. And the key mietric here is political. Are Robert Mueller<\/a>s numbers going up or are they going down . Theyre going down. This the first stage in a\rpotential impeachment fight. The president s not going to be indicted. Hes not going to be tried. If this goes further, its going to be a political question over impeachment fought out in congress. But its been political from the very beginning. If it were criminal, criminal investigations, a crime is committed and then an investigation commences. This is the opposite. Thats not true. The crime that was committed is one at a time. This is an investigation in search of a crime, and that is totally thats not true. Unamerican and unjust. Yes, it is true. Amanda . I feel like we have to keep saying the basic thing, and thats the crime was that information was stolen from the clinton campaign. The question is did members of the Trump Campaign<\/a> knowingly solicit that information for use in an election . And if that is true, that triggers all kinds of crimes. Were acting like this is just something the russians did. No, that is stolen information. Its like if someone stole a car and then you decided to take it\rfor a joyride and say, oh, i didnt know it was stolen. You cant do that. The fbi or Justice Department<\/a> would be more than empowered to investigate that. We dont need a special counsel. The reason the special counsel was triggered was for political reasons. Because he fired james comey, which may be an obstruction of justice case. I feel like im in the twilight zone. This whole Talking Point<\/a> about this not being a valid investigation, this being a witch hunt, i mean lets talk about all the people who have been indicted. You ask about where was the crime that was committed . Lets talk about the people who pled guilty. You just cant say that and rick gates. And rick gates and papadopoulos. Paul manafort, i was with Paul Manafort<\/a> backstage at the rnc because he ran your he ran your convention. He was your campaign manager. This isnt somebody who was just incidental. And the crimes hes accused of let him finish. Papadopoulos pled guilty. Let me just give you facts because youre in hyperbole land. You have 13 russian nationals who have been charged with hacking our elections. So you can say what you want to say, but these are all facts. This is a real investigation with real serious consequences. Weve got to take a break. Well have more with steve and rich and everybody. Well pick up the conversation, talk more about the president s new attacks on special counsel mueller. Later, a live report on progress on the fire lines in california as crews work around the clock under some of the worst conditions imaginable. The pictures incredible. Well be right back. Can weather any weather. Behr premium semitransparent stain and sealer, overall 1 rated, weathers it all. Find our most advanced formula exclusively at the home depot. Sometimes a day at the ballpark\ris more than just a day at the ballpark. Stadium pa all military members stand and be recognized. Sometimes fans cheer for those who wear a different uniform. No matter where or when you served, tmobile stands ready to serve you. Thats why were providing half off family lines to all military. Agent beekman was one step ahead of them. Dits stole the lockbox from the wells fargo stagecoach, because he hid his customers gold in a different box. And the bandits, well, they got rocks. We protected your money then and were dedicated to helping protect it today. Like alerting you to certain Card Activity<\/a> we find suspicious. If its not your purchase, well help you resolve it. Its a new day at wells fargo. But its a lot like our first day. Were talking about Rudy Giuliani<\/a>s defense in the russia probe as well as the president s ongoing attacks on Robert Mueller<\/a>. The President Tweeting<\/a> is Robert Mueller<\/a> ever going to release his conflicts of interest with respect to President Trump<\/a>. I turned him down to head the fbi one day of appointment. The president now saying that mueller has conflicts of interest. Giuliani was press the on those conflicts today, wouldnt elaborate. I assume hes talking about conflicts about this golf membership stuff. Right. Giuliani said, i had a good idea what it is. It seems like the attempts to discredit mueller have gone from six to a 20 in a matter of days. Theyre using every means fair or foul to try to undermine the prosecutor, which is what happens in many highly politically charged cases across the United States<\/a>. This is just very typical. Its not obstruction of justice. I Vice President<\/a> known any president except for maybe george w. Bush in the fitzgerald case against scooter libby, who hasnt tried to undermine the prosecutor. So this is typical politics taken up to 11 because thats the level that donald trump is comfortable with on absolutely everything. Its just a version of what bill clinton did against ken starr and what, you know, george h. W. Bushs team did against his Special Prosecutor<\/a> investigating irancontra. So this is typical washington politics. Its just where the volume and intensity is much hivgher than usual. The bottom line, the president himself still hasnt answered questions about the cohen trump, why the Trump Campaign<\/a> lied about it, about the knowledge of the deal with ami and Karen Mcdougal<\/a>, his response to the reporting that he knew about the Trump Tower Meeting<\/a> in advance. I mean should he answer those questions himself at some point . I do. I think he should address those. I think it would put a lot of these questions to rest. For instance, you mentioned the ami deal. I agree with what amanda said before the break that, by the way, of Course Hacking<\/a> into american citizens and organizations, dnc, podesta, those sorts of things should be investigated. If mueller were only doing that, that would be very proper. But instead hes looking into Nondisclosure Agreements<\/a> to women from ten years ago. I mean how does that have anything to do with russia . Are we seeing Karen Mcdougal<\/a> hacked the dnc . Did American Media<\/a> hack podesta . Theres no relevance. Instead its an openended investigation into Donald Trumps<\/a> life to try to find something. Why . To try to nullify our 2016 victory and to try To Delegitimize<\/a> this president because his enemies in media and on the hill and even within his own Justice Department<\/a> have been hellbent since the day he won on trying To Delegitimize<\/a>. Questioning peoples motive and what they think about trump is not a sound political or legal defense. I do think we should Pay Attention<\/a> to one thing that did come out of the giuliani interview this morning that i thought was extremely curious. In addition to him saying that\rcollusion is not a crime, he oddly said that trump was not physically present at the Trump Tower Meeting<\/a>. To me, that may be where giuliani was trying to draw a very fine line that trump may walk. I certainly think that warrants some more followup on what ehe meant by saying he was not physically present. Its very important about this meeting, theres no indication that it was anything other than a nothingburger. The white whale in this case as you referred to before the break is some sort of conspiracy with the russians to commit a crime and hack these emails. So far we have zero, zero evidence of that. But the time line is certainly very suspicious, in which trump says he would preview a speech about Hillary Clinton<\/a> that didnt materialize. Then he continues to call on the russians to hack [ Overlapping Voices<\/a> ] one at a time. Nobody knows. Im just saying the time line is very suspicious. Thats why were in the middle of an investigation. Do you think he was openly sending signals to russian intelligence what to do with his\rspeeches . I mean he literally he asked the russians to hack herr ema her emails. [ Overlapping Voices<\/a> ] i didnt say it. He said it. Roll the tape. Why is it so hard . Bakari, go ahead. Why are people forgetting facts . The president of the United States<\/a> when he was a candidate said, hack the 30,000 emails. He literally said that. Not only that, but you have somebody who pled guilty. He was the former National Security<\/a> adviser. He was a campaign surrogate. Michael flynn pled guilty to lying. You started in whitewater with the clinton investigation. You ended with a blue dress. Thats how these investigations work. Its all fair game. All right. We got to end it there. Were seeing a different Rudy Giuliani<\/a> certainly than after 9 11 when he helped unite the country as americas mayor. Well trace his evolution, shall we say, when we continue. Yours like you mix and match your flavors. So you get what you want, without paying for things you dont. Number 6. I know. Where do i put it . In my belly. vo one family. Different unlimited plans. Starting at 40 per line on the network you deserve. Booking a flight doesnt have to be expensive. Just go to priceline. Its the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40 . Just tap and go. For the best savings on flights, go to priceline. So chances are, youve seen us around the house. Or. Around the yard. On the shelf. Or even. Out in the field. Your mom knew she could always count on us. And your grandma did too. Because for over 150 years, weve been right by your side. Advancing the health of the people, plants and pets you love. So, from all of us at bayer. Thank you for trusting in us. Then. And now. When you bundle your auto and hwith esurance, you could save with their single deductible. So if you confused the brake with the gas, or if your lamp post jumped out of nowhere, or if you forgot your bike was on the roof rack, you only pay one deductible instead of two for a claim involving both your auto and home. And when you save that much, its almost like it. Never even happened. Thats auto and Home Insurance<\/a> for the modern world. Esurance. An allstate company. Click or call. Gigspeed network and add voice and tv for 34. 90 more per month. Call or go online today. When you see President Trump<\/a>s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani<\/a> on television, you might be confused by what youre seeing and hearing because we havent always witnessed this sort of thing from a man once held as americas mayor. Randi kaye traces Rudy Giuliani<\/a>s evolution in the trump era. What happened to theres no black america, theres no white america, there is just america . What happened to it . Reporter Rudy Giuliani<\/a> at the 2016 Republican National<\/a> consequen convention. This was not the kid from brooklyn that america had come to know. Giuliani had earned an reputation for being truf on crime as a young u. S. Assistant attorney after landing a job as\rpresident reagans associate attorney general, he was ranked third at the department of justice. If the fbi tried to shove the whole matter, quote, under the rug. At 39, he was appointed u. S. Attorney for the Southern District<\/a> of new york, Zeroing In On Organized Crime<\/a> and white collar criminals. He famously prosecuted wall streets ivan boesky, and michael mill kin. After becoming mayor of New York City<\/a> in 1993, giuliani took credit for making manhattan safe again. Then came 9 11. All that we know right now is that two airplanes struck the two large towers of the world trade center. Reporter giuliani was the picture of calm and strength, quickly becoming americas mayor. Time magazine named him person of the year. Thats the kind of leadership we need in washington. Thats why im running for president. Reporter giuliani failed in his own 2008 president ial bid, but in 2016 he was back on the campaign trail, playing surrogate to donald trump. And he will be the leader of the change we need. Reporter but this was not the same Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. Hes always been aggressive and unapologetic, but now giuliani was peddling outlandish conspiracy theories. In one, he insisted that Hillary Clinton<\/a> had some mysterious illness. Go online and put down Hillary Clinton<\/a> illness. Take a look at the videos for yourself. Reporter giuliani mocked clintons Leadership Skills<\/a> too with this disturbing display. He didnt look like Hillary Clinton<\/a> with one of those long answ answers. Reporter what happened to the old rudy . It was such a headscratcher, it prompted this politico headline. Is Rudy Giuliani<\/a> losing his mind . At one point on the trail, he even seemed to forget who attacked the u. S. On 9 11. Under those eight years before obama came along, we didnt have any successful radical islamic terrorist attack\rin the United States<\/a>. They all started when clinton and obama got into office. Reporter and later after beyonce paid tribute to black lives matter at a concert i ran the largest and best Police Department<\/a> in the world, the New York City<\/a> Police Department<\/a>, and i saved more black lives than any of those people you saw onstage. Reporter whatever is behind this bizarre transformation, it seems to be just what donald trump wants. Vote for donald trump for a safer america and for an america headed in a different direction. Greatness reporter randi kaye, cnn, new york. For more on rudys transformation, i want to bring in cnn chief Political Correspondent<\/a> dana bash. Dana, how different is Rudy Giuliani<\/a> now from the person who was the mayor of new york, you know, who prosecuted the mob . Well, his persona couldnt be any more different, right . I mean he was, as randi was saying, americas mayor. He was time person of the year. He was beloved by the most\rliberal of democrats in New York City<\/a> and around the country and the most conservative of republicans. And since he joined the trump world, politically speaking, its been very different. But i think weve become more used to seeing Rudy Giuliani<\/a> in the sort of vein of donald trump as the ultimate protector, the ultimate loyalist, the ultimate defender. I mean he was pretty much the only guy who would go out and say anything good about donald trump after the access Hollywood Tape<\/a> came out at the end of the 2016 campaign. That tells you a lot. I was talking to Maggie Haberman<\/a> on friday night. She made the point that the people who get around President Trump<\/a> tend to take on his personality. Do you think part of that is what giuliani is doing . Maybe. And also he is not just sort of a casual friend or an acquaintance who just met donald trump. Theyve known each other quite well for decades. I mean if you think about the fact that giulianis children, particularly his son, andrew, is somebody who got to know donald trump as a young kid and now andrew is working in the Donald Trump White House<\/a> and actually gets along in a very personal way with the now president kind of explains a lot and tells you a lot. And, yeah, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> has kind of become a trump whisperer. He has kind of rare latitude to go out and say things that he believes that the president will be okay with. A lot of times he okays conversations that he has with reporters or interviews that he does. But sometimes my sense in ta talking to him is that it doesnt have to get that specific because he knows what the president wants. And what the president wants right now is what giuliani is doing. And thats an attack dog. And that is no holds barred. He wanted to change direction. He wanted to take the gloves off with his with how he approached the Mueller Investigation<\/a> and Robert Mueller<\/a> himself, and thats what hes got. Dana, thanks. Thank you. Coming up, the president again threatens a Government Shutdown<\/a> if he doesnt get what he wants from congress on immigration. Well hear from someone who worked in the Trump White House<\/a> until just ten days ago. Let your perfect drive come together at the Lincoln Summer Invitation<\/a> sales event. Get 0 apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus 1,000 bonus cash. With tripadvisor, finding your Perfect Hotel<\/a> at the lowest price. Is as easy as dates, deals, done \rsimply enter your destination and dates. And see all the hotels for your stay tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites. To show you the lowest prices. So you can get the best deal on the right hotel for you. Dates, deals, done tripadvisor. Visit tripadvisor. Com\rand pg e has been a partner helping us to achieve that. Weve helped the Marine Mammal<\/a> center go solar, install electric vehicle charging stations, and become more energy efficient. Pg e has allowed us to be the most Sustainable Organization<\/a> we can be. Any time you help a customer, its a really good feeling. Its especially so when its a customer thats doing such good and important work for the environment. Together, were building a better california. The president s repeating his threat that hed be willing to shut down the government if he doesnt get the wall he wants or funding for the wall and some other things on his immigration wish list. After tweeting about it over the weekend, the president said this today. If we dont get Border Security<\/a> after many, many years of talk within the United States<\/a>, i would have no problem doing a shutdown. Its time we had proper Border Security<\/a>. Were the laughingstock of the world. Joining me now is cnns newest political commentator mark short, former white house director of legislative affairs who left the white house less than two weeks ago. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. How likely do you think it is there actually would be a shutdown because right now the shutdown, unless theres a new Spending Bill<\/a>, would be before the midterm . Right. So i think in august the senates going to stay in session and complete more of the Appropriations Bills<\/a> but unlikely to finish all of them. Its been 22 years since Congress Actually<\/a> completed Appropriation Bills<\/a> on time. Were likely to face another continuing resolution in september. In order to get it past the midterms. Exactly and to complete the appropriations process. At that point theyll give him more time and ultimately hell probably have another december time frame. Last year the president signed an omnibus. He doesnt want to have another 1. 3 trillion Spending Bill<\/a> plopped on his desk. The chance of shutting down before the midterms seems highly unlike. It seems unlikely but i do think the president is sincere about pushing for his border wall funding. Its something the democrats supported in 2006 with the secure fence acts. Its just become more politicized now. I think if you look at the plan the president s put forward by the Career Officers<\/a> at customs and border patrol, in some cases these are fences that are seethrough, and in some cases its walls, but its what they say they need to secure the border. So its become a much more politicized issue when in fact\rthere are career professionals saying this is what we need. Democrats have supported it in the past they also want a larger deal on immigration issues. Yeah. And see this as a way to negotiate it. Right. You work so much with congress when you were at the white house. It does seem like i dont know if its increasingly or at a certain point it seems like theres a lot of republicans on capitol hill who just ignore the president s tweets or statements and just plan accordingly to what they think should be done. Do you see that happening because very quickly you had mcconnell coming out saying, look, theres not going to be a shutdown essentially. I think mcconnells had a meeting with the president this week so i think hes on pretty safe ground giving that direction. I think again the question is the timing of when such an occurrence might happen. Id say the biggest chance is when we started in the white house, i used to get calls from members of congress that would say, mark, its exciting. Were here. We have control of the house,\rthe senate, the white house. The agenda is great. Can you just get the president to turn off his phone . Over time what we now get is members of Congress Calling<\/a>, saying, hey, mark, can we get the president to tweet this . You say they ignore his tweets but in reality more often than not we have members of Congress Calling<\/a> and soliciting tweets on their behalf from the president of the United States<\/a>. Thats still not saying they love what hes tweeting out. He tweeted out that the threat from north korea was no longer. Theres no longer a Nuclear Threat<\/a> from north korea. Now we have reporting that just tonight in the washington post, north korea is actually moving forward on a weapons system. I think the president s pretty clear as to whats happening in north korea. I think hes got a great National Security<\/a> team and secretary of state pompeo, ambassador bolton, secretary mattis. Those are great people surrounding him on those decisions. But i think on the tweeting, anderson, he found a way to make sure he could communicate with the American People<\/a> directly. I think its been a very effective tool for him. I want to ask you about john kelly. There was an article in politico. Its the oneyear anniversary of john kelly taking over the office of chief of staff. Politico ran this article. The headline was how john kelly became chief in name only. Do you think thats fair . Has he been marginalized . I dont think its fair. I think its hard to find anyone who has sacrificed more for this country not just personally but with his family than john kelly. The man is an american hero. I think that he has helped provide a lot of order to the white house that was missing prior to john kellys arrival. Thats certainly true. He certainly seemed to get people in their lanes more, had less people going in and out of oval office. Does he still maintain the same level of oversight and power you think that he had eight months ago . I think that general kelly is revered within the white house. I think the reality is the president very much wants to be involved in all decisions. Hes not going to be delegating that to any chief of staff. But i do think that characterization in politico was unfair. Mark short, appreciate it. A deadly wildfire in Northern California<\/a> is so massive and hot, its creating its own weather system. Another hurdle in fighting it. Well get the latest from redding, california, ahead. Is and hotels. Com rewards me basically everywhere. So why am i sliding into this ski lodge with my mini horse . Because hotels. Com lets me do me. Sorry, the cold makes him a little horse. Hotels. Com. You do you and get rewarded. Let your perfect drive come together at the Lincoln Summer Invitation<\/a> sales event. Get 0 apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus 1,000 bonus cash. Crisp leaves of lettuce. Freshly made dressing. Clean food that looks this good. Delivered to your desk. Now delivering to home or office. Panera. Food as it should be. Panera. But behr premium stain y can weather any weather. Overall 1 rated, weathers it all. Find our most advanced formula exclusively at the home depot. Well, esurance makes it simple and affordable. In fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of 412. Thats auto and Home Insurance<\/a> for the modern world. Esurance. An allstate company. Click or call. Paying too much for insurance that isnt the right fit . Well, esurance makes finding the right coverage easy. In fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of 412. Thats auto and Home Insurance<\/a> for the modern world. Esurance. An allstate company. Click or call. Call or go online today. Its been one of the ten most destructive wildfires in california. The carr fire has killed six people, burned close to 100,000 acres. The Weather Forecast<\/a> is not looking good. Nick watt has more. Reporter one of the most destructive fires to ever burn in california. 150 square miles. An area the size of denver sc e scor scorched. 38,000 people forced to flee their homes and six lives lost. Among them two firefighters, one person who refused to evacuate and three members of a family getting ready to flee the flames. Ed bledsoe spoke to his wife and\rtheir Great Grandchildrens Moments Before The Fire<\/a> reached them. Its coming at me. The fires coming in the back door. Come on, grandpa. I said im right down the road. Emily said i love you, grandpa. And junior says i love you. Come and get us. Come and get us. I said im on my way. Reporter the fire is so large and temperatures so hot its creating its own weather system. It can be seen from space. Winds whipped towering flachls into that firefighters described as fire tornadoes. Fire doubled in size overnight over the weekend. The fire threatening and burning parts of redding, california, population more than 90,000. This fire is scary. This is something we havent seen before in the city. Reporter some were given 30 minutes to evacuate not knowing if theyd ever see their homes again. It looked like an atomic bomb\rafter the fact. We got a few pictures after the fact. Reporter for this family their worst fears realized. They lost everything. There are now scattered reports of looting in those abandoned areas. On the fire lines 17 helicopters, 300 engines and over 3,000 personnel continue to fight for control of this inferno. Nick watt joins us from redding. You said it doubled in night over the weekend. Wildfires seem to be more and more common now. Reporter they do. Listen, right now we have about 90 wildfires burning across this country around a million acres scorched. Of the 12 biggest wildfires ever in california since records began, seven of them have happened since just 2015. Now, the California Drought<\/a> probably had something to do with that. Theres still a lot of dead, dry\rvegetation around. After another california wildfire back in december, the governor said maybe this is now the new normal and he suggested maybe Climate Change<\/a> is exacerbating the conditions that lead to blazes like this. Anderson . Nick watt, appreciate it on the fire lines. Just ahead a new book on the horizon. A source saying it gives a Front Row Seat<\/a> to the white house. The author bob woodward. What we know about the book, next. Fruits and veggies are essential to your health,\rtry new one a day with natures medley. Booking a flight doesnt have to be expensive. Just go to priceline. Its the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40 . Just tap and go. For the best savings on flights, go to priceline. Hawaii is in the middle of the pacific ocean. Were the most isolated population on the planet. Hawaii is the first state in the u. S. To have 100 Renewable Energy<\/a> goal. Were a very small electric utility. But, if we dont make this move were going to have changes in our environment, and have a negative impact to hawaiis economy. Verizon provided us a solution using Smart Sensors<\/a> on their network that lets us collect near Real Time Data<\/a> on our power grid. colton this technology is helping us integrate rooftop solar, which is a very important element of getting us to our Renewable Energy<\/a> goals. shelee if we can create our own energy, we can take care of this beautiful place that i grew up in. He has dozens of white house officials and firsthand sources who have been in these meetings with donald trump. They all spoke to him. They were all recorded. Every interview was recorded, but dont make a mistake by that. Theyre not on the record. These are deep background. This is not a back of one deep throat. This is a book of dozens of deep throats, and they discussed everything from sort of explosive debates in the white house to really its described as harrowing. Is it a fear he found in the white house . I mean, i guess we dont know the answer. We will hear, but what were it was not just interviews. These sources gave him documents. He got memos. Notes. Files. Diaries. Notes im told in Donald Trumps<\/a>\rown hand. So im told its very authoritative and very well documented. Are some of the notes classified . Do you know . We dont know yet, but this is what i would say. In the past people have given bob woodward classified documents. I wouldnt be surprised if some of these were classified. Do we know that the fear stems from . Its actually a donald trump quote. The last time bob woodward interviewed him was in march, 2016. Donald trump said real power is i dont even want to use the word, fear. And thats where it comes from. Thats often leaders, you know, do they want to be loved or feared . Do they want to be respected . Right. But in his case, real power, fear. Wow. Well, i look forward to that. And thats coming out in the fall . Six weeks from almost today","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"https:\/\/vimarsana.com\/images\/vimarsana-bigimage.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240618T12:35:10+00:00"}