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Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Election season. I want to read you what he said. He said, when i first got involved, i would have told you notch thing would be the right legal strategy, but then hurt politically. Now im thinking the continuance of the investigation would actually help, because people are getting tired of it and the president needs something to energize his voters because the democrats look like theyre energized. Nothing would energize republicans more than, lets save the president. A pretty remarkable statement from somebody who, of course, is on the president s legal team, has a very distinct political background, though. And i just want to say that this is in keeping with a lot of political operatives on the republican side have said, that theyre looking for something to energized a not very energized republican base. On the other hand, Gloria Borger, who reported this story with me, notes that not all lawyers on his team feel that way. Theres a split, and many of them, i would even say most of them say, no, no, we have to do this fast and that would be a
that giuliani and other members of the legal team, they concede that theyre not in control here at all. Were in the dark about Whats Going On, really going on behind the scenes in the mueller investigation. They are too, even with this round of negotiations. And what i mean by that is, they have no choice but to go back and forth on these proposals and counter proposals, and they have been for a couple of months. Because their client, the president , insists over the advice of people around him, both politically and personally, that this is a terrible idea, he says, no, no, i want to testify. So, they have no choice. But on the other side of the negotiating table, they dont really know how far Robert Mueller is willing to go, whether he just wants to say forget it, write a report, or whether he is actually preparing a subpoena if he doesnt get what he wants in these negotiations. And they can see that the ball is very much in muellers court. Jay sekulow was on one of the sunday shows, and laying out the timeline for what if if there was a subpoena. Right. And how long it would drag out in the court. Months and months and months. Which is why the most people in the president s legal team and Gloria Borger has heard this from her sources especially, are banking on the fact that mueller wont want to subpoena. But its an educated guess. Its a gamble. Its a gamble in the truest sense of the word. They just dont really know. The other question, and we dont know the answer to this, and it sounds like they dont either, is, how much does mueller actually need the president to sit down and answer questions . And the answer to that is basically, how much does mueller know and where is he really going with this . And we just dont know thes. Do you do you have a sense of when i mean, i know you dont of one muellers team may response to this latest no, thats actually an interesting question, because the last time the trump team sent a counteroffer to mueller, he sat on it for weeks, anderson. And they were getting worried. They were perplexed inside the trump team about why it took so
long. And then my understanding is that when mueller finally responded, they shortened the number of questions, but not necessarily the themes. The themes were basically the same. And thats why they sent a counterproposal. So they dont know. But at if mueller really does want to wrap up this section of his investigation dealing with the president , before the midterms really kick in, and thats where the September 1st date comes in, because its right before labor day, then pree sum b presumably, it would have to end soon. But its also possible that he could just keep his cards close to his invest, not do anything until after the election, and then resume. I mean, there are so many options, and, again, were in the dark. Dana bash, thank you so much. I want to dig deeper on this and the Chris Collins charges. Before the broadcast i spoke with cnn legal analyst preet bharara, the former District Attorney for the Southern District of new york. I wonder what you make of the president s team continually talking about a perjury trap, that thats something they just
dont want their client exposed to any questions that would be a perjury trap. If you tell the truth, i dont understand how a perjury trap is a perjury trap. If you tell the truth and you have nothing to hide and youve told the truth before, so, youre not in danger of contradicting yourself, then theres no perjury and theres no trap. And this president has said over and over and over again he has done nothing wrong. I mean, what i think is really going on here is not that theres a perjury trap that someone is trying to set thats somehow inappropriate, but that the lawyers for donald trump, knowing his penchant for lying generally and specifically and on a daily basis, are concerned that he will exaggerate, fudge the facts, say things that are not correct, because thats who he is. And thats dangerous for him. Alan dershowitz was on the show recently and talked about this perjury trap. And he said, well, look, there could be two different sets of facts or two different opinions, and comey has testified one thing and the president says something else, and that muellers team decides to believe comeys side and that
becomes a perjury trap because theyre believing comeys version of facts as opposed to the president s. Yeah, i mean, i think what people are talking about when theyre talking about Sharp Practice by a prosecutor, which i dont think these folks would engage in, is that youre engaging in a game of gotcha. Youre not asking basic questions and trying to get to the truth, but youre trying to find some sliver of inconsistency between something that someone said and someone else said, sort of like what youre describing. And then bring the whole weight of the government down on you for making a false statement in that context. I dont think the mueller team operates that way. I think for them, to take some action based on a false statement in connection with an interview, it would have to be really important, it would have to be really material and it would have to be very clear. Giuliani says this needs to be wrapped up by September 1st. Does he initially said it was going to be wrapped up in a week. Right. Well, they talked about after thanksgiving a long time ago. Does that timeline make any sense to you . I mean, do you see mueller i mean, with that timeline, Theres No Way Mueller would be
able to try to go for to subpoena the president. Yeah, i dont think its going to end, overall, its not going to end. We still have one Manafort Trial going on as we speak. We have another Manafort Trial that is already scheduled to go after labor day in the district of columbia. And i have a sense, you know, not based on any inside knowledge, that a sense that there are other shoes to drop, that there are going to be other people charged. As long as the mueller team is continuing to look at things and continuing to investigate things that are appropriate within their ambit, there is no reason to have an artificial deadline with respect to obstruction against the president by labor day. I mean, look, they may well be done or close to being done, which is why theyre negotiating a potential conversation with the president , and then all power to them and maybe theyll end it, but i dont think theres an artificial i dont think theyre going to do something on the eve of the election, so, if they dont do something by the end of august as it relates to the president , then i think its reasonable to think youre not going to see anything until november, december or next year. How vital do you think it is
to actually have the president to sit down . I dont know that its that vital. One of the things that prosecutors like to do, contrary to popular belief, to get it right and to get the truth, and to give the person youre investigating, the potential subject, the opportunity to explain away things that the prosecutors might think are nefarious. Why did you fire james comey . Why did you make this statement on a particular date . Why did your lawyers say you hadnt dictated the statement . When you had, in fact, dictated the statement . Sometimes you learn things that are actually helpful to the defense or the target or the subject when you engage in that kind of inquiry. On the other hand, it is also helpful, sometimes, to get peoples story because theyll say things that might incriminate them. And overall, its generally helpful to check every box and to dot, you know, every i. And so you want to do the interview. At the end of the day, if they have Chris Collins just got indicted. He was spoken to by the fbi, and that ended up becoming one of the charges in the indictment. Lets talk about the collins case. I mean, what i i just dont
understand, why would he not i mean, it just seems such an obvious way to get caught. Why the prisons are full of people who are dumb, who are educated and powerful but also engaged in dumb behavior with respect to not being able to cover up their crimes. We prosecuted a lot of Insider Trading cases when i was prosecutor. But when you were prosecuting, do most of the people just think, well, nobodys really watching this kind of stuff . I think some people think that. Some people we prosecuted had what are called burner phones. Theyre not traceable back to themselves. And they engaged in their unlawful communication of giving Insider Information on those phones that couldnt be traced. But also the charges are lying to investigators about it. I mean, its one thing to that is also dumb. Right. When you know that the investigators are going to be able to figure it out. Maybe he figured the lies about whether or not he told his son about the drug trial, and he is thinking to himself, well, my sons not going to give me up. And maybe his son did. Maybe his son didnt. But there are other people who can be told things contemporaneously by the son and there are other ways to infer what the conversation was about. So it wasnt smart, and the prosecutors are going have a field day because of it. Preet bharara, thanks very much. Thanks. It was quite a day in washington. Beyond the mueller news and the Chris Collins bombshell, another dramatic day for the governments star witness against Paul Manafort. Well tell you what rick gates said on the stand, plus what Paul ManafortsBusiness Partner has to say. Roger stone joins us as well. And later, as california faces 17 fires, well talk with the man in charge of the fight. How do you win at business . Stay at la quinta. Where were changing with stylish makeovers. Then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. Bravo, tall meeting man. Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com sharper vision, without limits. Days that go from sun up to sun down. A whole world in all its beauty. Three Innovative Technologies for our ultimate in vision, clarity, and protection. Together in a single lens. Essilor ultimate lens package. Purchase the Essilor Ultimate Lens Packageand get a second pair of qualifying lenses free. Essilor. Better sight. Better life. Its so hard to believe but its all coming back me. Baby, baby, baby. All you can eat is back, baby. Applebees. With advil liquigels, what bad shoulder . What headache . Advil is relief thats fast strength that lasts youll ask. What pain . With advil liquigels. Ancestrydna can pinpoint where your ancestors are from. And the paths they took, to a new home. Could their journey inspire yours . Order your kit at ancestrydna. Com. As news of the Securities Fraud charges against congressman Chris Collins rocked the capitol, there was seismic activity once again from just down the potomac. The trial of Paul Manafort heating up once more as the prosecution asked a few last questions of mr. Manaforts former righthand man. In the moment well talk to manaforts original righthand man roger stone. First, Shimon Prokupecz joins us
now from the courthouse in al sand dree ya, alexandria, virginia. Shimon, what more did gates talk about on the stand today . What more was he asked about . Well, it was a short day here for rick gates. The defense continued to ask questions, really try and strike every bit that they can at his credibility, bringing up these affairs. At one point, suggesting in front of the jury that rick gates had admitted to having at least four affairs. The judge did not allow rick gates to answer that question. But weve learned that rick gates told the Special Counsel when he initially started cooperating with investigators that he had cheated on his wife perhaps several times. He did, as he has testified, had an affair. But the point of all of this, anderson, is the Defense Attorneys here want to strike at his credibility, and they want to use these affairs to show, obviously, to poke holes at his credibility. They say that he led this secret life, at one point, stealing money from Paul Manafort to try
and fuel the secret life, these affairs, and the cheating on his wife. How did the fbi lay out the financial details of manaforts money trail . Right. That was later this afternoon. Today, when the fbi economics their accountant and analyst took the stand, kind of dry, painstaking detail, using charts at one point, to show how Paul Manafort moved money, how he had overseas accounts, how the fbi was able to track some of these accounts through wire transactions. At one point, they even subpo a subpoenaed information from a bank in the uk. They also showed how they were able to track some of the purchases that weve all been talking about, it was the ostrich jacket and also the Snakeskin Jacket that Paul Manafort purchased. The fbi here today showing really in painstaking detail, going over every inch of Paul Manaforts finances. Obviously an important part of this case for the prosecution,
anderson. All right. Shimon prokupecz, thank you very much. Perspective now from someone who it is fair to mention may also be on Robert Muellers radar. Right now, joining us primarily as a member of the Consulting Firm black, manafort and stone, the manafort being paul, the stone being roger. Its great to have you on again. So roger, as Paul Manaforts trial unfolds, im just wondering how do you think its looking for him at this point . Do you think he is in real trouble here . First of all, with all due respect, im not sure i was ever his righthand man. We were certainly partners, and he is a boyhood friend. Whats amazing to me is that he got to trial at all given the enormous pressure put on him by the Special Counsel to plead guilty. And im still perplexed as to why he has not raised the question of whether he was under illegal fisa surveillance in this trial and in the upcoming trial. Sharyl attkisson, the new york times, many others have reported that he was, but the
government does not agree to that in discovery, and manaforts team have not raised it. Beyond that, im not following every every word of the trial, but the drama is obvious, and i think the perhaps the mistake that people are looking at is that they are viewing rick gates and Paul Manafort monolithically and i think that thats an error in trying to figure out what has happened here. How do you mean monolithically . Obviously rick gates was a close associate of him and seemed to be deeply involved in setting up these overseas Bank Accounts and seems to have wide knowledge. Well, theres no question theres no question that look, i dont know mr. Gates very well, but i know a great deal about him. And theres no question that he was handling the logistics of the business he was doing with Paul Manafort. But because of manaforts economic model, i think that
gates was squeezed financially, and i think he had clients of his own and Business Activities of his own. I assume that he has told the government about this, but i dont know what he has disclosed to them. When he said that he had embezzled 400,000, i had heard that numbers were much larger than that. So i think he has to be viewed not as a joined to manafort at the hip, but with his own agenda and his own issues. He certainly has his own agenda, but one cant deny his inner knowledge of manaforts affairs, correct . I believe that to be true. But at the same time, what does manafort know about gates affairs . Remember, this investigation is supposed to be about russian collusion, yet none of the charges against manafort or gates, for that matter, thus far, regard that particular
issue. The investigation, though, is not just about russian collusion or allegations of russian collusion. Its also about any involvement in russia attempting to meddle or attack the United States during the 2016 ele