Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. He said that initially. They later reversed themselves and flynn was indicted for making a false statement to an fbi agent. But as point of fact, judge, hes told them things that were not true and things that he should have known and recollected in realtime. Right. Maybe he did. And maybe he did it because he thought there was some impropriety about having the conversation with kislyak. Thats why sally yates, then at the a. G. s office, then went to don mcgahn and said you better figure out Whats Going On with this. I dont think there was any impropriety in that conversation at all. In fact i think flynn would have been committing malpractice if he had not had the conversation with kislyak. He is the guy who was going to be the National Security then why did he lie about it . Beats me. Thats a good question, no . Its an excellent question, but i dont know the extent to which he lied, whether he said the conversation never took place or what. Thats what the president said, that it didnt happen. Comey apparently may very well have had a memo to the file saying it happened. People write memos to the file to serve their own interest. Comey is not above that. Isnt what theyre worried about is putting someone we know who has a problem with abusing the truth, who has a problem with freelancing, who has a problem with sticking to what he is told to do and putting him across from people who would be uniquely motivated to point that out . I think what theyre concerned about is the ultimate fact here, which is that this is not going to end in a trial. Its not going to end in charges. Its going to end in the House Of Representatives with an argument in favor or against impeachment. And the only thing he would be doing is providing grift for that particular mill. Theres no legitimate criminal investigation going on here. Well, thats an opinion. But the idea that he does nothing but add grift to the mill, i would suggest no. There is this legitimate investigation of people other than him, but theres no possibility of bringing a charge against him. There is no possibility because the doj guidance. It doesnt mean that Muellers Main Probe Responsibility is to get the facts and find out what happened. The president s part of that. And you say, well, why would he do it except to give grift to that mill, that mill being something nefarious in your perspective. Im saying no, not nefarious. Its for inclusion in a report to the house. Right. That can then be used to consider impeachment. Why would the president walk into that . Because of the truth. He says he wants to Tell The Truth. If he Doesnt Sit Down with mueller and we have some type of objective body, which i hold out hope Thats What Mueller is. Everybody loved him until this probe didnt start going the way the president likes. Now all of a sudden hes suspect. But if he Doesnt Sit Down, it will always be an open question of whether or not he was hiding anything from the American People. Fair point . Fair point. But i would sitting in the president s place, i would rather have an open question than have somebody who went to Hillary Clintons party and cried when she lost make the
decision about whether im telling the truth or not. Thats highly prejudicial, though. If you were going to say that he were lying even if its just in a report, youve got a standard of proof. Thats a crime, perjury. Its not just we believe comey, we dont like you, so were going to believe him and not you. You give reasons why, but ultimately its a Credibility Decision, and i wouldnt want the Credibility Decision made by the people who are staffing that investigation. You dont have any concerns if you were representing the president that he would be able to Tell The Truth in the chair . I would have his concerns about his tendency, as you put it, to improvise. Of course i would have concerns about that. Im rational. Judge, thank you for your perspective. As we go through this process, i will call on you time and time again. Love to come back. All right. In a new attempt to discredit mueller, the president says study the late joe mccarthy. Does he really want to be making comparisons to mccarthy now . The truth is the truth, something that we actually have to say these days. Next. What do you mean its not working out, craig . I just introduced you to my parents. Psst craig and sheila broke up. What, really . Craig and shelia broke up . No, craig . What happened . I dont know. Is she okay . Craig and sheila broke up craig and sheila . As long as Office Gossip travels fast, you can count on geico saving folks money. Craig and sheila broke up what . Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Sharper vision, without limits. Days that go from sun up to sun down. A whole world in all its beauty. Three Innovative Technologies for our ultimate in vision, clarity, and protection. Together in a single lens. Essilor ultimate lens package. Purchase the Essilor Ultimate Lens Package and get a second pair of qualifying lenses free. Essilor. Better sight. Better life. Have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. Alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems. These may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. Some serious allergic reactions can occur. Do not take stelara® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. Man are you fed up with crohns symptoms following you . Talk to your doctor today, and learn how janssen can help you explore cost support options. Remission can start with stelara®. Let your perfect drive come together during the final days of the Lincoln Summer Invitation event get 0 apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus One Thousand Dollars bonus cash. To borrow a phrase from the bard, shakespeare, trump doth tweet too much. This latest set of Salvos Against Mueller is the best proof yet that trump really thinks he has something to worry about. Here is our latest raft of proof. 14 tweets. Clearly these tweets were not guided by any steady hand. Why do i say that . Well, no one caught the repeated misspellings of the word counsel, and no one helped him avoid selfharm. The proof of that, mccarthyism at its worst, he wrote. Right . Heres the tweet. Study the late Joseph Mccarthy because were now in a period with mueller and his gang that make Joseph Mccarthy look like a baby. Rigged witch hunt. If anyone in politics can claim the mantle of mccarthyism, it is president trump. Let us remind ourselves with the men side by side, senator mccarthy was a demagogue. He relied on conspiracy theories
and xenophobia to motivate baseless allegations and generate fear. Sound familiar . Not to mention, do you know who mccarthys lawyer was . Roy cohn. You know whose personal lawyer he became . Donald trumps. Now, some more proof. Just listen to how desperate the efforts are. It reminds me of groucho marx. Who are you going to believe, me or your lyin eyes . Listen to trump attorney Rudy Giuliani this weekend on meet the press. Im not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury. When you tell me he should testify because hes going to Tell The Truth and he shouldnt worry, thats so silly because its somebodys version of the truth, not the truth. He didnt have a conversation truth is truth. I dont mean to go like no, it isnt truth. Truth isnt truth. So what was that . Was that a oneoff, a misstatement, or is it part of a pattern of distortion and fabrication . Listen to this. Youre saying its a falsehood, and theyre giving sean spicer, our press secretary gave alternative facts. In a situation like this, you have, over time, facts develop. What youre seeing and what youre reading is not whats happening. If factcounting is anything, weve never had any anybody with the level of mendacity that he has, not even close. Its in the eye of the beholder. No, facts are not in the eye of the beholder. Yes, it is. I said it then. Ill say it again. Facts are not in the eye of the beholder. The truth is the truth. Each one of those, you take them in isolation, and could you explain them as something kind of innocent . Yes, of course you could. I could do that very easily. But taken together, what do we see . The same mistake keeps being made. What does that mean . Its not a mistake. Its part of a narrative to put out there, and its one of deception. The president saying whats being seen and written about is not whats happening. Listen. It all matters. There is no other reality than the one that we know because of what we can show. And if trump really wants to put an end to this, he can do it very easily. He could do it by demanding of himself what he has always demanded of others. Sit down and state your case. No hiding. No pleading the fifth. In other words, lets get after it. All right. The president now says he can run the Mueller Investigation. Can he . And what if he tried . What is behind the truth in this situation . Is it the real truth or orwellian poppycock . That is the making of a great debate, next. I said it, poppycock. When i received the diagnoses,
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certainly trumps lawyers have taken and will continue. And i think bakari alluded to it. If i were on the trump legal team, id be advising him not to sit down with mueller for both of the reasons you started out with, chris. Again, theyre not exclusive of each other. And Rudy Giuliani very inartfully talked about who do you believe . In his example, is it comeys truth, or it trumps truth . And its only one or the other. And you still have to prove it though, ken. You are correct. You are correct that there is an objective truth. Something happened, and the American People as a general matter would like to know what those things are when it relates to their government. But lets not forget the people decide whos telling the truth. We dont get the Gods Eye View of who is telling the truth. Well, thats not always true. Thats not always true. Sometimes its beyond a reasonable doubt, which by the way is a damn high standard. But, bakari, sometimes you will say one thing. I say another. One of us is right, and one of us is wrong. Yeah, i dont understand where all of a sudden we dont know the definition of truth anymore. I think that ken is not quite portraying what this investigation actually is, and i think Rudy Giuliani, although hes really shown himself to be inartful and a poorly disciplined attorney who has no idea what the facts of his clients case are, what were seeing right now is that this president , not only does he have trouble telling the truth, but he has trouble defining what truth is. I mean we live in a realm where were talking about alternative facts. But in this case its not just comey versus trump. I think thats where ken and the president and rudy get it wrong. Its not just comey versus trump. Its the words of cohen. Its the words of mcgahn. Its these investigators who
have been out doing their Due Diligence for over a year now. So its not just one statement. Theyre taking a totality of statements, putting them together, and if five people say one thing, odds are that is the truth versus donald trump. You would take those five. So its not just comey saying something, but its his president ial attorney saying those things. Its cohen saying those things when he has an opportunity to sit down with the investigators. Its not one or the other. We dont have to make that choice. And truth is truth. I dont understand why this is such a difficult task that were putting ourself under. Ken, one of the things id love your take on is to the extent that this is true, okay, that the Mueller Probe made it somewhat clear to trumps guys, the legal team, that hes not a subject of the investigation, hes not a target of the investigation, theyve interviewed dozens and dozens of people as far as we know. Only a handful have they wound up catching lying in things because i think thats an important context for people because, you know, the trump team is making the supposition that anybody who goes in there, theyre looking to get you and theyre going to trip you up on your own words. Theyve had dozens and dozens go in and didnt get charged with perjury. The idea if he goes in there, theyre going to get him, thats more on him than it is on them. Fair point . Yeah, i dont think the assumption is if he goes in there, theyre going to get him. Thats all they say all the time, ken. Certainly if youre a lawyer advising the president , your job is playing defense, frankly, and that would be, as i said earlier that would be my concern if i was advising the president. And, you know, you look at michael flynn. I think there are serious questions about whether he actually lied to the fbi. As we heard earlier in your show then why did he take the plea . For the same reasons that people like pat nolan and many others take a plea is they dont want to confront the potential alternative because the truth may not come out, and they know
it. Wait, i dont understand. Lets take one more bead on that. Sure. And they cut their losses. I get that argument in certainly criminal situations where you know theyre going to get you on something so you try and cut yourself a good deal. But the argument keeps being made on behalf of michael flynn, general flynn, that, you know what, he did nothing inappropriate. He should hav