Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20200218 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 February 18, 2020

Those actions, the damage theyve done to the department of justices reputation for integrity and the rule of law, require mr. Barr to resign. Now, that is unprecedented. And so is this. Usa today reporting that a National Association of federal judges has called an emergency meeting for tomorrow to address growing concerns about intervention by the Justice Department and the president in politically sensitive cases. All of this in the wake of the attorney generals intervention after the president tweeted about it in the sentencing of the president s friend and fixer, roger stone. As you know, four federal prosecutors quit the case in protest. One quit his job. The president congratulated attorney general barr, who maintains his dwasimpartiality, despite recent reporting that hes also now revisiting negotiations of some of the president s perceived enemies. Can now ensure to the American Public that the Justice Department is not going to be used as a weapon in a highly charged political season . Absolutely. And that, as you know, pierre, one of my passions is the feeling that we have to ensure that the department of justice is to the used as a political football. And one of the things im distressed about is the increasing use of the criminal process to achieve political results. And i want to, i want to get away from that. Keeping em honest, theres no evidence of that and plenty of contrary, enough to concern 2,000 plus former Justice Department officials. Enough to prompt those federal judges to call an emergency meeting. Not enough, of course, for john bolton, who is also an attorney to speak candid. He actually teased chapter 14 of his book today, but didnt actually say anything of substance. How, for every john bolton, theres a john eyer. He writes that the fundamental problem is that he does not believe in the central tenet of our system of government, that no Single Person is above the law. He spoke tonight with our wolf blitzer. Youve known bill barr for about 40 years. I have. And youre calling him unamerican. Youre saying, no one can subvert. It is not too strong to say that bill barr is unamerican. Strong words. Has he changed over these 40 years or what . I dont know that hes changed, because hes always had a very strong view that the executive ought to have a great deal of power. Ive never known quite how far it would go. And there was never nip reason to test it, because when he was attorney general under george h. W. Bush, george h. W. Bush had no interest in being an autocrat. So now were faced with the situation where bill barr has won the job of attorney general around president who apparently does want to be an autocrat. A moderate voice making what would be absent any evidence a pretty extreme claim. But its not like theres a shortage of evidence as to how the president sees his role. Hes made no secret of it. Hes said, as youll recall, that article ii of the constitution gives him power to do, quote, whatever i want as president. As to what he wants to see in the attorney general, hes also talked about that. Hep wants someone like roy cohn, his former mentor and personal fixer, something he did not get in the last attorney general, Jeff Sessions, who recused himself from the russia investigation. So Jeff Sessions takes the job, gets into the job, recuses himself. I then have which, frankly, i think is very unfair to the president. How do you take a job and then recuse yourself . If he would have recused himself before the job, i would have said, thanks, jeff, but i cant you know, im not going to take it. Its extremely unfair, and thats a mild word, to the president. He framed what sessions did as being unfair to the president. In private, he was more explicit, saying this about him personally. Reading now from the mueller report, quote, the president opened the conversation by saying, i dont have a lawyer. The president expressed anger about the recusal and brought up roy cohn, stating that he wished cohn was his attorney. That was nearly two years ago. Long before the Senate Republicans voted to essentially give him a blank check with their votes to acquit him. He wanted someone to do his bidding. And now, he apparently has what he wants. Joining us is cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, elie honig, who signed this protest statement. Also former Trump White House lawyer, jim schultz. Ellie, you say you didnt sign this letter lightly. What, for you, made you sign it . Yeah, anderson. I dont sign letters like this light. So the best part about being a p. All youre about is facts, the law, and doing whats right. And politics play no part of that. And that to me is the central tenant about the department of justice. Its all about two things, having your credibility and being independent. And i think over the last year, when hes been in office, bull barr has done serious irreparable damage to those two things. The credibility and the independence of himself and the Justice Department. Hes gone too far. Justice Department Needs to stand apart and be independent. Thats why i signed the letter. Jim, obviously, very clearly, you did not sign the letter. I want to make sure that people know that. But it was signed by department of justice officials who have worked you arent both democratic and republican administrations. And they wrote in part, governments that use the enormous power of Law Enforcement to punish their enemies or reward their allies are not constitutional republics, they are autocracies. What do you think are wrong about what these officials are saying . First off, i think they had a tremendous rush to judgment on that. And the fact that bill barr immediately said, yeah, ill go and talk before congress on this issue tells you all you need to know. And in this instance, the u. S. Attorney came to bill barr. It was not the other way around, according to the reports of the Justice Department. And also, the supervisors, the folks that are supervisors in the u. S. Attorneys office called into question the decisions that were made by the line prosecutors in that case. So lets not be lost on that. And secondly, you know, we keep saying, well, these folks are not partisan, the one Justice Department official who happened to leave the office was an obama associate council to the president and held the same job that i held with President Trump. And those are inherently partisan positions. Thats not to say the politics factored into his decision making, but for everyone to say that, you know, folks dont have a partisan eye on things, or the people that are leaving were career prosecutors, theyre absolutely independent. Just isnt the case. I mean, you had power out the other day, writing that New York Times article. And power happened to be an Obama White House council. So you have a lot of folks that have a partisan agenda pushing this thing out, before the facts have really, have really been discovered, as it relates to what happened. And barr is vehement about stating that, you know, that decision was made long before any of the tweets, long before and before the president made my statements on this matter. He also came out and said, look, youre not helping me out here when you make comments like that, mr. President. And he said that publicly, because, you know, he has a job to do. And he has to have you know, he has to have the trust in the folks that are working below him. Soy really think this is a jump to judgment on bill barr, no question. So, ellie, what about that . Yeah, anderson, first of all, this is not 2000 democrats who signed this letter. This is 2000 former prosecutors who are allying with both parties win served more time under republican than democrat. This is no rush to democrat. Are you a republican or you a democrat . Let him finish. Bill barr has been in office for a full year. Lets look at the track record here. First of all, he misstated Robert Muellers finding. He tried to keep the whistleblowers statements from going to congress, even though the law is very clear that it had to go to congress. He refused to even open an investigation of the ukraine matter, when any prosecutor worth his salt would at least open an investigation and take a look. And out of the 60,000plus cases that the Justice Department does every year, what two cases has william barr and the higher echelons of the Justice Department come into and overruled the trial prosecutors, the line prosecutors . Michael flynn and roger stone. What do those two people have in common . Theyre both close political allies of donald trump. You cant ignore this pattern. Its not all about roger stone. Roger stone was the straw that broke the back, but its been a full year of abuse from william barr. Juim, what about that . If there are thousands of prosecutions, isnt it a little suspect that barr weighs in on look, its not uncommon when you have a highprofile criminal matter such as this that involve highprofile issues, political issues, its frequent do you know any other cases hes weighed in on to up to the Justice Department, it happens time and time again in prior administrations. And ellie will tell you, thats absolutely the case. In this instance, the fact that the u. S. Attorney, according to Justice Department reports, reached up, as it relates to this case, that tells you all but do you know of any other cases that barr has weighed in on this . That lying prosecutors who were supervisors lying prosecutors who were supervisors disagreed with the decision of the folks on the case, that happened to be pretty junior lawyers as it relates to that office. Okay, so, anderson but do you know of any other specific examples that barr has reversed so anderson, im having a hard time im having a hard time hearing you, but ill finish with this point. So and im not ignoring you, i just cant hear you very well. Okay. The issue here is, not only do we have young prosecutors in this case, but what happens is prosecutors sometimes grip very tight to their cases. Right . They get invested in cases. Lawyers do it. Prosecutors do it. And thats why theres this system where you go up the chain in order to get approvals as you move through a case when youre either going to resolve a case or bring a case. Yep, so anderson, whats so unusual actually ellie, very quickly. Ive got to whats so unusual about this case is that you have donald trump openly tweeting and urging the Justice Department to get involved and bill barr dutifully falls in line every time. Thats just not going to happen. Jim, im sorry about the sound problems on my end. Jim schultz, thanks very much. Cup neoming up next, the president s reaction to all of the and reporting about his state of mind,ranoia in the wakf impeachment. Later, problematic works from Michael Bloombergs past. What he said and how it may affect his campaign today. My grandfather had an amazing life, but ancestry showed me so much more than i could have imagined. 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Were talking tonight about this remark pbl bipartisan protest as William Barrs conduct as attorney general and the growing concern that the president may be weaponizing the Justice Department. Were going to talk about how its all being received. I want to check in with Cnns Jim Acosta at the white house. So how is the president reacting to this criticism . Not just of the attorney general, but the way that the president fees commandeering the Justice Department to protect his interests . Yeah, anderson, we can tell you that i talked to a white house official earlier this evening, who said, the president still has confidence in the attorney general and that his mind, when it comes to bill barr has not changed. He still is fully confident in this attorney general and why not . Hes essentially doing what the president wants for the most part, but i will tell you, anderson, going back to that letter signed by more than 2,000 veteran officials of this Justice Department, if you go to the bottom of that letter, it encourages people inside the Justice Department, if they see something, say something. Basically urging them to engage in some of the same whist whistleblowing that got under the president s skin in the ukraine inquiry. Thats something thats not going to sit well with the president. But so far, no what i think whatsoever on how this president views the attorney general. You know, hope hicks coming back to the white house, the president leaning on other kind of longtime aides, people who were there early on during the campaign or early on who had left and are now coming back, is there a sense that the president is kind of hunkering down with the people he considers most loyal before the Campaign Even gets more heated . There was a times piece kind of alluding to that. Absolutely, anderson. Talking to my sources, i will tell you, i talked to a trump adviser earlier this evening who said the president is bringing back, make no question about it, some of his most trusted aides, and hope hicks would be near the top of that list if not at the top of the list. Shes been almost like a Family Member to this president over the last several years. And and i will tell you, anderson, i talked to an aide of the president late last week and asked whether or not this president is essentially going after his enemies. And this aide responded to me, would that surprise you . So i think theres an acknowledgement inside the president s own team that he is lashing out right now at people that he perceives to be his enemies. Now, one of the other things that we should point out moving forward, i mean, the president , you dont have to talk to anonymous officials about this. The president has been saying this out loud as he was telling Geraldo Rivera in that interview last week, he is seriously considering the idea of cutting aides out of his foreign leader calls, the same kind of scenario that got him into trouble with the leader of ukraine. There were aides listening into that phone call that didnt like who didnt like what the president was saying, and then reported it and essentially that is what spiralled into the impeachment inquiry. And if the president considers something along those lines, that would once again, anderson, shatter one of those washington enormouses, trusted National Security officials on the line with the president when hes on the line with a head of state. It would really change a lot over here at the white house, anderson. Jim acosta, with thanks very much. With all of this playing out, theres reporting from the New York Times that adds to jims insights into the president s state of mind and the atmosphere inside the white house since the impeachment. In a word, paranoid. In a phrase according to the times sourcing, turning that paranoia into u. S. Policy. I want to get some perspective from someone who knows the president well, trump biograp r biographer, michael

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