Citizen. Well bring in our cnn analyst who is joining us, formally with the cdc, you have a unique perspective on this. Let me ask you as we play footage for the viewers about how he was taken off the plane on a stretcher covered in a bubble, this is different than other doctors that have returned with ebola who have managed to walk off the plane and walk out of the ambulance. What does this tell you . This tells us that this person is in very critical condition. He is the sickest of the third ebola patients they have had so far. And this bubble cocoon that we are seeing in the video, poppy, that is common on these kinds of planes. Hes so sick and cannot walk into the hospital, but hes still surrounded in that bubble. He lives in maryland, so some people are asking, why not take him to the National Institute of Health Facility in bethesda, for example, or somewhere closer. Do you have any idea why hes being treated there in nebraska . Thats a great question. The reason hes being treated in nebraska because those doctors and Health Care Workers in maryland at the nih center, they are still under their 21day watch period because they so recently cared for a nurse with ebola who was from dallas. Thats why the patient is being taken to nebraska. He is reportedly in worse shape than some of the other doctors who contracted ebola and have come back to be treated here in the united states. Would that affect the treatment he is given, treatments he ma be given or not given as a result of how critically ill he is . It can actually make a really big difference, poppy. Thats because some of the experimental treatments can sometimes make the patient sicker when you first get them compared to others. So it means the doctors caring for this patient in nebraska have to weigh out the benefits and risks of some of the treatments out there. And i offer this morning, will the patient receive the experimental treatment . We cant say this for sure, that he will, but they have treatments lined up that he will receive. Let me ask you this, the cdc sent teams to new york, for example, when treating dr. Craig spencer at bellevue hospital. Do you know or believe the cdc teams will be on their way to nebraska for this case . We have been taught they have an ebola s. W. A. T. Team that would be dispatched within 24 hours potentially of another ebola patient. So it is likely we may see that. On the other hand, this Health Care Facility in nebraska is so expert at treating ebola patients. They are very highly Trained Health care starts, so well have to see where the cdc weighs in. Thank you for your expertise. And this top story, we can pinpoint the moment that ferguson, missouri, turned from any town in the usa into a flashpoint of national outrage. It was the day 18yearold Michael Brown was shot dead by a Ferguson Police officer. Now we are hearing what happened. Really, right around the time of that shooting. Fwhapd the seconds and minutes surrounding that . Were hearing from radio chatter between officers and Police Dispatchers on that day. 45 . We need several more units over here. Theres going to be a problem. Any able ferguson units who can respond to canfield and copper creek . Advice. Well go to our reporter on the ground who has been following this throughout. Sarah, when listening to the recordings in full as you have and talked to the people on the ground in ferguson, are we learning anything significantly new about those moments . Well, there was a lot of talk as to what the officer knew when he initially approached my cal brown. And the family has pointed this out as have others that the initial meeting between wilson and brown, he did not know he was potentially a suspect in a theft at one of the stores here. What you do hear later on is the dispatcher talking about the description of the person being accused of stealing cigars from the store, but that initial meeting between the two that he did not know that he could potentially be a suspect. Were also seeing some video obtained by the st. Louis post dispatch after asking for this surveillance video. And basically they are showing you, Darrin Wilson is coming in and out of the Police Department. Early on, there were sources out of the Police Department who remain unnamed to this time, who said that wilson had very bad facial injuries, particularly to his eye socket. When you look at this video, that is absolutely dispelled. You do not see any kind of major injury to his eye or really anywhere else on his face. But the Police Department after that was reported and leaked from the department, the Police Department did come out to say he did not have a broken eye socket. That there was some swelling in his face, but it certainly wasnt a major beating, for example. And the family has also looked at this video and listened to that audio. And, you know, been upset with the way they say the police handled the initial part of this investigation. Now, we can also talk to you a little bit about Something Else that has come forward. One of the local stations reporting that the police chief has said that if Darrin Wilson does indeed not get indicted, that he will be immediately reinstated. The police chief has really clarified that, so has the mayor. Saying that is not necessarily the truth. What will happen is theres still an internal investigation that needs to go forward with other investigations out there with the federal investigation, but if indeed he were to be reinstated, this is what the major said about that scenario to me today. I would be worried about his safety, absolutely. I would be worried about his public safety. What about the publics reaction . Theres a mixed public reaction right now towards it. I would be concerned that theres going to be some that obviously are going to be angered by that. But again, those are all conversations that have to be continue to be had and have within our department and our officers and with the community. And, of course, its been protesting Darrin Wilson and wanting his arrest, they would be outraged if that did indeed happen. Well monitor that closely as the grand jury decision could come at any moment. Live for us in ferguson, thank you. There are series allegations haunting bill cosby for nearly a decade. Since 2005, 13 women have accused cosby of sexual assault. Allegations he repeatedly denied. This happened during a caption contest on crosbys twitter account this week. A slew of pictures like these appeared. Cosby really tying him to all of these allegations. Lets bring in alexandria field covering this story for us. Alex, lets talk about that a little bit. All the allegations resurfacing again this week. And also we have just learned that a planned appearance for cosby on the late show is not happening anymore. Thats right. Why this appearance has been canceled we dont know, but he did record a taped interview with scott simon, the interview focused on cosbys Art Collection and three times he was asked about the old allegations that have resurfaced and three times bill cosby gives the same response, which is nothing at all. For three years allegations of rape have plagued bill cosby. Given the chance to address hem he said nothing and a lot is being said about that. Cosby was on npr with camille to not talk about the rape allegations and bill cosbys refusal to answer this revealed more than any words could. Still, painful to watch a cornered bully cower. Those are in response to nprs scott simon. This gives me no pleasure, mr. Cosby, but there have been serious allegations raised about you in recent days. You are shaking your head no. Im in the news business, i have to ask the question, do you have any response to those charges . Shaking your head no. There are people who love you who might like to hear from you about this. I want to give you the chance. All right. Reporter simon promoted the interview on twitter saying he asked about rape charges and cited yes or no. After the interview simon tweeted, i hated to have to ask about charges in front of mrs. Cosby. One viewers reaction . Leave bill cosby alone. The next one says being silent makes you look guilty. After the comedian followers to meme him, here are responses. My two favorite things, jello pudding and rape. Look at this wacky shirt im wearing, also im a serial rapist. Hes never been charged for the crime but his lawyers deny the allegations made years ago when several women came forward claiming they were sexually assaulted by cosby. Among them, Barbara Bowman. After going to my agent and going to the lawyer and getting smacked down both times, i just said, let me just get on with my life, move on with my life and let it go. Reporter she believes cosbys silence says it all. A simple shake of the head is implication of a mans heart who is heavily burdened with shame. The statute of limitations for prosecuting the climb that bowman alleges has expired. Attorneys for bill cosby continue to expire after the alleges are lodged against him. Alex, thank you. Coming up next, the next big political fight. Immigration front and center own capitol hill. Will the president use executive action . Well, the issue could become a bargaining chip. The democratic senator is joining me northeast to tackle this one. Not to be focusing, again, on my moderate my goal was to finally get in shape. To severe chronic plaque psoriasis. So i finally made a decision to talk to my dermatologist about humira. Humira works inside my body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to my symptoms. In clinical trials, most adults with moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis saw 75 skin clearance on humira. And the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Set a new goal today. Ask your dermatologist about humira. Because with humira clearer skin is possible. I got this. [thinking] is it that time . The son picks up the check . [thinking] im still working. Hes retired. I hope hes saving. I hope he saved enough. Who matters most to you says the most about you. At massmutual were owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. Whether youre just starting your 401 k or you are ready for retirement, well help you get there. Welcome back. Im poppy harlow in atlanta. Theres still a lot of uncertainty on president obamas upcoming executive order, since the president has not yet made a final decision, theres still a lot of questions as well. What we do know is it is almost certainly coming. Republicans dont like that one bit. Well bring in senator bob casey who is a democrat from pennsylvania. Thank you for being with me, sir. We appreciate it. I want to get straight to this. Outgoing Senate Majority leader harry reid, a democrat, told the white house he wants the president to hold off on executive action, at least until Congress Approves a bill to fund the government. They need to do that by december 1th. Hes worried about a possible Government Shutdown all over again. Do you agree with him . Well, i dont know about the timing, but i do know the president appears to be moving in the direction of taking executive action. I think the only reason hes in this posture right now, poppy, is that the republicans have had a Bipartisan Senate bill sitting in front of them since the spring of 2013, about 18 months ago. And they have done nothing with it. Its a comprehensive bill. Ive got 68 votes in the senate. It was negotiated by eight senators from the left to the right to the middle. And its the best proposal. And it wasnt the president s bill, by the way. So this was this is what i think this is the bill that the republicans and house should take another close look at and try to pass something comparable to that. Senator, i also am wondering, do you agree with harry reid, a fellow democrat, that the president should at least hold off on any executive action until we get a bill passed to fund the government. Well, that might be prudent. The only reason that senator reid would make that proposal is because the republicans have shown a willingness in the recent past to shut the government down. They had a lot of their members voting for it. So that creates a problem for the country. So if that will avert, it would certainly favor that, but im not privy to what republicans are thinking. I want to ask you in transition to iraq, news this week and later out of the joint chiefs of staff, general martin dempsey, making a statement that he may have to recommend to president obama that we do send combat troops, boots on the ground into iraq. If that becomes a situation, would you agree with that move . Poppy, ive said from the beginning, from the beginning of this engagement, back in august and soon after it started, that we shouldnt put american combat troops on the ground. There is a lot of ways for our country to contribute as we have and to have a strategy. One is to use air power, we have used that. We need to use more of that and sustain it for long time. Maybe not just months but a few years. Second, intelligence. The training and equipping of the Syrian Opposition and the further training of the iraqi forces. So a whole range of things we can do to take the fight to isis and to defeat them, but its going to take a lot of time. I dont think the combat troops are the answer. Let me ask you this, because last week on this program, we had a former marine on. And he said to me, you know, im not going to go one side or the other, but the u. S. Government has to at least go all in or more in, not piecemeal as were seeing, or not at all because he fears, and what that means for the safety of the troops there, that it wont get the job done. What is your response to that . Well, poppy, look, i think that when you consider what weve done already in a little more than a decade in iraq and afghanistan, we are always doing the fighting. And when you keep expressing a willingness to do all the fighting, guess who wont fight . The folks in the region. This is a regional problem that were playing a role in stopping. But the iraqis have to do the fighting. The Kurdish Forces have been aggressive as well as the syrians like we hope the turkish government will as well. But we dont want people in the region to be coatholders to use an old expression. You do the fighting, ill hold your coat. Its about time they did the fighting even though we are contributing substantially, our taxpayers have and the military have, but if we keep volunteering to be, to do the fighting, were going to be in iraq for years if not another decade. And that doesnt result in the kind of strategic that is the result that we want. We can help substantially as we have, but we should not do the combat. Senator casey, thank you. Stay with me. Coming up next after a quick break, well talk about a huge manhunt in your state terrifying a community in pennsylvania. The search for matthew eric frein took weeks and eventually he was apprehended, but well dig into how much it costs and the new charges. Were talking terrorism charges in this case, next. Big day . Ah, the usual. Moved some new cars. Hauled a bunch of steel. Kept the supermarket shelves stocked. Made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. Whats up for the next shift . Ah, nothing much. Just keeping the lights on. laugh nice. Doing the big things that move an economy. See you tomorrow, mac. See you tomorrow, sam. Just another day at norfolk southern. The man who eluded police for so long is now in custody in pennsylvania. He is now facing terrorism charges. 31yearold survivalist eric frein was captured october 30th at an abandoned airport. According to court documents, he admitted to shooting two troopers to wake people up. Let me bring in senator bob casey to talk about this. Senator, you grew up in this area, do you agree with the terrorism charges . Well, it appears that the charges are based upon evidence that Law Enforcement has developed. I dont have access to that, but when you make statements like that and you take the actions that mr. Frein took, those charges appear to be warranted. And thats why this was so serious, in addition to killing a state Police Officer and Corporal Dixon and also wounding trooper douglas, apparently he wanted to go further than that. Thats why these charges are very serious and he needs to be held accountable for his actions. The operation were now learning cost about 11 million. That seems like a lot to the average american. Is that normal for an operation of this magnitude . And give us a sense of all the things that went into this that led to that price tag and ultimately the capture . Well, poppy, its a question of the number of days. As you said in your introduction, seven weeks of a manhunt against someone who had planned his escape and the hiding that he did for hes been planning this for years, apparently. So the duration of it was the reason. And i dont im not too concerned about those dollar amounts when you consider the result that they got this individual, they apprehended him. Who was a threat, not only to the individuals that he took action against, but was a continuing threat to Law Enforcement. And whenever you have an action against the state, i think that provides a heightened awareness and also a heightened justification. So i think it was worth it. About half of it will be just for overtime. Wow. And you know, our thanks to everyone who did spend seven weeks tracking him down putting their own lives in danger to do that. Thank you so much. We appreciate it, senator. Good to have you on the program. Well, a former isis soldier who wears a belt is going to talk to us next about how isis recruits the most vulnerable to their ranks. Americas next top model. I have moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis. So i talked to my doctor about my condition and my Treatment Options he told me about stelara® in a medical study, 7 out of 10 stelara® patients saw at least 75 clearer skin at 12 weeks. And 6 out of 10 patients had their plaque psoriasis rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. [ male announcer ] stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections some serious infections require hospitalization before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. Stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. Always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection, have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. Alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems. These may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Tell your doctor if you or anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. After 2 starter doses, i take stelara® 4 times a year, and my skin is clearer. Hey talk to your doctor to see if stelara® is right for you. What youre doing now, janice. Blogging. Your blog is just pictures of you in the mirror. Its called a fashion blog, todd. Well, ive been helping people save money with progressives discounts. Flo, can you get janice a job . [ laughs ] you shouldve stuck to softball i was so much better at softball than janice, dad. Wheres your wife, todd . Vacation. Discounts like homeowners, multipolicy i got a discount on this ham. Ive got the meat sweats. This is good ham, diane. Paperless discounts give it a rest, flo. All yeah, flo, give it a rest. On a daily basis a teenager isis fighter was strapped into a be belt. Our arwa damon talked to the 15yearold gunman who was indoctrinated, trained and used as a guard. Translator explosives, tnt and prepacked with shrapnel with a detonator cord on the side. Those are not the words of an adult. Underneath the scarf worn to conceal his identity city a 15yearold. An isis child soldier. On a daily basis, yasis, not his real name, was strapped in an explosive belt, given a pistol and told to fight. Joining isis willingly, after hay took over his area, he swore allegiance. He and 100 other child recruits were isolated from their families, refusing to see or speak to them. They underwent religious indoctrination embedding their your, impressional minds with islam. And rigorous and military training. Translator we crawled under webbing. There was fire above us. And we would be firing our weapons. Then we jumped through a large metal ring as the trainers fired at our feet telling us if you stop, you will be shot. Reporter with his training complete, he was assigned guard duty. His mother begged him to leave. Translator i would tell her, this is jihad and all of us must do it. Reporter two weeks ago his father decided to defect and tricked his son to coming with him, bringing him to turkey. Translator i was asking him, why are you doing this . What happened . My father turned to me and said that they are not on the right to religious track. Reporter he admits he was afraid the explosive built he wore would accidentally detonate. The first time he witnessed a beheading, he did not eat for two days. He appears to have a gentle demeanor and seems lost in a twisted mental maze, initially saying he wants to go back to isis. Translator my friends and buddies are all there and would pay me 150 a month. My father, 1,000. Reporter later he tells us having regretted joining them. He has a chance to go back to the arabic and mathloving schoolboy he once was. That might not be the case for others trapped in the grip of isis terror. Arwa damon, cnn, turkey. What a report. Arwa, thank you. Lets bring in Counter Terrorism official phillip mudd, looking and listening to arwas report reveals these intense tactics pretty much brainwashing. What does this tell us about how isis is successfully recruiting and growing its ranks . Well, look, isis is not recruiting a child. Lets be clear. A 15yearold is a child. What i witnessed at the cia mostly, also at the fbi, is isis has a simple idea that it uses to transform a childs brain. That idea is, you, this child, have a responsibility to defend the faith, to defend women and children being atracked by the americans and who are attacked by the iraqis or bashar al assad. You have and responsibility to defend the faith. The child is very vulnerable. What you see is the recruitment of a child but not somebody joining isis in my view. What about the tapes that you are the faced in social media talking about how they will never abandon their fight and will expand into saudi arabia, yemen, egypt, libya, do you believe isis can continue to successfully recruit the people . The finances, the resources that it needs . I do, but i think what youre seeing from al bagdadi, why is he in the midst of the deflection of the isis audiotapes . Hes not coming out because isis feels its on the offensive, but because in the midst of reports that hes been either killed or injured in the midst of reports that isis is under threat, hes trying to tell people he wants to recruit, were okay. Come out here. Were not only going to be successful in syria or iraq but in saudi arabia. Does it matter, big picture, phil, taking al baghdadi out . If you take out one leader, and the rate of strikes does not take out the next leader in three months or six months, that is a problem. What you really need to focus on here is not just taking on al bagdadi but leader after leader. Think of this as sharks tooth, if you take out one guy and you dont have another successful strike for a year, they will come up with another leader. You have have to have strikes that are successful over time to degrade isis. You cant just take out one guy and expect to succeed. Can we do it with Ground Troops quickly . Im sorry . Can we do it without u. S. Ground troops . Sort of. I think you can do it in syria because in syria were focused on a relatively small organization. You have heard of corizan, a small group that is representation of a small group in syria. You cant do that in iraq. You need the Iraqi Security forces to sustain the fight on the ground, because in iraq youre worried about the sort of the isis organization, not only conducting terrorist operations potentially against the united states, but controlling a vast amount of territory. And do defeat them, you need people on the ground. Phil mudd, appreciate you coming on, sir. Coming up, another week with no grand jury decision in ferguson, missouri. It could come at any moment. And as people wait, theres a lot of talk on how the community will react whatever the decision are. Fears of new violence overblown . Well discuss, next. Yo over per elevate form, evolve function, and reinvent a category. Chevrolet. The most awarded car company of the year. Find new roads. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Everybody knows that. Well, did you know genies can be really literal . No. What is your wish . No. Ok. A million bucks oh no. Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. This is your last weekend to vote for your favorite cnn hero. Tonight youll meet annette marchgrier. French fries, two honeymustard and a milkshake. My daddy ordered the same thing as me. That is my daddy. My sons father, he was murdered. They had a bond, it was just a bond a lot of kids dont have with their father. I love my city. I have lived here all of my life, but people here are having crisis after crisis. I believe that the violence in this city and grief are directly connected. I feel safe that somebody hurt my dad. A childs grief is different than adults. They can easily lose their identity and their security in that shift can be very dangerous. There you go, right your feelings. What are you feeling today . Our Program Provides a safe place for a child to recover. Our volunteers help the children explore their feelings. Why did you choose red . I was angry that my dad passed away. And talk about healthy ways of coping. Get that anger out we teach our children that its okay to cry. Its okay. Hes feeling very sad. Grief is truly a Public Health problem. We have got to begin to address it. Coping is how we deal with our feelings. Were giving families a sense of hope. Were helping to heal wounds and bring Families Together again. A great story. Remember to vote for your cnn hero of the year at cnnheroes. Com. Coming up next, these two guys face off. Youre taking yourself so seriously, guys. Marc and ben talking about the top stories of the day. And at the top of the hour, s smerconish. Well recap all the top stories, bill cosby, ferguson, missouri, and i have the mayor of london with me. Were packed and ready. Join me at the top of the hour. This season, celebrate whats new, with the bigger, better menu at red lobster try our newest woodgrilled combination maine lobster, extra jumbo shrimp, and salmon all topped with decadent brown butter. Or savory new lobster scampi linguini, with lobster in every bite. And, the ultimate feast. Its the ultimate ultimate with more shrimp than ever. More of what you love, our new menu. Its a bigger, better reason to celebrate. So hurry in and sea food differently. The missouri grand jury considering the Michael Brown case could return its findings any day now. The city and the state are preparing for how the community may respond no matter which way the grand jury comes down. Youll remember Michael Brown is the 18yearold from ferguson who was shot and killed by officer Darrin Wilson on the 9th of august. His death sparked days of protest in the city of ferguson. I want to talk about this and whats ahead with ben ferguson and marc. Theres been a lot of preparation for what may come. Are you concerned this is potentially overblowing the worry about the violence that a decision from the grand jury may bring either way . We are talking about something before theres been any sign of it happening . No, not realistically based on what people have been writing online. Off lot of people that are hoping that they will have a chance to protest and even riot and quite possibly loot and burn things down, in general. So theres some people that are waiting for this to ignite. And a lot of them may not even be from ferguson. That is unfortunate because this has had so much publicity and there are people that are going to come in that just want to be a part of causing problems. And i think that may be the reason we are seeing the response so early because no one wants to be blamed for not doing enough when it gets out of control. Marc, you have spent a lot of time on the ground there in ferguson while the protests went on earlier this fall. We heard from one of the attorneys representing the brown family saying this does not end when the grand jury comes down on this, this is about racial tensions in ferguson. Absolutely. Thats why i disagree with ben a little bit. Most of those coming out of town are not coming down to cause trouble, even the people who may destroy things or cause violence, which we dont advocate, they are still coming from a place of righteous indignation. They are still tired of terrorism in their communities. And thats what they are responding to. We still dont want to dismuss the thing that drove them there in the first place. Because as you pointed out, it didnt start in august. It started hundreds of years ago and certainly decades ago in ferguson where people are becoming or feeling repressed by the state. And it is continuing after this. I want to respond to bill cosby. You said terrorism. Can you clarify what you mean by that, marc . Many young people on the ground feel unsafe, unprotected and subject to random violence on the street. Not by gang members or by other people who look like them, although those are issues we need to talk about as well and do, but by law terrorism is also a strong word, police are terrorists on the ground . I think thats a little irresponsible. Is that what you are saying, mar zplrks. I said the people on the ground feel terrorized. Im telling you what they feel based on what they have said. If you are sub stan give to violence every day, its a form of civic terror. I also want to make sure we get to this, the rape allegations against median for years. Hes never been charged with a crime, never been prosecuted. Those claims have resurfaced in recent days. One of his accusers went public with her claims. Listen to this. It was very controlled. He zeroed right in on my vulnerabilities, which is i have no father figure, so there was no man to come knocking on his door to find out whats going down. And when these things started happening, i wasnt silent. I told my agent what was going down. Cnn, of course, cannot independently confirm these allegations brought against bill cosby. Cosby would not address them when asked about them in an interview on npr. Mark, let me go to you first. This is not just one womans claims. These are 13 different women who over nine years brought allegations against bill cosby. And Barbara Bowman talked a lot about the fact this was a power figure in her life. Someone known as americas dad. What is your take on what were seeing unfold . I think were seeing something that, again, as you point out, has been developing for decades. I grew up in philadelphia, ive heard stories like this as long as i can remember. I cant say theyre true. Im not getting sued by bill cosby tonight. A lot of times when there is smoke there is fire. I hope the truth comes out, no matter what it is. I think its tragic when someone considered to be a father figure on television, someone romanticized on television, could be somebody else off television. I cant say thats him, but it is tragic if true. Ben, in this npr radio interviewed conducted tuesday but just aired this morning, so not a direct response to Barbara Bowmans claims, but to these resurfacing rape allegations, bill would scosby didnt say an he just shook his head. Do you believe he has a responsibility to give a response one way or another to this . I think at some point, yes. When youre asking people to buy your products and see speak, and there are serious allegations like this, you have a duty to the public because you are a public figure to respond and address them. Not only for those curious about what may have happened but also for your fans that may be supporting you. Not just fans. 1 3 women is very concerning. He also settled a case i think in 2006. Also Something Else very concerning. So i think hes going to have to deal with this at some point, because it is a pr nightmare. And ultimately, if there was something wrong here that happened, we should all want that to come to light and come out. And just because not just because it was bill cosby. Mark. I apologize for cutting you off, ben. Im frustrated, because the other piece of this is not just fandom, celebrity. Its the fact that bill cosby made it his personal mission to morally censure black people and especially black men in 2004 and 2005. He went on a tour telling black men there is nothing wrong with it, though. Okay. Let me finish the thought, ben. What im saying if hes a rapist and im not saying he is, but if he were, i think its particularly problematic he was going around attacking people for sexual impropriety. You dont see anything wrong if he did t. Im not saying he did. A huge gap between what he says and does. Im just saying that is why he owes us a response. You dont do that and then be quiet. No one would disagree with that. You dont do that, period. No one does it, period. It doesnt take away from what he was saying. Guys, i have to jump in. Ben, mark, we have to get to i wasnt talking about rape. I was talking about criticizing black people. We have to get to a break. Well be back in a moment. Also, first, Anthony Bourdain made his last trip for this season in parts unknown and in the finale, kicks back in jamaica. Look. Lets accept that this is about as close to paradise as it gets, right . Jamaica. We like jamaican music. We love it. We like jamaican Agricultural Products a lot. We like Jamaican Food a lot. Day one, first order of business, some jerk chicken. Can you blame me . No, i think not. What do we actually know about jamaica . Here its different. Here you can buy a house and the beach. If youre a hotel, you can make it a private beach. It can keep people out. How much of this is left . I mean, who will get to do this . Its sad to say, think its unlikely that 50 years from now anyone but the extraordinarily fortunate, extraordinarily connected and extraordinarily rich will be able to even look at a vista like this. That is my personal theory. Turn the trips you have to take, into one youll never forget. Earn points for every flight and every hotel. Expedia plus rewards. Well even buy you out of your contract. Alaxy note 4 for zero down. So you can get the Samsung Galaxy note 4 for zero down today. Welcome back. Lets continue our conversation with Mark Lamont Hill and ben ferguson. Before the break, we were talking about the rape allegations against bill cosby, allegations he has repeatedly denied but when ask about the allegations, shook his head, didnt say a word. Didnt say anything. Of course, cnn cannot independently, you know, verify any of these. He hasnt been charged. You guys were in the middle of a heated debate. Ben, to you. And then mark. No, i think the core thing is, regardless of what the allegations are, what he was saying to the Africanamerican Community in the last several years is not something that should be negated because of any allegations until it is actually found theyre real. What he was saying in public, you know, mark, its almost like hes saying we shouldnt be listening to him. What bill cosby was saying i think was a positive thing in the Africanamerican Community. Some found it controversial. But it wasnt as if what he was saying in public was somehow wrong or evil. I think ben missed my point. What i was saying is, we were talking about the reasons why bill cosby has an obligation to answer charges. The reason he has an obligation to answer charges, he positioned himself as the moral leader of the black community and as such, i think you have an obligation to answer the question. And i disagree with bens fundamental assertion what bill cosby said was positive. Telling them their names are stupid is silly. When youre selling jello pudding pops and coke is hypocritical. Jello is not expensive, mark. This is off the point. Right. My point is that there is a contradiction oftentimes between bill cosbys lived experience and what he professes and i hope this stuff isnt true. I honestly do. We, of course, welcome him on cnn at any point if he would like to talk to us about these allegations. Guys, appreciate your time, as always. Thank you so much for joining us. Ill be back at 7 00 p. M. Eastern with more news. Smerconish begins right now. Hello and welcome to the program. Im michael smerconish. Great show planned today. Were digging down on important stories with terrific guests. Bill cosby accused of rape and sexual assault, and an alleged victim joins me. While cosby denies the charges. Im an attorney, i intend to get answers. Ferguson, missouri, nerves are raw, the town holding its breath. We talked about what could happen if there is no indictment. But what happens if there is one . Ill ask the cops. And political war in the nations capital. The president versus the republicans over immigration. My take, theres got to be a better way and i think i have one. And the mayor of london is here on his new book about my