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CNNW CNN Newsroom August 4, 2020

4 of the worlds population and a quarter of all known covid19 cases. Things are out of control. But the president made Crystal Clear in a new interview with Jonathan Swann of axios that he says he has it all handled, brushing off the rising death toll, dismissing the reality of the continuous problem with testing in this country, and pushing off blame for why things are so bad, even though he refuses to acknowledge its so bad. So remarkable in what he said, you should hear it for yourself in full. Here it is. Over the years, ive heard you talk about your adherence to a philosophy called positive thinking. This is the mantra, that if you believe something, if you visualize it, then it will happen. To an extent. I also think in terms of the downside. Right. I do. Ive been given a lot of credit for positive thinking, but i also think about downside, because only a fool doesnt. To what extent do you think that that positive thinking mindset is suitable to handling the worst pandemic that weve seen in a century . I think you have to have a positive outlook, oeftherwise y would have nothing without a positive outlook. I think weve done an incredible job from the ventilators, from stopping very infected people from china coming in, meaning putting the ban on china, which frankly nobody wanted me to do. Then putting the ban on europe, not an easy thing to do, when you put a ban on europe. Thats a big thing. We would probably have lost hundreds of thousands of lives more had i not done that. And all of the experts, every one of them, not one of them wanted to do it. They thought it was too severe. Three months later, theyre all saying, im glad you did it. The criticism of you that is most prominent is about the communication. Is the Public Health experts saying, it needs to be based in reality. And theyre saying that the Wishful Thinking and the salesmanship is just not suitable in a time when a pandemic has killed 145,000 americans. And its i understand what youre saying, that people need to hear positive thinking. But for the past five months, its been, the virus is totally under control, and the cases have been going up and the deaths have been going up. Look, look youve been saying its under control. Nobody knew what this thing was all about. This has never happened before. 1917, but it was a totally different it was a flu in that case, okay . But other than 1917, theres never been anything like this. And by the way, if you watch the fake news on television, they dont even talk about it. But you know, there are 188 other countries right now that are suffering, some proportionately far greater than we are. All right, very bad very few. Some proportionately greater than we are. Right now spain is having a big spike and there are tremendous problems in the world. You look at moscow, look at whats going on with moscow. Look at brazil. Look at these countries, whats going on. This was sent to us by china, one way or the other, and were never going to forget it. Believe me, were never going to forget it. And we were beating china at every single point. We were beating them on trade. We were making progress like nobodys ever made progress. They had before the pandemic, they had the worst year, jonathan, that theyve had in 67 years. With the tariffs and Everything Else i did. We were taking in billions of dollars. I was giving some of it to the farmers. The farmers were doing well because i was targeting they were targeting the farmers. I was targeting china. We were doing good. Then all of a sudden, the game changed and i had to close it down. I closed down the greatest economy ever in history. I well, wait. And then, i closed it down. And now were open again. And we saved by the way, by closing it down, we saved millions of lives. If we had have gone the herd, and we knew very little about the disease, if we would have gone herd, we would have lost millions of people. Millions of people. One person is too much. Were at 140,000 people. One person is too much. Were at 140. We would have lost millions of people. And those people that really understand it, that really understand it, they said, its incredible, the job that weve done. And again who says that . The ban the ban banning china from coming in but it was already in here by the time whats that . It was already here. By the time you banned china, it came in through europe. Nobody knew the extent. Nobody knew how contagious it was. But the question is, mr. President , by june, we knew, things were bad. And the last time i was with you was the day before your tulsa rally in the oval. And, you know, you were saying, big huge crowd, it was indoors by the way these people, they listen to you excuse me, jonathan. We had a 19,000 seat stadium. First of all, we had 12,000 people, not 6,000, which you reported and other people reported, but you couldnt even get in. It was like an armed camp. Why would you have wanted that . We had 120 black lives matter why would you have wanted that . Excuse me, wait and tulsa because that area was a very good area at the time. Case were it was an area that was pretty much over a month later, it started going up. But tulsa was a very good. Oklahoma was doing very well as a state. It was almost free. It spiked a month later, a month and a half, two months later, but it was a good area. We had a tremendous crowd. We had tremendous response. You couldnt even it was like an armed camp. You couldnt even get through. You couldnt get anybody in. We had 12,000 people. It was incorrectly reported. The other thing that we had, that nobody wants to talk about, so fox broadcast it. It was the highest rating in the history of Fox Television saturday night. It was the highest rating mr. President wait a minute, youre saying something. Yeah. That speech was the highestrated speech in the history of Fox Television on saturday night, and nobody says that i think you misunderstand me. Im not criticizing your ability to draw a crowd. Are you kidding me . Ive covered you for five years, you draw massive crowds and get huge ratings. And i canceled another one and i had a great crowd in New Hampshire and canceled it for the same reason. But heres the question, ive covered you for a long time. Ive gone to your rallies and talked to your people. They love you, they listen to you, they hang on your every word. They dont listen to me or the media or fauci, they think were fake news. They want to get their advice from you. And so when they hear you say everythings under control, dont worry about Wearing Masks, these are people many of them are older people, mr. President. Under control its giving them a false sense of security. Right now, i think its under control. How . A thousand americans are dying a day. They are dying, its true. It is what it is. But that doesnt mean were doing everything we can. Its under control as much as you can control. This is a horrible plague that beset us. You really think this is as much as we can control it . A thousand deaths a day . I would like to know if somebody first of all, we have done a great job. Weve gotten the governors everything they needed. They didnt do their job many of them didnt, some of them did. Well sit down and talk about the good ones and the bad. Look at that smile. We had the good, the bad, and a lot in the middle. We had some incredible governors. I can tell you right now who the great ones are and the notsogreat ones are. But the governors do it. We gave them massive amounts of material mr. President , you changed your message this week in terms of, you canceled the jacksonville convention, you said, wear a mask, you said, its going to get worse before it gets better. Thats not something you like to say, you said that. By the way, not get worse, like the original flow, you understand that. But i hope not. A thousand now you look arizona is going down. Texas is going down and florida is going down. The question is, are you going to even some of your own aides wonder if you would stick to that message until election day. Whether in a week or two, you wont say, weve got to reopen again, you cant do this stuff anymore, that youll get border of talking about the virus and go back to that sort of cheerleading i never get border talking about this. Its too big a thing. So will you stick to that message . It should have been stopped by china and it wasnt. But now its here, youre the president. Its here. And im very consistent. This is a very serious thing. Do you think i we have 140,000 people at this moment. More than that. This is a very, very serious situation. And what you have to do is handle it the best it can be handled. And again, im working with the governors. I got them tremendous amounts of equipment that they would have never gotten. Jonathan, they wouldnt have equipment now if i didnt get it. When can you commit . By what date, that every american will have access to the sameday testing that you get here in the white house . Well, we have great testing. What were doing by what date . Let me explain, the testing. We have tested more people than any other country, than all of europe put together times two. We have tested more people than anybody ever thought of. India has 1. 4 billion people. Theyve done 11 million tests. Weve done 55, it will be close to 60 million tests and, you know, there are those that say, you can test too much. You do know that. Who says that . Oh, just read the manuals. Read the books. Manuals . What manuals . Read the books. What books . What testing does no, im sorry wait a minute, let me explain. What testing does, it shows cases. It shows where there may be cases. Other countries test you know when they test . They test when somebodys sick. Thats when they test. Im not saying theyre right or wrong. Nobodys done it like weve done it. Weve gotten absolutely no credit for it, but weve come up with so many different tests. The only thing that we have now is some people have to wait longer than we would like them to. Its a big problem. We want pointtopoint. We have a fiveminute to 15minute test. When do you think . Every american. From what i understand, were close to 50 where its pointtopoint test. We are making thousands of instruments, thousands of tests right now, tens of thousands, that can be distributed to various parts of the country. But you have to understand, and weve even sent some of them to other countries where they have a big problem. Jonathan, almost 50 infected i think the number might be over, is immediate testing. The other is tough. You take a test, you have to send to it a laboratory. Lets say that takes a day, lets say its a day thats typical. Its three to four to five days, theres nothing you can do about. When do you think well have that . Relatively soon. What does that mean . You already have half. I would much rather get back to you, because i dont want you to write in one month, i missed it by a day, and its a headline. I want to talk about the federal intervention excuse me, one thing i would say about testing, because we test so much, we show cases. So we show many, many cases. We show tremendous number of i know youre smiling when i say that. I mean, ive heard you say this other countries dont test like we do, so they dont show cases. I wasnt going to continue on the testing, but you said it. So were testing so much because its spread so far in america. Were testing so much because we had the ability to test but south korea jonathan, we didnt even have a test. When i took over, we didnt even have a test why would you have a test . The virus didnt exist. How would you have a test . There was no test for this. We didnt have a test because there was no of course. In a very short order, we got one test, another test. It was broken, the first one. Many of those tests are now obsolete. Its called science and all of a sudden somethings better. But because we tested so many people, 55, 60 Million People very soon, we get cases. You test, some kid has even just a little runny nose, its a case. And then you report many cases. So we look like we have more cases than massive countries, like china, which, by the way, doesnt report, as you know. Well, i dont put any stock in chinas figures. Because we are so much better at testing than any other country in the world, we show more cases. The figure i look at is death. And death is going up now. Its a thousand a day. If you look at death its going up again. Daily death. Take a look at some of these charts. I would love to. Were going to look. Lets look. And if you look at death starting to go up again. Heres one. Well, right here, United States is lowest in numerous categories, were lower than the world. Lower than the world . Lower than europe. In what . In what . Take a look. Right here. Oh, youre doing death as a proportion of cases. Im talking about death as a proportion of population. You cant do that. Why cant i do that . You have to go by where look. Here is the United States. You have to go by the cases. Why not as a proportion of population . When we have somebody what it says is when you have somebody that has where theres a case oh, okay. The people that live from those cases. Its surely a relevant statistic to say if the u. S. Has x population and x percentage of death of that population versus south korea you have to go by the cases. South korea, 50 million population, 300 deaths. Its like, its crazy compared to you dont know that. I do, its on you dont know that. You think theyre faking their statistics, south korea, an advanced country . I wont say that, because we have a very Good Relationship with the country. But they have spikes. Germany, 9,000. Heres one right here. The United States. Look, were last, meaning were first. I dont know what were first in. What . Take a look, again. Its cases. Okay and we have cases because of the testing. A thousand americans are dying a day, but i understand on cases, its different. But youre not reporting it correctly, jonathan. I think i am. If you take a look at this other chart. This is our testing, i believe, the testing yeah, we do more tests. Dont we get credit for that . And because we do more tests, we have more cases. In other words, we test more now, take a look. The top one, thats a good thing, not a bad thing. Jonathan but if hospital rates were going down and deaths were going down, i would say, terrific you deserve to be praised for testing, but theyre all going up hospitalizations 60,000 americans are in hospitals, a thousand dying a day. The papers usually talking about new cases, new cases, new cases. Im talking about death. Its going up. Death is way down from where it was. Its a thousand a day. It was 250,000, down, and now up again. But now its going down again. Its going up. Down in arizona. Nationally, its going up. Going down in florida, going down in texas. Its going down in florida . Yeah, it leveled out and its going down. Thats my report as of yesterday. Anyway, mr. President , if i could change subjects. It is going down in arizona. Arizona, it is. Arizona, it is. Texas has big problems. It spiked and its now going down in florida. Its even and going down in florida. Ill have to see those. But this is the number of tests i dont deny your figures. Youve done more tests my far than the rest of the world. And because weve done more tests, we have more cases. You see . I mean, this is now the third time that ive actually seen this. It really is worth seeing that. Hearing the president in his own words in full, not cut down or distilled or paraphrased. The way an interview with the president of the United States played out in full. Were going to take a break and were going to drill down on what the facts really are and the harm that the fiction is doing when it comes to the crisis that the country is facing right now and what is driving the president to deny that reality. So we all just watched that extraordinary interview that the president gave to Jonathan Swann of axios, an interview conducted last week. So now, let me bring in dr. Simi yasmin, a former cdc disease detective and cnns political director, david chalian. I dont know how many times you guys have had a chance to see it, but that was my third and i still i think its worth doing it even yet again. Dr. Yasmin, well drill down on specific points, but i want to can i get your overall reaction to what you heard from the president there, now six months into the pandemic . So, kate, this was actually my fourth time watching this video, and each time it still feels like a skit or satire. Maybe not so surprising coming from a president who over the last few years has made more than 20,000 false claims. But each time ive watched this, ive been taking notes and writing down things that are false. And there were just so many there, that we can dissect and debunk. What really pains me, though, is we keep having to have this conversation. And were having this conversation as tens of thousands of americans are lying in hospital beds, many more are suffering sick, at home, and there are others who are mourning their loved ones, who have died from covid19, loved ones that they werent even able to bury and mourn properly. And yet we still hear the president making these false claims about the pandemic being under control. No, its not. That were doing tons of testing. Actually, proportionately, were still not doing enough testing. There were false claims about the number of cases going down. Thats not happening everywhere across the u. S. False claims about kids who have runny noses being able to get a test and being counted as covid cases. I have list and lists of all the things that were false. And im frustrated that were in august now. The pandemic is still not under control. Americans are hurting. And we actually get very little remorse, very little sorrow, or acknowledgement that this is a Public Health tragedy on an historical kind of level, and that when we keep bouncing around these numbers, 60,000 hospitalized, 155,000 dead, those arent numbers. Those are people. Those are people with best friends and hobbies and pets and families who loved them. And were in this situation, because, unfortunately, we have a president who did not know how to design, implement, and lead an effective strategy to get this virus under control. Does not know and very clearly does not want to. David, you come at it from a very different perspective, from a political perspective versus a medical perspective, what did you see here . I saw a president struggling to be in command of facts, which he clearly isnt. I saw a president struggling to be in command of the response effort, which he doesnt even seem completely aware of what is required. I guess that would make sense for somebody who doesnt accept the facts of where we are in this battle against the virus, that the response would then be inadequate, if you dont believe in the facts. But thats what i saw. I saw donald trump strugglin

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