Vote yes to convict trump for inciting the insurrection at the u. S. Capitol. Its not yet clear if those 17 yes votes exist but at least one Senate Republican says a trial is definitely justified. I believe that what somebodying alleged and what we saw being alleged and what we saw which is incitement to insurrection is an impeachable offense. If it is not what is . I believe it is the case that it is constitutional after someone has left office. Ill hear what the lawyers have to say for each side but i think it is pretty clear the effort is constitutional. Cnn crime and justice correspondent is in washington and joe johns is on capitol hill. Shimon, you first. Are there any of the reported power moves by then President Trump a problem for him legally . Reporter the key is that it didnt work out as he planned. He tried to get the department of justice top lawyers to try and get some kind of court action at the Supreme Court. They pushed back on that. More significant of course is this reporting that he tried to fire or thought about firing the acting attorney general to put someone in his place who was going to do something more favorable to the president. That certainly could be more problematic for the former president. The fact that didnt work is a good thing obviously and will probably ultimately help him but, nonetheless, an investigation could likely ensue, an internal investigation with senator Chuck Schumer asking the Inspector General at the doj to look into it. That could open up doors to things coming out that maybe would not have otherwise come out if the Inspector General was to take on the investigation. The other thing of course is the impeachment trial. Does this become part of that . And does information from this entire incident and certainly other incidents where the former president tried to exert his power or influence on the department of justice, does that come out in some way during the impeachment trial . So in those venues certainly some issues for the former president. Joe, what about the impeachment math . Democrats in the senate have some work to do to get the votes they need to convict donald trump. What is the confidence level they can do it . Thats right. The math is very simple. 50 50 senate. You need twothirds to convict. That means 17 republicans have to go along with the democrats. If all 50 democrats vote together. As a matter of fact, the calculation is Pretty Simple for democrats isnt it . Those who have been highly critical of donald trump in the past think they know exactly where this needs to go. Listen to senator Elizabeth Warren i cant imagine how Republican Opposition to insurrection would fade over the space of a couple of weeks. We are talking about a president who stood in front of a mob and told them to go to the capitol and invade. Told them to go to the capitol and stop the lawful business of government. So that he could try to stay in the white house. That is so fundamentally wrong. How about if were unified against insurrection . How about if were unified for accountability . Unity starts with accountability. Unity starts with accountability. But for republicans its a much different calculation. At least three different camps from what i can tell. The first camp is pretty obviously those who think there needs to be accountability. We heard from mitt romney just today about that. Then there are the others who are more practical. People like marco rubio, who say, well, we dont need to do this. This is stupid. The country has too many more things to do. Then there are the trumpists, the people who have followed the former president again and again and again. Its important to also say this event if you will that kicks off tomorrow night here up on capitol hill is not just a quasilegal procedure. It is also a political procedure in many ways. There are going to be republicans who have to make that calculation about what kind of power they think donald trump is going to have down the road before they make any decisions on this. Tomorrow night is when the house impeachment managers deliver that article of impeachment to the senate. My thanks to both of you. Joining us now is cnns senior political analyst john avlon and political commentator and host of firing line on pbs margaret hoover. Ahead of this impeachment trial we are getting all of this new information about just how intent trump was on overturning the will of the people the wall street journal reporting he wanted the doj to directly ask the Supreme Court to invalidate bidens win and there is more. Cnn also confirming he wanted to fire then acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen and install a loyalist, relatively unknown Justice Department lawyer, to help him overturn the Georgia Election results. What is your reaction to all of this . The information thats coming out makes it indelibly obvious donald trump was doing everything he could to abuse the power of president to stay in power and overturn an election. If thats not impeachable, i dont know what is. Because take a look. Treason, bribery, high crimes, misdemeanors. A failure to faith tally execute the office and protect and defend the constitution. All of the above get covered. Guess what . The information is going to come out over the next week or two. Its not going to get better. It is going to become more obvious anyone straining to defend donald trump is doing so out of blind partisan loyalty and willful ignorance of the facts and that is simply untenable at least in the realm of honor and honesty in American History. Margaret, we know trump loves the spotlight. He doesnt have social media anymore. Is there any scenario in which you could imagine former President Trump showing up to testify in his own defense . Sure can, ana. Sure can. I mean, what better finale to the apprentice . In all seriousness it is a possibility. I dont know who his Legal Counsel we understand who the team being assembled is but what they will recommend we dont know. And there is a lot of supposition about this being a fait accompli like the last impeachment. A political charade and no way republicans will get behind it. I encourage us to remember how different the circumstances are this time. I think it is quite clear Mitch Oconnell has left the bread crumbs out that he has no interest in letting President Trump off the hook and that in fact if he might be able to create the climate for 17 other republicans to join him to vote to convict, that they might just well do that. And i think thats why you see Mitch Mcconnell asking for a two week delay because it gives time for this case to present itself to the public, for us to learn more information, by the way, every day that passes is a bad day for trump. We learn more and more about how bad this was. I encourage us to just not rush to judgment here. We are asking the senators to be impartial. The public should also take in this information and lets have a transparent and fair process for this president that is going to get a trial in front of the senate. I wonder though if the senators really are impartial, john. You have senator Lindsey Graham playing a very odd role according to the wall street journal. He personally recommended a lawyer for trump. Listen to him here. The president has a very good legal team, a great legal team. Were going to fight like hell to make sure the second impeachment of donald trump ends as quickly as possible. John, what happened to being an impartial juror . Lindsey graham exhibiting situational ethics . Im shocked, ana. Look, he helped get a South Carolina lawyer from down here, the former partner of the Current Governor of South Carolina mcmaster. But its also because, i mean, theyve been straining to find any legal representation that would sign on to donald trump. They are down to sort of the d team at best. This is going to be a lot of the senators still afraid of donald trump, afraid of the base. Theyre going to try to curry favor. They wont be impartial. We all get the joke but it is a question whether 17 of them who believe it is important to actually honor the constitution when you call yourself a constitutional conservative. Thats it. Of course there is gambling in casablanca. Of course there is partisanship and people who are going to toe the line and we know who they are. But there are some who are actually thinking about their legacy. They know theyre not going to run again. There are five or six we know that could be in that category. But what about another 10, 15 or so . Theyre thinking about it. I think theyre thinking about it because Mitch Mcconnell has indicated that he is creating a climate for them to potentially have a vote of conscience. And so lets not rush to judgment. Lets let the facts lay themselves out and come to the forefront. A transparent and fair adjudication of this president s actions in office should speak for themselves. It seems like if there ever were a perfect opportunity for the Republican Party to break with President Trump, this would be the time, john. And yet you have the arizona Republican Party sending a clear signal about where its loyalty remains voting to censure the arizona governor, former senator flake and cindy mccain the widow of senator john mccain. All three of course opposed trumps efforts to overturn the Election Results in the presidency of joe biden. Flake and mccain of course endorsed joe biden before the election. Cindy mccain is now calling this censure a badge of honor. What does this tell you . It tells you how deep the rot has got. It shows the divisions and the fault lines in the Republican Party are going, probably to some degree unbridgeable because you have all the hallmarks of a cult. He is a trump supporter and said he acknowledged reality and some folks whose actual twitter account is actually endorsed violence. This will split the Republican Party. But maybe that is the kind of reckoning that needs to occur because it is donald trump versus democracy, versus reality. Folks are going to choose trump over reality and democracy probably should be on their own little island. Lets be clear. Theres not been a better opportunity to for the Republican Party to divorce itself from the conspiracy theorists and the kooks than this impeachment trial coming forward. You have a real difference, ana as youve seen between the republicans in the house of representatives and the republicans in the senate. I think the republicans in the senate are taking it very seriously and taking the future of the Party Differently and they have the luxury with six year terms to take it differently than the knee jerk reactions of the Conspiracy Theory rot in the base of the party. I dont know if i agree when you marco rubio calling an impeachment trial stupid, senator mike rounds thats because he has an election coming up. You know, on you have to look at when these guys are up for election. You have the Washington Post reporting that, you know, former President Trump has entertained the idea of cree auta ating a third party called the Patriot Party and if you look at the latest polling its like 50 50 in terms of where the Republican Party wants to go, with trump versus have trump gone. I just think about all of these things, margaret, and i guess how big a crisis is this right now . For the Republican Party . Look, it is a real reckoning. I am in no way diminishing that. You just cited marco rubio. He has an election in two years. The people who you are seeing cowering are the people who actually have to be accountable to the base. The ones who have the chance at having moral courage are the ones who dont have that kind of accountability. Nobody is saying like, you know, that may not be a proud moment for you john avlon in American History but that is the reality and if youre reading the tea leaves you are looking at people just reelected that are going to long out live trump. We have a history of third parties that are conservative populist movements in this country. Theyre not powerful. Theyve become footnotes to history. Im looking at the dixiecrats, George Wallaces party, and the know nothings. They can do that. That will expedite the reckoning in the Republican Party. While i love my wife dropping the American History mic the other thing about this what she pointed to in terms of the senators finding it tough to find their spine because they are up for reelection for the most part speaks to how screwed up the incentive structures are in our politics because they are afraid of the base. Closed primaries have made these people moral cowards and compromise the oath they take and that is the problem. We need election reform, democracy reform to adjust the incentive structure so you cant have hostile takeovers of Political Parties by demagogues and responsible senators towering, divided about what they know is right versus what might keep them in power. This was all supposed to be about public service. These elected official. Isnt that what theyre supposed to be all about . Yes. As always, a spirited conversation. I can always count on you both to bring it. Thank you. Thank you. Meantime dr. Deborah birx is speaking out publicly about what really went on inside the Trump White House as it dealt with the deadly pandemic. What she is revealing next. To this day, i mean till the day i left i am convinced there were parallel data streams because i disinformation. I saw the president presenting graphs that i never made. Wet dishes . Residue . Spots . Its not your dishwashers fault. Simply add finish jetdry 3in1 to rinse dry and shine your dishes. Solve three problems at once with finish jet dry 3in1. Introducing fidelity income planning. We look at how much youve saved, how much youll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when youre not working. A plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. Along the way, well give you ways to be tax efficient. And you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time without the unnecessary fees. Talk to us today, so we can help you go from saving. To living. 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Nothing kills more viruses, including the covid19 virus, on more surfaces than lysol disinfectant spray. Lysol. What it takes to protect. Today the u. S. Passed another grim milestone in the coronavirus pandemic. More than 25 million covid19 cases have been confirmed in this country just a little more than a year after the first confirmed case was reported here. 5 million of these cases just since the beginning of january. This comes as dr. Anthony fauci is speaking out about what it was like working with former President Trump. In a new interview with the new york times, fauci says, i would try to express the gravity of the situation and the response of the president was always leaning toward, well, its not that bad, right . I would say, yes, it is that bad. The former White House Coronavirus response coordinator dr. Deborah birx is also speaking out revealing more of what went on behind the scenes. I saw the president presenting graphs that i never made. So i know that someone or someone out there or someone inside was creating a parallel set of data and graphics that were shown to the president. I know what i sent up. And i know that what was in his hands was different from that. You cant do that. Thats what he did, she says. With us now dr. Jonathan reiner professor of medicine at George Washington university and a cnn medical analyst. Dr. Reiner, we have heard dr. Fauci speak out and contradict the president before but this is really i think the first time were hearing such a revelation from dr. Birx. What is your reaction to what we learned from her . Hi, ana. You know, ive tried to give dr. Birx the benefit of the doubt because of her really very distinguished career and with the global aids hiv pandemic. But this is really disgraceful. There have been two big lies this year. One obviously has been about the election but the other big lie that has resulted in probably the deaths of hundreds of thousands of americans was the lie that this virus was not so severe that it was a hoax that masks maybe dont work. And shes been silent through this. And silenc