National guard. Then when we included mr. Stenger, the three of us discussed the specific issue on whether the intelligence warranted the troops and the answer was no. It was a collective answer no, and then mr. Stenger put forward his recommendation of having them on standby, and my recollection is mr. Sund was very satisfied with that. In fact, he briefed the day that he was satisfied, and i heard no concern anytime thereafter. This use of the word optics, the appearance, what it would look like to have the guard, there was reluctance to request assistance because of the appearance. Was there something whats the appearance that you were concerned about, mr. Irving, if indeed you were . Were you concerned that having the guard present would look too militarized, were you concerned about the guard being deployed prior to that in 2020 . I was not concerned about appearance whatsoever. It was all about safety and security. Any reference would have been related to appropriate use of force, display of force, and ultimately the question on the table when we look to any security asset, is does the intelligence warrant it . Again, the collective answer was yes. Mr. Chairman, could i just ask one final question . Yes. Thank you. Madam chair, thank you. Speaker pelosi has asked retired lieutenant generous sell to honor an immediate review of Campus Security in light of the attack. The general has said that the leadership of the Capitol Police, thalt would be you, mr. Sund, and both gentlemen, the house and senate sergeantatarms, he is quoting you for of complicity during the attack and you had complicit reactions. Mr. Sund, were you complicit during the attack . No, i was not. Ive heard that and i think its an insult to the department. Mr. Stenger, were you complicit in the attacks on january 6 . Mr. Irving, were you complicit in the attacks on january 6 . Absolutely not, senator. Of course, none of you were. There is absolutely no evidence to that effect. And, mr. Sund, i think your reaction was appropriate to allege that any of you were complicit in this violent attack from this mob on this building. Its really quite shocking and this person has no business leading any security review related to the events of january 6. Thank you for your indulgence, madam chair. Thank you very much. Next, a new member of both committees, senator padilla. Thank you, madam chair. Theres been a lot of questions from multiple committees understanding about intelligence, what was known, what was shared, et cetera, and differing opinions. Ill try not to be too repetitive. First a quick question for chief sund and the two sergeantatarms. I imagine, like most people, you saw most, if not all, of the house impeachment managers presentations before the United States senate as they sort of laid out the case. The impeachment question aside, we know how that was resolved, but in terms of how january 6 didnt just happen, but the leadup to january 6, is there anything from that presentation that you would disagree with . Just to make sure i understand, the video i watched, the video that was portrayed is all accurate video. As far as any of the other commentary associated with the video, i cant say i watched every single bit of it, but i can tell you the video, a lot of that video was video from the United StatesCapitol Police and it was all accurate. Thank you. Mr. Stenger, mr. Irving, same question. The video i saw certainly was what i could see from my window on january 6. And from my perspective, senator, i have not diagnosed the attack at the time. We left all the information to the intelligence agencies we had at the time, and now i would say leave it to the investigations to make a determination. A question fror the chief specifically. There is an Intelligence Division within the department, correct . Yes, sir. Now, having read your letter to speaker pelosi, you make reference to events on both november 14th as well as december 12th that you had sort of comparable intelligence in terms of risk assessment, threat assessment and the events of november 14th and december 12th, not leading into anything near what happened on january 6 . Is that a correct interpretation of your letter . Thats a correct interpretation. Both indicated that we were going to have various militia groups and extremists in attendance. In addition to the fact that as chief contee had testified to earlier, weapons were recovered during both those events. And so to the best of your recollection, in the leadup to january 6th since it was assessmentcomparable intelligence, roughly, you therefore proceeded with comparable posture. That is correct, we proceeded with the posture that the scene could have incidents of violence. We knew it would be focused on the capitol. We knew there would be members of proud boys, antifa participating. As i said before, not Capitol Police, not metropolitan police had any indication we would be facing an insurrection of thousands of people. If we take our experience with terrorism globally and look at case studies both that were implemented and executed across the United States, is it plausible and i know hindsight is 20 20 is it plausible that the november 14th and december 12th incidents may well have been trial runs, that the very extremist organizations youve referenced involved with the organizing and participation of november 14th, december 12th to gain counterintelligence on how you and your Partner Agencies would be planning and preparing for such incidents . As you rightly point out, when you look at some of the terrorist attacks that occurred, there has been preplanning, presurveillance, precollection on the security features. I dont know if november and december were two incidents of that, but i would suspect with the fact were finding this is a coordinated attack, i wouldnt doubt there was presurveillance. We dont know there were, we dont know there werent . Correct. This was all together in your letter and your testimony earlier today, you bluntly said the Intelligence Community missed this. That is correct, sir. Thats the way i feel. Now, who was commander in chief on december 6 . When you say commander in chief . Who was the president of the United States . Donald trump, sir. Overseeing the Intelligence Community that missed this . Repeat your answer. For the entire 18 agencies that represent the Intelligence Community . Yes, sir, it would be commander in chief. And who was that again . President donald trump. Let me ask a couple questions on a different topic. I think its obvious to many across the country if was on of three senators who was not in chambers on january 6. I had the benefit, if you will, of watching the events occur in realtime both inside the capitol and outside the capitol on television. One thing that was not lost on me and many people ive talked to is the difference in both Police Presence and response on january 6 compared to events from last summer when Peaceful Protesters were demonstrating in the nations capitol in the wake of George Floyds murder. Last summer they were met with significant force. A couple data points. To date some 250 individuals who were involved in the capitol insurrection of january 6 have been arrested. More will likely be arrested in the coming weeks and months, but only a small number, about 52 of these individuals, were arrested on january 6. By contrast, during the largely peaceful protests of last summer, 427 people were arrested. Excuse me, on june 1st alone, 289 people were arrested. Similarly, some 300 protesters were arrested during the kavanaugh hearings in 2018. A question, mr. Sund, can you tell us how the capitol preparation s on january 6 diffr from the protests over the summer . If you could specifically address whether they were the same or different use of force guidelines on january 6 compared to the protests of last summer or any criteria for making arrests on january 6 versus the protests from last summer. Okay, and if you could do that in about a minute. Thank you, senator. Yes, maam, i will do that very concisely. I want to look at it from planning and preparations. We plan before every demonstration the exact same way. It doesnt matter the message of the person, it doesnt matter the demographics of the grievance in the administration. We develop our information, we develop our intel and we base a Response Plan on that. So lets transition to preparations. I will tell you we handle 15 major demonstrations involving black lives matters groups following the death of george floyd over the summer. We had a total of six arrests. No use of less capable abilities. Everything we put in place for january 6 far exceeded any planning we did for events in 2020. With a full activation of deployment, with an application of less lethal had far exceeded any event that i can rektcollec on the nations capitol. Were going to go to senator hagedry and senator king who have been very patient. Thank you, senator klobuchar. Thank you for having us at this hearing. I want to begin by thanking all the Law Enforcement officers that are represented here today. You and your families, thank you for your sacrifice, and certainly my heart goes out to those loved ones who lost their lives in this. In the spring and summer of 2020, many people criticized the use of the National Guard in washington following some of the worst rioting in decades. The mayor said the National Guard was unnecessary and possibly counterproductive. They said some of our d. C. National guard may not agree with their deployment. Top pentagon officials emphasized that on january 6, the guard would have a, quote, far more muted presence than in june, saying, quote, weve learned our lessons. Well be absolutely nowhere near the capitol building. Mr. Sund just stated that despite asking for the National Guard, he was unable to get deployment on january 6. My first question is directed at mr. Sund. Do you think deploying the National Guard in the summertime lessened the request to have National Guard at the capitol . I have nothing regarding decisions made over the summer or the issues on the 4th, however, there was no other word about the 6th. We are here today to examine those issues. Speaker pelosi has also appointed a retired Army Lieutenant general, russell onre, who is going to lead the investigation of the insurrection that happened. He said, once all this gets going again, it was implicit actions by police. You, my sorn, was complicit alog with the house and senate. Do any comments like these suggest someone who was in charge on january 6th . I found the comments he made regarding myself and also the Campus Police officers highly disrespectful to the hardworking men and women to that Police Department. I welcome and look forward to an afteraction that will move this agency forward, move our partnership with the federal agz for agencies forward, but it has to be done in an unbiased fashion. I couldnt agree more, mr. Sund. Any other responses . I would disagree with the generals what he said. I dont believe thats true. There are a lot of people that found themselves in very much danger on that day, and i think saying Something Like that is not in good taste. I cant imagine that being said myself, implying that you all were complicit in this. I thank you for your answers and for your service. I yield back, madam chair. Senator king. You may be muted. I got it. Okay, great. Thank you, madam chair, and i want to thank the witnesses first for their patience this morning and their answers. This has been a long hearing and i really appreciate it. And i appreciate the fact that although you all are no longer, other than the chief in washington, no longer in your positions, that youve come forward to give us the benefit of your observations. It seems to me one of the clear im not going to plow this ground again, but one of the clear pieces of information weve learned today is an intelligence failure. Not necessarily a failure of intelligence but a failure to communicate intelligence. And i think thats something that we all need to think about, and you can be very helpful to us in suggesting what should be the chain of communication in terms of intelligence . You cant adequately prepare if you dont have the information, and it clearly seems to me there were some failures. Chief sund, i have a specific question for you, and its more forwardlooking, but id appreciate your insights. The question is, how do we protect the capitol from either an angry mob or, probably more likely, one or two or three malignant actors without turning it into a fortress . How do we allow the American People to go in the rotunda to tour the capitol, to picnic on the grounds, to play with their kids . It seems to me Going Forward thats really one of the challenges. We want security but we dont i would hate to see the u. S. Capitol turned into a fortress. Your thoughts, mr. Sund . I think you need your mic on. I think we ever thhave the p in place from the intelligence that we need to have. We need to work on where this is coming from when we face a deadly insurrection. The Capitol Police are well trained on what youre talking about, a mumbai style attack, shooters, things like that, those are the types of things were ready for. Its the thousands of people storming a capitol that creates a big issue with us. When youre talking about physical security, and i me mentioned in my Opening Statement in one of the original questions, i think there are options for maintaining an open environment, an open campus type of environment while putting in substantial, physical security measures in place for both the skin of the building as well as farther out. Time and dance is our best friend, and the most important thing is to provide some kind of protection farther out so the officers have more time to deal with it. Thats something, i think, that should be discussed in a closed or classified session. I understand. But and i hope that is a discussion, madam chair, that we can have. I think thats a very impo important because, as i say, we dont want the United States capitol to be so protected that its inaccessible to the American People. Amplify on your intelligence answer. It seems to me youre saying its communicated adequately but we didnt have the collection that we needed. For example, the norfolk, virginia letter. How does it get filtered and where does it get filtered . Again, the Norfolk Field Office letter, thats something to consider, because on the 5th, at noon on the 5th, i held a joint Conference Call with members of the board, my executive team, a dozen of the top Law Enforcement and military officials from washington, d. C. Where we discussed the Upcoming Events on the 6th, the Upcoming Events for the inauguration, any threats or issues we may have. Even though i had the director of the field office for the Washington Field office of the fbi, nothing was mentioned about it. So i think my big point is, i think we need to look out. There is significant evidence coming out that the insurrection that occurred on the 6th was planned, coordinated well in advance, coordinated almost to the point where youre looking between the number of states where youre having events coordinated, and its that detection that i think would have been key to put the Effective Security in place for this event. Finally, when were talking about providing this level of security, is there a playbook, is there a contingency plan thats literally sitting on a shelf somewhere that says demonstrations around the capitol, heres what you do . Some of the timing things, for example, the kbedeployment of t National Guard, might have been faster had there been a predetermined set of phone numbers, actions, steps to be taken. Does that exist, and if not, should it exist . To the level where youre including the National Guard, there is a process where we handle special events and demonstrations, but i tend to agree that we need to streamline the process that we request of the National Guard in the future. Yeah, because clearly there was a delay there that was an important part of the response at the time. Madam chair, again, i want to thank these witnesses. I think they really made a contribution and they made a contribution when they were serving in their respective positions. Thank you, i yield back. Thank you. Senator sinema is recognized for her questions. What coordination was taken leading up to january 6th to share intel across federal and local Law Enforcement, and what security planning took place and with what agencies . Thank you for that question. There were a series of several meetings that took place leading up to the events of january 6th. There were weekly Law Enforcement partners calls where our federal partners are part of that. There is the First Amendment coordinating calls that took place, at least two of those, prior to this event. There is a National ParksService Permit call that also took place prior to this event, and as chief sund mentioned, several calls involving several of the Law Enforcement entities leading up to the ev