Instruments of oppression. I said that and believe its true. So finally, mr. Kent, for as long as i can remember. Policy predicated on principled interest in Democratic Values notely freedom of speech, pre and fair and other elections in the rule of law. Mr. Kent, when american leaders ask foreign governments to investigate their potential rivals, doesnt that make it harder for us to advocate on behalf of those Democratic Values . I believe it makes it more difficult for our diplomatic
representatives overseas to carry out those policy goals, yes. How is that, sir . Well, theres an issue of credibility. They hear diplomats on the ground saying one thing and they hear other u. S. Leaders saying something else. Ambassador taylor, would you agree with that, sir. I would. Is there anything youd like to add how it mike mate it more difficult for you to do your job, sir . Our credibility is based on a respect for the United States, and if we damage that respect, then it hurts our credibility and makes it more difficult for us to do our jobs. Anyone looking at the facts can see what happened was an abuse of power. Anyone looking at the facts can see that what happened was unethical. Anyone looking at the facts can see, anyone, looking at the facts, can see that what went on
was just plain wrong. I yield back, mr. Chirp airman. Mr. Jordan. Thank you, mr. Chairman. 55 days, since july 18th and September 11th A delay sending hardearned tax dollars of the American People to ukraine. Not any country. Ukraine. Young said one of the three most corrupt countries on the planet. Witness friday ef it had in her Deposition Corruption is not just prevalent in ukraine. Its the system. So our president said timeout. Timeout. Check out this new guy. Lets see if zelensky is the real deal. This new guy got elected in april, party took power in july, lets see if hes legitimate. Keep in mind, this is already been discussed in 2018. President trump already had done more for ukraine than obama did. Thats right. President trump who doesnt like
foreign aid wanted European Countries to do more, new how corrupt was and gave them more than obama because he gave them javelins, tank busting. Trump gave missiles but when it came time to check out the new guy President Trump said see if hes legit so for 55 days we economiced him out. President zelensky had five interactions with officials in that time frame. One, of course, phone call. July 25th phone call before President Trump and president zelensky. There were four other facetoface meetings with other senior u. S. Official. Guess what . Not one of those interactions, not one, were Security Assistance dollars linked to investigating barisma or biden. Guess what did happen in those 55 days . The u. S. Senators, and ambassador bolton, Vice President pence, all became
convinced that zelensky was, in fact, worth the risk. He was, in fact, legit and the real deal and a real change. And guess what . They told the president. Hes a reformer. Release the money. And thats exactly what President Trump did. The next few weeks were going to have more witnesses like today that the Democrats Will Parade in here and all going to say this. So and so said such and such to so and so and, therefore we got to impeach the president. Actually, we can get nor speck. Covered it a little bit ago. Ambassador sondland said in his deposition, he said ambassador taylor recalls mr. Morrison told taylor i told morrison i conveyed this to mr. Yermak and meeting with president zelensky and if you can follow that thats the democrats plan and why they want to impeach the president. What were hear over the next couple weeks. Thats what were going to hear. No matter what they do, no
matter how many witnesses they bring if here four facts will not change, have not change will never change. The calls shows no linkagethe bidens. President trump and Press Zelensky both said no linkage, no pressure, no pushing. Ukrainians didnt even know the aid was withheld at the time of the phone call and most importantly, pointed out, ukrainians didnt take specific action relative to the investigation to get the money released. Now, there is one witness, one witness that they wont bring in front of us, they wont bring in front of the American People and thats the guy who started it all. The whistleblower. Nope. 43 435 members of congress. One person gets to know who that is. One person has a staff to talk to that person. The rest of us dont. Only chairman schiff knows the whistleblower. We dont. We will never get the chance, the chance to see the
whistleblower raise his right hand and swear to tell the truth, nothing but the truth. More importantly the American People wont get that chance. This anonymous socalled whistleblower with no firsthand knowledge biased against the president , worked with joe biden the reason were sitting here today will never get a chance to question that individual. Trying to impeach the president based and all that, all that . 11. 5 months before an election. Checking out his credibility, motivation, bias, said this last week. This is a sad day. This is a sad day for this country. You think about what the democrats have put our nation through for the last three years. Started july of 2016 when he spied on two american citizens associated with the president ial campaign and all that unfolded with the Mueller Investigation after that. When that didnt work, here we are, based on this. Based on this. The American People see through all this. They understand the facts, support the president. They understand this process is unfair. And they see through the whole darn sham. With that i yield back. Mr. Welch. Thank you. Id say to my colleagues, id glad to have the person who started it all come in and testify. President trump is welcome to take a seat right there. You know, the question here is not a dispute about the enormous power that a president has. The question is whether in this case it was an abuse of that power. A president can fire and ambassador, for any reason whatsoever. The president can change his policies as he did when he opened the door for turk toy go in and invade kyrgyzstan and as
opposed to many senior advisers. A president can change his position and our position on ukraine. But is there a limit . There is. Because our constitution says no one is above the law. And that limit is that one cannot even as president use the public trust of high office for personal gain. The law prohibits any one of us here on the dias from seeking foreign assistance in our campaigns. The question for us is whether the use of power by the president was for the benefit of advancing his political interests in the 2020 campaign, and by the way, my colleagues, if the president wants to attack joe biden and his son hes free to do it. All fair and square in campaign. Hes not just free to change our Foreign Policy unless he gets his way to assist them in that campaign. Thats a line he cant cross. Now, you all have been very clear about what our continuous Foreign Policy was. And ambassador taylor, just very quickly describe why us Withholding Aid interfered with achieves our National Security goals. Mr. Welch, one of our National Security goals is to resolve conflicts in europe. There is one major conflict in europe. Its a fighting war. Our National Security goals in support of ukraine, in support of a broader strategic approach to europe is to facilitate that
negotiation, is to try to support ukraine when it negotiates with the russians. I want to go back, because in historical context, mr. Kent, you and in, ambassador taylor, you provided, we had seven years of peace after the war in which we lost over 400,000 american lives. And that took care and was in jeopardy as you described in ambassador taylor and threatened each and every one of us up here and the constituents we represent. Is that a fair statement . Thats a fair statement. I want to do three dates, too. Only a little tile. July 24, july 25 and july 26th. July 24th Director Mueller testified about his investigation and he established beyond doubt it was the russians who interfered in our election. And he expressed the fear that
that would be the new normal. On july 25th according to the readout of the president s campaign, he asked the ukrainians to investigate ukrainians interference in our election that had been repudiated. And then july 26th, as i understand it, this person who reported to you heard the president saying he wanted investigations again in ukraine. So this is the question. The new normal that Director Mueller feared, is there a new normal that you fear that a president , any president , can use congressionally approved foreign aid as a lever to get personal advantage in something that in in his his interests but not the publics interest . That should not be the case, mr. Welch. I yield back. Mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous kent to enter into the record the transcript from the July 25th Call between President Trump and president zelensky. You yourself, mr. Chairman, mischaracterized the consulted in the the gentleman will suspend. The gentleman will suspend by unanimous kent be happy to enter the call record into the record. Rogd ro recognized for five minutes. Thank you. What year did you graduate from west point . 1969, height of the vietnam war . Height was about that time. What was your class rank at west point . Number five. How many people were in your class. 800. 800 cadets you were number 5. Yes, sir. So when your top 1 of your class at west point you probably get your pick of assignments but you picked the infantry. I did, sers. A Rifle Company commander. Yes, sir. Where did you serve . In vietnam. See combat in vietnam . I did. Any accommodations for that service . I was awarded the combat infantrymans badge, which is my highest, im proudest of, there was a bronze star, there was an air medal with v. For valor . It is. Talk about july 26th. A lot of years later. You go to the front. Donbass, with ambassador volker i believe and on the bridge looking on the front line of the russian soldiers. What you recall . Yes, sir. And you said the commander there, the ukrainian commander thanked you for the American Military assistance that you knew was being withheld at that
moment . Thats correct. How did that make you feel, sir . Badly. Why . Because it was clear that that commander counted on us. It was clear that that commander had confidence in us. It was clear that that commander had what was appreciative of the compact capabilities he was given by that assistance and the reassurances we were supporting him. You dont strike me at a quicker but threatened to resign or mentioned it in your statement. Before i ask you about that, lets talk about a couple days later on july excuse me. One month later on august 28th. You find yourself in ukraine with the National Security advisers mr. Bolton. Right. Yes, sir convey kwerns about the withholding of military assistance. What does he say to you . That he shares my concern and he advises me to express that in a very special way to the Secretary Of State. Now, hes the National Security advisers works directly to the president but tells you, you should bring it up with the Secretary Of State. Yes, sir. Have you ever sent a cable like that . How many times in your career, 40, 50 years, have you sent a cable directly to the Secretary Of State . Once. This time . Yes, sir. In 50 years . Right we dont send cables but yes, sir. The National Security adviser who can tell it to the president himself and shares your concern says you, the ambassador, for ukraine, should cable the Secretary Of State directly and you do so. Dont you . Yes, sir. What did the cable say, sir . Its classified cable. Without going into classified information. Without going into it says, Security Assistance. This is what weve been talking about today. Security assistance to ukraine at this particular time as in previous times is very important. Ukraine i also made the point we also talked about here today. Ukraine is fortunate for our National Security and we should support. Not not to provide that would be folly. Did you get an answer to your cable . Not directly. No, sir. Do you know what happened to it . Secretary kent secretary kent, do you know what happened to it . Tells me that i was on vacation, on vacation when his cable came in but my understanding is it made to its recipient Secretary Pompeo. We know Secretary Pompeo was on the call a month earlier july 25th. Not like hes on the dark about any of this. What did he do with is . I honestly cant say for sure what happened with the cable once the message was brought in at the highest level. One other question, gentlemen. On September 1st you wall a meeting between the Vice President and the President Of Ukraine, mr. Zelensky, in which right off the bat the President Of Ukraine raises Security Assistance, and the Vice President according to your
testimony says ill talk to the president about that tonight. Im make a call. Do you know if the Vice President made that call . I dont know, sir. Do you know what, if anything, the Vice President had to do with any of this . Can you what more can you tell us about the Vice President s role in this . Do you know if he ever raised this issue with anyone in the administration pushed for release of that Security System . I cant, sir. I believe i to the best of my understanding the Vice President was an advocate for release of the assistance. Thank you. U yield back. Mr. Chairman. Unanimous consent request. General state his request. I consent to submit for the record the political article on Camila Cabello boosting the campaign authored by no objection. Entered into the record. And thank you mr. Chairman and to you both for being with us today. Mr. Kent, you said that a
president has the right to remove an ambassador, because the ambassador serves as the pressu pleasure of the president. Is that correct . Thats correct, maam. Does that usually come with a Smear Campaign of that ambassador by the president . I think the president has a decision to make the decision about the president s personal recommendation is separate from whatever happens outside the confines of u. S. Government processes. Do you have any idea why it was important to discredit ambassador yovanovitch . What she was not willing to do or to do . Why that was important . I guess it probably depends on the motivation of other people, and im not one of them. The committees investigation uncovered a Web Of Shadow Diplomacy engaged in and executed by several state Department Officials and the president s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, and ultimately directed by President Trump. We have heard several ways of
describing this shady shadow operation, shad o shadow diplomacy. Ambassador, you described what you encountered as top diplomat on the ground in ukraine and i kwo quote, highly ig Rer Lal Channel of u. S. Policy making. You testified that the channel included ambassador volker, sondland, Secretary Perry and as you later learned the president s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. Is that correct . Yes, maam. Both of you have explained that you grew seriously concerned when you realized that the interests of this irregular channel diverged from official u. S. Policy and interests. With mr. Giuliani promoting u. S. National interests or policy in ukraine, ambassador . I dont think so, maam. Mr. Kent . No, he was not. What interests do you believe he was promoting, mr. Kent . I believe he was looking to
dig up Political Dirt against a potential rival in the next election cycle. Ambassador taylor . What interest do you believe he was promoting . I agree with mr. Kent. The State Departments role is to promote u. S. Policies overseas. Not to help the current president win reelection. Is that correct, mr. Kent . All federal government enemployees are subject to the hatch act and about policies and not involved in partisan politics. Ambassador taylor . I agree. Whats the risk of running a separate channel of diplomacy that is completely outside of normal channels and does not further u. S. Policy goals, ambassador taylor . Its possible to do one but not the other. That is, if its completely against u. S. Policy goals