The election. It was made by Michael Cohen who is no longer the president s lawyer, and who now is under federal investigation himself and who may conceivably testify against the president in the mueller probe. Talk is about an explayboy model who claims she had an affair with donald trump in 2006. The National Enquirer had purchased her story. Her name is Karen Mcdougle. National National Enquirer pa 150,000 for the apparent purpose of getting her story and then killing it, or preventing it from showing up anywhere else. Trump and cohen were considering buying the rights to the story themselves from the head of the enquirers Parent Company, a man named david pecker, with whom the president is close. Listen to this. I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend, david . So that im going to do that right away. Ive spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding yes. Its all the stuff. All the stuff. Im all over that. I spoke to allen about it. When it comes time for the financing which will be what financing . Well have to pay cash. No, no, no. Let me go kara. There is a discussion of, quote, all the stuff. Poppy, youre right, there is a lot in this tape that we are now examining. On one hand you hear cohen and trump discussing this potential payment to buy the rights to that story. At the time during the campaign when hope hicks, Trumps Campaign spokeswoman was asked about him. She said they had no flknowledg about it. We know that trump did know about the fact that Karen Mcdougle was paid because he and Michael Cohen were discussing buying those rights. The tape is a bit muddy so it is hard to make out exactly everything they are talking about. There is this dispute over whether trump was saying let us pay for cash or saying dont pay for cash, pay for a check. Listen to what Rudy Giuliani, his attorney, said last night about this dispute and this discussion. What i urge people to do is just dont ongyline, listen to e tape. Filet three time play it three times. Ive got about 4,000 hours of mafia people on tape. I know how to listen to them. This tape is Crystal Clear when you listen to it. Ive dealt with much worse tapes than this. The giuliani and trump team have been trying to get ahead of this story spinning this is completely exculpatory. Thats something that i think the prosecutors investigating Michael Cohen will ultimately decide. But to your earlier point, in this tape they discuss the other stuff. So it appears as though we dont have full information. We just know whats on that tape, that they are talking about other things that ami might have. You hear on that tape donald trump saying, right, what if he got hit by a bus . It looks like theyre trying to tie up loose ends of what ami might know. Of course, david pecker, the publisher, is good friends with donald trump. Right. Can you explain to people why ami would want to pay 150,000 inn for for a story and never run it, ostensibly to help the president. Thats a theory. Ami is involved in these catchandkill deals where they buy stories to get them so they never see the light of day. The question here on the Campaign Finance issue was david pecker doing this as a benefit to the president during the election. Thats something prosecutors will be studying. Its not been isolated an event. We also know that Michael Cohen had paid Stormy Daniels around the same time period. Thank you, kara. Appreciate the reporting. Lets talk more about this. With me, abby phillips. I was wondering this morning what the reaction would be from the president directly to the American People on twitter. Now we have it. We do. It is clear that what the president is doing is making this a conversation about Michael Cohen, his personal lawyer, and not about what he is hard saying on that. He says what type of lawyer would tape a client . So sad. Is this a first . Never heard of it before. He also questions whether there are other clients of cohens who are taped and other journalists on some of these tapes. Whats critical is whats said on this tape, which seems to be the president acknowledging that there is some kind of payment being made and some kind of discussion of a potential reimbursement. This is important, in part, because at the time, the president s ai aides were denyi that he knew anything about this at all. The president s response this morning is not addressing any of the underlying questions about this alleged affair, about the payments, and about what exactly he had Michael Cohen do on his behalf. So these are the questions that are going to dominate the story Going Forward beyond just whether or not Michael Cohen ethically was allowed to do this. We know legally he could have in the state of new york. President trump today has several meetings on his schedule on a bunch of other subjects, talking to lawmakers. Hes meeting with the president of the Eu Commission on trade. And hes been tweeting a lot about that. But well also some potential opportunities to talk to him. 1 30 this afternoon he is supposed to have a spray, an opportunity for reporters to be there in the room with him as hes meeting with that Eu Commissioner. You can bet, poppy, that this is going to come up as well. It will. Abby, thank you very much. With me now for the legal perspective on all of this, criminal defense attorney caroline pelosi, and cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, michael zelden. Michael, the read from the Trump Legal Team here is, essentially nothing to see here. Rudy giuliani on fox after chris cuomo aired this tape for the first time, Rudy Giuliani says there is no indication of any crime being committed on this tape. What do your prosecutor ears hear . The only criminal activity that could be relevant here is federal election laws, as far as i can determine. That would be whether or not American Media international, the parent of the National Enquirer that purchased this Karen Mcdougle story and then killed it, did so to influence the outcome of an election, and whether or not donald trump worked in coordination with them to complete that undertaking. Because the Trump Organization really couldnt pay for it themselves. That would be an illegal contribution. So the whole issue here is, was this a willful and knowing violation of federal election laws should this ami payment to mcdougle be reported and was the Trump Campaign in any way complicit with it and the tape itself doesnt answer really any of those questions, but it is something that will be of value to the prosecutors as they evaluate this case. Caroline, when you look at whether money actually traded hands, there is no evidence that the money that was discussed here actually was paid out. You had Rudy Giuliani also saying on fox, this is at most an attempt to do something. I dont know of any attempt in this category of crime that they are looking at. So, end of story . No, not end of story. Michaels right that this could end up being more politically damaging than legally damaging because the federal election law violation, its not the crime of the century. The federal Election Commission rarely prosecutes cases, and in order for the doj to prosecute a case, there would have to be a knowing and willful violation of the law. But it sheds some light on one payment we do know that was made, poppy, to Stormy Daniels. Not the 150,000 payment that they are talking about on this tape, but a 130,000 payment was ma i had to Stormy Daniels. So this could go to the knowledge element of that. He doesnt sound surprised if you listen to the tape. President trump, then candidate trump, does not sound surprised that they are sort of engaging in this type of behavior. So i think it could go to that element. What about this part of it . Beyond the cash or check, he said he said debate that is raging this morning, and it will certainly continue as we two sides dig in, what about the fact, michael zeldin, that hope hicks, who was the campaign spokeswoman, told the wall street journal four days before the election on november 4th, about this payment alleged, you know, we have no knowledge of any of this. This is when she was asked about the payment that ami made to Karen Mcdougle to basically squash the story. So hope hicks testifies before congress and said that sometimes she had to do little lies for donald trump. So i guess this is one of those little lies that she did for donald trump. Or, she didnt know. Or she was lied to. Exactly. Or she was lied to. But donald trump, at the same time in october, 2016, also said directly that he had no knowledge of this. So in terms of politics, people will say, this is further evidence that trump himself is not truthful, that he puts people out as surrogates who arent truthful, or he misleads them and they end up unwittingly being untruthful. So it plays into that narrative. It is not legally significant to me. But the political people will make a lot of hay of this. What about this exchange . This is beyond the cash or check issue here. Right . Heres what it is on the tape recording. Quote, trump what are we going to do . Cohen yes. And it is all the stuff. It is all the stuff because you never know at that company where stuff is going to be. They are talking about david pecker, the head of ami. It is all that stuff thats at question this morning. Obviously the implication is that ami, which is, you said is the Parent Company to many publications, not just the National Enquirer, that they have more information beyond the Karen Mcdougle story, that there may have been a pattern or practice here on the part of ami to use this catchandkill practice, which there is nothing illegal about in theory. But when you get to using it in a pattern or practice for the purpose of influencing the campaign, now that could become a legal issue. So it sounds like there is more to the story here. We know of these 12 tapes that Michael Cohen reported, only one of them has the president on it. And thats what we just heard. Thank you, both. Still to come, much more on that tape. Well take a closer look at the politics, potential political fallout, what this is actually going to mean for the president. But first, the attorney for the accused russian spy, maria butina, says this morning she will be vindicated just moments before shes set to go before a judge for the first time. What we can expect from the hearing today. Alright, i brought in new max protein. To give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you dont. Ill take that. [cheers] 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. New ensure max protein. In two great flavors. Can something so easy, and so beautifaffordable. Erings. Also be this much fun . Ohhhhh, yeaaaaah. Get smart shades, by Budget Blinds and lutron. The 1 provider of custom window coverings. And the top name in smart home technology. Call now for your Free Smart Home consultation. Get a free smart lighting control bundle with your smart shade purchase the president this morning is blasting his former personal attorney and fixer, Michael Cohen, following the release of that secretly recorded audiotape. Lets talk about the politics of all of this. Our political commentatorcommen. Nice to have you all here. Hello, good morning. Lets remind our viewers what is happening in the country in the context around which the president is having this conversation about a potential payment to make sure that a story about an alleged affair doesnt get out there right before an election. I think most important thing to do is sort of the ticktock. The reality is, although lots of politicians lie and donald trump has done more than his share of not telling the truth but we had a direct denial from the white house that this never happened. Four days before the election. Right before the election. So we now know that that wasnt true. Natural followup question to the president , which someone will ask, theyll ask Sarah Sanders, theyll ask the president , theyll shout it to him when he walks across the tarmac, why did you lie . What else might you be lying about . What else does Michael Cohen know . Then of course, there is this legal question in the background about whether or not this rises to the level of a campaign and the, Campaign Contribution that wasnt recorded. The whole reason this has come up is that there could have been a felony committed here. It is not a small matter. It is an important kind of question. 150,000 that you quietly spent on your campaign and never disclosed . Thats serious stuff. It raises the same question the Stormy Daniels payment raises. Lets listen to something the president said yesterday before this tape was aired right here on cnn thats really germane to this conversation. Heres what he said about what the American People should and shouldnt believe. And just remember what youre seeing and what youre reading is not whats happening. Just stick with us. Dont believe the crap you see from these people. John avlon . I mean hes saying this is before he even knew the tape was out there because his team found out about 6 00 p. M. Yesterday, it aired here at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. He says dont believe anything that you are seeing or reading. It makes you wonder if thats almost a prevent defense. Because essentially what his team is saying about the tapes that were released last night on cuomo prime are, dont believe your lying eyes or ears, listen to me. That kind of rhetoric from a president is jarring, even from this president whos had such a litany of lies. That language is really closely mirroring language from frankly george yore weorwells 1984 whe partys line is, dont believe what you see and hear. To hear that from the president is jarring and it does kind of telegraph the trump teams response to that tape because theyll have a hard time spinning their way out of it. It ultimately will be just dont listen. Dont believe it. Listen to me. You have an issue here. You have an issue here somebody sybrina. And the issue is that neither of these men have a lot off credibility or are known for always telling the truth. You have the American People i guess sort of having to decide, who he a more credible in this . President trump and his legal team or Michael Cohen and what his lawyers say. Certainly neither Michael Cohen nor President Trump have been forthcoming with respect to either of these payments, be it the one made by the National Enquirer to Karen Mcdougle or of course the payment that Michael Cohen says he personally made to Stormy Daniels. I think certainly for the white house, its far more troubling that their narrative has been contradicted at every turn. Hope hicks vehemently denied having any knowledge of the payment to Karen Mcdougle, even when its been raised, Sarah Sanders has denied that the president had knowledge of the payment from the white house podium. We have now learned of course the opposite, that the president in fact discussed this very payment with cohen. I think what you have is a pattern emerging where if not the president being directly involved himself, at a minimum there are people close to him, be it Michael Cohen or david pecker, publisher of the National Enquirer, who have engaged in a practice of trying to intimidate or pay women into silence. The question now is what exactly did the president know and when did he know it. A very apropos question decades ago. I mean the comparison to the nixon tape parallels, i mean its different but well, look. It is not an accident perhaps that nixon is Donald Trumps favorite president. He identifies with him. He campaigned on a lot of similar slogans. Relevant to this tape is that on one of the most infamous nixon tapes, john dean and knicksi nin tape talking about 1 million cash payment. It is reminiscent of that. That kind of skullduggery by a president , which is really beneath the office. It brought down nixon. This may resuscitate things that are no the helpful to the president. Skullduggery. The demeanor and tone are very important. Were on television but audio is very, very powerful. It was. I remember vividly hearing those watergate tapes for the first time. What about the president s loyal supporters . And trump voters . If the access Hollywood Tape didnt move the needle on that, should anyone think this will . Thats interesting. I think the relevant metric with loyal Trump Supporters is how many of them are left. By definition, a loyal trump supporter, as he fam