On the rules of the trial. Will there be witnesses called or not. That leaves the president a little more concerned, perhaps, as he heads to florida. Also stunning this morning, Washington Post report telling us more about what is behind the president s belief that it was ukraine, not russia, that interfered in the 2016 election. Of course, its completely unfounded but one former official tells the post the president said, quote, putin told me the ukraine Conspiracy Theory one of the defenses mounted by the president and his allies. Theres a lot to get to. Lets begin with the negotiations on capitol hill and the latest there. Our senior congressional reporter manu raju joins me now. An impasse is not a hopeful word, manu. What does this mean . It means the senate trial for the president is in limbo. We dont know when it will start. We dont know exactly how long this impasse will last. We do know what the differences are. The democrats in the senate are demanding having witnesses and documents agreed to up front in the negotiations. Mitch mcconnell said the majority leader does not want to agree to that up front. They can deal with that at a later time. He wants to start the trial, get the bare bones, nuts and beeolt of the trial. And who to bring forward at a later date. Thats not what the democrats are agreeing to at the moment. Chuck schumer wants to make sure they can hear from some of those witnesses who did not come before the house impeachment probe including Mick Mulvaney and john bolton. And those individuals did not come because the white house intervened and blocked their testimony and democrats chose not to fight that in court. Mitch mcconnell said they should have went to court to get those witnesses to come forward. Now at the same time, nancy pelosi, the house speaker, has decided not to send over those articles of impeachment from the house to the senate which would prompt the senate trial. Because she wants to see what the process is in the senate first. The Senate Leaders dont get a deal, its uncertain when the articles will not be sent over. At the same time, everybody in this town is essentially gone because both the house and senate close their doors for the holidays and dont return until the week of january 6th. We could see uncertain the president s trial in an uncertain position until they get back to town. One thing the president has made clear on twitter and in private is that he does, in fact, want a senate trial. He is demanding a senate trial to happen. But Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell doesnt necessarily want a senate trial saying if they dont send over the articles to him, so be it. Its fine with him. Theres a difference between the two. Well see how that gets resolved, poppy. Maybe some reflection over the holidays. Manu thank you very much. Lets go to joe johns with more on the strategy. The president wants a trial like yesterday. Yeah. He says he wants an immediate trial. And, look, talking to people over here at the white house, if theres one thing that they made really clear its that this has at least four corners. You have to worry about the process, the politics, the law and the facts and there are disagreements between people at the white house and people on capitol hill on just about all of that. But the procedures is the biggest thing. And as manu was just pointing out, there are appear to be divisions, small divisions between the president of the United States and the republican majority leader of the United States senate. Especially when it comes to whether there will be a long trial or short trial. The president has suggested hed like to see a longer trial. More theatrical. Mr. Mcconnell has suggested he would like to see a short trial, and he doesnt want a circus because its quite clear to people up on capitol hill that with all these moving parts, number one, the defendant cant call the shots but also, if you have a long trial, theres a real concern that it could be unpredictable, if you will. That is something mcconnell does not want because right now he believes he has Senate Republicans locked in, opposed to the conviction of the president. Back to you. All right, joe johns. Appreciate the reporting. If i dont see you first, have a great holiday. You, too. Meantime, the president is closing the gap on his 2020 democratic rivals in a new cnn poll of headtohead matchups. It shows the president has cut the lead that joe biden and Bernie Sanders had on him and have back in october while overtaking mayor Pete Buttigieg altogether. These new numbers come on the heels of last nights democratic debate where buttigieg found himself to be a target. The mayor just recently had a fundraiser that was held in a wine cave full of crystals and served 900 a bottle wine. Im literally the only person on this stage who is not a millionaire or a billionaire. Your net worth is 100 times mine. I do not sell access to my time. I dont do call time with millionaires and billionaires as of when . Your president ial campaign right now, as we speak, is funded in part by money you transferred having raised it at those exact same bigticket fundraisers you now denounce. Im joined by david gergen, a former adviser to four president s and bob barnett who has coached ten different campaigns for president ial debates, ten different campaigns. Good to have you both, gentlemen. I havent had 900 bottle of wine in a wine cave, but, you know, this is its going to stick, right, if there are things from debates that stick, i think wine cave was it last night. Bob, let me begin with you. It seemed like one of the most obvious clashes that will continue throughout is about money and politics. Is that what sways voters . You cant get to the general unless you pass through the caucuses and primaries. And im acutely aware of that having gone through ten president ial campaigns. But im disappointed that we didnt spend more time last night after the first ten minutes talking about the general election opponent. Im not sure this election ultimately will be decided by money and politics or whether rich people get Free College Tuition or how we pay for medicare for all. I realize youve got to debate those things and show the differences for purposes of winning the nomination. But i wish there had been more time spent the day after impeachment on that discussion. So that is an interesting point because you heard andrew yang say last night to all of his fellow democrats on stage and off, you guys are too obsessed with impeachment. I think bob is fundamentally right, though, and that is everybody wants to size up the Democratic Candidates in comparison to trump. And its not too early to begin making the case or framing what that connotation is. Joe biden needs to say heres how my campaign will be different from trumps, and heres how especially my presidency will be different from trumps and persuade people that he has the more attractive. I think that trump is closing in on the cnn poll is fascinating to think that an impeached president actually is drawing closer to his rivals. It suggests this is going to be a very, very tight race. I did think last night, id be curious about bobs view, i thought biden and klobuchar were more relaxed and had better nights. It made you wonder, is that a possible ticket . Does she help him or does he need to go to an africanamerican to go more diversity. Two white guys are not going to cut it at the top of the democratic ticket. Speaking of klobuchar, lets play this moment and ill tell you why it reminds me of an election long ago. Heres an exchange between senator klobuchar and mayor buttigieg. In the last debate, mayor, you basically mocked the hundred years of experience on the stage. And i have not denigrated your experience as a local official. Ive been one. I just think you should respect our experience. You did denigrate my experience and it was before the break and i was going to let it go because weve got bigger fish to fry but you implied i dont think we have bigger fish to fry than picking a president of the United States. Okay. So klobuchar saying i have not denigrated your experience as a local official. Reminded me of maybe a minnesota nice way of this exchange between reagan and mondale. Listen. I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponents youth and inexperience. What do you think, bob . I think Amy Klobuchar had her best night and had a very good night. I think that as primary and caucusgoers look at this process, weve had six debates. Were going to have 114 more. I think that they are looking at electability, but i am also looking at governability, if thats a word. And i think that we have to find, as democrats, a candidate who can win in the general election. But i think more and more as we see whats going on particularly as i say the day after impeachment, people are looking at who can govern. And to me, experience, maybe its because im getting very old, experience is very important. And there are people on that stage with superb experience, and there are people on that stage with far lesser experience. You are younger by the day, bob. Thank you. David, i want you to weigh in on this before we go because its very important. Diversity or the lack thereof on the stage last night. Listen to this from andrew yang who was the only person of color up there. Its both an honor and disappointment to be the lone candidate of color on the stage tonight. I grew up the son of immigrants, and i had many racial epithets used against me as a kid but black and latinos have something much more powerful working against them than words. They have numbers. The average net worth of a black household is only 10 that of a white household. For latinos its 12 . If you are a black woman youre 320 more likely to die from complications in childbirth. These are the numbers that define race in our country. I was really glad, david, to hear the issue of maternal morality rates among black women in america brought up because i dont think its been brought up enough last night. What does this mean, big picture, for the state of the Democratic Party, the lack of diversity and what the dnc should do. David, ill begin with you. Participation criteria. Well, lets say a couple of things. One on diversity. You could see from the various speeches there during the impeachment process how white the Republican Party has become and how diversified the Democratic Party has become. Its a very different party. Whats critical to democrats is to be able to mobilize those various elements of the party whether its people of color or whether its the young, whether its suburban women. And also, frankly, women who live in big cities. I think its really, really important. But you need to get those groups mobilized, and you need a ticket that can get them excited. Thats one of the things buttigieg has been facing and needs to break into that vote. On the presentation side, two things quick. I thought that moving screen behind the candidates was a bad idea. They ought to ditch that and keep a flat screen. When i saw joe biden last night, who made him up . He just appeared so much older. He was fine at the debate. But i just thought the lighting and the makeup didnt work for him. Okay. Bob . Quick comment on the criteria. Tom perez and his team at the dnc set forth clear criteria that were transparent and nobody objected. They measured two things. They measured voter appeal and the ability to raise funds. Both of which are important if you are going to defeat the opponent in the general election. Those criteria have resulted in some very good people being eliminated. Id point to Michael Bennet as one, cory booker as another. I hope we dont change the criteria, if you will, for situational ethics to help one person or another. I think if you have criteria and they are fair and they evenly apply, they should continue to be applied as long as they measure to me which is important which is the ability to get votes and ability to raise money. Thank you both. Happy holidays. Hope you get a little r r next week. We appreciate it. See you in the new year. Those Democratic Candidates may challenge the idea the u. S. Economy is roaring. 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She wants to see the Upper Chamber hold a fair trial. What does that mean . We dont totally know yet. Eric swalwell who sits on the judiciary and intelligence committees joins me. Appreciate you being here before you leave for the holidays. Of course. You have said the speaker has the right to holdsending those articles over to the senate. Are you comfortable with an indefinite hold on the constitutional process . What we believe is the speaker and the American People should have assurances theres going to be a fair trial and that the outcome is not going to be rigged. And i think thats also something that we owe to the witnesses who risked their livelihood, their careers, their lives to come forward and describe what the president did to abuse his office. And to just throw out what they said and not pursue the evidence they led us to that the president has blocked. I think it would be unfortunate. Its early. The president s only been impeached for two days. And i hope this is something that can be sorted out soon. What would give you that assurance then, congressman . For example, would you be comfortable with nancy pelosi sending over those articles to the Senate Without mcconnell agreeing to hear from any of those four witnesses that schumer has proposed . So ill leave that to speaker pelosi. I will just say in 1999, on cnn, senator mcconnell during the clinton impeachment trial said that trials should have witnesses. And yeah. He was arguing there should be witnesses at that tirial. I think he was right then. Hes right now. This upcoming trial should provide assurances that relevant witnesses will be called. He did say that and jim sciutto played that on our show yesterday. Just following your sort of logic here then, what about Chuck Schumer who, back then, in 99 said no witnesses and no new evidence in the impeachment trial of president clinton . Was he also right then or is he right now . I would not agree that he was right then. I think hes right now. This is theres an issue here where there are four witnesses the president has blocked. Senator schumer has identified who are relevant and we could learn more from them. We sent over a powerful case but if any senator has doubt hearing from mulvaney or john bolton would be very powerful evidence. 70 of americans said this week the president should stop blocking witnesses. And i think senator mcconnell should hear those americans. Youve seen the new cnn polling out earlier this week. And it shows not only a drop in support nationally for impeachment, just in a month, down 5 from november to december, but what really has struck us is when you look among democrats, that their support for impeaching and removing the president from office, yes, its still 77 , but congressman, its down 13 points. Its down from 90 in november. Why do you think that is . And ive seen a fox poll which had support for impeachment and removal at 50 . The polls are around the 45 to 50 area. Democrats that ive talked to are demo