Aid. Manu raju is on the hill. Manu, tell us why democrats wanted to hear from sondland. Sondland played a key role in discussions about setting up a meeting and having discussions after President Trump talked to the president of ukraine zelensky about the president s desire to investigate joe biden, have the ukranians investigate joe biden. Around that conversation the president had with zelensky, someone engaged with individuals about moving forward in setting up both a meeting with the ukranian government and the president of the United States. That meeting had been put on ice. The ukranians had raised concerns about that. Also he was involved in discussions about why military aid was withheld. He said in one of the Text Messages with another diplomat that there was no quid pro quo and then there were more messages in that text message exchange. Someone said, call me. He told that to bill taylor on capitol hill. They also wanted to see these Text Messages of his own that had not been turned over yet to capitol hill. Adam schiff came out after this was announced, that someone would not appear, and made it very clear he views this as obstruction of congress. We will consider this act today, and weve had members fly in from around the country to hear the ambassadors testimony as well as the withholding of the ambassadors documents as well as efforts that may be made to discourage or have the effect of other state departments to not dmom and testify to be further acts of a coequal branch of government. We understand why the department decided not to have Gordon Sondland appear today. Its based on the unfair and partisan protsz mr. Schiff has been running. Nancy pelosi, the house speaker, just spoke to reporters in seattle, and she dhaucalled an abuse of power. She said the president is obstructing congress from getting the facts, but she asked if there would be parts of an article of impeachment. Clearly that is a major consideration as the Democrats Ask these witnesses who are not yet coming. Brianna . Manu, thank you. A source close to the president s Impeachment Team is telling cnn that blocking sondlands testimony today was part of a larger strategy, that the days of playing nice, if you thought they were, are over. Brianna, we know late last night they were discussing whether the ambassador should go to capitol hill for the scheduled testimony. They said he actually wanted to come, he wanted to be questioned about this. While the white house has put out a statement to keep the dogs ma hanging it. They want democrats to take that vote before they have to cooperate too fully and that is really what played a key factor in determining whether or not they should block him from going up to capitol hill. Of course, this is going to be a fight that conditions. What youre seeing with the tlelts many. Go tlup and testify, tell him what he knows, because of course hes someone at the center of all of this. European union seent on a lot of this. That is why so many people want to talk to him about these discussions. Here to discuss, jessica engle, dana bash. This is about sondland and what he would have to testify about. The most senior in ukraine texts about, quote, help for a political campaign. He calls it, quote, crazy. The eu replies after several hours with this. Quote, bill, i believe you are incorrect about President Trumps intentions. The president has been Crystal Clear no quid pro quos of any kind. He said, whats going on here . Call the president. You see theres a gap of about four and a half hours that he spoke with the president , im told, and that the president emphatically told him there was no quid pro quo which kind of explains the timeline and also the lawyerly response to taylors text. I should also noete the wall street journal has reported this as well, so it lets you understand a little bit about what was going on in sondlands mind. He was somebody who wanted to get aid to ukraine, and here he is a political appointee hearing this from a professional diplomat, and hes saying, what, really . Then he decided, im going to call the president for myself. And that was the answer he got. What do you think about this, dana . So many things. First of all, just chain of command. The fact the ambassador to the eu, it sounds like a shoulder shrug maybe at first blush that he would just pick up the phone and call the president. But thats normally not how it works. It kind of shows how handson the president of the united stat states on this particular topic and why. Second of all is the gap. The fact there was a gap and he wrote that text that youve all seen that we just read again, deliberately. With input from somebody. Maybe a lawyer, who knows. If you kind of take a step back about it it, what other information does he have . Those are all the questions, the very real questions they were going to ask him today and the fact he the administration decided to take the political skmilt looking like they had something to hide pd. Maybe theyve learned their lesson that transparency has some costs . Joseph, youre a former federal prosecutor sorks if you were trying to listen some, right . I could not have crafted it better if he was my own client. Weve seen the transcript, weve seen the whistleblower complaint, but lets go to the witnesses that actually know what happened here. From my perspective, youve seen a radical change in strategy in the last two weeks. Going to the president saying, you want the whistleblower complaint, here you go. Thats not whats going to happen going forward. Theyre going to circle the wagons, theyre going to drag their feet and make every bit of information impossibly hard to get. How hard is it for a state employee to tell sondland, hey, youre not cooperating with the investigation. Were sort of on uncharted territory because its something they havent been faced with. These ambassadors still work with sondland, and ambassador sondland indicated earlier today that he didnt really have a choice after the state department told him he could not go and talk to congress. But the statement did say he was profoundlily. The other factor here, however. We flaerd chairman this morning that there was no indication in those krgss that ambassador sondland was not going to show up. It really demonstrated that this was a decision made by the white house. The stapt department was going back and forth with this testimony, and then ultimately, the president wont allow them at the center this, but it appears the white house is calling the shots here. Jeffrey, youre a historian. Youre an expert on impeachment. The white houses blanket noncompliance here. Historically, how well does that work out for an administration . You know, historically, weve really crossed an important rubicon. This is something that doesnt particularly work out well for any administration. In fact, the three impeachment cases we have, Andrew Johnson in the 186 ons and Richard Nixons in the 1970s, really averted. Ly we need to rea skpert not. The question wloof congress has the right to subpoena, thats actualment. Historically thats when congress has acted. Republicans, the white house, they have obviously settled on the reality that the House Democrats are moovving on this. So yes, the democrats are saying, as adam schiff said this morning, this is another key piece of evidence were building on obstruction of congress, as jeffrey just said. Thats a case theyve already got. So this were not going to give them more evidence strategy is acknowledging that reality. Do they need more evidence for a compelling case . They would like to get as much as they can. Its about potentially pulling some republicans over who could see a broader, more deep, more substantial case and say, i dont have a choice but to be with the democrats. Can i just add one more thing about pompeo here, the secretary of state . Because it was the state department that told him. Pompeo was one of the leaders of the benghazi investigation, and now there are clips everywhere of pompeo talking about how we need to get all the information, we need to get all the documents, we need to get all the facts, we need to have you cooperate. And here he is now telling sondland that, sorry, you cant testify about something you were directly involved in. Shoe me the other foot. Thats right. I would agree to limited evidence, though. People can understand the abuse of office for political gain. They understand that. Thats why the polls are changing. If the dems are talking process, theyre losing. If youre fighting about whistleblower testimony, subpoenas and who showed up and who is not showing up . Is this a real impeachment inquiry because it hasnt had a vote. Then youre losing ground. Keep your eye on the ball, stick with the evidence you had. Build a case but dont let this run out over a year. Youre basically playing on the president s field at that point and youre losing ground. Jeffrey, this is an uphill battle for democrats, especially with a president who shows no shame and no desire to try to avoid this fight publicly. I actually might take that point and take it another direction in light of your fellow guests. I think this is something the congress can historically impeach the president for without further efrd. I think it might be something the American People understand. Everybody in third grade understands there are civics lessons on the constitution, that we are set up with three coequal branches that stuck gel f struggle for power. When one gets too much, the other strikes back. Historically, the fact that the president disagrees with congress is reason enough for congress to impeach. That might not be the ideal case for democrats, but its certainly something weve seen in the past be enough to move the impeachment forward. Jeffrey, thank you so much. Kylie, really appreciate it, gloria, michael, thank you all. What will the congress do to get the answers theyre looking for . Ill have that next. And twentyseven vitamins and minerals. Ensure, for strength and energy. Pain happens. Saturdays happen. Aleve it. Aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. When pain happens, aleve it. All day strong. Billions of problems. Sore gums . Bleeding gums . Painful flossing . Theres a therabreath for you. Therabreath healthy gums oral rinse fights gingivitis and plaque and prevents gum disease for 24 hours. So you can. Breathe easy, theres therabreath at walmart. Plants capture co2. 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The white house ordered ambassador Gordon Sondland not to testify before Congress Today as scheduled. Sondland was intimately involved with negotiations with ukraine over military aid that the president wanted to exchange for getting dirt on joe biden. Congre the congresswoman is with us today. Thank you for being with us. Of course. You were set to hear testimony from Gordon Sondland. What did you expect to her . We heard only an hour before he was supposed to be there that he wouldnt be there. He has critical information. Sondland was present with the president in several conversations back and forth. He has personal emails we need to ask him about. This man, who is, after all, the ambassador to the eu, you must ask yourself, what is he doing in ukraine . This is a man who flew to warsaw to meet with president zelensky. He inserted himself deeply into this matter, and the matter, of course, is in withholding information on National Security by the president. He made himself a part of it. We need to talk with him. Now we must subpoena him because he has refused to come voluntarily. Congressbottwoman, i want to because one of our experts just made a point that our political analysts agreed with, which is when democrats are focused on process, which the Trump Administration is making this happen to some degree, but this focus on subpoenas, who is not testifying, stonewalling instead of, say, what is the narrative, right, of what is in the transcript, that its not really a compelling argument for swaying the public or republicans. What do you say to that, and what do democrats need to do to get away from that . First of all, were not focused very much on process because we already have enough in this inquiry to move forward with impeachment. But we are concerned that we miss no steps. And the reason we are requiring the president to go through all the hoops is so that he will not raise process against us. He knows full well that he himself has confessed, if i may use that word, to what amounted to articles of impeachment. But thats not the way the house is going to move. It is going to go step by step. And as you can see, what theyre doing is simply piling on with more reasons for articles of impeachment. When do you expect there to be a floor vote on impeachment . We cant know that because that would be jumping the hoop. We need to go through the steps remember, the congress is not even in session and yet were working. We do want to do this expeditiously. We want to get to the real business of the house of representatives. Here weve taken the house ten months ago. Were not even talking about Climate Change and gun control, and we want to get back to that. The only way to get back to those Critical Issues which are responsible for our taking control of the house, is to clear away this impeachment matter and move forward when the Congress Comes back. House republicans came out in support of the white house blocking sondlands testimony. Perhaps no surprise there. But they say if democrats release the full transcript from ukraine envoy kurt volkers testimony last week that they will reconsider. Why havent we seen volkers full testimony . Well, were not withholding transcripts. I have not been informed. Im on one of the three committees. Ive not been informed about any delay. We certainly have seen transcripts that are for example, of the whistleblower that are definitive on what the president has done. I have not been informed. They say these are Text Messages. Do you think that would be helpful to see. More Text Messages from the ambassador . Just that congress was able to see that were in greater number than what was released publicly. Yeah, there are more Text Messages, for example, from ambassador sondland. We want those Text Messages as well as his testimony. And so we will be subpoenaing those Text Messages as well as subpoenaing him to come before our committee. All right, congresswoman eleanor norms holton, thank you so much. Many republicans have been in lock step with the president s tax returns. We have the Deputy Campaign manager talking to me about that. And tremfya® was proven superior to humira® in providing significantly clearer skin. Dont use if youre allergic to tremfya®. Tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for