Team that th whether this time is going to make a difference. The goal among Senate Republican leaders and those at the white house is to get a deal by weeks end, still, by the end of this week, to have it in place before leaving for congressional recess, because next week is july 4th. Theyre all going to be home in their home states all week. That is the goal. But, you know, anderson, the alternative was definite failure. We started talking about this last night as we started getting the Senate Republicans, one after another, telling us that they were not even going to vote for the measure necessarily to start debate on this bill. And the numbers got so high, it was incredibly clear to the Republican Leadership and the white house this morning that they didnt really have a choice but to heed the warnings and the calls from a lot of their members that they need more time, and of course the leadership needed more time in order to, and theyre still going to try to craft some form of deal, but look, i think at the end of the day, its still going to be very hard, anderson, to get the moderate republicans who come from states where they are begging them, not to do this bill or anything close to this bill, which would slash medicaid benefits and medicaid funding that really do give a lot of people in their states care. That isnt necessarily going to change. Its unclear how much its going to change with regard to the regulations that those on the conservative side of the spectrum say are still in place that make this not really an obamacare repeal. It is so, so difficult, which is part of the reason why just doing it in a week was monot th greatest idea, looking back in hindsight. Isnt that the same thing that was said about the house version . There was a lot of reporting that look, you get more conservatives on your side, the moderates are going to drop out, and yet they were able to hammer out something. They were. They were. This is deja vu. Youre exactly right, sderson. As someone whos covered Mitch Mcconnell for so long, it surprises me that he made the same mistake that he made in the house, which is the republican members have promised over and over to their constituents that they were going to repeal obamacare, that at the end of the day they would figure it out. Thats why you heard Mitch Mcconnell sound like President Trump when he came out of the white house saying its complicated. It is complicated. Very complicated. There are a lot of factors in play that really do affect peoples lives and these senators back home. Its unclear how going on, this was supposed to get done before recess. Not everybodys going to be having a town hall meeting, but they are going to be hearing from constituents over the br e break, how that may impact things. It could have a very big negative impact, it could have a positive impact, visavis, the push to get something done. It depends on who the senator is and where they go and what they hear. For every Senate Republican from alaska, like murkowski or from nevada who are hearing from their constituents dont vote for these medicaid cuts, because were going to lose our care. You also have those from conservative states saying, excuse me, you promised me you were going to repeal obamacare, go get to it. Its definitely a mixed bag. More on what was billed as a president ial listening session apparently turned into a gripe session for some senators. Jeff zeleny joins us with more on what happened this afternoon. What do we know about what happened behind closed doors. Reporter its extraordinary that this meeting was happening. The president has taken a handsoff approach to this bill in the senate, so different from the house version. But that is largely by design. Senator mcconnell and others have sort of asked and wished the president to not be deeply involved. He hasnt been until today. But i am told having talked to aides in the room as well as senators in the room that it was largely a freeflowing listening session if you will, specific complaints about medicaid, first and foremost, what it would do to their states. Something like health care, theres no one who knows the specifics of this better than these state senators from their individual states. So the president was not refuting any of these things im told he was listening to complaints. Hes the one who said he wants the senate bill to have more heart. There are several senators taking him up on that and saying we requecannot have big slashes medicaid. We cant sustain these types of numbers of uninsured. So it went like that for about an hour and 15 minutes or so. And john mccain raised concerns about the secretive nature of this. It was a venting session, an attempt to unite republicans. Do you know, do senators who were there feel like progress was made after speaking with the president . Reporter they dont know at this point quite frankly, because they really have different viewpoints. And this is just the republicans were talking about. But they are looking to the president it pour sofor some lep here, particularly the more moderates who again, he wants this bill to be more popular, have more heart, spend more money on it. Of course that causes problems on the other side. What also, you know, were holding out hope here, we know they have to get something. We talked to senator mcconnell after he walked out of the west wing. This is not what he wanted. He wanted this to be done by the end of the week. That of course wasnt going to happen. But he said the option is they have to get something done or work with senator schumer, work with democrats, and of course republicans dont want that. Dana was saying earlier, we dont know if this will get done or not. They do believe the president is more engaged on this. Well see if hes traveling more, you know, exerting more of his influence on those outside groups in particular. So far he is not. All right, jeff zeleny, thanks. Joining us now, david gergen who worked with four president s, and David Axelrod who had an upclose view of the Affordable Care act. David axelrod, you said that obamacare passed, quote, because of the sustained personal commitment of the president to the cause. The details and the process. Do you see that from President Trump, sharing that to get it passed . He certainly ran on it and has been making calls on it. Is that enough . No. I dont think that President Trump has the personal investment in this issue or the knowledge of the issue that barack obama did. He, president obama was into all the details of this law. When he spoke to lawmakers about it, he understood it in an intimate detail. For President Trump, this is important to get a win. And what isnt clear is whether he understands what a win is or what it would look like, and that makes his involvement difficult, because he doesnt quite know where to go with this. I thought it was interesting to hear jeff talk about the fact that some of these moderates are hoping that he can impose on other republicans this bill with more heart. This is sort of what happened in the house. They had to roll one side or the other, and they actually rolled the moderates in the house, and they chose an approach that he later called mean but celebrated at that time. Now the moderates in the senate who have much more influence because of the smaller numbers there, smaller margins there, they want him to roll the conservatives. I just dont know how they get where theyre going. I never want to underestimate Mitch Mcconnell who is a wile e coyote, but it is very hard to see how this additional time, when they go home and hear from their constituents is going to make this work. David gergen, the same thing, again, was said about the house version. People were saying look, you get one side you lose the other side. In the end, the idea of not passing something was too onerous. All these senators have ron un this. I agree. They were under enormous pressure to get something to the senate, get it out of the house, and it was easier to persuade people, look, well fix things in the next round. Now its in the senate, its where the bill shapes up or it fails. I agree with what David Axelrod just said. Can you never underestimate Mitch Mcconnell. He may well pull this off. They have about a week to turn around Public Opinion. I think thats extraordinarily difficult to do under any circumstances. You know, Public Opinion is largely hardened against the house version of this bill. How do you then persuade people, well, you know, the close country cousin is a lot better than the original bill . I think thats extremely difficult to do under any circumstances. But just as importantly, there is no offensive message coming from the democrats about whose vote you can get as opposed to why the country should buy this bill. Absent that argument, i dont see how you sway Public Opinion in the president s direction. The New York Times is reporting that Senate Leaders are preferring to negotiate with the Vice President saying that some of the efforts have been counter productive. One of the things they did that was absolutely ludicrous, the super pac associated with the president started running ads against senator dean heller of nevada who said that he wasnt comfortable with the bill but had indicated he was still in the process, and to go after a member of your own party whos negotiating with the leader at the time was just incredibly destructive as apparently senator mcconnell told the white house. So i talked to Katrina Pearson last hour whos from the super pac who said it brought senator heller back to the table. Yeah, well, i think you cannot, the president has sent two horrible messages in recent weeks. One is when he asked the republicans in the house to walk the plank on the bill that they passed, and then cut them off at the knees by calling it mean. Now senator heller, who is trying to figure out how he navigates this in a state that trump did not win and where he is imperilled for reelection and where his governor, who is a republican, has come out against this bill says i need more. And the answer is that he gets a negative ad campaign from the white houseaffiliated pac. Thats just plain stupid. And so they want to deal with mike pence, who is a more sophisticated politician and understands these basic elements of politics, apparently better than this president or the white house does. More to talk to both of you about. We just had the town hall anger that the senators could be facing whether they pass an obamacare replacement or not. And now one of the president s oldest associates is about ready to testify. And he also appears fired up about it. baby crying fly me to the moon elegant music and let me play bell rings is americas numberone you kmotorcycle insurer. 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Im so unhappy that my testimony will not be in the public but believe it is more important to resolve the question of russian collusion with the Trump Campaign. Back now with david gergen and David Axelrod and robby mook. How big a problem is roger stone for the Trump Administration when it comes to this investigation . Because he says, look, he can explain it all and there was nothing there . I think he could be in very deep trouble. If any of the statements, and, as you said multiple times, he claimed the contact through Julian Assange, he predicted that john podesta would be in the barrel way back in august. If those statements are true, if what he was saying at that time is true, hes in very big trouble and the Trump Campaign is in very big trouble. So im frankly surprised that he is willing to testify. If his story is different than the story he was repeatedly telling before the lelection whn he maybe didnt take this very seriously or any conversations with wikileaks very seriously, his credibility is going to be up in the air, and thats going to urge investigators to look even more closely at this. David gergen, how do you see his testimony in. I think its going to be very important. He gave every hint that he knew in advance things that were coming, and thats going to be territory for the investigators to explore, but its also really interesting, anderson, hes one of a group of politicians on the right, you know, who almost take pleasure in walking through fire and surviving. Theres something about, you know, i dare you. You cant hit me. I can hit you harder. Im smarter, and hell gill ge with this. You cant write that off. I dont know if hes in as much legal trouble as robby suggests, i think hes in political trouble. But wait and see about the legal trouble. Thats very interesting if he was communicating with wikileaks and guccifer 2. 0, that doesnt mean coordinating. All we know is that he has been closely associated with donald trump over the years and was in and out of that campaign. We know that he, you know, publicly boasted of his relationship with assange and guccifer, and we know that he correctly predicted that podesta would, as was mentioned, be in the barrel, which meant presumably, that there would be some leaks. None of that is proof of anything. But it certainly raises a lot of suspicion and one of the benefits of having him under oath in front of a committee would be to ask him questions about that. I will say, david is absolutely right. Anybody whos been around politics over the years knows that ronl ager stone who cut hi teeth as an operative for Richard Nixon in 1972 not only likes walking through fire but gets himself on fire. There may be utility if hes under oath in terms of answering some of the questions youre asking anderson. Robby, stone is also going after members of the committee claiming that some have maligned him. Do statements like that affect the way the committee approaches him, do you think . I think as the other participants here have mentioned, roger stone accusing others of malining him is a pretty rich irony. This is someone whos spent his professional life maligning people on the other side of the partisan spectrum. So i think, as the others were hinting at, i think he wants to put on a show. But i do want to touch back on the seriousness of what were talking about here. If you had someone who was an adviser of the Trump Campaign talking to Julian Assange who is in the ecuadorian embassy, im not a lawyer, i dont know the law, thats really scary, and i dont think any of us want our politics to become Something Like that. We dont want this to become some International Espionage operation where one countrys trying to trick the voters here into thinking one thing and then the campaigns are retaliating through intermediate yaries locp in embassies. I think thats nuts. I think its easy to go into the legal weeds here or get interested in the intrigue and drama, and thats where roger stone wants us to go. Our democracy was attacked. And i hope that the members who take his testimony at the hearing really hold him to account to find out what happened and dont get caught up in the drama here. Robby, you may be bolder, but im odo im older, and let me tell you, i think it would be good for the country if we actually found out what happened. Obviously, there are a lot of disturbing elements to the story relative to roger stone, but we dont know what the bottom line is, how all the connections were made or if the connections are actually there. This is an opportunity to find that out, and i hope the Congress Takes advantage of that. Yeah. But let me just say for a long, long time, theres a long arc from the dirty tricks of the Nixon Administration all the way to the dirty tricks here that people think have been happening on these emails. And roger stone has had a lot of association over the years. And he hasnt been caught and punished legally. So, you know, theres going to be an effort here, sort of like, hes the fox being chased here in this committee hearing. They may come close, but to catch him is hard to do. And theyre going to have to be very smart about it. They just shouldnt assume theyre going to walk in and find a treasure trove thats