Disqualifying him from serving as president. And he could bolt from the Republican Party and run as an independent, and take his supporters with him. And indeed, i want to begin with sam clovis who is Trumps Campaign cochairman and he is joining us via can skype from iowa, and thank you so much for coming on. How are you, sam . Good, don. How are you . Great. Thank you. And first, what can you tell me about donald trump, because he has a scheduled trip to israel, and what do you know about it . I i know that it is a scheduled trip to israel, and i know about as much of that as we want to e reveal at this point time. I think that we will be enjoying the christmas holidays, and then we will likely be heading over to the holy land. And so you foe more, but you just dont want to reveal it . Well, we have some Security Issues involved and we want to be careful about all of that. And can you talk about who you are going to be meeting with and scheduled to meet with any officials there . Well, i think that it would be a long trip for just to show up at the wailing wall. There is a lot more involved in that, but again, i think that for security reasons we will keep that to ourselves for right now. All right. Clearly, this has odo with the foreign policy, so lets talk about it. Who is advising him . Did he consul anybody about his plan for at total and complete ban on muslims entering the country . Well, to characterize it proper properly, don, if you listen to quote exact i will, it is a temporary situation, and the implication is that if he were enforcing the immigration laws at this point in time appropriate l we might have a better handle on this. And i was surprised the commentary from both the democrats and the republicans today, and then what did they handle in the congress . I was little bit taken aback by the fact that the very first order of the Business Today that speaker ryan took the up was to reindividual it is the waiver program, the visa waiver program, so i thought that was kind of ironic in all of this. I think that what we are really looking for here is to have some confidence given to the American People that the United States government has a good idea of who is coming into the country, and why they rm coing into the country, and how long they are going to be staying in this country, and for what purpose are they coming into the country. I think that it is really, when you take a look at the circumstances that we have right now, we are have 525 people kill killed in five separate incidents by isis, and it is clearly not contained, and they and you said that you are surprised, mr. Clovis, if you will pardon me, and you are surprised with this, but it starred out with donald j. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown on muslims entering the United States until our government knows what is going on. And you are surprised that other people are surprised by this . Well, i really am, because what we are look at and there is a great deal of ignorance out there about the process of how people come to this country. We have 38 countries that people show up with a passport and they dont have to have a visa, and they come into the country, and they come in on that, and what do we have right now today in illegal immigration . 40 of the people who are here supposedly illegally in this country are visa of stays. How did they get those visas . We have no way of tracking. We want to go out to track every phone call made in the United States, but we cant figure out a way to track people who can come here on a visa . And we cant do that while upholding the immigration laws already in the country . We cant walk and chew gum all of the time . We have been a advocating the enforcement of the laws on the books right now, and right now, if weer were able to do that, we wouldnt be having this conversation, would we . And let me ask you u this, because some people are saying that we have lieus on the books now that say that certain people, if you are a threat to the United States, that you may not be able to enter this country, and that happens, but talk about the timing, because some people are saying that the timing is suspect, all right, that it came on the day that ted cruz showed a lead in iowa in the monmouth poll, and cnn orc poll, and trump was first there, and was this a calculus, mr. Clovis . No, it was the time to say it. It is the same day that a poll came out to show that he was up 1 13 . We had a ben carson poll a couple of months ago that showed him ahead, and then immediately other polls came out the show mr. Trump ahead, so the polling issue is not driving this. The circumstances on the ground are driving this, and the issue is that we have uncertainty in this country, and the government is not enforcing the immigration laws that we have, and wed like to find out if we can hit the are reset button that Hillary Clinton talks so much about, and find out who they are, with where they are, and where they are coming are, from and find some way to to be able to enforce the laws that exist out there and you said find out who these people are, and you are not talking about all muslims, but what are you saying . Well, i would like to is have us take a look at the screening process that we en poforce the laws that we have, and because of the circumstances in San Bernardino and the other four attacks that isis has had around the world, the fact that they are out there, and we have people coming into the country, and by the way, i could not help but notice in a Previous Program before you came on, don, and im not sure that you had a chance to see it, but someone came on talk about the fact that the visa program is working. Really . It is working . And the young lady who committed the atrocities in San Bernardino, she came over here on a fiance visa, and that is not working very well. Say that again . She came over here on a visa that had a false address, and she was clearly lying i did not see that program and i dont know what you are referring to. This is from the philadelphia u daily news and does this concern you comparing your ka candidate to hitler . Well, i feel very sad about the Philadelphia Inquirer and that is about as much as i need to say about that, if that is the best they can do journalistically, then the pr probably, that is probably their own areas they they have to worry about. We wont be concerned about somebody coming out to characterize us in such a way. It is absolutely specious, and it has no support. And frankly, it is insulting. All right. Thank you, very much, mr. Clovis. Sam clovis joining us tonight. All right. Thank you, don. I want to bring in the director of the center of foreign policy, and also an author on isis. And so, don, i want to start wi with you, and can you explain us what your center does . Yes, i would like to have an opportunity to describe it other than the people who are determined to silence us menmen. It is a group they started with my colleagues in 1988 to essentially support what mr. Reagan, my old boss calls a strategy of peace through strength. It is needed at the moment, because we are pursuing if there is a strategy at all to it one that through hoping that the increasing weakness we will somehow ameliorate our situation, visavis and not exclusively, but among others gjihadiist jihadiists, and our destruction, and for people who want to suppress it meaning it or not are playing into the hands who are in fact our enemies. Do you agree with donald trump that there has to be a toted aal and complete shutdown of the muslims entering the United States . Well, my viewpoint forward, we have enough jihadists at the moment in america, and too many, and the idea of importanting still more willynilly seems to make no sense at all. What exactly one does, and for how long one does it in order to to try to ascertain when more people who are coming from the nations notably those that have a tradition of islamic supreme schism and supremism and also those who have a doctrine of shariah, are planning to engage in a violent what is the brotherhood is calling a stealthy kind of jihad rather than the people who are seek to come here for at bert life or Economic Opportunity or it sounds like a defactor agreement we have to get it sorted. And it sounds like donald trump. Well, we should not be willynilly in importing more jihadists. Any points that you disagree with him . Well, i disagree on the perhaps important distinction, and i argue that there are muslims who do not embrace this doctrine of shariah and at least at the moment are not a threat, and those are the people who u you can probably bring into the country or help become part of the American Dream with less concern. How does one decide that the . Well, this is a point of agreement with donald trump in that our leaders have not made clear how or indeed if they are trying to figure that out, and there is a lot of evidence at the moment that they are not, and that is why so Many Americans are concerned about this. Standby, please, mr. Gaffney. Michael weiss . Well, mr. Gaffneys group put out this poll as a poll that donald trump cited as a sign that we should shutdown immigration of muslims. And mr. Gaffney cite edd a actu poll cited by the pew institution, and let me give you statistics are from that poll. And they found that nearly half of the muslims in the United States do not believe that the Muslim Leaders have done the an adequate job to speak out against the extremism, and so this is a criticism of the Muslim Community and they pound that one percent of the american muslims believe that the quote suicide bombing and other forms of violence are justified to defend muslim in their community, and Muslim Community in america is less than 1 of the entire american population, so it is 1 of 1 . So another interesting statistic are from this poll, 62 of Muslim Americans believes that israel has a right to exist with the allowance of the rights of the palestinian and that is tracking with 67 of the general population, and the broad picture here is that Muslim Americans, the polling data and their opinions about the american politic, and their own faith and the integration of themselves into the body politic into the United States is overwhelmingly encouraging when you particularly contrast that to muslim populations in europe and the middle east. Mr. Gaffney has said that his organization is peace through strength, but it is confused with the peace through conspiracy. This guest has called general pa tray yas and a man who submit ed to the shariah law because the burning of the koran is going to make it more difficult to conduct policy, and he used Grover Norquist who is a right wing and can i please and mr. Gaffney, hi let you are respond, but please dont worry about it i would like how much more of this i have to listen to . And to denounce this man of being a closet islamist, and he is a hysterical propagandist. And i am backing it up with statistical data. Mr. Gaffney . I thought that we were having a discussion about the actual facts here. These are the fact, and i can refer you to your own quotation. If you will permit me to respo respond. And what you are repeating is hectoring of the silencing of the e legitimate factbased discussion of what we are confronting here, and you cited with one pew poll and there is another one in 2013 that talks about 13 of muslims thinking that violence is justified in furtherance of jihad. And this is a selective effort to minimize a problem that frankly most americans think that you are nuts, sir, and not me, because the evidence that jihad, you have written about it in connection with the Islamic State, and the fact is that the Islamic State is here, and seeking to wage violent jihad against us as is al qaeda and hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood and for anybody to suggest that it is his tysterical or conspir is malfeasance. And you have said that the m massacre in norway is and i had knot morgue to do that . And lets not get too far in the weeds are we attacking me or the enemy . And this is what you have said and michael and michael. And frank and lets get back on track here. And i wish we could. And h when we are talking about the poll that donald trump cited i had nothing to do with him citing that poll, but i am delighted that he pointed tout facts in that poll. It was relegitimate scientifically conducted poll, and suggesting otherwise. It is conducted online and it is not meeting the standards. It is a standard applied when the pollsters including those used by this network are trying to sample small population, and particularly small populations concerned about answering questions, and it is way to respectfully does it, and does it accurately . And it does, but with all it is the industry standard, sir, and you dont know what you are talking about. I it does not meet the colleagues and kelly ann he was the you may work there but it does not mean that you mean anymore about the polling than me. And you would not put that poll on the air vu yo put it on the air and we are talk about it right now, and i am suggesting to you that i show you other examples in which you have used the same methodology. We will agree to disagree. And we will agree to look into it further. And it does not meet the cnn standards. And your standards are held to question. And now, lets listen to this, and then we can discuss. This is outrageous coming from someone who wants to assume the highest office in the land and it is reckless and simply unamerican. Donald trump sounds more like a leader of a lynch mob than a great nation like ours. And frank you take great issue with c. A. I. R. And why is that . I take principally great issue with because it is established in federal court to be a Muslim BrotherhoodFront Organization put in business by the franchise in the palestinian areas called hamas, a designated terrorist organization. The fact that nobody, including your guest recognizes that re rereality and suggests it is a conspiracy theer the ri or something to try to obscure it is a scandal. You are talking about the cnn standards and the fact that you have them on and you dont identify them as muslim b brotherhood when we know that the mission, the stated mission of the Muslim Brotherhood in america is to destroy western civilization from within is a real disservice to the viewers. And there is no direct link that they c. A. I. R. Is connected with brotherhood m muslims. I did not have anything to say about c. A. I. R. At all. And no, but you said that and this country does face a threat posed by islamic. And i have come on the show and many other shows to talk about the constricting policy of having sarin gas and ethnic cleansing by the regimes of islam and russia are making the country less safe, and the problem is what anticommunists had in the cold war with Joseph Mccarthy is that crazy people who make accusations against including people of the u. S. Armed services do a just d disservice to a legitimate cause. You need the muslims on our side. They are on the front lines, and served in afghanistan and iraq, and they have been some of the ablist diplomats to send to iraq to the sort out that mess of a country, but what i am hearing here is nothing more than 1930 style isolationism and xenophobia with the grandiose thing that this is the way to solve problem as. Donald trump is a buffoon and every passing day that he says something is a danger to the n country. And you have said, frankk that clearly we lump millions of muslims with terrorists. Of course there is. And that is why i have never done it. Not once. What i want to make clear about what has just been said, this is a moment where we should be hoping that muslims who are not partf of the problem, and muslims who do not embrace shariah, who do not embrace the jihad that it commands and impose it on the rest of us, and empower organizations like c. A. I. R. And others associated with the Muslim Brotherhood and the supreme Islamic State, and that is not who we want to succeed, and that is a point that i would think that we could agree. And thank you for that last point, gentlemen. Join me tomorrow at 10 00 p. M. Eastern because i will have a oneonone sitdown with donald trump. And coming up, i want to ask a leading iman if he fears that trumps comments will cause a backlash for this country . Is there is a precedent for this idea, and we will get some precedents for it. Redid you say 97 . 97 yes. You know, that reminds me of geicos 97 Customer Satisfaction rating. 97 . Helped by geicos fast and friendly claims service. Huh. Oh yeah, baby. Geicos as fast and friendly as it gets. Woo geico. Expect great savings and a whole lot more. At ally bank no branches equalsits a fact. Kind of like mute buttons equal danger. That sound good . Not being on this phone call sounds good. Its not muted. Was that you jason . It was geoffrey it was jason. 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