Both sides and the president s side, the Special Counsel side had a facetoface meeting last week. A rare facetoface meeting after weeks of informal discussions and were told by a source familiar myself, my colleague that Robert MuellersTeam Provided more granularity on the topics they would like to discuss with the president in a possible interview under the umbrella of the firing of james comey as well as the firing of the former National Security adviser Michael Flynn. The specifics include the Attorney GeneralJeff Sessions role in the firing of james comey as well as what the president knew about his National Security adviser Michael Flynn and his conversation he had had with former Russian AmbassadorSergei Kizlyback about the actions. There is possible collusion, possible Obstruction Of Justice and what the president knew. Im told by a source familiar that legal team has taking the
topics and created questions possible questions that could be asked in an interview on a memo. But im told by another source, don that, the president is now vacillating on whether he wants to do an interview with Robert Muellers team. He said that he wants to sit down with him under oath but now as ate pears this russia probe continues to go on and on despite what the president has been told by his lawyers, he sort of changing his posture as we saw over the weekend with him going after Robert Mueller directly by name, don. Pamela brown reporting from the white house. Thank you very much. Here to discuss all of this, our cnn political analyst and Robert Muellers special assistant at the Justice Department and Patrick Heely of the New York Times. So hello to all of you. Michael, i want to get new first. Can President Trumps lawyers control the details of what the Special Counsel wants to talk to trump about . No. They cannot. And, in fact, i think that theWashington Post reporting to day that theyre trying to give a narrative of the White House Events in an effort to circumscribe muellers interview is just really not probable. The reality is that mueller is going to ask the president the questions that mueller feels he needs to ask in order to determine whether or not there was any interference that was known by the president , any collusion or coordination that the president s campaign participated in and then the Obstruction Of Justice and as we saw from the subpoenas last week, possibly financial crimes by the trump organization. And there is fno way that any self respecting prosecutor with respect the effort to circumscribe the interview. President trump said he was looking forward to speak with mueller. He was able to hold off attacking him by name. But how does this outward hostility now affect this investigation . And that is goes to his mindset. And he believes hes Above The Law then if he thinks he doesnt have to answer. He believes that he has for decades has seen himself as someone who has been unfairly targeted either by the media, by enemies in court. This is his mindset. And that if you have, you know, if you have good lawyers, if you have a good team, you can, you know, you can avoid essentially having to answer those questions. What do you call that . Do you call that dilutional , hw you would think its a witchunt . How would he think that people are out to get him if you not necessarily in this but if he has laus lawsuits and didnt pay people or did something wrong, how is that a witch hunt . It is trumps way of branding the enemy. Hes done that in the political sphere when he brands marco rubio as little marco or bob corker. So i think that has been his legal strategy. It is his pr strategy at this point as well. He wants to prejudge this, prejudge this for the public so that whatever bob mueller come out with they are prepared at least if youre a republican or at least if youre inclined to like donald trump, then you would go along with this story of that hes painting. It also, i think to patricks point, is on brand in terms of trump is always the embattled one. He embattled against even people in his own administration, people that hes aint pod. People who are republicans. Hes forever the outcider. That is paranoia, naea. Listen, im not a psychiatrist. I dont play one on tv either. You know, those are your words. But there is you dont have to see that someone is paranoid, you dont have to be a psychiatrist. Right. There is certainly i mean he has, i think, believed as patrick said that people are out to get him because he is, you know, he imagines himself as this great man and this big
target. If youre a great man in a big target, then guess what . At least in his mind then folks want to take him down or after him. Again, just what i said before. So i have to ask you this. This is according to the Washington Post, President Trumps legal team shared documents because theyre worried for his pension for making erroneous claims would be vulnerable in an hours long interview. That is a serious concern, dont you think . It is. If you look at what this investigation has brought so far, the guilty pleas have been about what . Perjury. Making false statements to investigators. You think about rick gates and then if you even go back to president clinton. What was president clinton impeached for . What were the charges . At least partly it was lying under oath about sex can monica lewinsky. So thats what this team around donald trump is looking at and also his very well known pension for making stuff up, making erroneous claims. Some say outright lying. So that is why you see this team
trying to circumscribe and put guardrails up on what hes going to be saying under oath for fear of that he would break into that pattern he often has of just make things up. Youre much kinder than i am. With your phrasing and your words. And not just saying lying. So listen, michael, investigators have told the president s lawyers that when it comes to questions about Michael Flynn and james comey, the Questions Mueller have for President Trump are about what did he do . And what was he thinking when he did it . Lets remember what the president said in his own words. There is about firing comey. Lets watch this. In fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i seld, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story. Its an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. So whether it comes to Michael Flynn and his previously undisclosed meeting with the Russian Ambassador, the
president said i had to Fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the fbi. He plead guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide. How damaging, michael, will these past comments be . Well, i think that what will be the most damaging is if the president repeats under oath stories that mueller does not believe to be true. So all of these tweets now may be fodder for the interview but really it is the under oath interview that matters most in terms of President Trumps legal jeopardy. What we have now, don, is a series of acts. The firing of comey, the hostile workforce with mccabe, the stand down, communications with comey visavis flynn, the loyalty, all those things are little pieces that mueller has to look at in terms of an Obstruction Of Justice mosaic. When you add on to it any lies under oath, then i think that clearly tips the scales as nia reported with respect to an Obstruction Of Justice finding or an abuse of office impeachable offense. So thats what the lawyers are most concerned about. The adding of those little pieces of mosaic plus The Lie Equalling Obstruction or abuse of power and theyre going to do everything they can to protect the president. But in the end, the power of the grand jury will prevail and the president will have to ask im sorry, i cant say it in english, hell have to answer questions hell be asked under oath. That will determine the legal situation. Its monday. You need to warm up. By wednesday youll be perfectly fine. Thank you all. I appreciate it. When we come back, 50 million facebook profiles access, data of course sesed by
the firm hired by the Trump Campaign. Im going to talk to the person that blew the whistle on Cambridge Analytica. Its ok that everyone ignores me while i drive. Its fine. Because i get a Safe Driving Bonus check every six months im accident free. And i dont share it with mom right, mom . Righttt. Safe driving bonus checks. Only from allstate. Switching to allstate is worth it. Were drowning in information. Where, in all of this, is the stuff that matters . The stakes are so high, your finances, your future. How do you solve this . You dont. You partner with a firm that advises governments and the fortune 500, and, can deliver insight person to person, on what matters to you. Morgan stanley. We the people who are Better Together than we are alone. Are unstoppable. Welcome to the entirely new expedition. Tonight were hearing from Christopher Wiley. In the interview youre about to watch, he tells me about his work at the company with close ties to the Trump Campaign, a company now accused of using the
private data of tens of millions of facebook users to directly target potential american voters. How closely tied to the Trump Campaign is Cambridge Analytica . People at the highest levels and those close to the president were involved in bringing the data company onboard. The president s soninlaw and the Digital Campaign direct for for president Trum Hop Is Kushtly leading the Reelection Campaign were both involved in the hiring. Cambridge analytica was run with the help of steve bannon. He was a Trump Campaign ceo who went on to become chief white house strategist and Christopher Wiley says Trump Campaign manager Corey Lewandowski was meeting with Cambridge Analytica even before trump announced his candidacy. So all of there is worth keeping in mind as you hear what whistleblower Christopher Wileysays was happening at Cambridge Analytica. Watch this. Joining me is a former Research Director who blew the whistle on the firm. Thank you so much for joining us. Are you doing okay . Thanks for having me. Its been a long day. But im okay. You describe what you billed as psycho logical warfare. A psychological warfare weapon. Something you say steve bannon wanted. The ability to play with the psychology of an entire country. How did that work . Talk to us about that. Yeah. So steve came to scl because he believes in something called the breitbart doctrine. In order to change politics you first have to change culture because politics is down stream from culture. And in order to fight a culture war, you need an arsenal of Information Weapons. And who better to go to than a company like scl which is a military contractor based in the
uk to help set up those Information Weapons. And so what we worked on at scl and later at Cambridge Analytica is Data Harvesting Programs where we pull data from users of apps and all the Friend Networks and run that data through algorithms that can profile the psychological attributes so we would know what information we need to feed to Online Platforms o to exploitmental vulnerabilities that are algorithms showed they had. This goes beyond just sort of Programming Advertisement toward a certain group. Because you told us you can tell something about people based on things like whether they like Game Of Thrones or country music. What can you tell . Yeah. So, you know, i think its easiest to think about when you go on a date, for example. The questions that you ask on a date, right . You ask what music do you like . What kind of movies do you
watch . Do you do any sports . We ask those questions because they reveal little bits about ourselves, about our personalities and who we are. Cambridge analytica says none of the data was used in services to the Trump Campaign s that true, christopher . Well, let me be clear. I didnt work on the Trump Campaign. I cant speak to the Trump Campaign. But what i do know is that this data was, you know, we spent, you know, almost a Million Dollars on just harvesting this data alone. And it was this data that became the foundation of the company because this is what we used to build the algorithms that then were that actually became the basis of the company itself. So the question that i would have is what happens to the foundation of your company if you didnt indeed use it on the Trump Campaign. What were you using then . Because that was the basis of your company, right . Thats how the company started. Yeah. There was no data before that point. So we went from no data to harvesting all of this data off of facebook and then combining it with all this Consumer Data Sets at the behest of Steve Ba Bannon . Yeah. The company got funded in the spring of 2014 and he wanted to be able to have functioning program in time for the mid terms. So we had sort of a steve bannon and a Billionaire Breathing down our necks saying where is the data . Where is the algorithms and our Information Weapons . And thats where Alex Ander Kogan came along from cambridge who offered the use of this app that had special permissions granted by facebook to pull data not only from the app user but from all of the friends of that user and that meant that for one user were collecting 200, 300
friends data and that scaled really quickly. So what im trying to say is bannon came n he wanted this information. This is you said at the behest of a millionaire which is Robert Mercer as well. Right. Breathing down your throat. And so bannon goes to work for the Trump Campaign. Where does all this information go . It had to go somewhere. Thats the basis of your company. Well, yeah. I mean i dont how else did they build the algorithms then . What, you know, what did they use . Yeah. So the facebook data was integral. I want to get it straight. Integral to Cambridge Analytica, correct . Yes. It was the basis of the first of algorithms that the company built. Okay. Listen, according to the fec reports, trump came pain paid them nearly 6 million between july 2016 and december of 2016. What did the Trump Campaign think cambridge could offer . What were the goal, do you know . Well, very soon after i left i know that Alex Andander Nix W going to meet with lewandowski before trump announced hes with running and when they were still working for ted cruz. I dont know why they had that meeting. You have to ask Cambridge Analytica they were pitching. Why were they talking to donald trump before he even announced . How did they know he was run brg he even announced and what is it if it wasnt for this data and fit wasnt for the algorithms, what it is youre pitching and using . Those are good questions. More about Corey Lewandowski in a moment. You also say Cambridge Analytica was testing trumps slogans in 2014, terms that seemed to let me get the question out. Parted pack The Deep State and build that wall. Go ahead. So we were Testing Messages