Live with breaking news. Robert mueller told President Trumps toerps that he remains under investigation but is not criminally currently a criminal target. That is according to the Washington Post which also reports that some of the president s advisers are worried he could be baited into an interthat could land him in hot water. I want bring in michael stelden. Robert muellers form assistant to the Justice Department and Michael Moore. Gentlemen, good evening. Thanks for joining us. Michael zeldin. Walk us through why its significant and what it means. A subject of a grand jury investigation is defined in the u. S. Attorneys manual as a person as to whom the grand jury has an interest. Its not an outside witness to an event. Its a person who is a participant in the underlying activities of the grand jurys investigation. Different from a target, really putative defendant. The grand jury has made a conclusion they committed a crime and is going to jail for it. Logically the president was always a subject of the investigation as to both the possibility of coordination between his campaign and outside forces and as to obstruction once flynn and comey and others were fired and events from that were set in motion. I dont think its breaking news from the standpoint of a mueller attorney giving the president a description of himself as a subject. That to me is what he always was logically and well see whether he my grates from being a subject to a target as the investigation evolves or remains the subject which will be best for him. Thank you. So no one you dont think its breaking news no one should rest easy. This is just where they are in the investigation now. Thats right. Okay. My view is that the life of the investigation at this point the president of the United States is a person as to whom the grand jury has an interest and theyre taking his testimony. Michael moore why would the team telegroove to the president s lawyers this information. Theyve been trying to negotiate a interview with the president for some time. Thats the missing link. But there are plenty of times people who are subjects of an investigation talk their way into becoming targets of an investigation. My guess is even if you think about today, mr. Van der zwaan who was sentenced today. At the time he gave you the interview ill bet you he was not a target. By the time he finished the interview he was a target. Today he was a convicted felon. So you know, i dont put a lot of stock i think it would be foolish for a lawyer to represent to his or her client that simply because at this time or currently i think as those phrases are used in the discussions what were hearing from the discussions about the mueller disclosure, you know, that doesnt give you a lot of comfort. I wouldnt rest easy. Id be thinking about the advice i gave my client. Do you think theyre trying to soften him up right now that maybe he will come in . Because he loves to say im not a subject of the investigation. Letter when come he was furious when comey wouldnt say publicly he wasnt under investigation. Do you think theyre trying to soften him up. Think about this too. What were hearing. Were hearing sources with the discussion are saying this. Muellers team has been steadfast in not leaking. Air tight. Thats right. We dont know where the individuals are. My belief is its not from muellers team. What else would you tell your boss who wants to be told, please tell me im not a target. Guess what youre not a target. Youre just a subject. I dont put a lot of confidence i wouldnt have a lot of comfort in those preparations. Okay. May i just add one thing to that. Yeah. I agree with Michael Moore. The issue though, too, is that typically prosecutors inform persons about whom theyre going to gather evidence or take an interview from if they are a target. There is usually an affirmative obligation to say if you are a target. Saying you are not a target is again standard prosecutorial blocking and tackling. If you are bringing them into the grand jury. Especially. Thats right. So i think those things may be may be down the road. Corrupt intent, the article talked about a corrupt intent here. Because according to the report mueller is pushing hard to interview President Trump to determine if the president had any corrupt intent. So what how is that determined, Michael Moore . Kidding. Go ahead, Michael Moore. Well, i mean, clearly they are talking about what was his state of mind at the time he was fired. Theyll go back through the rosenstein memo prepared after the fact. He is talking to him about the interview that took place on Network Television where he said, look, i got rid of jim comey because of the russia thing. Which i think is pretty damning evidence in and of itself. He will talk to him about statements made in the oval office to the russian delegation when they were there and the disparaging comments about the former director of the fbi. Those things will come to play. But, again, a lot of this these prosecutors are trained interviewers. And these investigators, agents that they work with are trained interviewers. Sometimes you get somebody in the room and talking to them you keep just keep drawing information out. Thats the danger for trump. He likes for people to believe him. He likes to feel like the smartest man in the room. If he gets in the room with bob mueller he is not the smartest man in the room. To that point michael zeldins team the trumps attorneys over recent months they are seeking to learn more about the firings of comey and the National Security adviser Michael Flynn and last year and the president s efforts to get attorney general Jeff Sessions to resign. What does that tell you . Is that obstruction . Are they going foorz obstruction ever justice. The two questions you asked backtoback go hand in glove. Corrupt intent is what they would need to establish in order to bring a case unthe obstruction of justice or even the abuse of office provisions for high crimes and misdemeanors. They are looking at the various pieces of the puzzle of acts that the president committed to determine whether when he undertook those dsh whether he did so with krubt intent, meaning he could be carb if a president of the United States is able to be indicted he can be indicted or if the congress so were inclined to bring articles of impeachment. So those things fit together. You have to act with corrupt intent to be charged with vouks of justice or probably high crimes and misdemeanors. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it. Good to see you don. You as well lets bring in congressman eric swalwell, a california democrat on the judiciary committees good to see you thanks for coming on. Thank you don. Muellers it team trumps attorneys that they want more information about the firing of flynn and comey. As well as getting sessions to resign. Knowing what you know from the House Intelligence Committee investigation, do you think the president s testimony would fill in some of the holes in your committees findings . Don, first let me say, you cnn covered earlier tonight the san bruno shooting. I want to thank the First Responders and bra praying for the victims there. Absolutely. Tour question, don, the president would serve the country by sitting down and coming clean with bob mueller. And innocent people cooperate. Guilty people screw around try and cover up, bury the evidence. And he should actually just follow his own advice, which was when he said back in september of 2016, only the mob takes the fifth amendment. Prove to america, mr. President that you are not running the white house like a mobster. And cooperate with bob mueller and so we can move on and make sure the president acted accordingly in what he did with james comey, what he tried to do with bob mueller and the pressure he puts every day on his attorney general. Representative we are learning late today that the deputy a. G. Picked prosecutor ed ocallahan to oversee the russia investigation at the Justice Department. Does his appointment indicate anything about the scope of the investigation to you. It shows me this team is moving expeditiously. Doing all they can, not under a time table but understanding that there is, you know, a public sentiment out there to get answers on the conduct that is in question. The best thing we can do, though, is to allow them to follow the evidence. Congress could pass because there is participate Bipartisan Legislation out there right now legislation that would cement bob muellers role and prevent him from being fired without cause. I think that sort of certainty would allow the prosecutors and agents to do all they need to to tell the American People whether there was a conspiracy to work with the russians, whether Money Laundering oranged with the Trump Organization and whether the president acted with krubt intent in a consciousness of guilt we he tried to fire the investigators. Does anyone ever when you guys if all the people if there is nothing happening, nothing is going on im getting to van der zwaan because he is the first person sentenced. If nothing is going on which are so many people lying to mueller. You know, carbness of guilt. I saw it as a former prosecutor. Every juror in america is told if a witness makes a false statement to the police in an investigation, that you can conclude that they did that because they were aware of their own guilty conduct. Again, its lodge pick follows that innocent people cooperate. Guilty people try and cover it up or disguise conduct. With that said, lets talk about alex van der zwaan, the first person sentenced in the russia investigation. He worked with manafort and gates. He admitted to lying covering up conversations with gates, failing to turn over emails to muellers team back in february. Are we expected to learn more about the contents of those emails, do you think. There is a lot we dont know. What we know is how doggedly the mueller team is tracking down a lot of the b. S. Stories frankly. We saw it with george papadopoulos. Thats the canary in the coal mine. He lied. They fd interim february. He lied in july they pulled him off a plane. They subpoenaed facebook and skype logs. He came around and now he is a cooping witness. As long as theyre able to follow the evidence, subpoena bank records, Communications Records and go back at witnesses, as you just mentioned are so willing to lie through their teeth to protect the president president. Thats the way to the truth. Thats not what we did on the house intelligence investigation we took people at their word and the American People have an incomplete and inaccurate version of the what happened. I hope the mueller team will follow all the evidence. We are seeing the first documents that which acknowledge that mueller was looking into ails that is former Trump Campaign manager manafort committed a crime by colluding with the russian government officials in the 2016 election. What other insights into the investigation do they show . Do you think does this show . It shois, don, there was a willingness and eagerness on the Trump Campaign part to receive and work with to receive information from and work with the russians. Don, again, whether its collusion or not, thats bob muleary job. But i tell you the evidence we have seen publicly that the russians sought to offer the trump Team Information on hillary clinton. The trump team did everything they could to receive it. Once it was disseminated to the public they really turned it up and amplified the proceeds of the hacking. The candidate even invited the russians to conduct further hacking. To me, i dont know what you call it when you invite it, receive it, amplify it, encourage it and then you start to pay back the russians through actions once you take office. But to me its not american. Certainly doesnt look right. Representative swalwell thank you. My pleasure. When we come back President Trump wetting up a storm and slamming enemy was retiric berry we are for the used to hearing from the president. But is it all about keeping the conservative media on his side as the Mueller Investigation heats up . Able upgrade in the aisle without starting any conversations or paying any upcharges. What can i say . Control suits me. Go national. Go like a pro. The president is returning to his favorite theme slamming enemies on twitter. But there may be more going on than meets the eye. I want to bring in mike murphy, always a pleasure to have you. Hope you had a Great Holiday thank you for joining us. Thank you. Listen, mike, the last few days President Trump has lashed out at enemies on twitter more than we are used to. He is targeting amaze within exacts fake news, immigrants, honduras, nafta, the fbi and Justice Department. What do you think is prompting the president to take this sharp swing to the right. Im worrying about sore president ial finger was the avalanche of tweeting. My suspicion sits the combination of things. He tweets as therapy. Things irritate him. Part of it is he reminds me of the music sfar who had a bunch of hits a while back and things are slow so he does the new material and notices the front row of the concert fall is falling asleep and goes back to the hits. He is feeling heat, particularly in the conservative world over the size of the spending and the budget deal which i think is becoming more and more uncomfortable with after doing it. He doesnt like the criticism of the progressional Movement Conservatives ann coulter who has been baying the moon about him. He is trying to stir things up with the golden oldies. Could it also be about rally be conservatives or the conservative media to his defense if needs them for the Mueller Investigation . Well, i think, you know being a reality tv star donald trump knows the first rule of that kind of Television Programming or the Home Shopping network for that matter, which is when it doubt cut to a new conflict or new product. Whenever the mueller thing heats up or goes the wrong way he throws a smoke bomb and moves the controversy to another issue that he thinks cut for him, attacking the media, immigrants, attacking somebody. Because i think his bible is conflict sells. So starting with easter he has been on the rampage. And i think he is feeling neurotic about the core voters. Thats all he has. What you have to remember is he never left the republican primary. He doesnt have any swing voters or democrats. He is down to the base and twitchy about it. When he feels through seeing fox news or a commentator criticizing him he reacts. This is his way to tell the 30 im still your guy and saying the same stuff. He could like us talking about him. It could all be ego. And probably is. I think the cruellest think the media could do not say anything about him for a week. He would probably resign. You know how many times ive said that process if we stop talking about him he would lose it. You mentioned the democrats. Im glad you did. Because they are raising record amounts of money in red states. Beto orourke has raised money in texas. Randy briech has raise 2 million in the long quarter. They are a long shot to unseat cruz and ryan. But you are seeing sign of surge in this election on the democratic side. There is energy there. One of the things the internet has done is democratize fund raising. Its easier for a candidate running for congress to raise National Money if you have a hook from low dollar donors. Thats really what digital fund raising does for you. We dont know whats happening in the midterms. But the signs are there of tremendous democratic energy. You see it in the turn out in the special elections. You see it in the number of candidates running. And now you see it in Grass Roots Fund raising across the board. I dont know there is a democratic wave. But all the early conditions that would accompany a democratic wave, intense city turnout, interest from younger voters, its all there. This is another thing you put in the pile of evidence that a lot of democratic pressure is building. If you look at the president s polling numbers he has the worst numbers 18 months in of any president in the history of polling. Thats some mean accomplishment there. There has to be a democratic reaction to it. The question is will we be in the same situation in the midterms in november. Well, if the i think the economy a lot of that depends on the economy, right . And well see. I got to get to othership china slapping the 3 billion of tariffs on 120 u. S. Products in retaliation to the president s tariffs. I want to you look at this. China revenge move so far targeted products made in the heartland states which of course is home to many trump voters. And what point do you think theyll push back against in . Or will they . Well this is interesting. In some whiches i think its the biggest most material story of today in politics. Which is this it looks like the trade skirmish is cranking its way to a trade war. These never turn out well. We have economic history to prove that. Take agricultural. Soybean and pork was of the tarj largest producing states, nine of them are republican. Including iowa. Site of the early caucuses. Metal bending states like michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, the states the president was able to, franklied find his victory from narrowly are being targeted. If in escalates, American Consumers are paying more. The free trade Republican Party is now stand for protectionism which is disturbing a lot of us and cost american jobs. So its bad for the country, forget the politics if it spirals it will hurt the president. How much time do w