Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight With Don Lemon 20190727 : v

CNNW CNN Tonight With Don Lemon July 27, 2019

Youre classy. You are. I like it. Look, we know whats going on here, right . They have two points of resistance. The first one is inhouse. The second one is out of house. And theyre playing hedge. Im saying this is isnt a situation to play. Because the ultimate commodity, the currency here is the integrity of your purpose. I couldnt agree more. They say democracy is not a spectator sport, but its not supposed to be a game. I think the American People are getting tired of being pawns. Theyre wondering if its actually moving across. It is going to be a checkmate . This entire thing is really confusing. Its frustrating. Its exhausting. Were going to try to clear it up tonight. They got the right person doing it. Laura coates, ill look forward to watching. Have a great night. This is cnn tonight. Im laura coates sitting in for don lemon. And democrats are taking a big step towards impeachment tonight. The House Judiciary Committee suing in federal court to get that secret grand jury material from Robert Muellers report. Arguing they actually need it because they are, quote, investigating whether to recommend articles of impeachment. A significant development. Also planning to enforce, by the way, the Committee Subpoena of former white House Counsel don mcgahn. Remember, he defied that subpoena way back in may on orders of the white house. He may now be the big kahuna witness in all this in another hearing. That as 101 House Democrats and 1 independent have come out in support of an impeachment inquiry, which is why the president is steamed tonight. I think its a disgrace, what the democrats are doing. I watch bob mueller, and they have nothing. There is no collusion, no obstruction, they have nothing. Its a disgrace. We want to find out what happened with the last democrat president. Lets look into obama the way theyve looked at me. From day one, theyve looked into everything that weve done. They could look into the book deal president obama made. Lets subpoena all of his records. The book that obama made . Well, that is deflection at its finest. Youre calling for an investigation the president obama for his book deal . Its odd the man who claims to be the author of the art of the deal. We know he had a ghost writer, would have a problem with his predecessors book deal. Well, maybe its not so odd. And speaking of former president obama, 148 African Americans who served in his administration have written a brandnew oped, and its in the Washington Post tonight. The title . We are African Americans, we are patriots, and we refuse to sit idly by. Here is a quote from that oped. We stand with congresswomen ilhan omar, alexandria ocasiocortez, Ayanna Pressley and rashida tlaib, as well as all those currently under attack by President Trump, along with his supporters and his enablers who feel deputized to decide who belongs here and who does not. There is truly nothing more unamerican than calling on fellow citizens to leave our country by citing their immigrant roots or ancestry or their unwillingness to sit in quiet obedience while democracy is being undermined. Well talk more about that in a moment. But the thing the president is really steaming about tonight, the reason he is trying to deflect and distract with his attacks on those four congresswomen of color, and now with attacks on president obama and his book deal, well, its all because of the i word, impeachment. Judiciary chairman nadler trying to thread a very fine needle saying what his committee is doing is in effect an impeachment inquiry. Youre saying theres no difference between what youre doing now and an impeachment inquiry, correct . In effect. We are investigating all of this and yes going to see what remedies we can recommend, including the possibility of articles of impeachment. Were not limited to that, but thats very much the possibility as a result of what were doing. In effect . The possibility . Well this that, as Speaker Nancy Pelosi is saying this. We wont proceed when we have what we need to proceed. Not one day sooner. The decision will be made in a timely fashion. This isnt endless. When we have the best strongest possible case, and thats not endless. It may be endless in terms of violations of the law that the president is engaged in, but thats what i say to you. But as far as other members of the committee are concerned, the impeachment investigation has already begun. This is an impeachment investigation. We are now officially entering into an examination of whether or not to recommend the articles of impeachment. So we have crossed a threshold. I would say we are in an impeachment investigation. That was congressman jamie raskin, and he joins me now. How you doing tonight . How are you, congressman . Im glad youre joining the program tonight. I want you clarify so much for us today, so thank you. You know, your committee is suing thank you for having me. Im glad youre here. Im glad youre here. Your committee is suing to obtain the grand jury material and youre saying were in impeachment investigation. So why just formally launch it . Were talking about is this semantics . Is this a method somehow to the distinction . Well, we were just confronted with overwhelming evidence of president ial obstruction of justice, ten different episodes and this astonishing unprecedented occurrence of a president ial candidate openly welcoming Foreign Government support in the middle of a president ial campaign. If this is not impeachable i dont know what is. The president is upset about it. He should be upset with the founding fathers. They are the ones who built four different provisions mentioning impeachment into the constitution, not just in article i for congress, but in article 2 right after hes told his law is to cake what the laws are faithfully executed. If he doesnt he can be impeached. Like treason and bribery. And now obstruction of justice, which has been validated by history to be on the same par with bribery and treason. So why is there confusion for people . Why is it not the same statement . Its an impeachment inquiry. Its an investigation. Why is there a back and forth about what to call it . Are we having the wrong focus here . Well, yeah, i think people shouldnt get hung up on the semantics of it. The constitution doesnt have a name for probe or investigation. Or inquiry. There is no federal law that require you give it a particular name, and its not in the house rules that it has a particular name or procedure. It can either arise from the floor and be sent to the house for consideration and then sent back as articles, or can arise from the committee itself. I think people are most familiar from the last president ial impeachment where it was sent from the floor, but there have been lots of impeachments, especially a lot of judicial impeachments. I couldnt get hung up either on the nomenclature or else on the process. Weve got the chair of our committee and the armying majority of the democrats on the committee saying we are in an impeachment investigation. Were being bombarded and buffeted by all of the president s high crimes and misdemeanors. What we need to do is put it together to tell a coherent narrative to the American People. I think thats really about a president who has converted the government of the United States into a money making operation for himself, for his business, for his family and his friends, and it now pervades the entire executive branch of government. So why is there a focus right now on the grand jury material . I know part of it is about don mcgahn and his statements and getting him to testify as well. Do you think there is a smoking gun, something compelling in there that is actually going to facilitate that discussion on impeachment as the only option . I think we have to complete the investigation of what took place with all of the obstruction of justice. Don mcgahn of course was the white house lawyer who was told by donald trump to go out and fire the special counsel in order to sabotage muellers investigation. And he refused to do so. That was the only thing that remotely saved donald trump from the obviousness of the actions. But as mueller emphasized in the hearing this week, its obstruction of justice once you try to interfere with an ongoing legal proceeding, once you try to coach a witness or to scare or intimidate a witness or to somehow persuade a witness. All of those things are accomplished, completed crimes, even if somebody saves you from, you know, your own terrible instincts. Some people did. G but again, thats only an image. As matter of law, he was not saved. One of the concerns people have after the mueller hearing is the idea its all in the report already. Why is it necessary . Help me understand why its necessary to hear from don mcgahn to further get all of this evidence in the record . Well, its the same reason that congress has always insisted on getting the underlying materials from special counsels or independent counsels in the past. Its one thing to get a generalized summary of events. Its another to get witnesses in their own words telling you precisely what happened. And of course thats what makes things come alive for members of congress and for the public. Were a democracy. The people govern here and they want to know what happened. They want to give due process to the president , but they also want to know precisely whats been taking place against the people of the country. So we need to know this in detail, and weve got add some vividness to the story so people understand it. They dont want a game of telephone. They want it directly. The American People have responsibility to do is the idea of voting. You have to clock ahead. 2020 election is upon us. Yes. In a little more than a year. Are you afraid theres going to be a deadline that you did not anticipate that will run out the clock on the idea of even inquiring about this process . Well, sure. But think of it this way. In america theres always another election. Its built into the election that we have house of representatives election every two years. Which tells you that the founders wanted the house of representatives where impeachment investigations and articles arise to be very closely in tune with public sentiment and public opinion. And then we elect president s every foyer years there is always another election around the corner, and still the founders insisted that there be impeachment as a weapon of last defense of the peoples rights and the constitution against a president who insist upon acting like a king and trampling the rule of law. This was really essential to the founders. Remember, they rebelled against centuries of monarchy, of dictatorship, and were living in an age of resurgent authoritarianism and dictat dictatorship all over the world. Whether its putin in russia or duterte in the philippines or el sisi in egypt. These are strong men dictators who want to control their society. In authoritarian fashion. Were getting the attack on free press and election. Attempt to extinguish peoples voting rights, scapegoating people. All of those are trademark tactics of authoritarian despots all around the world, and its happening rights here in america. We have to use the means given to us by our founders. We need every kid, every citizen to rediscover the constitution of the United States. Go and find those impeachment clauses tonight. There is no deadline on democracy. You proved that point. Thank you. We look forward to hearing more from you. Thank you so much. I want to bring in max boot, author of the corrosion of conservatism. And michael dantoni. I want your reaction from what we just heard from congressman raskin. Democrats are essentially starting an impeachment inquiry without formally calling it that. What do you think about the word play . Well, i think theyre trying to split the difference because there is a difference of opinion between chairman jerry nadler, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee and Speaker Nancy Pelosi, because Speaker Pelosi is very concerned about her majority. She doesnt want to force members who won elections in purple districts to take a tough vote which she fears could come back to haunt them and possibly cost the democrats their majority next year, whereas chairman nadler is more focused on the right and wrong of the situation. Theres no question in my mind on the merit, President Trump deserves to be impeached. He violated the law and failed to uphold the oath to preserve, protect and defend the constitution. But theres this big gap between how do you proceed from this point when Everybody Knows that the votes are not going to be there in the senate to remove President Trump from office and this whole procedure could backfire. So basically what i see happening is nadler is moving forward with the impeachment through the back door. Without forcing all the members of congress to take a tough vote. And as we know theres about 100 members of congress in favor, most of the Democratic Caucus is not. So what that suggests to me is they will move ahead with the investigation, but impeachment i think still remains very unlikely. So listen to what chairman nadler had to say today, and i want to get your reaction to this. I believe the hearing with director mueller was an inflection point. We are considering the malfeasance of the president. We are considering what remedies we can do, including the possibility of articles of impeachment. So nadler is saying that, look, articles of impeachment are possible. He is looking maybe to don mcgahn. Are we talking about don mcgahn being the new john dean here . I think thats the hope. The lawsuits we saw too, the grand jury lawsuit and the filing early next week to compel don mcgahn are going to be so crucial. Really for two reasons. Theyre going to force the democrats to take a position. Where are you on impeachment . Can we please make a plea to everybody. Please bring back plain language. Plain english. Youre just done already. You Want Congress to act and also be clear . Have you been in this country long . Heaven forbid. Right. We have seen so many times if you leave any wiggle room or gray area, donald trump and in some cases bill barr will jump in and spin. I think democrats need to learn a lesson here. You need to be clear. Theyll have to go on record in court and say judges will ask. Where are you . Is this an inquiry . Do you have a resolution . And the more formal it is, the stronger their hand will be in court. And regarding mcgahn, this is all or nothing with respect to these witnesses, not just mcgahn. Wherever that goes is where the ruling is going to go on hope hicks and lewandowski and sessions. If the democrats lose on mcgahn, theyre going to have no second act here. I want to hear from you after this break. Youre smiling over there. Michael, hold your thought. Well keep going with this conversation after a quick break. Stop by Bass Pro Shops and cabelas for great deals during our archery gear up sale. All the latest gear from archerys top brands. And huge savings so you can stock up for the season. Bass pro shops and cabelas. Your adventure starts here. Hey, who are you . Oh, hey jeff, im a car thief. What . im here to steal your car because, well, thats my job. What . What . . What . laughing what . . What . what . [crash] what . haha, it happens. And if youve got cutrate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. So get allstate. And be better protected from mayhem. Like me. Im back with max boot, and elie honig and michael dantonio. I want to start with you, michael. Its very obvious that the president s feathers are a little bit ruffled here. They sure are. You know, i was reminded of the president being on saturday night live and dressing up like a chicken. You know, this is he wanted to paint this as a good week for him, but think about the difference between Robert Mueller and donald trump. Robert mueller is the u. S. Marine, the cary grant kind of hero. He is reticent, uncontained, he is always hysterical. He is always upset. He is always angry. There is such a contrast between these two men. One is a public servant. The other believes it should serve him. I dont think mueller lost. I think over time people are going to say whoa, pull back a moment, con pair and contrast. Lets hear what trump sounded like. You called him a wet hen. I want to hear what one sounds like here. Hold on. All they want to do is impede. They want to investigate. They want to go fishing. And i watched bob mule. And they have nothing. There is no collusion. There is no obstruction. They have nothing. Its a disgrace. So the president , max, is talking about people who were impeding and the word disgrace was used there. Im going to put the irony aside for a second, max, and ask you whats your reaction to the president s reaction. Well, its kind of typical donald trump. I mean, it didnt matter what was happening. He is going to claim a victory anyway. After the Mueller Report came out, which was the most damning indictment of a sitting president i think weve ever seen from any special counsel in u. S. History, listing these tenets of obstruction of justice and laying out how donald trump welcomed foreign interference in our elections. Donald trump said he was exonerated, that everything was great. He was completely cleared, all the same time he was claiming Robert Mueller was running a witch hunt. He is very confused about whether mueller is a witch hunter or an exonerater. Its hard to be both. Now you saw that same confusion in spades this week after the mueller testimony where again completely predictably trump claims vindication, which has not occurred to any fairminded american watching these proceedings, except in a very narrow sense in terms of kind of the optics of it and the political impact, because there has been this apathy towards impeachment on the part of the american public, and democrats were hoping that mueller could break through that apathy and sadly, i dont think he has done, that at least based on the polls that weve seen this week. There is still widespread opposition Going Forward

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