Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight With Don Lemon 20191127 : v

Walks like a duck, it is a duck. You have eyes, you haveers, you have observational skills. Weve got a great panel to talk about why precise will this might be an achilles heel. The obvious turn of events here. You got to wonder how much longer are people honestly going to be able to say its pure coincidence, right . Also they kept complaining about the process. Now they have more rights than clinton ever had. Still at this basic investigatory basic phase, and theyre not going to take the option . Perfect show for you tonight. Thank you. Thank you for being a part of this experience in my green python dress. This is cnn tonight. Im laura coates sitting in for don lemon. Were learning a whole lot more tonight about the shakedown on ukraine and how all these dots are now connecting. The New York Times reporting that the president already knew about the whistleblower complaint, that complaint that set off the impeachment inquiry, before he ever released the aid to ukraine. Thats right around the time the president told Ambassador Gordon Sondland there was no quid pro quo, using that term, before people started using that phrase even publicly. Its in one of his favorite talking points ever since. He brought it up at his Campaign Rally in florida this evening. The crowd chanting no quid pro quo along with him. I want nothing. This is a quote. I want no quid pro quo. I want nothing. Were also getting brandnew information tonight from neverbeforeseen transcripts including this new detail. The white house never actually asked its own Budget Office about other countries contributing aid to ukraine until september, which doesnt exactly jive with the president s claims that he held up the aid because he wanted other countries to pony up. Well tell you what else is in those transcripts in a moment. Youve got to wonder with all this new information still coming out, would it be smart for democrats to slow down and see where all of this takes us . That as the House Judiciary Committee is taking over and holding its first hearing next wednesday. And its calling the president s bluff here, inviting him and his lawyers to participate and to question witnesses. You remember thats been an obsession for the president and his defenders, demanding to be able to question witnesses. A Senior Administration official telling cnn that the idea is under consideration and, quote, likely to come up for discussion during the president s trip to florida for thanksgiving. Ill bet it will. Listen to this from the president tonight. Theyre pushing that impeachment witch hunt, and a lot of bad things are happening to them because you see whats happening in the polls . Everybody said thats really bullshit. Not exactly president ial language, we know. And frankly the fact is half of the American People think the president should be impeached and removed from office. You see it right there in the new cnn poll. That comes on the day First Lady Melania Trump was booed by an audience of mostly middle and High School Students at a youth opioid summit in baltimore, a mix of boos and cheers as the first lady finished her speech and left the stage. And she did respond later that everyones entitled to their opinion, but lets remember this this is baltimore, the city the president called, quote, a disgusting rat and rodentinfested mess and going on to tweet, quote, no human being would want to live there. So is it really any surprise that civility is losing out . Weve got a lot of news on impeachment tonight. Joining me now, frank bruni, philip bump, and elie honig. Im glad youre all here right now. Elie, i got to start with you here because this new New York Times reporting is giving us a time line that essentially says the jig is up, that you didnt just coincidentally insert the words quid pro quo in a conversation with Gordon Sondland, did he . So much for no quid pro quo. So much for i want nothing. I think five days ago donald trump seemed to think that was the sul ver bullet defense, game over. He just said it in the rally. Remember, adam schiff said he only said that after he got caught. Now it seems were getting confirmation of that. That kind of denial after the fact carries no weight. If anything, it tends to be incriminating. I mean after the fact conversations here, frank, the idea of saying, hold on, lets figure out a way to make what has happened look good. Listen to what Ambassador Gordon Sondland had to say. I finally called the president. I believe it was on the 9th of september. I cant find the records, and they wont provide them to me. But i believe i just asked him an openended question, mr. Chairman. What do you want from ukraine . I keep hearing all these different ideas and theories and this and that. What do you want . And it was a very short, abrupt conversation. He was not in a good mood, and he just said, i want nothing. I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. Tell zelensky to do the right thing. All right. We got a bad mood. We got the no quid pro quo. Do we think we might know why he was a little bit angry . Yeah. Hes doing damage control. To your point, elie hes doing damage control when hes saying no quid pro quo. He believes hes been found out. He believes the scheme has been unveiled. He Knows Congress may be getting involved at some point. Hes probably turning to the news every day wondering when its going to come out. So he needs to be able to say, oh, i said to Gordon Sondland no quid pro quo. But this is directly contradicted by the transcript of the july 25th phone call. That they provided of course. Its contradicted by so much other evidence. You talked about connecting dots before. Were at a point now where you dont need to connect dots. You need to just let the dots wash over you. The picture is very clear. I mean that no quid pro quo, that is damage control. That is because we now know that in late august, he had been told about the whistleblower complaint, and he knew that this was ultimately going to bubble into the public light. I want to read this from the times reporting. They talk about how the intelligence i. G. , michael atkinson, concluded the complaint needed to be sent to congress. He said this. But the white House Counsel pat a. Cipollone and his deputy john a. Eisenberg disagreed. They decided the administration could withhold from congress the whistleblowers accusations because they were protected by executive privilege. The lawyers told mr. Trump they planned to ask the justice Departments Office of Legal Counsel to determine whether they had to disclose the complaint to lawmakers. A week later, the office of Legal Counsel concluded that the administration did not have to hand over the complaint. So, philip, are we thinking they were trying to get ahead of it and just wanted to nip it in the bud before it ever got out . Yeah, i mean clearly. This is actually how this all came to light. It was known there was this whistleblower complaint that was actually being held basketball from congress. Congress found out about it and then adam schiff actually sent a letter demanding this be released. That was all shortly around the time they actually ended up releasing the aid. I think there are a couple points id make on that. The first is that eisenberg himself had twice already been contacted with concerns about this by alex vindman alone hed been contacted twice, including immediately after the july 25th call, saying, hey, im concerned about this conversation. That was the Lieutenant Colonel who said, look, i had a problem with what is being asked here, a quid pro quo. You might have a bipartisan issue with Financial Support for ukraine. He was up on it immediate apply that was his second time going to him. The second thing is to this new time line with President Trump having known, the Washington Post Editorial Board actually on september 5th came out and said we are hearing from reliable sources that there is a connection between this aid and the fact that donald trump wants these investigations in ukraine. So donald trump was already, no matter when he spoke with Gordon Sondland, if its not clear if it was the 7th or the 9th. Donald trump was already aware and it was already public and out there that this was something of concern to him. Where does attorney general barr come into this . He is somebody who essentially weighed in through the Justice Department about the idea of handing over the complaint. Yeah. Lets not forget the legal contortions they went through to try to keep that complaint under wraps. The law says if the complaint is found to be credible and urgent, which the i. G. Did find, it shall be submitted to kocongres. Shall, not negotiable. Unscrupulous lawyers can reach any conclusion that they want. It seems like thats what bill barr did here. Surprise, surprise. Guess how he came out the way of suppressing information that might damage the president . Frank, why is this story not clear to other people . I mean is it a matter of people not understanding the nuanced time line here, or is there something more to it . Peoples inability or refusal to say these dots are connecting or theyre washing over us . Well, first of all, people are not paying clearly as close attention to the fine grain analysis as we are. A lot of people are tuned out. I think the big thing to remember is we live in a time of such sharp political tribalism that most people decide what they want to believe before any of these hearings begin, and they do their level best to cling to that belief. It becomes easy for them in our current news media ecosystem because they can watch, say, fox news if they only want to hear stuff that flatters the president. They can set up their twitter feeds and their facebook, everything they can do to curate information so that their beliefs are validated and echoed back at them. So we may be living in this sort of age of fixed opinion thats nothing like what the situation was in previous impeachment scenarios. Thats a great point. If hes right, philip, i mean the idea that people have this entrenched tribalism when you need Public Opinion Going Forward in an impeachment inquiry, what are they to do now . Is that the reason were going to have these hearings on next wednesday to essentially illuminate and define what impeachment is about and how you define a high crime and misdemeanor . Well, i dont want to get too ahead of the cnn poll results today but they were very illustrative of this exact point. 50 support impeachment and removal. What wasnt shown is that was the exact same number in october before the public hearings actually began. Why is that so important . Because the entire point of the Democrats Holding these public hearings is they wanted to move Public Opinion. What they saw is they didnt really move Public Opinion. They got democrats slightly more onboard. Republicans moved sightly more away. I think one detail of the polling that is really telling is cnn also shared past polling from november 2014. Barack obama, nothing even close to this ukraine issue. Republicans were five times as support in ever impeachment in 2014 as they are now. Of course you got to think about the idea were talking about the senate as jurors and the Founding Fathers said that they thought theyd be more sophisticated than the average juror, who you and i both know, el elie who are going to be fickle. Your minds collectively are great for this topic in particular. Thank you all. New revelations in just the past few hours in the impeachment investigation, including testimony that despite the president s claims, the white house never actually asked its own Budget Office about other countries contributing aid to ukraine until september. [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi grill. Get the perfectly grilled flavors of an outdoor grill indoors, and because its a ninja foodi, it can do even more, like transform into an air fryer. The ninja foodi grill, the grill that sears, sizzles, and air fry crisps. Hes finally here hey how are you . Im good. How are you . Hello grandma for every family going home for the holidays, there are countless people working to help them get there. Thank you to everyone we rely on to get us home to the ones we love. Experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. Sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. Well you remember what happened last year. You cant bring a backup thanksgiving to my sisters house. Its not like were going to walk in with it. Well bring it in as we need it. Phase it in. Phase it in . Yeah, phase it in. Phase it in . Im finding it hard to stay on a faster laptop could help. Plus, tech support to stay worry free. Worry free. Boom boom get free next business day shipping or. 1 hour instore pick up shopping season solved at Office Depot Officemax or officedepot. Com. I am totally blind. And non24 can make me show up too early. Or too late. Or make me feel like im not really there. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442342424. Wayfairs biggest black fridis now on. Ever yes score unbelievable savings. Like living room up to 70 off. Storage solutions from 9. 99. And area rugs up to 80 off. Plus, tons of limitedtime mystery flash deals. And Free Shipping on everything when you shop from thanksgiving through cyber monday. And were just getting warmed up. Our black friday blowout is happening now through december first. Shop the event of the season, only at wayfair. Com. You know, one Big Development on top of another in the impeachment inquiry tonight. In just the last few hours, weve learned that President Trump knew of the whistleblowers complaint before he released the aid to ukraine. And testimony released from a senior official at the office of management and budget appears to shoot down two of the defenses of the president and his allies. Joining me to discuss, manu raju and michael isikoff. Michael, let me start with you here. We are still learning new information about events at really the heart of this impeachment inquiry. There was developments in the last couple hours alone. Is there an argument now for taking a little more time to dig into all of this before moving on to the next phase of the inquiry . Well, certainly theres an argument for it. Is it a good one . Whether its politically wise for the democrats to do at this point is a little unclear. You know, yesterday there was all the talk in light of the ruling by judge jackson involving don mcgahn. Whether that was grounds for holding off to try to get testimony from people like john bolton and mick mulvaney, i dont think thats likely to happen if only because the appeal you know, we saw the appeals filed today in the mcgahn case. Thats going to delay things. And as far as the ukraine testimony in and of itself, i dont know that the democrats are in a position to get much more useful testimony on this because some of the key questions that are still on the table, exactly what prompted the president to reinstate the Ukrainian Military assistance, is probably probably only come from him himself. Its not clear that theres a lot of other people who have a great deal of insight into what his thinking was. How many more puzzle pieces do you need to see the entire jigsaw puzzle . Only one or two are missing, you might have enough to go forward. Lets talk about these new transcripts released by the house intel committee. The omb official, mark sandy, says no one asked them for information about how much money the European Union gave ukraine until just september, a few months ago. Talk about why thats so important here. Well, hes the only official from the white house Budget Office to go behind closed doors and testify before house impeachment investigators. Hes a career official in charge of this process, and what he describes is what he says is a highly unusual process in delaying this military aid to ukraine. That in june, he heard from a senior political appointee that the president apparently had concerns about this aid being withheld because the president read some press report about it. And this set up a whole series of events that occurred that led to discussions internally and that led to this hold being placed in july. Then sandy had multiple questions because he wasnt getting answers to those questions. A top political appointee, mike duf duffy, came in, and he took control of the authority to hold that aid Going Forward after sandy initially placed that aid. He was asking why that happened. The answers werent particularly clear until september came along, when duffy, the political appointee, sent him an email and said the reason why the aid had been withheld is because the president wanted more European Countries to provide Security Assistance to ukraine. It raises a lot of questions because during that duration of those several weeks and months, many people were asking questions about why that aid was being withheld, and of course we know the president was pushing for ukraine to announce those investigations that could help him politically all along at that same time. So it ultimately leads to what was the president thinking and who else could shed more light on that . Who, what, where, when, why. All of it is important. Sandy also testified that two omb officials, including one in the legal division, left after expressing concerns over the hold on the ukrainian aid. And New York Times<\/a> reporting that the president already knew about the whistleblower complaint, that complaint that set off the impeachment inquiry, before he ever released the aid to ukraine. Thats right around the time the president told Ambassador Gordon Sondland<\/a> there was no quid pro quo, using that term, before people started using that phrase even publicly. Its in one of his favorite talking points ever since. He brought it up at his Campaign Rally<\/a> in florida this evening. The crowd chanting no quid pro quo along with him. I want nothing. This is a quote. I want no quid pro quo. I want nothing. Were also getting brandnew information tonight from neverbeforeseen transcripts including this new detail. The white house never actually asked its own Budget Office<\/a> about other countries contributing aid to ukraine until september, which doesnt exactly jive with the president s claims that he held up the aid because he wanted other countries to pony up. Well tell you what else is in those transcripts in a moment. Youve got to wonder with all this new information still coming out, would it be smart for democrats to slow down and see where all of this takes us . That as the House Judiciary Committee<\/a> is taking over and holding its first hearing next wednesday. And its calling the president s bluff here, inviting him and his lawyers to participate and to question witnesses. You remember thats been an obsession for the president and his defenders, demanding to be able to question witnesses. A Senior Administration<\/a> official telling cnn that the idea is under consideration and, quote, likely to come up for discussion during the president s trip to florida for thanksgiving. Ill bet it will. Listen to this from the president tonight. Theyre pushing that impeachment witch hunt, and a lot of bad things are happening to them because you see whats happening in the polls . Everybody said thats really bullshit. Not exactly president ial language, we know. And frankly the fact is half of the American People<\/a> think the president should be impeached and removed from office. You see it right there in the new cnn poll. That comes on the day First Lady Melania Trump<\/a> was booed by an audience of mostly middle and High School Students<\/a> at a youth opioid summit in baltimore, a mix of boos and cheers as the first lady finished her speech and left the stage. And she did respond later that everyones entitled to their opinion, but lets remember this this is baltimore, the city the president called, quote, a disgusting rat and rodentinfested mess and going on to tweet, quote, no human being would want to live there. So is it really any surprise that civility is losing out . Weve got a lot of news on impeachment tonight. Joining me now, frank bruni, philip bump, and elie honig. Im glad youre all here right now. Elie, i got to start with you here because this new New York Times<\/a> reporting is giving us a time line that essentially says the jig is up, that you didnt just coincidentally insert the words quid pro quo in a conversation with Gordon Sondland<\/a>, did he . So much for no quid pro quo. So much for i want nothing. I think five days ago donald trump seemed to think that was the sul ver bullet defense, game over. He just said it in the rally. Remember, adam schiff said he only said that after he got caught. Now it seems were getting confirmation of that. That kind of denial after the fact carries no weight. If anything, it tends to be incriminating. I mean after the fact conversations here, frank, the idea of saying, hold on, lets figure out a way to make what has happened look good. Listen to what Ambassador Gordon Sondland<\/a> had to say. I finally called the president. I believe it was on the 9th of september. I cant find the records, and they wont provide them to me. But i believe i just asked him an openended question, mr. Chairman. What do you want from ukraine . I keep hearing all these different ideas and theories and this and that. What do you want . And it was a very short, abrupt conversation. He was not in a good mood, and he just said, i want nothing. I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. Tell zelensky to do the right thing. All right. We got a bad mood. We got the no quid pro quo. Do we think we might know why he was a little bit angry . Yeah. Hes doing damage control. To your point, elie hes doing damage control when hes saying no quid pro quo. He believes hes been found out. He believes the scheme has been unveiled. He Knows Congress<\/a> may be getting involved at some point. Hes probably turning to the news every day wondering when its going to come out. So he needs to be able to say, oh, i said to Gordon Sondland<\/a> no quid pro quo. But this is directly contradicted by the transcript of the july 25th phone call. That they provided of course. Its contradicted by so much other evidence. You talked about connecting dots before. Were at a point now where you dont need to connect dots. You need to just let the dots wash over you. The picture is very clear. I mean that no quid pro quo, that is damage control. That is because we now know that in late august, he had been told about the whistleblower complaint, and he knew that this was ultimately going to bubble into the public light. I want to read this from the times reporting. They talk about how the intelligence i. G. , michael atkinson, concluded the complaint needed to be sent to congress. He said this. But the white House Counsel<\/a> pat a. Cipollone and his deputy john a. Eisenberg disagreed. They decided the administration could withhold from congress the whistleblowers accusations because they were protected by executive privilege. The lawyers told mr. Trump they planned to ask the justice Departments Office<\/a> of Legal Counsel<\/a> to determine whether they had to disclose the complaint to lawmakers. A week later, the office of Legal Counsel<\/a> concluded that the administration did not have to hand over the complaint. So, philip, are we thinking they were trying to get ahead of it and just wanted to nip it in the bud before it ever got out . Yeah, i mean clearly. This is actually how this all came to light. It was known there was this whistleblower complaint that was actually being held basketball from congress. Congress found out about it and then adam schiff actually sent a letter demanding this be released. That was all shortly around the time they actually ended up releasing the aid. I think there are a couple points id make on that. The first is that eisenberg himself had twice already been contacted with concerns about this by alex vindman alone hed been contacted twice, including immediately after the july 25th call, saying, hey, im concerned about this conversation. That was the Lieutenant Colonel<\/a> who said, look, i had a problem with what is being asked here, a quid pro quo. You might have a bipartisan issue with Financial Support<\/a> for ukraine. He was up on it immediate apply that was his second time going to him. The second thing is to this new time line with President Trump<\/a> having known, the Washington Post<\/a> Editorial Board<\/a> actually on september 5th came out and said we are hearing from reliable sources that there is a connection between this aid and the fact that donald trump wants these investigations in ukraine. So donald trump was already, no matter when he spoke with Gordon Sondland<\/a>, if its not clear if it was the 7th or the 9th. Donald trump was already aware and it was already public and out there that this was something of concern to him. Where does attorney general barr come into this . He is somebody who essentially weighed in through the Justice Department<\/a> about the idea of handing over the complaint. Yeah. Lets not forget the legal contortions they went through to try to keep that complaint under wraps. The law says if the complaint is found to be credible and urgent, which the i. G. Did find, it shall be submitted to kocongres. Shall, not negotiable. Unscrupulous lawyers can reach any conclusion that they want. It seems like thats what bill barr did here. Surprise, surprise. Guess how he came out the way of suppressing information that might damage the president . Frank, why is this story not clear to other people . I mean is it a matter of people not understanding the nuanced time line here, or is there something more to it . Peoples inability or refusal to say these dots are connecting or theyre washing over us . Well, first of all, people are not paying clearly as close attention to the fine grain analysis as we are. A lot of people are tuned out. I think the big thing to remember is we live in a time of such sharp political tribalism that most people decide what they want to believe before any of these hearings begin, and they do their level best to cling to that belief. It becomes easy for them in our current news media ecosystem because they can watch, say, fox news if they only want to hear stuff that flatters the president. They can set up their twitter feeds and their facebook, everything they can do to curate information so that their beliefs are validated and echoed back at them. So we may be living in this sort of age of fixed opinion thats nothing like what the situation was in previous impeachment scenarios. Thats a great point. If hes right, philip, i mean the idea that people have this entrenched tribalism when you need Public Opinion<\/a> Going Forward<\/a> in an impeachment inquiry, what are they to do now . Is that the reason were going to have these hearings on next wednesday to essentially illuminate and define what impeachment is about and how you define a high crime and misdemeanor . Well, i dont want to get too ahead of the cnn poll results today but they were very illustrative of this exact point. 50 support impeachment and removal. What wasnt shown is that was the exact same number in october before the public hearings actually began. Why is that so important . Because the entire point of the Democrats Holding<\/a> these public hearings is they wanted to move Public Opinion<\/a>. What they saw is they didnt really move Public Opinion<\/a>. They got democrats slightly more onboard. Republicans moved sightly more away. I think one detail of the polling that is really telling is cnn also shared past polling from november 2014. Barack obama, nothing even close to this ukraine issue. Republicans were five times as support in ever impeachment in 2014 as they are now. Of course you got to think about the idea were talking about the senate as jurors and the Founding Fathers<\/a> said that they thought theyd be more sophisticated than the average juror, who you and i both know, el elie who are going to be fickle. Your minds collectively are great for this topic in particular. Thank you all. New revelations in just the past few hours in the impeachment investigation, including testimony that despite the president s claims, the white house never actually asked its own Budget Office<\/a> about other countries contributing aid to ukraine until september. [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi grill. Get the perfectly grilled flavors of an outdoor grill indoors, and because its a ninja foodi, it can do even more, like transform into an air fryer. The ninja foodi grill, the grill that sears, sizzles, and air fry crisps. Hes finally here hey how are you . Im good. How are you . Hello grandma for every family going home for the holidays, there are countless people working to help them get there. Thank you to everyone we rely on to get us home to the ones we love. Experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. Sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. Well you remember what happened last year. You cant bring a backup thanksgiving to my sisters house. Its not like were going to walk in with it. Well bring it in as we need it. Phase it in. Phase it in . Yeah, phase it in. Phase it in . Im finding it hard to stay on a faster laptop could help. Plus, tech support to stay worry free. Worry free. Boom boom get free next business day shipping or. 1 hour instore pick up shopping season solved at Office Depot Officemax<\/a> or officedepot. Com. I am totally blind. And non24 can make me show up too early. Or too late. Or make me feel like im not really there. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442342424. Wayfairs biggest black fridis now on. Ever yes score unbelievable savings. Like living room up to 70 off. Storage solutions from 9. 99. And area rugs up to 80 off. Plus, tons of limitedtime mystery flash deals. And Free Shipping<\/a> on everything when you shop from thanksgiving through cyber monday. And were just getting warmed up. Our black friday blowout is happening now through december first. Shop the event of the season, only at wayfair. Com. You know, one Big Development<\/a> on top of another in the impeachment inquiry tonight. In just the last few hours, weve learned that President Trump<\/a> knew of the whistleblowers complaint before he released the aid to ukraine. And testimony released from a senior official at the office of management and budget appears to shoot down two of the defenses of the president and his allies. Joining me to discuss, manu raju and michael isikoff. Michael, let me start with you here. We are still learning new information about events at really the heart of this impeachment inquiry. There was developments in the last couple hours alone. Is there an argument now for taking a little more time to dig into all of this before moving on to the next phase of the inquiry . Well, certainly theres an argument for it. Is it a good one . Whether its politically wise for the democrats to do at this point is a little unclear. You know, yesterday there was all the talk in light of the ruling by judge jackson involving don mcgahn. Whether that was grounds for holding off to try to get testimony from people like john bolton and mick mulvaney, i dont think thats likely to happen if only because the appeal you know, we saw the appeals filed today in the mcgahn case. Thats going to delay things. And as far as the ukraine testimony in and of itself, i dont know that the democrats are in a position to get much more useful testimony on this because some of the key questions that are still on the table, exactly what prompted the president to reinstate the Ukrainian Military<\/a> assistance, is probably probably only come from him himself. Its not clear that theres a lot of other people who have a great deal of insight into what his thinking was. How many more puzzle pieces do you need to see the entire jigsaw puzzle . Only one or two are missing, you might have enough to go forward. Lets talk about these new transcripts released by the house intel committee. The omb official, mark sandy, says no one asked them for information about how much money the European Union<\/a> gave ukraine until just september, a few months ago. Talk about why thats so important here. Well, hes the only official from the white house Budget Office<\/a> to go behind closed doors and testify before house impeachment investigators. Hes a career official in charge of this process, and what he describes is what he says is a highly unusual process in delaying this military aid to ukraine. That in june, he heard from a senior political appointee that the president apparently had concerns about this aid being withheld because the president read some press report about it. And this set up a whole series of events that occurred that led to discussions internally and that led to this hold being placed in july. Then sandy had multiple questions because he wasnt getting answers to those questions. A top political appointee, mike duf duffy, came in, and he took control of the authority to hold that aid Going Forward<\/a> after sandy initially placed that aid. He was asking why that happened. The answers werent particularly clear until september came along, when duffy, the political appointee, sent him an email and said the reason why the aid had been withheld is because the president wanted more European Countries<\/a> to provide Security Assistance<\/a> to ukraine. It raises a lot of questions because during that duration of those several weeks and months, many people were asking questions about why that aid was being withheld, and of course we know the president was pushing for ukraine to announce those investigations that could help him politically all along at that same time. So it ultimately leads to what was the president thinking and who else could shed more light on that . Who, what, where, when, why. All of it is important. Sandy also testified that two omb officials, including one in the legal division, left after expressing concerns over the hold on the ukrainian aid. And Senior Administration<\/a> officials are actually disputing this. We know one of them went to the Government Accountability<\/a> office, the gao. How significant is all of this now . Well, look, apparently these people resigned over concerns about the budget and impoundment act and whether the white house was following that, which is an interesting technical legal question, but its not what the impeachment debate is all about. President trump theres not going to be an article of impeachment accusing the president of violating that particular statute. Thats not what its about. And i do have to say i think that the sandy testimony is a little more muddled than some of the coverage tonight is suggesting because the fact that his superior at omb, the political appointee, mike duffy, did come back with those questions about what other European Countries<\/a> were spending in terms of aid to ukraine, go back to the transcript of the july 25th call, and its the first thing that President Trump<\/a> raises with zelensky before he ever gets to the 2016 election interference and the bidens, hes talking about whether germany and other European Countries<\/a> are spending enough. So its likely that was part of the mix, and thats why this makes it not quite as clean a case on the military aid suspension as the democrats have presented so far. You know, of course on that point, manu, the idea that the president made that statement in terms of asking for a favor and reminding about essentially the reciprocity that needed to happen and the leverage was all being put up at that point in time. But were also learning new information today about the time line of events on july 25th, the day of the now infamous call. Take a look. So trumpzelenskys call happens at 9 03 a. M. Trump says he wants zelensky to do us a favor on the investigations. Then at 2 31 p. M. , the ukrainians and the House Foreign Affairs<\/a> committee have begun to start asking the state Department Questions<\/a> about the Security Assistance<\/a>. And then at 4 25 p. M. , a second email from the state department asking about the Foreign Military<\/a> financing situation. Then today we learned that trump officially put a hold on the aid to ukraine later in the evening. This is all in one day. Manu, whats your takeaway from all this . Yeah, and the aid had been withheld at least there was an announcement that this aid would be withheld for the week before an interagency Conference Call<\/a> that the notice came from an official at the White House Office<\/a> of management and budget saying that the direction came from the president to place this hold on this aid. And the people who were in that call testified that they were alarmed by that. They were stunned by that decision. And then the following week, the discussions continued, and then that evening of july 25th, that infamous phone call officially for the first time, the White House Office<\/a> of management and budget places a hold on the aid. But whats significant too in all of this, there are still questions all along about why that aid had been withheld. Those questions from the ukrainian embassy, people were asking questions what was going on with the Security Assistance<\/a>. It was unclear if they knew exactly precisely why that aid would have been withheld or someone tipped them off that there was something going on that they needed to be concerned about. But whats clear from all of this, there were a number of questions happening all around the president s own government. So when the president says it was all about one phone call, it wasnt just about one phone call. It set up a whole series of events where there were a lot of people alarmed, concerned, major implications to National Security<\/a> were being raised. And, manu, after all this, everyone thought it was a perfect call. I hope you can see my sarcasm through the screen. Thank you, gentlemen. Thanks. The first lady was booed in baltimore today by an audience full of high school and middle school students. To join you today for such an important event centered on o opioid awareness. Is civility dead . And if so, who killed it . Well discuss that next. 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First Lady Melania Trump<\/a> was booed by an audience of mostly middle and High School Students<\/a> while speaking about the Opioid Crisis<\/a> in baltimore. Thank you for the warm introduction and for inviting me to join you today for such an important event centered on opioid awareness. Thank you. [ cheers and booing ] thank you so much, first lady. This is the first time she has been publicly booed at a solo event. The first lady responding in a statement saying, we live in a democracy, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the fact is we have a serious crisis in our country, and i remain committed to educating children on the dangers and deadly consequences of drug abuse. Joining me now to discuss all of this, Tara Setmayer<\/a> and scott jennings. Welcome to you both. Im glad youre here. Thank you. Tara, ill start with you. I mean, first of all, first ladies dont often get booed. It was almost uncomfortable to watch. Yeah, it was. I want to know whose decision it was to decide that she should go to an area outside of baltimore, a place where the president of the United States<\/a> has insulted, calling it ratinfested when after the beloved Elijah Cummings<\/a> from that area, who has now passed away, never apologizing for those comments. I mean what did they expect . It was a hostile environment. Now, the other side of it is these are high school and middle school students. They shouldnt be acting that way. It is still the first lady of the United States<\/a>. But this what do you expect in this politically incivil environment that were in that it comes straight from the top. Its difficult to take Melania Trump<\/a> seriously on a be best campaign when her husband is the bully in chief from the bully pulpit of the presidency. Hes disrespectful. He does everything that shes allegedly supposed to stand against, yet shes supposed to represent this and people take her seriously. Its incongruent, and you see the result. Scott, i mean is tara right . After comments like that, shouldnt the white house have taken some sort of backlash or should this have been compartmentalized given the topic of the speech . I think tara raises a good question about the scheduling process. I wonder if someone raised a flag internally about putting her in a situation where she was going to have to face, you know, essentially problems you know, p. R. Problems in a city that she didnt make. Now, i applaud them on the other hand for having the courage to go do it because the topic is so important. The white house does have a lot of legislative and policy success on Opioid Crisis<\/a> that we face in this country, opioid addiction and Overdose Deaths<\/a> are down. So its going that theyre out doing this. You know, when i was watching it, i heard some cheers. I heard some boos. I was thinking about the civility angle you brought up. But i thought melanias statement on the back end of it is just right. Its a semiautomatidemocracy. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I heard, again, cheers and boos but obviously the kids who were booing the first lady of the United States<\/a> didnt fear any reprisals. It makes me wonder if the adults in their life, the teachers and parents had obviously given them negative feedback about the president and first lady of the United States<\/a>. That would be shocking for parents to talk to their kids about that would be shocking, scott. Tara, Melania Trump<\/a> was trying to raise awareness about the nations Opioid Crisis<\/a>. She, personally, never trashed baltimore. So in a way, is the first lady responsible for her husbands behavior . Are people no longer able to distinguish the two . Well, shes an extension of him, and at this point you just cannot separate the two, particularly given what she has chosen to be her signature issue. The be best program. Right. It has multiple pillars is my understanding. Now, opioids were added to that, obviously because the online cyberbullying part of it was so asinine coming from her given who her husband is and the environment we live in. But she was supposed to be a moderating force, right . Her and ivanka, people thought, okay, she can be his whisperer and were looking to her to do that, and she hasnt. She hasnt really come out and spoken out against her husband when hes done things that are completely unacceptable and against what her alleged campaign is. So, no, i think at this point you cant separate the two. Shes a willing accomplice whether she wants to be or not. She is by not speaking out against it. Let me Say Something<\/a> about High School Students<\/a>. Ucla did a study that came out in the spring about the incivility environment that were in and how its affecting High School Students<\/a>. They studied 505 high schools and they surveyed principals. 89 of those principals said that the political incivility climate that were living in has negatively affected their environments in school. They said it was not only that, it was also racially charged. Yeah. And it was also for misinformation on the internet that has fueled this. This is something that is certainly happening in the environment of trump, in the age of trump. Scott, i got to bring you in here for the last word because obviously what tara is explaining is the idea that students and children are not immune from the conversation of their parents. Whats your last word . Yeah. Theyre not, and its unfortunate that the conversations being had by the adults in this country are now being and the behavior of the adults are being emulated by our children. I did want to push back on something tara said about, you know, first ladies and president s being, you know, linked. She called her an accomplice, which is a word you use when somebody is engaged in criminal behavior, so i dont think thats an appropriate thing to say about the first lady of the United States<\/a>. I worked for george w. Bush in the second term, and he was not popular. In fact, his Approval Ratings<\/a> were much lower than Donald Trumps<\/a> are now. I went on trips with the first lady. She did a lot of public speaking and i dont recall her being treated this way. In Barack Obamas<\/a> term where he wasnt popular at times, Michelle Obama<\/a> was always loved and revered. Thats true. I do think its a bit unusual. Its a sign of the times, and its unfortunate wait. Their husbands did not behave the way trump did. I hear both of you. Im out of time. Well be right back. Even though we just started dating i find you so captivating and im done with hesitating lets see where this goes . Save on a gift that says it all. Jared im a regular in my neighborhood. Im a regular at my local coffee shop and my local barber shop. When you shop small you help support your community from after School Programs<\/a> to the arts so become a regular, more regularly. Because for every dollar you spend at a Small Business<\/a>, an average of 67 cents stays in the community. Join me and American Express<\/a> on Small Business<\/a> saturday, november 30th, and see how shopping small adds up. Puberty means personal space. So sports clothes sit around growing odors. Thats why we graduated to tide pods sport. Finally something more powerful than the funk. Tide sport removes even weekold sweat odor. Its got to be tide. For adults with moderately to severely active crohns disease, stelara\u00ae works differently. Studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. Stelara\u00ae may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. Some serious infections require hospitalization. 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As to joe biden, hes a fine man. Ive known him for a very long time. But to those who say that the biden connection to the ukraine has been thoroughly looked at, nothing could be further from the truth. Graham also talking and taking to twitter saying, i love joe biden as a person, but were not going to give a pass to what is obviously a conflict of interest. I believe Hunter Bidens<\/a> association on the burisma board doesnt pass the smell test. If a republican was in the same position, theyd certainly be investigated. Now, there is no evidence of any wrongdoing by the bidens. Grahams comments coming after joe biden spoke with don lemon about the attacks from his longtime friend. I am disappointed and quite frankly im angered by the fact. He knows me. He knows my son. He knows theres nothing to this. Joining me now to discuss all of this, michael dantonio, and olivia nunzy. Michael, let me start with you because the obvious question is if senator Lindsey Graham<\/a> was so interested in conflicts of interest, wouldnt he be pursuing that of the president and his family even though hes his golf buddy . Well, just as you might have answered, the president might be pursuing issues of corruption in ukraine, which he never did. With a guy like Lindsey Graham<\/a>, hes talking about how he liked joe biden very much. He really admires him. Well, i think hes disqualifying himself from anybody liking him. He abandoned his friend john mccain when trump was attacking in. Even after his death. Now hes piling on to joe biden when he knows it isnt true. Hes not a stupid guy. He understands the facts here, and hes just playing partisan politics in its meanest form. Olivia, speaking of conflicts, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> conflicts of interest specifically. Hes contradicted himself over ukraine in media appearances, accidentally dialed reporters and had some bizarre Text Exchange<\/a>s. You actually wrote a piece about it. Heres one you had with him that included a stop sign emoji. How effective can he be as a lawyer in he acts so erratically and really off the cuff like this . Well, in some sense, in terms of him deflecting attention from what the president is saying and doing, maybe he is being effective. I think overall hes been a tremendous distraction, and we see that Text Exchange<\/a> from october 11th, i believe. And it was when the president first started to try to sort of put some distance between himself and giuliani. He said some things that echoed language that hes previously used before he has fired somebody. And so it called into question whether or not giuliani was long for this world in trumps orbit. And of course he stayed on and remained close to the president since then. But then today this came up again, where the president seemed to put some distance between himself and giuliani, said that he had other clients. He never directed him to go to ukraine to launch this investigation on his behalf, and of course he ended up not going after i believe it was ken vogel reported on a trip he was going to take there. But i think overall giuliani has been a big problem for the president. Hes now understand investigation. Several of his associates have been indicted, and one wonders how long this could go on this way. I mean you think about that. Has he had a response to your response giuliani . He has. Joshocking, olivia. What did he say . I would also point out he said he was not going to talk to me any longer, and hes continued to talk to me for the duration of the afternoon and evening. Hes not happy about the story. Hes pretty disappointed. He said that im biased, and he didnt like it. Well, hence the stop sign emoji, right . He also did that thing where he said, im not going to talk to you anymore and then continued to talk to me. Maybe it will continue. I got to put the stop sign emoji up here, although i hate doing it with both of you. Thank you for being a part of the show. Thank you. 36 years. Thats how long three newly freed men spent behind bars for a crime they didnt commit. Who is responsible for this outrage . Ill make my case next. Even though we just started dating i find you so captivating and im done with hesitating lets see where this goes . Save on a gift that says it all. Jared loud fan noise children playing Music Building<\/a> experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. Sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. Billions of problems. Sore gums . Bleeding gums . Painful flossing . Theres a therabreath for you. Therabreath healthy gums oral rinse fights gingivitis and plaque and prevents gum disease for 24 hours. So you can. Breathe easy, theres therabreath at walmart. Im finding it hard to stay on a faster laptop could help. Plus, tech support to stay worry free. Worry free. Boom boom get free next business day shipping or. 1 hour instore pick up shopping season solved at Office Depot Officemax<\/a> or officedepot. Com. The best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. The ninja foodi Pressure Cooker<\/a>, the Pressure Cooker<\/a> that crisps. I am totally blind. And non24 can make me show up too early. Or too late. Or make me feel like im not really there. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442342424. Well you remember what happened last year. You cant bring a backup thanksgiving to my sisters house. Its not like were going to walk in with it. Well bring it in as we need it. Phase it in. Phase it in . Yeah, phase it in. This thanksgiving is going to be an extra special holiday for three baltimore men and their families. But dont mistake it for a victory. Their story is a tragedy that should outrageous all. Yesterday the men were released from prison after spending 36 years behind bars for a murder they did not commit. You heard that right. 36 long years for a crime they were not responsible for. And whats worse is that the prosecutors actually had reason to believe they were innocent. Here they are. I want you to hear their names. The names that were replaced by prisoner i. D. Numbers for over three decades. From left to right, mr. Alfred chestnut. Mr. Andrew stewart. And mr. Ransom watkins locked up as teenagers. They insisted on their innocence and there was jubilation as they tasted freedom for the first time in three and a half decades. This is the day the lord has made. He has set the us free. Im always dreaming of this day. I have been dreaming of this. That man there thats al fred chestnut. And his action ta led to the freedom. The Washington Post<\/a> reports he uncovered new evidence which he sent to the Prosecutors Office<\/a> and what he uncovered is heartbreaking. Evidence that was never turned over to defense attorneying deck attorneys decades ago. They were ripped from their beds on thanksgiving morning and charged with a murder of a 14 yoerld middle school student. Baltimore police said the boy was shot and killed for his basketball jacket. While they were skipping school. At the time, police claimed their smoking gun was a similar jacket found in chestnuts home. That jacket didnt contain blood or gunshot residue. And chestnuts own mother had saved the receipt from when she bought it. A store clerk was able to vouch for the purchase and theres more. Teenage eyewitnesss were questioned by police without their parents being present. And were told to get their stories straight. The Baltimore District<\/a> attorney now admits a anonymous calls identified another shooter. One who was seen wearing what appeared to be the victims jacket and confessed to the murder. That shooter was killed 20 years later. While three children were in prison. Now men. I bet they wished they never missed their school that day. I bet one of the mothers wished she had never bought a similar jacket for her own son. When i really wish is that prosecutors had been ethical or at the very least, humane. And i wish that justice wasnt some after thought that plays second fiddle to prosecutor notches on a belt. When i was a fall prosecutor and announced myself on being behalf of the people of the United States<\/a>, i knew the people of the United States<\/a> of america included the defendants. Its every prosecutors responsibility to prove her case beyond a reasonable doubt. Not at the cost of justice. Not at the cost of humanity. Prosecutors actually must give over any evidence to the defense that may suggest even the defendants innocence. Give people a fighting chance at the presumption of innocence meaning something, anything, that wasnt done here. Instead, three children were locked in a cage for 36 years because the prosecutors couldnt be bothered to tell the truth. Its been rough. Inside them walls. But on the inside we went through hell. It wasnt easy. Out here were smiling. Were happy were free. A lot to fix. Here is the sad truth. They made may have been released to loved one. To a world they dont recognize. They have no money, no homes. No cars or licenses. No medical insurance. And no immediate job prospects. Its an outrageous injustice. The journey is just beginning. I have to learn how to live right now. To call this unfair would be the under statement of 36 years. Absolutely none of that is their fault. Its a society fault that will continue if greater reforms are not implemented in our criminal justice system. We cannot continue to rejoice after each exoneration. Without calling for a reformation of the system that perpetuates the tragedy. Reactive justice is hardly comforting to three children robbed their live ts hardly comforting for the 14 yearold boy killed over a jacket. That now knows their child killer was never punished. Its about as comforting as offering thoughts and prayers after tragedy instead of actual legislative solution. 13,140 days. 432 months. 36 years. Three children. One apology. That doesnt add up to justice. Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues. D its tt offer of the year during the ford black friday event. Now, for a limited time, get 20 estimated savings on select 2019 ford models plus earn complimentary maintenance through ford pass rewards. The ford black friday event ends soon so hurry in today now get 20 estimated savings on the 2019 ford edge, plus earn complimentary maintenance through fordpass rewards. The black friday event ends soon. Plaque psoriasis uncoverth clearer skin that can last. In fact, tremfya\u00ae was proven superior to humira\u00ae in providing significantly clearer skin. Tremfya\u00ae may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Tremfya\u00ae. Uncover clearer skin that can last. Janssen can help you explore cost support options. Hey, our workers comp insurance is expiring. Should i just renew it . Yeah, sure. Hey there, Small Business<\/a> owner. Pie insurance here with some sweet advice to stop you from overpaying on workers comp. Try pie instead and save up to 30 . Thirty percent . Really . Sure get a quote in 3 minutes at easyaspie. Com. That is easy. So, need another reminder . No, im good. Reminder for what . Oh. Ho ho, yeah need workers comp insurance . Get a quote in 3 minutes at easyaspie. Com. [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi grill. Get the perfectly grilled flavors of an outdoor grill indoors, and because its a ninja foodi, it can do even more, like transform into an air fryer. The ninja foodi grill, the grill that sears, sizzles, and air fry crisps. What did the president know about the ukraine whistleblower complaint and when did he know it . John berman here in for anderson. Tonight new reporting that says he knew as much as a week before he finally released the frozen military aid to ukraine and weeks before he said this to his ukraine fixer Gordon Sondland<\/a> about what he wanted from kyiv. I say to the ambassador in response, i want nothing. I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia803103.us.archive.org\/34\/items\/CNNW_20191127_030000_CNN_Tonight_With_Don_Lemon\/CNNW_20191127_030000_CNN_Tonight_With_Don_Lemon.thumbs\/CNNW_20191127_030000_CNN_Tonight_With_Don_Lemon_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}