This is cnn tonight. I am don lemon. It is 11 00 p. M. , here, on the east coast. And we have multiple breaking news stories on this friday night. Not one but two fridaynight news dumps from the Justice Department against the backdrop of a country in turmoil. Maybe, they think the news would get lost amid President Trump making his return to the campaign trail tomorrow, with a massive rally in tulsa, oklahoma. He is expecting thousands of supporters to pack an indoor arena. Even though oklahoma is reporting a record oneday increase in coronavirus cases, and tulsa county has more infections than any other county in the state. Public Health Officials warning that the rally has the potential to be a superspreader event. Maybe they think that it will get lost among the soaring numbers of coronavirus cases in california, in florida, in arizona. All, seeing recordhigh numbers. And the World Health Organization is warning were in a, quote, new and dangerous phase of the pandemic. Maybe, they think it will be drowned out by marches across the country celebrating juneteenth, the end of slavery in the u. S. Thousands rallying for unity and justice from atlanta to oakland to washington, d. C. Just weeks after the death of george floyd sparked National Protests on Police Brutality and systemic racism. I am talking about two big stories. Breaking out of the Justice Department. Late tonight, the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york is resigning. Jeffrey burman has run for sdny since 2018. Investigating multiple members of trumps inner circle. The news coming, right after the doj dropped a new version of the Mueller Report, with less redactions. Were going to cover that, and all of these top stories, in the hour ahead, from a country in turmoil. So i want to begin tonight with the countrys two major crises coming together tonight and tomorrow in tulsa, oklahoma, as conflict over race and politics meets. Meets the coronavirus. And joining me now, john harwood and cnn political analyst ryan liza. Good evening to both of you. I appreciate it. Also, john, the president may be craving giant crowds with thousands of people. Masks, optional. Inside a closed arena. Goes against the cdc guidelines, and even the white house is the white houses guidelines. I would say that the white house is in denial about the risk. But, at some point, it seems much more intentional than that. It is intentional deception. Well, its certainly intentional. Look. The the white house can hear what Anthony Fauci has to say, and what the Corona Task Force Coronavirus Task force has said. This is a situation you you used the right word at the top, of the description. He craves the adulation of these crowds. Trump has had a very rough several months. Hes been battered. Hes way down, to joe biden, nationally. Down in nearly all the battleground states. Hes been just hit by adverse event, after adverse event. And so, he lives for the adulation of others, the admiration of others. And so, he is dying to have this crowd in tulsa cheer his name. Hes going to have 20,000 crowd inside. Hes got overflow space outside. And, secondly, he wants to send a signal to his supporters around the country, that his campaign is kicking off. That he is going to fight. And, third, by not requiring masks, something that he does not encourage, himself. He does not model, himself, for other people. He is trying to send the message that weve moved past the coronavirus, and were on to the reopening phase of the country. Its a very risky message, because the more the coronavirus explodes, in places like arizona and texas and florida and in oklahoma, its going up as well. The more risk you have of damage to the economy, right as we get to the fall. But hes not looking at the longterm. Hes looking at right now. John, also tonight, trump is saying that the defense secretary, mark esper and mark milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, should have been proud to join him on that walk across lafayette park. Really . Proud to stand by, while peaceful protestors were sprayed with tear gas, all so he can get a photo op . Don, one of the things we learned from the john bolton book, that came out this week, is that the president believes that his personal interest is more important than the national interest, or is the national interest, in his mind. And so, when mark milley and secretary esper expressed the view that it was a mistake for them to participate in this domestic stunt for the photo op at st. Johns church. They are saying that, in the interest of the proper role of civilianmilitary relations in the country, and their conception of their duty. Donald trumps conception of their duty is duty to him. And so, he said, in that interview with axios, well, maybe by regulation, they shouldnt have done it. But i wouldnt have handled it that way. I know the regulations better than they do. What hes saying is they should ignore those concerns of their office, and do what is good for me. You know, john, this the president is in a tailspin. He is unable to handle the racial unrest in this country. He is downplaying or intentionally deceiving people about the coronavirus pandemic, that has killed over 119,000 americans. And instead of attempting to unite, he is threatening protestors. Hes always been able to get away with this stuff before. But are i mean, i dont know. Are there signs, now, that his usual tactics arent working well for him . Well, we know theyre not working well for him. Because hes trailing joe biden, by eight or nine points, in the average of national polls. He is trailing in nearly all the battleground states. 61 of the American People told the quinnipiac pollsters the other day, he is dishonest. And what weve seen in the portrayals of President Trump, from john bolton, from jim mattis, from john kelly, his seniormost, top aides, is to affirm the very harsh, negative judgments we heard in the campaign, in 2016, from marco rubio, ted cruz, hillary clinton. That President Trump is dishonest. That hes amoral. That hes unfit for office. That is becoming a consensus judgment of nearly everyone who has encountered donald trump. And theres no sign that hes going to change. He you know this new book is out, right . And hes not happy about it so he is calling trump is calling john bolton a wacko, as we learn more allegations about this from the white house about this book. Name calling of people who turn on him. The White House Press secretary was asked about this. Why does the president keep hiring people who are dumb as a rock, way over their heads, wacko, and incompetent . So the president makes hiring decisions based on the fact that he likes to have countervailing viewpoints. I spoke to him this morning about the hiring of john bolton, in particular. And he said i like to counterbalance my opinion with individuals that have he likes a team of rivals like what we saw in president lincolns administration. I mean, do you actually think the president said the word countervailing and counterbalance . But, anyway, a team of rivals, really . Look. Kayleigh mcenany seems to want to top herself in ridiculous comments. One after the other. Look. The problem is not the people that donald trump has hired. Because all of them walk away, even if they walked into the office with sterling reputations, they walk out with a common judgment of donald trump. At some point, you have to accept the reality. I dont expect Kayleigh Mcenany to do it. But the the American People have come to accept it. A majority of them. And people who had close contact with donald trump have come to accept it. The problem is with donald trump. Hes the president. He, as i said, the from his 2016 republican rivals, democratic rivals, and now, his seniormost aides, they all agree he is not fit for the presidency. And you cant talk your way out of that, no matter, you know, what you stand at the white house podium and try to conjure up in terms of a comparison to abraham lincoln. John harwood, technical difficulties. You got the whole segment to yourself. So our apologies about ryan liza. Have a good weekend. I want to bring in, now, cnns senior justice correspondent, none other than evan perez. And by the way, the former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, laura coates, joins us as well. Cnn senior legal analyst, who is a former federal prosecutor. Good evening, to one and all. Pareed, im going to start with you. Another fridaynight firing, this time of one of the most important attorneys in america. You dont buy that Jeffrey Burman stepped down. You believe he was forced out . Yeah. I have some experience with being fired by the president , in that exact job. The press release says he stepped down. I understand, from just the circumstances from the reporting, and from people ive talked to myself, that Jeffrey Berman was fired. People will point out immediately the president has every right to Fire United States attorney. Those people pleasure, like i did, at the pleasure of the president. But coming friday night, unexpectedly. He is your own handpicked person, prosecutor, for that job. Less than five months away from an election, with all sorts of other reporting going on, including with respect to the john bolton book. Just because its authorized and may be lawful doesnt mean it doesnt stink to high heaven. And id like to understand what was going on here. Id hope that if its possible, that jeff berman, the outgoing u. S. Attorney, would explain some of that if he has the ability to do so. And i think congress should ask some questions. Its a highly irregular thing to do in this way, with respect to your own United States attorney, when there are all sorts of investigations swirling around the president , his associates. There may be anger about the way some of the prior investigations were conducted, with respect to his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, and others. Theres a lot of questions that should be asked. And i wait to see if we get any answers. Evan, i want to bring you in. What do you know about this unexpected departure of Jeffrey Berman . Yeah, preet is right. I mean, Jeffrey Berman was pushed out. He was ousted from the u. S. Attorneys office. Im told, don, that he was offered other jobs inside the Justice Department. He was offered the civil division, here, in washington. Where the assistant attorney general just abruptly announced his departure earlier this week. But Jeffrey Berman declined that job. So he was forced out of the job in new york. Now, it tells you a lot about the way this was done. Bill barr, the attorney general, was in new york today. He met with berman and this, all, went down today. But the attorney general decided to skip over the deputy, which is normally, you know, when when preet was fired, for instance, they put the deputy as the acting attorney general im sorry, the acting u. S. Attorney. They didnt do that, in this case. They decided to bring in someone from new jersey to be the acting, while they wait for the senate to act on the nomination of jay clayton, who is the chairman of the securities and exchange commission. So tells you a lot that they believe that the Justice Department, here, in washington doesnt believe that the Southern District of new york can really be trusted. They wanted someone that they could trust. And thats the reason why they brought in craig, who is the u. S. Attorney in new jersey, who is going to be the acting u. S. Attorney in manhattan, now now that berman is going is leaving on july 3rd. And to do both jobs. Im sorry to jump in. But the extraordinary thing is that you have a person, who has a big, fulltime job in new jersey. Its a big prosecutors office. They do a lot of casings. N now, being asked to come in and supervise an even bigger office, that does even more cases. While we wait in the final moments of this administration, or at least this term of the administration, the nomination of someone else. Who, by the way, is a nice guy. I know him. He is an able civil litigator. Never tried a criminal case. Never tried a criminal case, whatsoever. That would be a first in Southern District of new york. Preet, you can jump in anytime. I dont mind at all. But lets get laura in on this. I want to talk about something because preet mentioned this earlier. But i want you to dig into it. Berman was handpicked by President Trump. Under his leadership, bermans office has been investigating Rudy Giuliani and others. Could that have something to do with it . I wonder, don, if there was some coincidence here about this process. You know, one of the things that makes this so unusual and also predictable, is that weve seen over the course of the administration, as it relates to those who are in a prosecutorial position, that the president really takes seriously, at the pleasure of the president of the United States. Meaning, what actually pleases him or his colleagues, his people hes working with or that work under him, in some capacity. And, remember, one of the things thats so important about this. We talk a lot about the morale of Police Departments across this country. Theres morale involved for, not only the career prosecutors who serve under these appointed u. S. Attorneys but, also, has an impact on the prioritization of cases, within a prosecutors office. Its not as if everything will stop, depending upon who the u. S. Attorney is. But it does have a big influence in other cases that are in the pipeline and down the road. Charging decisions. Decisions about how to go forward. We have already seen what happened here, in washington, d. C. , when there was a replacement of prosecutors who were handling the roger stone sentencing, et cetera. So it makes a very big impact. And i suspect its directly tied, in many respects, to the president being displeased by the handling of investigation of those who are close to him, and those who are no longer close to him, as in Michael Cohen or lev parnas. Let me ask you this because evan talked about the s. E. C. Commission. Plans to nominate him to replace berman. Never been a prosecutor. How unusual is that . Well, its very unusual, particularly in a jurisdiction thats known the southevereign district of new york. And the idea that these are extraordinarily competent litigators who have a very wide grasp of trials, of the strategy of evidentiarybased prosecution. To have someone oversee career prosecutors, who would not be able to give perhaps the guidance necessary. Can i take a look at it real quick . Is quite different than whats happening to, of course, the idea of sdny. And so, there is some financial component. I mean, sdny does oversee cases like this. But it is unusual, in some respects, to have somebody who is a top official, in a Prosecutorial Office of that stature, who does not have litigation experience. However, i trust in career prosecutors. I was one of them. The idea that we are competent enough to handle cases, in spite of who was appointed and i hope thats the case in sdny. Okay. Let me ask you this, evan. I need to bring you in here. This is a statement of u. S. Attorney Jeffrey Berman on announcement by attorney general. And the statement says i learned in a press release from the attorney general tonight that i was stepping down as u. S. United states attorney. I have not resigned, and have no intention of resigning my position, to which i was appointed by the judges of the United States District Court for the Southern District of new york. I will step down, when a president iallyappointed nominee is confirmed by the senate. Until then, our investigations will move forward, without delay or interruption. I cherish every day that i work with the men and women of this office to pursue justice, without fear or favor. And intend to ensure that this offices important cases continue, unimpeded. Talk to me, evan. Good for him. Well, i mean, look. I think preet preet knows exactly what this playbook looks like because this is sort of a little bit of what happened with preet. But, this is what we were hearing. We were hearing that berman was not going, willingly. That he was, essentially, being told that he was being replaced. And just the atmospherics of everything, don. And keep in mind, Justice Department, attorney general bill barr had tried to do this last year. There was a period where they were orchestrating a way to get rid of berman and put someone else in there. And then, a couple of guys, who were working with Rudy Giuliani, ended up buying oneway tickets to vienna. And the fbi went and arrested them, suddenly. And that made it impossible, at that moment, to get rid of Jeffrey Berman. Thats the reason why they didnt pull this off last year. And why he was able to survive all of that. And of course, now we know the Giuliani Investigation is an outgrowth of that investigation to lev parnas and some other giuliani associates. So berman has been on the radar for the attorney general, for the president , for some time that somebody that they wanted to get rid of. And all of this, of course, you know, the the the lack of trust in berman goes back to the fact that he is the one. Its his office that named the president as, essentially, an unindicted coconspirator in the Michael Cohen case. They named him as individual one, you remember, in that case. So all of this is connected, in the end. Okay. So, preet, listen. I can but i want you to weigh in. I was appointed by the judges of the United States District Court of the Southern District of new york. I will step down when a president ially appointed nominee is confirmed by the senate. Basically, hes hes daring them and saying fire me. Is that am i right . No, i think hes saying more than that, actually. Its an incredibly interesting statement. Hes saying, essentially, you cannot fire me. What people are forgetting, you know, i was confirmed by the senate, as are most United States attorneys. But there is a provision in the law, when you fire someone and put it in acting, they have a limited term, during which they can serve. After which, the president either has to nominate someone and get someone confirmed. Or the chief judge, essentially, in the district appoints you. And thats what happened with jeff berman. Jeff berman is not senate confirmed. Jeff berman is appointed by the court. It sounds like hes taken the position hes taken the position that im appointed by the court, and i cannot be removed by anyone but the court. I think. Unless and until there is a senate in my place. So im not going anywhere. So thats a kind of interesting standoff that you dont see quite often. Right. Its going to be an interesting thing, don. Yeah. Thats what hes saying. Hang on. Hang on. Evan, hold on. Because, again, and youre right. I mean, preet, you know this playbook. So theyre saying they cant fire him. So so so now what . What happens, now . Now, you know, maybe there will be litigation. Maybe there will be a game of chicken. It sounds like the game of chicken was tried. Look. It makes no sense that you have an able, good, United States attorney, who had the respect of the office, jeff berman, in place. Its minutes before the administration, the term at least, is going to end. You claim you like him enough, according to the reporting, that hes able to get another big job in the Justice Department. Why engage in this game of Musical Chairs, right . Musical chairs is maybe maybe a fun game for toddlers to play. Not a good way to accomplish justice. Clearly, didnt want him in that particular role. Why would they go out of their way if they didnt like a person . To give him some other, lesser job in the department . What selfrespecting person would want to do that . Maybe they understood that, by operation of law, its not easy to get rid of somebody unless they go willingly. Ive never seen this before. My situation was not quite like this. But i accepted the idea that, if the president who appointed me, wanted me to go, then i would go. In jeff bermans case, he might have a leg to stand on. I have never seen a litigation about Something Like this. Its not good for the department. Its not good for that office. Its not good for the administration of Law Enforcement to go about this in a way. And by the way, if there is litigation, and i dont mean to disparage large groups people, but their litigations tend to be terrible. We saw it in the case of john bolton and his book. They are not good when they try to do something that is improper and inappropriate at justifying it with the court. The court appoint jeff berman so i will be on the edge of my seat watching this not just as a citizen but as someone who served that office for many, many years. Laura, i want to bring you in and ask you, how often are we here, on a friday night, talking about these latenight firings from the Justice Department . Go on, laura. Too often, in fact. And the three words i they thats on the tip of everyones tongue, in addition to the word why, is perhaps obstruction of justice in some way. And the reason i bring that phrase up is i, like preet and evan and you, don, have the question about why now . Why this u. S. Attorney . And why, at this particular late stage in the first term of a presidency . And still try to move the person to a different section. Unless the person had direct oversight over a matter to which the president did not want to be pursued. Now, its speculation, of course, to think of all the reasons the president may want that. But we have a pastasprolog sort of definition of what happened when the president sought to avoid prosecution by any entity. So i am wondering, at this point in time, why the answer as to why the Musical Chairs is being played. People who have very big ties to people align with the president of the United States. To need to seek recourse with the court, perhaps the president would have to explain some way, the president that protects him, saying there is a reason im doing this and its a benign reason. Its not to obstruct justice in some form or fashion. Weve all seen what happens when there is a obstruction of justice claim against this president. I mean, the Mueller Report just came out in a more unredacted form today, talking about this very issue. Talking about what the president s motivations were and were not related to different trials. So im curious to know if now is the time because particular pursuit of a case, either involves the president or someone in his circle. And if thats the case, well, the threat about mentioning that the court was the one to appoint him is much more than just a chicken game. Its, in fact, a do you want to tell them why youd like me to leave . Or shall i . Can i ask you this, preet, and i am getting this from a source. And you can correct me, if im wrong. That berman didnt name trump as a coconspirator. Michael cohen did. He excused himself from the Michael Cohen matter. And it is believed that trump wants him gone because his finance case is coming due, as well as going after rudy, who will who might roll on trump. Can you talk to me about that . Is any of that is that true . And did he excuse himself from the matter of Michael Cohen . He did. He did recuse himself. I dont know if that recusal remains in effect. But it is Michael Cohen, who said in open court, in a plea allocation that he did something at the direction of individual one, who we all know is the president of the United States. Essentially, saying this person is a coconspirator. Berman did the right thing. At least, according to the reporting. I dont know what the documentation is. I dont have inside knowledge and i dont think he came back on the case. I dont think he did. You know, i just think it it is it is hugely interesting that theyre choosing to do this, at this time. That jeff berman is an independent person, who follows in the great tradition of that office. You know, often named the soverei sovereignest of new york. Not speculate, announced in his book to erdogan, once i have my people in the Southern District, we can do something about these cases you are concerned about. The president doesnt like oversight. The president doesnt like inspectors general. The president doesnt like the Southern District of new york. And so, i feel bad for that office, for a lot of reasons. Among them, in about three years and three months, they will be on their fourth United States attorney. Thats not good for continuity. Thats not good for the enforcement of laws. Its not good for its not good for anybody. And i feel more strongly, obviously, and you can hear it in my voice because i used to run that place. But its the same kind of thing the president does at the state department, at the defense department, and all sorts of other places. He runs rough shot over government because he doesnt trust it. Unless it is fully in service of his personal interests, and that is a all he seems to care about. Tonight, the president firing one of the most important u. S. Attorneys in the United States. And now, the u. S. Attorney is saying im not going anywhere. Daring him. Or saying, you cant fire me. Well continue with this group, on the other side of the break. Dont go anywhere. [ ] think you need to buy expensive skincare products to see dramatic results . Try olay skin care. Just one jar of microsculpting cream has the hydrating power of 5 jars of a prestige cream, which helps plump skin cells and visibly smooth wrinkles. While new olay retinol24. Provides visibly smoother, brighter skin. For dramatic skincare results, try olay. And now receive 25 off your purchase at olay. Com brand power. Helping you buy better. Its kind of my quiet, alone time. Audible is a routine for me. Its like a fun night school for adults. I could easily be seduced into locking myself into a place where i do nothing but listen to books. I never was interested in historical fiction before, but im obsessed with it now. There are a lot of like, classic and big titles that i feel like i missed out since i dont have time to read, mean i might as well listen. If i want to catch up on the news or history or learn whats going on in the world, i can download a book and listen to it. Because i listened to her story over and over again, i made the decision to go ahead and follow my own dream, which was to help other veterans. I think theres like 180 books in my, in my library now. It changes your perspective; it makes you a different person. Its true, its so true. To start your free 30day trial, just text listen25 to 500500. News. President trump forcing out the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, or trying to. But Geoffrey Berman is refusing to step down. Lets get back now to evan perez, preet, and laura coates. Evan, you wanted to jump in. We read the statement, Geoffrey Berman basically saying you cant fire me. To pursue Justice Without fear or favor and intend to ensure this offices important cases continue, unimpeded. Yeah. No, don, thats sets up a really interesting legal question that i, frankly, dont know what the answer is. I dont know whether berman is is is right that the attorney general doesnt have the power to fire him. It does it is not something that weve ever seen before. Where, frankly, just the circumstance that were living. Keep in mind, just the you know, weve seen this before in this administration. A lot of incompetence in the way they have handled a lot of things. And one of them is the fact that they never manage to get a senateconfirmed u. S. Attorney in manhattan. Think about that. It its one of the most important prosecution jobs prosecutor jobs, in this country. And they never bothered to even get it done. And so, its this is the reason why berman is sitting there, in that office, an appointee of the court. Because they could never actually get their stuff together. So this is, now, the reason why berman is saying you cant fire me because i was put here by the judges in the Southern District of new york. And well see whether or not hes right. I dont know whether he is or not. You know, whats interesting is go ahead, preet. Im sorry. And i have been thinking about it during the break because i havent had a lot of time. I imagine the people of the Southern District of new york have been furiously researching the question. The problem is, as many people may appreciate in the law, when you have something unprecedented and the law is not clear, its impossible to predict how it will play out. Im not aware of a situation, where you have a courtappointed United States attorney, who is attempted to be fired by the Justice Department and refuses to go. Do you send in the marshals to remove him . Does he, you know, blockade himself in the office . As an initial matter, you would think and this is just my top of my head legal reasoning. The first court that would think about addressing the issue is the very court, the Southern District of new york you know, he was put there by trump but they took the initiative to appoint him for for a permanent term. Unless, theres, you know, a future senateconfirmed person. So i would imagine by the way, also an inside dependeinde court. Is going to be sympathetic to berman and by the way, theyve had three and a half years to find a senateconfirmed person they could put in there and they havent done it. So i think the first move goes to geoff berman. Just quickly, i want to ask you, preet or anyone on the panel do we know how many cases . Or if what is in front of the Southern District of new york, as it relates to donald trump or President Trump or the campaign or the administration . Does anyone know whats there . That relate to Campaign Finance violations. That thats the basis of a lot of the case of course involving Rudy Giuliani, the Trump Campaign, all about lev parnas and other associates. Many of the cases that relate to donald trump or those in his orbit are related to Campaign Finance violations. Or funneling foreign money into a u. S. Election. And so, if youre if youre wondering about the umbrella of cases that could offend the president of the United States or the Trump Campaign going forward, i suspect its the cases that directly relate to issues that are, as the president said earlier today, his campaign is going to start tomorrow. Well, here we are. Although, you recognize, of course, don, that perhaps his entire administration has been one reelection campaign. But technically, in his mind, it starts tomorrow. And we have a firing situation where you have at the heart of what berman has overseen, excuse me. Laura, what does this say about the attorney general . About bill barr . The man in charge of the Justice Department. Well, remember the u. S. Attorneys answer to the attorney general, they serve at the pleasure of the president. So what you are seeing is exactly what a judge, here, in washington, d. C. , has spoken about you know, quite explicitly about barr, as others have opined on the issue. About the fact that he is serving, perhaps, an audience of one. And, in doing so, undermines the morale across the board of career prosecutors who have a vested interest in being independent. Who dont want their offices vulnerable to political sway. If, in some way dush and and know what his particular role is here but if, in some way it adds another log to the fire for people burning about their their problems with this attorney general. And his inability to really boost or contribute to morale and career prosecutors ability to do their job. Evan, you have covered as laura said the umbrella of cases that she is talking about. Specifically, as it relates as i recall, werent there a number of of unsealed indictments that were never acted upon during the initial phases or that we havent heard about, since all of this started . On the Mueller Investigation, are you talking about the outgrowth of the Mueller Investigation . Look. There was a bunch of things that were send up to new york. Right. And we know, at one point, they were looking into the trump organization. None of that ever came to to pass as, you know, bringing any any charges against anybody. But, keep in mind, don, that there are things that, you know, perhaps the fbi and prosecutors may have thats open on their desks. That they know because the president is sitting president , he cannot be charged with anything. But you can certainly wait till he is out of office to take action. And i think you know, i think thats thats the thing that, if youre donald trump and if youre his lawyers, thats what you worry more about with the Southern District of new york. You worry about what they can do to you, after you leave office. After you are no longer protected by the immunity that he enjoys right now, right . And so, i think bill barr and people around him trying to figure out a way to have more direct control of this office. The president says the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york is out. But that u. S. Attorney, saying im not going anywhere. Well continue, right after this. The post office they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps. Com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the Amazing Services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again and its mission is to make sleep. Feel cool. So, no more night sweats. No more nocturnal baking. No highblast ceiling fans. Or polar ice cap airconditioner mode. Because the tempurpedic breeze delivers superior cooling. From cover to core. Helping you sleep cool, all night long. During the tempurpedic summer of sleep, its the perfect time to experience the mattress ranked number one in Customer Satisfaction by jd power. Learn more at tempurpedic. Com by jd power. This virus is testing all of us. And its testing the people on the front lines of this fight most of all. So abbott is getting new tests into their hands, delivering the critical results they need. And until this fight is over, we. Will. Never. Quit. Because they never quit. Okay. So here we go. The breaking news on a friday night. Again, when it comes to this administration. President trump trying to force out the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york. Geoffrey berman, refusing to step down. What does all of this mean . Back with evan perez, preet, and laura coates. Okay. So lets talk about big picture here. What is what does all of do we know what this means . And whats going to happen yet, preet . Or is the law not clear . We dont. Ive been trying, during the two commercial breaks, to look at my phone and talk to folks. Opinion from 1979 that someone sent me about the removal of courtappointed u. S. Attorneys. There is another provision in the u. S. Code that says sort of, unequivocally, that the that the president that every u. S. Attorney shall be removable by the president of the United States. But thats in the section that contemplates appointment by the president and confirmation by the senate. A long way of saying if you are going to pay me, as a lawyer, to render an opinion, im going to need a little bit more time. Okay. Laura, could the president go to the the Supreme Court of United States and say, okay. Deal with this. Even though, that they theyre done with hearing cases. Is that possible . Well, you can certainly make an emergency motion with the Supreme Court on matters. But remember, this is the same president who tweeted, what, just yesterday or two days ago, you think the Supreme Court doesnt like me very much on a number of issues . So i hwonder if hell be reluctant to do so in this capacity. The Supreme Court has often referred to executive branch on matters, we know involving National Security matters and the like. What seems to be uncharted territory, and get another instance where our democracy and separation of powers and the appointment power of the president is being tested. And were finding, in many respects, that when it says in case of emergency, break glass, you are not finding a whole lot of meat behind it because a lot of whats been done has been about protocol. Has been about a pattern of behavior and precedent. And again, we are seeing another incident of unprecedented time here. But i have to wonder how it will look in actuality. At some point, he will have to be or will be shut out of communication and correspondence if he is no longer there at the pleasure of the president. And i cant imagine the attorney general, whos been sort of the righthand man of this president , would say, well, lets continue to envelope him into the conversations of consequence. So it might be that he is physically there but by only in terms of actual occupation of the office, not in terms of being able to run it effectively. And if that begins to happen, if there are some orders coming down from the attorney general, say, to a career prosecutor, and we already know there has been instances where the ag has or current u. S. Attorneys were in for a really sticky situation that i think does not serve justice. At some point, the question will be, for this u. S. Attorney, is this the way to go down, in terms of the course of conduct . Do you want to invite the courts in, to have some precedent established . Or do you want to go, quietly, off into the night . It seems, he is not choosing the latter. And im still wondering why is he so adamant . Is it because the same reasons hes been praised by members of his office right now. That he has sort of bucked the system of a person interviewed by this president , hand chosen, unlike any other u. S. Attorney with a personal interview. Is there something about his political independence thats gone under the craw of this administration . Evan, quick question for you. Lets go back to the central question here. Sorry, go on. Obviously, you can tell i am attached to the issue. A real crisis was averted because, in my case, when i was fired, i had to leave that day. In the Justice Department, jeff berman is being told hes got two weeks so the question doesnt have to be resolved at this moment. And what i am sensing and hearing from because the legal question is not crystal clear, geoff berman and his people are researching the question and trying to see whether or not, for now, he has a good leg to stand on so he doesnt have to go. If between back and forth between him and the attorney general and the Justice Department, the case is much more clear they do have the power to fire him, then i presume he will go. If, on the other hand, the weight of the law is on his side, as i research it further because we have this twoweek period, they know he period, then hell stay. But i think he is taking the strong position because he doesnt have to leave right away. Okay. Evan, i have got to get back to the central question here because you cover this, every single day. The central question is why would they want him out . Well, i think the the central reason is simply that bill barr wants somebody there, that he can trust, don. I think bill barr wants wants more control, frankly, over this department. And geoff berman is not somebody that he felt that he could control. I know they spoke probably once every three to four weeks. If youll remember, just a few months ago, the attorney general appointed the the u. S. Attorney in brooklyn to be the guy to handle all ukraine matters. Because he knew that berman was already investigating giulianis ukrainian friends. So that was always a strange arrangement. And it was it was seen as a sign that the attorney general wanted somebody that he felt was loyal. Somebody that he trusted to handle a sensitive matter, like the ukraine stuff. So we know that that is one reason why why he did that. And so, perhaps, again, it may not be just about one case in particular. It just, simply, may be that the attorney general feels that the Southern District of new york was acting a little bit too, frankly, ornery. They behaving just the way they always behave, which is a little too independent. And he wanted more firm control, and this is how he can do it. Well, if were going to have the breaking news we had tonight, i have the Perfect Group with me. The person who used to run the office and and the person who covers it. And the person who is an expert on all those matters. Like deja vu all over again. Thank you all. Deja vu all over again for preet. Thank you. Well be right back. I got an oriole here. Eh. Common bird. Ooh look over here something much better. There it is. Peacock, included with xfinity x1. Remarkable. Fascinating. Very. It streams tons of your favorite shows and movies, plus the latest in sports news and. Huh run the newest streaming app has landed on xfinity x1. Now thats. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity x1 just got even better with peacock premium included at no additional cost. No strings attached. Just say peacock into your voice remote to start watching today. Marches and rallies across the country today to mark juneteenth, commemorating the end of slavery in the United States. Thousands of people, out in the streets, calling for unity and justice. Just weeks after the video of a Police Officer with his knee on George Floyds neck shocked the nation. Lets discuss now. Bryan stephenson is here. He is a civil rights lawyer and the founder and executive director of the equal justice initiative. Brian, love having you on. Youre always so knowledgeable. Thank you so much. Weve seen marches and celebrations, all across this country today, on this juneteenth holiday. Commemorating the end of slavery in the United States. Whats your reaction to this historic date getting such heightened attention this year . I think its really exciting, don. I mean, we have never reckoned with our history of slavery. Weve never really talked about it. When you go to south africa, everything tells you that there was a period of apartheid that the nation had to struggle to overcome. If you go to rwanda, rwandans will insist on making sure you know what happened during that terrible genocide almost 30 years ago. When you go to germany, the landscape is covered with memorials and monuments. You cant go 200 meters without encountering something that speaks to the horror and the shame of the holocaust. But, in this country, weve never really reckoned with the legacy of slavery. Its only in the last five years that weve even had museums that talk honestly about what that legacy represents. And then, in this region, which you well know, the landscape is littered with this very confusing iconography, where we actually celebrate and laud and honor the perpetrators of enslavement. And so, im excited by this increased activity. Im excited by this increased activism because i believe we have never really committed to a truth and justice era. And we really, desperately, need that because all of the other issues that we have been talking about. Police violence, mass incarceration, disproportionate impact of covid19. All of those problems are related to this legacy of racial injustice, that weve just never addressed. And im excited by what im seeing today. Yeah. Asked a number of people today about juneteenth, and about specifically, about what happened in tulsa with black wall street. People had no idea. Many people had no idea. So, finally, there is some, at least, larger awareness of it. Brian, today the former president barack obama tweeted this. He said juneteenth has never been a celebration or a victory or an acceptance of the way things are. It is a celebration of progress. It is an affirmation that despite the most painful parts of our history, change is possible. There is still so much work to do. Compare that to our current president saying that he made juneteenth famous. Well, i do think it reveals the just extraordinary ignorance that exists in this country. And our inability to talk honestly about what the institution of slavery really represents. We put out a report this week that actually revealed that there were 2,000 more lynching victims in the 12 years following the civil war than had been previously documented. And we dont really understand the significance of this. Ive talked about this before. But i really believe the great evil of slavery wasnt the involuntary servitude and the forced labor. It was this idea we created that black people are less deserving, less worthy, less capable. And that idea, which was the centerpiece of this ideology of white supremacy, that was the enduring evil of slavery. And it was so strong that it defeated the 14th amendment, which should have protected black people after celebrating juneteenth. And maintained their ability to to to make progress. It was greater than the 15th amendment, which would gave black people the white to vote but was never enforced. So we have had 100 years of jim crow and segregation and exclusion and police violence, without any kind of meaningful effort or response. And thats about this ideology. And i think President Trumps remarks reflect the way in which weve never dealt with it. We have never talked about it. Most people have almost no understanding of what happens at the end of the civil war, and the legacy and the problems that it creates for us, today. So we do need more leadership. We do need to commit to this period of truth and justice. I just believe, don, that there is Something Better waiting for us. There is something that feels more like freedom and equality and justice than you and i have been able to experience, during our lifetimes. Theres something that waiting for us that might rid us that burdens black and brown people, that makes us vulnerable, that keeps us from being overpoliced and overconvicted and over senten sentenced. We wont get there if we cant talk honestly about this era. Its not a joke. Its not something we can pass off. I think we need an era of truth in justice. But we wont get there until we talk about the problems of the racial inequality in our society. I cant thank you more. I invite you and others because we a
vimarsana.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.