Transcripts For CNNW Cuomo Prime Time 20190509 : vimarsana.c

President s blockade of oversight. Will executive privilege over the Mueller Report hold up in the courts . And another young hero gives his life trying to save his classmates. The parents who just laid their hero son to rest after he too sacrificed his life for his classmates just last week are here in search of answers. What do you say . Lets get after it. Constitutional crisis. Thats what the house judiciary chair calls this new era of deny and defy by the president. We knew the contempt vote was likely coming today, but who knew republicans would subpoena a member of the president s family. If the Republicanled Intelligence Committee wants donald trump jr. To answer for some things, is that still a witch hunt . Lets bring in a key player in the house efforts to get barr to deliver the full report. Congressman ted lieu of california, good to have you back on prime time. Thank you, chris. What do you think of the shocker there in the senate, by the way, asking for the president s son . I am very pleased that some republicans are now putting at least country above party, and you cant read the Mueller Report and not come away thinking, whoa, there is some really bad stuff in here and we need to get to the bottom of what russia did as well as look at all the obstruction of justice cases that Robert Mueller laid out in the ten instances that he did. Two things. One, the idea that richard burr is not a real republican in the eyes of the trump family if he subpoenas a member of the trump family. Senator burr is looking at the same thing we are looking at. When you read volume i of the Mueller Report it shows that the Trump Campaign officials had multiple interactions with russian agents. They knew russia was going to interfere in americas elections. They welcomed it, embraced it, thought it was going to help donald trump. That is immoral, unpatriotic and wrong and i think they want to hear from donald trump jr. More about his interactions with russian agents. Specifically a couple of discrepancies between what he might have told congress and what was put forth in the mueller probe. One, that he says he didnt tell his father and he told nobody but kushner and manafort who were at the trump tower meeting about it. However, another witness, gates, says he told an entire meeting of staff and other trump family members. How big a deal . This is a pretty big deal because it could be perjury by donald trump jr. This is why its so important to get the full unredacted Mueller Report, as was all the underlying evidence. Every special counsel and special prosecutors report before this, theyve all been presented to congress unredacted. Leon jaworski and watergate, congress got the full report. Ken starr, congress got the full report. So attorney general bill barr is going way out of his way to disregard prior precedent. The American People and the public should get all the information. Janet reno, branch davidian, those specific National Security issues that people agreed on. The other issue they say with trump jr. Is that he didnt tell them as much as he could have about how much interest there was in the trump moscow deal going on, and that Michael Cohen told them that the kids were well aware and interested in this deal Going Forward. How big a deal is that . Any one of these instances are pretty mindblowing. Right now we know that you had donald Trump Campaigning to be president of the United States at the same time hes trying to get a trump moscow tower built in russia. So what . That is a massive conflict of interest. Why . Because trump may be taking actions that benefit him and his family and help russia, not the American People and not america. And thats why we need the full unredacted Mueller Report and all the underlying evidence, and the House Judiciary Committee and the House Intel Committee have now issued subpoenas for the full report. So you guys vote on holding the a. G. In contempt in the House Judiciary Committee. The president preempts by saying, well, now im going to assert privilege on all of this. I didnt have to give you any of the things that i did. I gave mueller everything i could. Now you do this . I give you nothing. Was it worth it . First of all, thats just a stupid argument by the administration. They waived all of this executive privilege because all these folks talked to Robert Mueller and his team. Once they did that the executive privilege was waived. That really is an argument that wont hold up in court. We should take a step back and ask, what is the administration doing . Theyre not stonewalling the judiciary committee, theyre stonewalling all committees, which shows theyre trying to hide information from the American People or that is in direct violation to the constitution. Two points that i need you to deal with. One is, its one thing to waive privilege to the executive and another thing in applying that privilege to congress. Thats one argument. The second argument is, they dont want you to have a second bite at the apple. They dont want you to relitigate what mueller already chewed over. So on the first point, that is nowhere in the case law. Once you speak to somebody else, youve waived privilege unless that person is your own attorney. Then in terms of relitigating this case, the way that Robert Mueller did his report, he basically said, look, i cant indict a sitting president so im not even going to decide the issue of whether there is enough evidence to indict donald trump. Instead, im going to lay out the evidence and then let congress decide. Which is why we need the full report plus the underlying evidence, otherwise we cant do our job. Well, as we saw today, ironically, there was a settlement in the case between the doj during the Obama Administration and the House Committee that they were fighting with over fast and furious document turnover and information from the doj. The timing of that aside, the lesson is this can last forever if it goes to court. Whats your strategy here to get what you want before all of my hair is gray . That is a great question. So we learn the lessons from the a. G. Holder case. Were going to be doing it a different way. We believe we can get a pretty quick hearing in the courts if the house floor also votes for contempt, and we believe well get a good court ruling. In addition, we also have inherent contempt power. So the house votes to hold bill barr in contempt then we can do our own internal congressional processes to levee fines on him without having to go to court. Ted lieu, i appreciate this. Everything is helping. Every day it is different. Thats why we need you folks to way in and let the people know which way were headed. Thank you, sir. Thank you, chris. Any way you look at it, a wild day. Two topics to tackle. Why would the president s party go after his first born and can this potus do anything about it . We have facts for you on that. Plus, how does executive privilege apply to the unredacted Mueller Report . The president invoked it. You just heard the argument against the argument. What about the argument for the argument . A former a. G. , mike mukasey, takes it up next. Calling all sunscreen haters. Youre gonna love this. New coppertone sport clear. Not thick, not hot, not messy, just clear, cool, protected. Coppertone sport clear. Proven to protect. [woof] morning. What are you doing . Isnt it obvious . Nah. Were delivering live market coverage and offering expert analysis completely free. Were helping you make sense of the markets without cable or a subscription from anywhere you are. I get that. But what are you doing here . Nice pajamas. Really . I say pajamas. Pajamas, pajamas, whichever. Good. Yahoo finance live. Stream free anywhere. Welcome to the show. Lets make finance make sense. But allstate actually helps you drive safely. With drivewise. It lets you know when you go too fast. And brake too hard. With feedback to help you drive safer. Giving you the power to actually lower your cost. Unfortunately, it cant do anything about that. Now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . Mom, whats for dinner . Just water. Lots and lots of water. You wouldnt feed your kids just water, so why starve your plants . Feed their hunger and get twice the results. New miraclegro performance organics. Im workin to make each day a little sweeter. To give every idea the perfect soundtrack. To fill your world with fun. To share my culture with my community. To make each journey more elegant. Im working for all the adventure two wheels can bring. At adp were designing a better way to work, so you can achieve what youre working for. So the senate Intelligence Committee is now demanding the president s namesake show up and testify again. Subpoena the president s oldest son has testified before Congress Already three times, at least 22 hours. All you saying i like this, i dont like this, hold on. Lets get through what matters here before everyone decides, all right . The issue seems to be a few things may not add up between what mr. Trump told congress and whats in the Mueller Report. First, whom donald trump jr. Told about the june 2016 trump tower meeting. Jr. Told senators he wouldnt have wasted his fathers time with it and that he only discussed it with Jared Kushner and paul manafort, who were both, of course, at the meeting. When asked was there anyone else, no, not to my recollection was jr. s response. Recollections going to be the key word. Ill tell you why in a second. Or youll see why. In the Mueller Report, rick gates tells a different story, saying just days before the infamous gettogether, jr. Was at a Morning Campaign meeting and told a group of top staff and trump families that he had a lead on negative information about the clinton foundation. I thought it was about adoption. Mueller says he considered bringing charges for the trump tower meeting. Stopping only because he wasnt sure jr. Knew he was breaking the law. The reason that mueller couldnt tell what he knew is was jr. Never talked to the special counsel. Like father like son in that regard. In fact, the report says he turned down a request for an interview. Then in the report there are three lines of redacted text. Another issue. His fathers attempt to build the trump tower moscow at the same time he was running for president. Now, jr. Told the senate he was only peripherally aware the project was under way. Played it down repeatedly on fox news. Take a listen. The reality is this wasnt a deal. You know, i dont think we dont know the developer, we dont know the site, we dont know the anything about it. I dont think anyone took it all that seriously. Thats the reality of what went on. However, Michael Cohen told congress a different story. Who were the family members that you briefed on the trump tower moscow project . Don trump jr. And ivanka trump. Do you recall how many of these briefings there might have been . Approximately ten. Okay. In total. The response from a source close to the president s eldest son is in a statement to cnn. No lawyer would ever agree to allow their client to participate in what is an obvious pr stunt from a socalled republican senator too cowardly to stand up to his boss, mark warner and the rest of the resistance democrats on the committee. Richard burr is a socalled republican . Ten years in the house, ten years in the senate. Wow. Only in trumpland. What the statement doesnt tell you is reportedly jr. s lawyers went from, quote, lets talk about it to coming in to considering pleading the fifth after the Mueller Report came out. Now what makes this different than so many other subpoenas and efforts of congressional oversight is that this president cant claim privilege. This president cant have his heavies run interference. Not this time. Jr. Is outside their protection because he is a private citizen. Now, does a former bush a. G. See a way for the trumps to win this standoff . The better question may be, should they . Mike mukasey next. With advil liquigels, what stiff joints . What bad back . Advil is. Relief thats fast. Strength that lasts. Youll ask. What pain . With advil liquigels. Onmillionth order. R. There goes our first big order. 44, 45, 46. How many of these did they order . Ooh, thats hot. You know, we could sell these. Nah. We dont bake. Opportunity. What we deliver by delivering. Welcome to our lounge. Enjoy your stay. Thanks very much. Find calm in over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide. Its another way weve got your back. The business Platinum Card from american express. Dont do business without it. Introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts. And zero minimums to open an account. At fidelity, those zeros really add up. Maybe ill win, saved by zero all right. The president is stonewalling. He does not believe in any of his oversight. He doesnt think its a righteous use of power. Now the latest iteration, his son is refusing to talk to his own Party Members in the senate. Thats the state of play. Lets bring in the former attorney general mike mukasey. Welcome back to prime time. Always a pleasure, counselor. Good to be here. So trump jr. Right. Private citizen. President cant protect him the way he would obviously people in his administration. What do you make of the posture of im not coming in . Dont know really what to make of it. I think that the meeting itself turns out to have been inconsequential. Which meeting . The trump tower meeting. Oh, the trump tower meeting. Okay. Right. If thats what theyre talking about. Do we know that . We believe that there are two discrepancies between his congressional testimony and the Mueller Report. Okay. One involves that and one involves trump the potential deal that they were looking at. But lets say there are discrepancies. Okay. Lets say they are as reported. He says he told nobody but kushner and manafort and it turns out he mentioned it at this meeting and he said to the best of my recollection when he was in front of congress. What do you got on him . Very little. Because as you said in your piece, that was his recollection. Number one. Number two, the meeting itself was inconsequential so there was very little reason for him to remember it. Mueller said it was inconsequential legally because he couldnt decide whether or not kushner knew he doing something illegal. Hes promised something. It turns out what hes really interested. Something else. This russian operative is interested in getting the sanctions lifted on the russians and doing and holing out the bait of resuming, allowing americans to adopt russian children. How important is his intent, mike, that he went there looking for Something Else . How important is it in connection with what . In connection with how the law might apply and just in terms of your ethical standard. This is not about ethical standards. Was it a good idea for him to accept the meeting at which he thought he was going to be getting dirt from a foreign power . No. Its terrible judgement. Wrong. It is wrong, yes . It is terrible judgement. But its wrong if its terrible judgement. Correct. When is terrible judgement right . Never. Is it behavior that would qualify as collusion . Cleverly trying to get something from somebody else, whether it succeeds or not. Collusion is a term, which weve said several times, is not known to the law. True. Its not collusion. If somebody offers you something and you go to find out what it is, you havent colluded yet. Not yet. Correct. But you are going down that road. Something you want to know about. Its the first couple of steps and then you have the meeting and find out theyre not offering anything. At which point nothing happens. We dont know anything happened after. Okay. So trump tower moscow. Different story. You said you didnt know anything about it. It was just peripheral. Cohen says he told you ten times. Lets say he can substantiate that somehow. He could corroborate it. I dont know that he could. But lets give the benefit of the doubt. Trump, as we have found out from other sources, is really in the business of renting his name. Yes. He doesnt do what he a lot of what he claims to do. If he was talking about renting his name to somebody in moscow for a building then thats something to look at, but its certainly not like building a major project. Why say you plead the fifth . Why would trump jr. Want to plead the fifth after the Mueller Report . Because anything that develops an inconsistency is a step toward a prosecution. The president says if you plead the fifth youre guilty. Yes. Guess what . The president isnt the reigning expert on that subject or many other subjects, as hes proved. Proof of why you shouldnt say things like that out of hand. Correct. Because in truth hes got every right to take the fifth. The fifth is there to protect the innocent as well as the guilty. You may not know. You may not want to go through the process. You may not trust the process and this is your right to correct yourself. Protect yourself. Correct. If i was his lawyer, thats one thing i would advise him to consider. Now you have this confounding question in terms of what the president has the right to do blocking oversight and what is right to do. I know you find that cumbersome. Because your mind goes to the law. This is a political situation. It goes it what progress tifr the president wants to protect. For the sake of the next guy. That is a concern of the white house on an ongoing basis. Every time they consider one of these questions, they consider not only whats at stake now, but whats going to be at stake later on if we turn this over or not. Do you really believe that this president is worried about what precedent will be set for next administration . I believe that people in the Mueller Report<\/a> hold up in the courts . And another young hero gives his life trying to save his classmates. The parents who just laid their hero son to rest after he too sacrificed his life for his classmates just last week are here in search of answers. What do you say . Lets get after it. Constitutional crisis. Thats what the house judiciary chair calls this new era of deny and defy by the president. We knew the contempt vote was likely coming today, but who knew republicans would subpoena a member of the president s family. If the Republicanled Intelligence Committee<\/a> wants donald trump jr. To answer for some things, is that still a witch hunt . Lets bring in a key player in the house efforts to get barr to deliver the full report. Congressman ted lieu of california, good to have you back on prime time. Thank you, chris. What do you think of the shocker there in the senate, by the way, asking for the president s son . I am very pleased that some republicans are now putting at least country above party, and you cant read the Mueller Report<\/a> and not come away thinking, whoa, there is some really bad stuff in here and we need to get to the bottom of what russia did as well as look at all the obstruction of justice cases that Robert Mueller<\/a> laid out in the ten instances that he did. Two things. One, the idea that richard burr is not a real republican in the eyes of the trump family if he subpoenas a member of the trump family. Senator burr is looking at the same thing we are looking at. When you read volume i of the Mueller Report<\/a> it shows that the Trump Campaign<\/a> officials had multiple interactions with russian agents. They knew russia was going to interfere in americas elections. They welcomed it, embraced it, thought it was going to help donald trump. That is immoral, unpatriotic and wrong and i think they want to hear from donald trump jr. More about his interactions with russian agents. Specifically a couple of discrepancies between what he might have told congress and what was put forth in the mueller probe. One, that he says he didnt tell his father and he told nobody but kushner and manafort who were at the trump tower meeting about it. However, another witness, gates, says he told an entire meeting of staff and other trump family members. How big a deal . This is a pretty big deal because it could be perjury by donald trump jr. This is why its so important to get the full unredacted Mueller Report<\/a>, as was all the underlying evidence. Every special counsel and special prosecutors report before this, theyve all been presented to congress unredacted. Leon jaworski and watergate, congress got the full report. Ken starr, congress got the full report. So attorney general bill barr is going way out of his way to disregard prior precedent. The American People<\/a> and the public should get all the information. Janet reno, branch davidian, those specific National Security<\/a> issues that people agreed on. The other issue they say with trump jr. Is that he didnt tell them as much as he could have about how much interest there was in the trump moscow deal going on, and that Michael Cohen<\/a> told them that the kids were well aware and interested in this deal Going Forward<\/a>. How big a deal is that . Any one of these instances are pretty mindblowing. Right now we know that you had donald Trump Campaign<\/a>ing to be president of the United States<\/a> at the same time hes trying to get a trump moscow tower built in russia. So what . That is a massive conflict of interest. Why . Because trump may be taking actions that benefit him and his family and help russia, not the American People<\/a> and not america. And thats why we need the full unredacted Mueller Report<\/a> and all the underlying evidence, and the House Judiciary Committee<\/a> and the House Intel Committee<\/a> have now issued subpoenas for the full report. So you guys vote on holding the a. G. In contempt in the House Judiciary Committee<\/a>. The president preempts by saying, well, now im going to assert privilege on all of this. I didnt have to give you any of the things that i did. I gave mueller everything i could. Now you do this . I give you nothing. Was it worth it . First of all, thats just a stupid argument by the administration. They waived all of this executive privilege because all these folks talked to Robert Mueller<\/a> and his team. Once they did that the executive privilege was waived. That really is an argument that wont hold up in court. We should take a step back and ask, what is the administration doing . Theyre not stonewalling the judiciary committee, theyre stonewalling all committees, which shows theyre trying to hide information from the American People<\/a> or that is in direct violation to the constitution. Two points that i need you to deal with. One is, its one thing to waive privilege to the executive and another thing in applying that privilege to congress. Thats one argument. The second argument is, they dont want you to have a second bite at the apple. They dont want you to relitigate what mueller already chewed over. So on the first point, that is nowhere in the case law. Once you speak to somebody else, youve waived privilege unless that person is your own attorney. Then in terms of relitigating this case, the way that Robert Mueller<\/a> did his report, he basically said, look, i cant indict a sitting president so im not even going to decide the issue of whether there is enough evidence to indict donald trump. Instead, im going to lay out the evidence and then let congress decide. Which is why we need the full report plus the underlying evidence, otherwise we cant do our job. Well, as we saw today, ironically, there was a settlement in the case between the doj during the Obama Administration<\/a> and the House Committee<\/a> that they were fighting with over fast and furious document turnover and information from the doj. The timing of that aside, the lesson is this can last forever if it goes to court. Whats your strategy here to get what you want before all of my hair is gray . That is a great question. So we learn the lessons from the a. G. Holder case. Were going to be doing it a different way. We believe we can get a pretty quick hearing in the courts if the house floor also votes for contempt, and we believe well get a good court ruling. In addition, we also have inherent contempt power. So the house votes to hold bill barr in contempt then we can do our own internal congressional processes to levee fines on him without having to go to court. Ted lieu, i appreciate this. Everything is helping. Every day it is different. Thats why we need you folks to way in and let the people know which way were headed. Thank you, sir. Thank you, chris. Any way you look at it, a wild day. Two topics to tackle. Why would the president s party go after his first born and can this potus do anything about it . We have facts for you on that. Plus, how does executive privilege apply to the unredacted Mueller Report<\/a> . The president invoked it. You just heard the argument against the argument. What about the argument for the argument . A former a. G. , mike mukasey, takes it up next. Calling all sunscreen haters. Youre gonna love this. New coppertone sport clear. Not thick, not hot, not messy, just clear, cool, protected. Coppertone sport clear. Proven to protect. [woof] morning. What are you doing . Isnt it obvious . Nah. Were delivering live market coverage and offering expert analysis completely free. Were helping you make sense of the markets without cable or a subscription from anywhere you are. I get that. But what are you doing here . Nice pajamas. Really . I say pajamas. Pajamas, pajamas, whichever. Good. Yahoo finance live. Stream free anywhere. Welcome to the show. Lets make finance make sense. But allstate actually helps you drive safely. With drivewise. It lets you know when you go too fast. And brake too hard. With feedback to help you drive safer. Giving you the power to actually lower your cost. Unfortunately, it cant do anything about that. Now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . Mom, whats for dinner . Just water. Lots and lots of water. You wouldnt feed your kids just water, so why starve your plants . Feed their hunger and get twice the results. New miraclegro performance organics. Im workin to make each day a little sweeter. To give every idea the perfect soundtrack. To fill your world with fun. To share my culture with my community. To make each journey more elegant. Im working for all the adventure two wheels can bring. At adp were designing a better way to work, so you can achieve what youre working for. So the senate Intelligence Committee<\/a> is now demanding the president s namesake show up and testify again. Subpoena the president s oldest son has testified before Congress Already<\/a> three times, at least 22 hours. All you saying i like this, i dont like this, hold on. Lets get through what matters here before everyone decides, all right . The issue seems to be a few things may not add up between what mr. Trump told congress and whats in the Mueller Report<\/a>. First, whom donald trump jr. Told about the june 2016 trump tower meeting. Jr. Told senators he wouldnt have wasted his fathers time with it and that he only discussed it with Jared Kushner<\/a> and paul manafort, who were both, of course, at the meeting. When asked was there anyone else, no, not to my recollection was jr. s response. Recollections going to be the key word. Ill tell you why in a second. Or youll see why. In the Mueller Report<\/a>, rick gates tells a different story, saying just days before the infamous gettogether, jr. Was at a Morning Campaign<\/a> meeting and told a group of top staff and trump families that he had a lead on negative information about the clinton foundation. I thought it was about adoption. Mueller says he considered bringing charges for the trump tower meeting. Stopping only because he wasnt sure jr. Knew he was breaking the law. The reason that mueller couldnt tell what he knew is was jr. Never talked to the special counsel. Like father like son in that regard. In fact, the report says he turned down a request for an interview. Then in the report there are three lines of redacted text. Another issue. His fathers attempt to build the trump tower moscow at the same time he was running for president. Now, jr. Told the senate he was only peripherally aware the project was under way. Played it down repeatedly on fox news. Take a listen. The reality is this wasnt a deal. You know, i dont think we dont know the developer, we dont know the site, we dont know the anything about it. I dont think anyone took it all that seriously. Thats the reality of what went on. However, Michael Cohen<\/a> told congress a different story. Who were the family members that you briefed on the trump tower moscow project . Don trump jr. And ivanka trump. Do you recall how many of these briefings there might have been . Approximately ten. Okay. In total. The response from a source close to the president s eldest son is in a statement to cnn. No lawyer would ever agree to allow their client to participate in what is an obvious pr stunt from a socalled republican senator too cowardly to stand up to his boss, mark warner and the rest of the resistance democrats on the committee. Richard burr is a socalled republican . Ten years in the house, ten years in the senate. Wow. Only in trumpland. What the statement doesnt tell you is reportedly jr. s lawyers went from, quote, lets talk about it to coming in to considering pleading the fifth after the Mueller Report<\/a> came out. Now what makes this different than so many other subpoenas and efforts of congressional oversight is that this president cant claim privilege. This president cant have his heavies run interference. Not this time. Jr. Is outside their protection because he is a private citizen. Now, does a former bush a. G. See a way for the trumps to win this standoff . The better question may be, should they . Mike mukasey next. With advil liquigels, what stiff joints . What bad back . Advil is. Relief thats fast. Strength that lasts. Youll ask. What pain . With advil liquigels. Onmillionth order. R. There goes our first big order. 44, 45, 46. How many of these did they order . Ooh, thats hot. You know, we could sell these. Nah. We dont bake. Opportunity. What we deliver by delivering. Welcome to our lounge. Enjoy your stay. Thanks very much. Find calm in over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide. Its another way weve got your back. The business Platinum Card<\/a> from american express. Dont do business without it. Introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts. And zero minimums to open an account. At fidelity, those zeros really add up. Maybe ill win, saved by zero all right. The president is stonewalling. He does not believe in any of his oversight. He doesnt think its a righteous use of power. Now the latest iteration, his son is refusing to talk to his own Party Members<\/a> in the senate. Thats the state of play. Lets bring in the former attorney general mike mukasey. Welcome back to prime time. Always a pleasure, counselor. Good to be here. So trump jr. Right. Private citizen. President cant protect him the way he would obviously people in his administration. What do you make of the posture of im not coming in . Dont know really what to make of it. I think that the meeting itself turns out to have been inconsequential. Which meeting . The trump tower meeting. Oh, the trump tower meeting. Okay. Right. If thats what theyre talking about. Do we know that . We believe that there are two discrepancies between his congressional testimony and the Mueller Report<\/a>. Okay. One involves that and one involves trump the potential deal that they were looking at. But lets say there are discrepancies. Okay. Lets say they are as reported. He says he told nobody but kushner and manafort and it turns out he mentioned it at this meeting and he said to the best of my recollection when he was in front of congress. What do you got on him . Very little. Because as you said in your piece, that was his recollection. Number one. Number two, the meeting itself was inconsequential so there was very little reason for him to remember it. Mueller said it was inconsequential legally because he couldnt decide whether or not kushner knew he doing something illegal. Hes promised something. It turns out what hes really interested. Something else. This russian operative is interested in getting the sanctions lifted on the russians and doing and holing out the bait of resuming, allowing americans to adopt russian children. How important is his intent, mike, that he went there looking for Something Else<\/a> . How important is it in connection with what . In connection with how the law might apply and just in terms of your ethical standard. This is not about ethical standards. Was it a good idea for him to accept the meeting at which he thought he was going to be getting dirt from a foreign power . No. Its terrible judgement. Wrong. It is wrong, yes . It is terrible judgement. But its wrong if its terrible judgement. Correct. When is terrible judgement right . Never. Is it behavior that would qualify as collusion . Cleverly trying to get something from somebody else, whether it succeeds or not. Collusion is a term, which weve said several times, is not known to the law. True. Its not collusion. If somebody offers you something and you go to find out what it is, you havent colluded yet. Not yet. Correct. But you are going down that road. Something you want to know about. Its the first couple of steps and then you have the meeting and find out theyre not offering anything. At which point nothing happens. We dont know anything happened after. Okay. So trump tower moscow. Different story. You said you didnt know anything about it. It was just peripheral. Cohen says he told you ten times. Lets say he can substantiate that somehow. He could corroborate it. I dont know that he could. But lets give the benefit of the doubt. Trump, as we have found out from other sources, is really in the business of renting his name. Yes. He doesnt do what he a lot of what he claims to do. If he was talking about renting his name to somebody in moscow for a building then thats something to look at, but its certainly not like building a major project. Why say you plead the fifth . Why would trump jr. Want to plead the fifth after the Mueller Report<\/a> . Because anything that develops an inconsistency is a step toward a prosecution. The president says if you plead the fifth youre guilty. Yes. Guess what . The president isnt the reigning expert on that subject or many other subjects, as hes proved. Proof of why you shouldnt say things like that out of hand. Correct. Because in truth hes got every right to take the fifth. The fifth is there to protect the innocent as well as the guilty. You may not know. You may not want to go through the process. You may not trust the process and this is your right to correct yourself. Protect yourself. Correct. If i was his lawyer, thats one thing i would advise him to consider. Now you have this confounding question in terms of what the president has the right to do blocking oversight and what is right to do. I know you find that cumbersome. Because your mind goes to the law. This is a political situation. It goes it what progress tifr the president wants to protect. For the sake of the next guy. That is a concern of the white house on an ongoing basis. Every time they consider one of these questions, they consider not only whats at stake now, but whats going to be at stake later on if we turn this over or not. Do you really believe that this president is worried about what precedent will be set for next administration . I believe that people in the White House Counsels Office<\/a> are worried about that. I believe people on his staff are worried about that. Whether hes worried about it, i dont know and i share some of your doubts. When you look at the categories of Different Things<\/a> that would amount to privilege, what do you have here . Because when you look at National Security<\/a>, well, they have clearance in congress. Certainly certain members of them have high clearance. Then the other categories. What would apply as privilege . What would apply is executive privilege. Why . Mcgahns disclosures. Because even if he doesnt work there anymore . Correct. Its not whether he works there anymore, its whether he worked there at the time that he made them. Does the privilege survive . Its not the privilege of me giving you 5 and you representing me in a case against someone else. Thats a complete privilege. This is an incomplete privilege. That privilege there are various ways that that survives. Number one, the disclosures that mcgahn made to mueller, which your last guest said were a complete waiver. Thats just flatout wrong. How do you know . Mueller is still a member of which branch of government . Executive. Thank you. Its executive privilege. Disclosure from one part of the executive to another part of the executive is not a waiver of the executive privilege. Who says . Its hard to find cases on point. Thats why i ask you. Okay. The concept is inconsistent with waiver. Number one. Number two, if it is a waiver, its as you know from law school, waivers are narrowly construed. Its a relinquishment of a right. Doesnt it go to the same corpus of fact . Its a question of the actual disclosure. He can be deemed to have made a waiver to the extent that any of those disclosures were disclosed. The larger question becomes why block and limited to that. You say you were fully exonerated. You say you have nothing to hide. Youre going to give everything you can. Everybody around him says hes always transparent, hes always giving everything. Hes giving nothing. Because the point of this is not to find out facts. We learned that when the report was made available on a far less redacted basis than it had been when originally disclosed, and three people came to look at it. Right. How Many Democrats<\/a> do you think were among them . Oh, youre saying you dont believe they want to look at facts because correct. They say they want the whole thing. They dont want to come and look at a limited thing. They want it all. Well, if they want if they want it all then it would be unlawful to disclose it all. You think mueller was out for facts, right . I think of course i think mueller was out for facts. Good. Thats a good thing to say. The question is what he did with them. Well, well see when we get the full unredacted report no, weve seen come off. 6 redacted. Mostly having to do with ongoing investigations. Its what percentage of it that you want to see. Please. Why not give it all if you have nothing to hide . Assuming its not about National Security<\/a> matters. Because why not just do it. Its about three things. National security matters, which you agree shouldnt be disclosed. Matters which affect ongoing cases, which i assume you think shouldnt be disclosed. And grand jury material, which is unlawful to disclose. You can go and petition a judge. No, you cant. Why cant you deal with the 6e material that way . Its been done before. No, you get a 6e order only for Law Enforcement<\/a> purposes. Thats the limit. So you cant do it for anything else . No, sir. The idea in blocking all of these things he attacking you cant do it to satisfy congressional curiosity. Well, it depends if it falls within their role of oversight. No, it doesnt depend on that they have a constitutional duty to to that. The law says you get a 6e order from a judge. Youre talking about just that. Im saying all of it in general. The president and his people keep arguing all of this is wrong. It goes wrong all the way back to fisa. Everything they did with surveillance was wrong, wrong, wrong and wrongly intentioned. Why spread is so wide like that when there is so little proof of the same . I dont know that who spread it that wide . The president says it all the time. Now theyre saying that was spying what was done with carter page. It was nefarious and wrongful. We have no reason to believe that. We have a lot of reasons to believe that something was done that shouldnt have been done. How do you know . They got the they got the fisa application for carter page. It was successively reauthorized. What was wrong with that . Based on incomplete information. Number one. Number two, the person who was the occasion for the surveillance, carter page. Yeah. Was never charged with anything. Who said he had to be . You had to make a showing and an allegation in that application not only that he was a Foreign Agent<\/a> but he was involved in the commission of a crime. That is not true. Yes, it is. To get a fisa application, you need to find probable cause he may be a Foreign Agent<\/a>, not that he committed a crime. No, for an american citizen, which carter page was, you need a showing that he was involved in the commission of a crime. I do not are you sure that thats the standard . Yes, i am. I have somebody from the doj involved in that who says its not the standard. You have to show that he had probable cause or you had probable cause chris, i will send you the statute by email. I have to check both boxes . Yes. For an american citizen. Not for a foreigner. If its an american citizen you need to check both boxes. Correct. Mike mukasey, i always appreciate you making the case. Good to be here. These are the discussions they should have. Im happy to have them with you. Took time on that. You know why . Because you have to consider these things. You cant just get it from twitter and have an opinion. Listen to the conversation. We bring people on who have been through it before. So a new name added to the list of those who have been lost by a problem that it doesnt seem to me were doing anything about. Not really. Kendrick ray castillo. Another hero. Just 18. High schooler. Had to make a decision to risk his own life or watch his classmates die in a colorado school. Why should he have to make that choice . He chose to take on the gunman. It comes just a week after College Student<\/a> riley howell shared the same fate. Our new normal. Rileys parents are here with questions and concerns we should all share. Next. Excuse me. Uh. Do you mind. Being a motour . What could be better than being a motour . The real question is. Do you mind not being a motour . I do. For those who were born to ride, theres progressive. I do. Book now and enjoy free unlimited open bar and more. Norwegian cruise line. Feel free. Too many people a restless nights sleep. Theres a better choice. Aleve pm. The only one to combine a safe sleep aid and the 12hour painrelieving strength of aleve. That dares to last into the morning. So you feel refreshed. Aleve pm. Theres a better choice. music throughout yeah, ive had some prettyeer. Prestigious jobs over the years. News producer, executive transport manager, and a beverage distribution supervisor. Now im a director at a Security Software<\/a> firm. Wow, youve been at it a long time. Thing is, i like working. What if my Retirement Plan<\/a> is i dont want to retire . Then lets not create a Retirement Plan<\/a>. Lets create a plan for whats next. I like that. Get a plan thats right for you. Td ameritrade. I receive travel rewards. Going new places going out for a bite going anytime. Rewarded learn more at theexplorercard. Com. So far this year 15 school shootings. What has it been like 19 weeks into the school year . 15 in 19 weeks. Yesterday it was the s. T. E. M. School in colorado 20 minutes from columbine. Kendrick castillo lunged at one of the shooters. He and his classmates helped disarm that attacker. Cost kendrick his life. Everybody else survived. The deja vu is so daunting. Just last week, 21yearold riley howell, blonde tarzan, tackling the unc charlotte shooter. Rileys parents, Thomas Howell<\/a> and Natalie Henry<\/a> howell, are our guests tonight. Listen, when i say this, i could not mean it more. It is my privilege to meet you, but, god, i wish i was meeting you under different circumstances than this. Thank you for taking this opportunity. Im sure it is a conversation you wish you never had to have. Thank you. It is. Natalie, how are we doing . How is it at home . How are you dealing with family . How are you dealing with this loss . Well, its still devastating. Im still seeing heres what im going to say, this past week i think ive seen the worst and the best of humanity. Ive seen somebody without regard for the sanctity of life and then ive seen this huge outpouring from family, friends and strangers of pure love. And im in this very strange place, and thats the best i can do to explain it right now, but my heart goes out goes out completely to these other families and communities who are going through the exact same thing. Natalie, what is the hardest thing for you to deal with emotionally in all of this . Like i said, the pain of losing my child and never, ever seeing him again. Im just like i said, we were having this conversation. Again, im not going to say anything different or new that parents or other families in this situation havent said before. But emotionally its just its just watching just watching people being torn up just like we are that this that this is this is just prevalent in our communities. Its, you know, watching my kids try to walk their way through life, through these last few days without riley, its just how to sustain them when its really hard to sustain ourselves. As a father, how do you reconcile the pride of knowing that in a moment when almost everyone runs away, something in your son made him run at the danger and save others. The proudest moment a parent could have with the worst potential outcome for any parent to deal with. How do you reconcile those as a father . Well, i havent yet. We are both broken, natalie and i both are, but my despair and my utter sadness is in the fact that i think riley was put in that situation because i knew exactly what he was going to do and natalie did as well. The fact that that ever happened to start with. We all know that rileys a protector and that was going to happen given any type of situation like that. Im just im having a hard time dealing with the fact that that ever that situation ever came up. What sense have you made of it so far . Im still broken, chris, you know . Im still trying to make minute by minute, still trying to take a breath. The next week, the same thing happens. What does that do to you, tom . Im going to let natalie answer that one because i dont have any answers. None of us do. None of us do. We seem to have nothing to say, we have nothing to do, we sit by and watch, we lionize kids like yours who do something that the rest of us seem unwilling to do. Im not saying in a moment of crisis. Im saying after every one of these. And i dont want to talk politics with you, natalie, but your son did something that Society Overall<\/a> has not been able to do, which is to confront this problem and run at it. And i think thats what weve got to do, too. I mean, my like i said, it is just terrible that more families and communities are going through this, and while im angry and i feel embattled, i think at the same time we have to instead of just lionize, we have to galvanize and we have to figure out how to come up with some constructive dialogue to keep this from happening. There just has to be some dialogue from people and all around so that we can never, ever, ever let a community have to go through this again. If only that was something that would be taken on. As you said, ive heard a lot of parents wish that. Not for themselves but for other parents, that they should never have to experience what youre going to have to deal with every day for who knows how long. Let me ask you Something Else<\/a> that is interesting in learning about riley. Natalie, why did you know that this is what your kid would do in this situation . You know how as a parent you have a sense of, like, the inner spirit of your child, like who they are to the depth of their soul . When riley was younger, i just always felt like he wouldnt be with me for that long, and just watching him, the way he was with other people, the way he was with his friends, the way he was with us, there was just something that was integral to his character and it was nurtured by teachers, by family members. We live in this small tightknit community and its just, you know, you look out for others, you protect, you do what needs to be done, and like i said, when i heard the classroom, i knew it. I just knew it. Yes, we both did. We just knew it. If hes anywhere near a situation like that, hes going to run towards it and try to stop it. Well, heres what we know for sure. Many of us go a lifetime trying to figure out whether we really made an impact on this place that we call home for a little bit of awhile. Whether or not weve mattered to anybody else in a way that is lasting. Your kid did not live that long, not long enough, thats for sure, but, tom, natalie, he made a difference in this world, for those families and those kids. Nothing else will ever come close to the gift he gave everybody in that classroom for what he did. More than anything else, i just hope that that profound sense of gratitude for those kids and the lives theyre going to be able to have and those families and what theyre able to keep, that you have lost, that matters something about what your son was able to achieve while he was here. And, again, my phone is open to you thank you so much. Whenever you want it. You can get us whenever you want it. If there is anything we can do to help you, you know we are there, but thank you for letting people see who is left behind after Something Like<\/a> this. Almost every time. Thank you so much. Natalie, thomas and thank you for thank you. Go ahead, natalie. What do you have . Thank you. I was just going to say i really want the light in rileys story to outshine the darkness and were trying to make that happen with our foundation that were starting, and everybody just remember that light is going to overpower the darkness. I will put out the word about your foundation. You let me know how the work is Going Forward<\/a> and we will do what we can to assist with that. It is a righteous cause. And i hope everybody remembers riley as the blonde tarzan that he was in that classroom, doing something that most would never imagine, let alone be able to achieve. God bless you both and thank you for bringing that son into this world. Thank you, chris. Thank you. Thank you for having us. You know, these conversations, how many have you heard . How many families like that . Were going to have an argument for you tonight that shouldnt have to be made 20 years after columbine, and we all know it, but weve got to face the reality. Thats what these moments call for, if nothing else. Cant run. You got to be like riley. You got to be like kendrick. You got to run at the problem. Next. Morning. What are you doing . Isnt it obvious . Nah. Were delivering live market coverage and offering expert analysis completely free. Were helping you make sense of the markets without cable or a subscription from anywhere you are. I get that. But what are you doing here . Nice pajamas. Really . I say pajamas. Pajamas, pajamas, whichever. Good. Yahoo finance live. Stream free anywhere. Welcome to the show. Lets make finance make sense. Welcome to the show. [woof] [woman] with sharks duo clean, i dont just clean, i deep clean carpets and floors, so i got this. Yep, this too, and this, please. Even long hair and pet hair are no problem, but the one thing i wont have to clean is this because the sharks selfcleaning brush roll removes the hair wrap while i clean. [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. Behr presents a job well done. Painting be done. And stay done. Behr premium plus, a toprated interior paint at a great price. That keeps all your doing, done. Find it exclusively at the home depot. Hey, who are you . Oh, hey jeff, im a car thief. What . im here to steal your car because, well, thats my job. What . What . . What . laughing what . . What . what . [crash] what . haha, it happens. And if youve got cutrate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. So get allstate. And be better protected from mayhem. Like me. To save 30 on all the medications we carry. So go directly to petmeds. Com now. You see the mob takes the fifth. If youre innocent, why are you taking the fifth amendment . When you have your staff taking the fifth amendment taking the fifth so theyre not prosecuted. I think its disgraceful. What if your son takes it . We know what the president was doing, right . He was playing to what he perceived as advantage at the time. Well, now what . Lets bring in don lemon. It was interesting to hear mike mukasey. You know how much i respect his legal acumen. So do you. A. G. Under president bush. You know, he quickly dismissed the president on the fifth amendment as he doesnt know what hes talking about. His son is in a pinch because hes a private citizen and the move of calling richard burr a socalled republican, hes hes asking for it right now, d. Lemon. Well, so far, you know, norms so many norms have been broken with this administration that its nothing surprises me anymore and probably most americans, but you have to continue on because this is the foundation of our country. Democracy, the rule of law, the rule of law, the rule of law. He is a private citizen but hes also deeply involved with his father politically. He is. Im saying he cant be protected with privilege. Because hes a private citizen he cant be protected, but i am saying hes deeply involved with his father when it comes to politics and hes deeply involved in the business, and he also testified in front of the senate. For 22 hours. Senate and house. 22 hours. He was there a lot. Remember, its a Republicanled Senate<\/a> so its interesting to me that the Republicanled Senate<\/a> wants him to come back and maybe clarify some things. Who knows. After mcconnell said case closed, burr, knows him well, do this you know it has to matter to them. It has to matter. And guess who i have coming up. I have the person who is the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee<\/a>, and that is jerry nadler. Hes going to join us live, and he is going to talk to us about don jr. And why he thinks they are calling don jr. Back to testify. Among other things, i talk to him about the president s taxes, released yesterday at the New York Times<\/a> and also about contempt, voting on contempt of congress for the attorney general william barr. Very strong. Stand by. I am jealous of don lemon once again. Two seconds. Riley howells family, amazing, and you did a great job with them. I just wish i didnt have to have that conversation again. They are strong people and he is the definition of a hero. Boy, oh, boy, thank god for them bringing that kid into this life. Otherwise who knows how many families would be shattered. Amen. Well said. See you in a bit. See you. To what don is talking about, we cant do what we do all the time. You cant watch that family and be moved and then forget about how they lost their son. Lets just look at whats going on around us. And im going to make an argument to you about what has to stop. Welcome to our lounge. Enjoy your stay. Thanks very much. Find calm in over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide. 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The xfinity store is here. And its simple, easy, awesome. 15 shootings, 19 weeks of school. Last week it was riley howell in north carolina, college kid running at a gunman in his classroom, sacrificing his life, saving countless others. This week, Kendrick Castillo<\/a> and his pals and others rushed another gunmen in their high school classroom, again likely saving many lives, again the sacrifice cost us a life, this time this kid kendrick. Because of what he did others are alive and i thank god for that. I love him and hes a hero. He always will be. But theres another part of you that wishes he would have just turned and ran, retreated, hid. You know, did something to put himself out of harms way, if that was possible. But we know kendrick, maria will tell you that its no surprise that if danger was facing him he would approach it, you know, and take it on. Imagine coming to a point where thats something that you know about your kids these days, that theyve learned to attack the attacker. I will not be a victim, says one of kendricks pals who ran toward the danger. Someone entered the building with incredibly malicious intent using their cowardice surprise and superior weapons and they lost, they completely and utterly lost to good people. Why in the world would i let this coward get what he wants. Im not a victim. We praise these kids, they are so brave. Brandon bailey you just heard from. Lucas albertoni, jackson gregory, joshua jones, shot twice, giving the thumbs up there. Sure, the gunmen, they didnt get as much death as they apparently wanted. But who wins in this . Why is this new reality okay . Kids determined not to be victims of gun violence. But of course when a gunman enters a classroom everyone in there is victimized. Its just about how badly. They drill on what to do now, as you know, run, hide, retaliate. This is now on the menu of risk awareness, like stranger danger tips, making sure to put a wallet in your front pocket, practicing for the practical now includes how to deal with someone trying to shoot you in class. Better than being useless, like the rest of us, because we are, right . We wont go at this problem like these kids go at loaded weapons. We see the risk and the rage that comes with it and we decide to sit and watch. We do what we warn our kids not to do. We dont tell them to think deep thoughts and pray. We dont tell them to just accept that theres really no one thing that you could do to make that shooter go away. How odd that we celebrate in our kids what we push and encourage, the will to do something even in the face of evil. How odd that we do everything we can to avoid dealing with the same evil despite being the adults in the room. What law would have made these kids not kill on this day, the stock question to stifle the struggle. You know what . Its the wrong question. Flip it. Do any of us really believe that there is nothing we can do to identify, treat, mitigate when it comes to the types of people who tend to do these shootings, that there is no way to control access to weapons better, to deal with the types of behaviors, the types of people who are rarely that much of a surprise selection into this club of killers. Come on. Were not attacking the problem. We sit and we watch. And we reward those who do something to save themselves or others while we refuse to do a damn thing. Just know that, own it in yourself. Of course you should retweet and like and weigh in applauding the kendricks and the rileys. But dont see yourself in them. Dont even ask what you would do. Youve already answered it. I have too. We all have. They are different than us. We, who offer prayers and passivity, they did something about the danger that confronted them. The rest of us count events. We dont counter. Why dont we cry every time . 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