The memo and the readouts about what the president said to these russians was also something that was secreted away. So you can add it to calls between President Trump and the saudi crown prince, Mohammed Bin Salman and between the president and vladimir putin. Why . These are certainly unusual moves that must be explained. Its not clear if those calls were given the same level of super secrecy that we now know came with the call to ukraines president where the president asked for an investigation of the bidens, but it is another crack in a wall of silence. There was an even bigger blow, i would argue, today shedding light on mounting concern in the white house. The u. S. Special envoy to ukraine, kurt volker, resigned today, just one day after the whistleblower report came out. Why . Not clear yet. But he is mentioned in that whistleblower report and well look at how he fits into this ever more tangled web around his lawyer. Right now i want to get to a congresswoman whose words may have helped drive Nancy Pelosis decision to conduct an inquiry. Representative Elissa Slotkin joins me right now. I would ask you to exercise your expertise wearing two hats, as an intelligent officers as a lawmaker with responsibility and constituents. One, the idea of the president saying that to the russians. And two, that type of information being kept somewhat secret. Yeah, listen, i also worked at the National Security council under both president s bush and obama. Theres no way around it, just the breaking of norms and traditions that have gone on from the very beginning, its a little hard to take. You know, i think the president back in 2017 clearly didnt understand what we do and do not do in other peoples elections and was flippant about it. And now, of course, many, many things many months have gone by and we know a lot more about the story. But to be honest with you, i think a lot of this stuff that were talking about now, they are details that are part of the story but it sort of gets caught in the details when we dont focus on the big picture. I agree with you. So lets transition to that. Because his statements to the russians, write it off to ignorance or flippancy, as you say. But the arrogance of creating a twotiered system of how you protect information, its no coincidence to me the Washington Post is finding out what happened in that meeting now, that theres all this exposure about this other system. Have you heard about this other system, the password system that the ukraine call was in . Sure. Is that something you guys do in the intelligence world or they do at the nse . Again, at the nse there are multiple types of systems, some for unclassified information, some for classified and then some for whats called code word, which is exceptionally classified that even people with top clearance doesnt necessarily get to see. And what breaks with executive orders is anyone taking information from the unclassified system that has no reason to be classified and putting it in one of those higher level systems. I learned on my first day as a cia officer there are many, many different strict ways you can classify information, but embarrassing information, politically sensitive information, that is not classified information. So what they did by moving it wasnt right. I still think, you know, that it keeps us in the weeds a little bit from the bigger story, which is what the president did to use his leverage to get dirt on a political opponent. That is the story. That is the big thing here that was different enough for myself and my fellow National Security freshmen to come out for an impeachment inquiry. But, you know, were doing a methodical process now. Im really glad to see that a number of the Committee Members are staying behind. Theyve been asked to stay behind here in washington to follow through with some of the instead of recess. Yeah, instead of recess. Because it shows a different process. I think that one of the things that weve been losing, you know, in the past couple of months on this is were not bringing the American People along with the story. You know, the drip, drip, drip of information on this thing or that thing, its all its important but we got to be able to bring people along so it not a washington insider baseball story. You guys have a challenge because youre telling a new story now. I get that this is new information about ukraine, but for months democrats were saying we already have enough, this is already obstruction and were fighting with ourselves to figure out what to call it but we already have enough. Now you dont even want to talk about that stuff anymore, it only about ukraine. That could send a message to people as well, congresswoman. Are you worried about that . I think putting the country through an impeachment inquiry is such a serious thing, we shouldnt do it lightly. For me its something i never came into congress to do. It not something i go into gleefully or lightly at all. It crossed a threshold in National Security. It is different. Explain that. Look at it in this context because youre new to this particular world, even with all the intel experience. Now youre in a world where nobody expects any integrity on in level sadly. And i hope that changes. So sad. They say they all do what he did. They say biden did it with his son. People say this is what they do and now youre going to throw somebody out of office for doing what the industry norm is in washington . What do you say . I say its not the industry norm. It is not the industry norm for the commander in chief, the most powerful man in the world, to reach out to a junior partner nation and leverage that for dirt on a political opponent. That is not normal. Imagine a democratic president reaching out to china or north korea and doing the same thing. The precedent thats being set here, it just is different. And its also about the future, not the past. Its about the 2020 elections, not 2016. Theres an urgency about it. It is different. Its not something i ever wanted to do. Me and a number of us came out this week. It is different. Theres strategically important and tactically important. Keep it at the strategic level. Are you equally concerned as others in the caucus now that the call is not all . They keep saying it is just a window, its something that is a year in the making, many months in the making, involves people in the white house on multiple levels and what they were telling people in congress about why funding was being held, how they are changing different standards of classification to protect, what access mr. Giuliani was being given when we saw the text he released by mr. Volker who resigned. How many different layers are you considering in making your case to the American People as to what this rises to as abuse . We need to do a thorough investigation. Were starting that next week. We need to look into the detail and be methodical about it. We cant be jumping the done on anything. That doesnt mean the who el kitchen sink goes into some in your party say you will vote next month. Is that possible . Im not foreclosing anything. I do think the process needs to be strategic, clear, and efficient. Whats the standard . How bad does it have to be to justify to say this president should lose what the people gave him . I think if the president has put his own personal or political gain above the criteria of the country, that indicates an Impeachable Offense to me. Nobody wants to go through this but we are pushed to the point where to preserve the constitution and our democratic elections, we need to do this and we need to inquire and figure out what happened. And i think that we have to have certain standard and norms. I dont think that its a crazy thing to look into this as a very different matter. I think only this and only something that challenges my oath to protect and defend the constitution would have brought me to this place. So you believe it is a legitimate question as to whether or not this president jeopardized the National Security of the United States in doing what he did with ukraine . I think that is what is on the table and we need to figure that out, yes. What does it mean to you that volker stepped down, the special envoy to ukraine, he was working as a volunteer, also at the Mccain Institute there wearing two hats. Its somewhat atypical. He kind of stepped into theres a big hole in the ukraine diplomatic core. He steps out right after the whistleblower complaint comes out that he was mentioned in. Doesnt look good. I think its interesting hes stepping down. It allows him to be freed up to have a real conversation. I think he undoubtedly will be called in to give his side of the story, to talk about what he knows in front of the u. S. Congress and i think its better to do that as a private citizen than someone who is still in the employ of this administration. With Corey Lewandowski, as you know, Corey Lewandowski said theyre exercising their executive privilege. He never even worked in the white house. If they can do it with Corey Lewandowski, they can do it with him. The rule is clear, if youre not working there anymore, youre not under the privilege anymore. Lets all hope that not every witness is like mr. Lewandowski. I think mr. Volker is a serious professional and he understands this is a crisis right now and he owes his clear and objective responses to congress. What do you make in your analysis with your experience in the Intelligence Community of mr. Giuliani . Now, one problem is he told me he was doing this on his own. I asked him specifically are you working under color of authority of the president , certainly the state department would fit into that. He said no. Then later here said yes, he is working with the state department. He seemed to be telling the truth. Those texts he put out with volker seemed to suggest he was working. Is there a situation or a circumstance where that is okay for a civilian to be working with the state department doing these types of things with ukraine . Its highly unusual. I dont know if it been done in the past but it is highly unusual, not something ive seen in 15 years in government. I think mixing political and person with professional and National Security issues is always a dangerous game and never worth it. I think that its been cloudy at best starting with your interview with mr. Giuliani. I think hes acknowledged the very basic top line fact here, which is that the president used his leverage on ukraine to get them to provide dirt on a political opponent. He acknowledged it in front of you, in front of everyone else. Thats what changed for me is they were open about it. They didnt seem to be shameful about it, and i just cannot accept that, as an army wife, as the mom of a stepdaughter in the army, the commander in chief cant be doing that. It is interesting how many of you heard Rudy Giuliani lay out the biden case as flagrantly as he did, treat the facts the way he did, use the tone that he did and it started to make you think differently about what you had do in this situation. Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin, thank you so much for giving your perspective. You have an open invitation to come here. The American People have to be brought along every step of the way. Thank you for doing so tonight, especially on a friday. Thank you. To be honest, there are no more fridays. It like every night is a big night now. Tonight were learning a lot about the lengths the white house went to to conceal details of the president s calls and conversations. You just heard someone who worked in the Intelligence Community. She said i wasnt aware people were doing this kind of stuff. The question is why are they doing this . Two reporters who are all over this story with some insight next. 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So why are we learning about things being hidden . Among the many questions being raised tonight as we learn about the white houses efforts to limit access to President Trumps calls with a lot of people, not just the ukraine president , but with putin and the crown prince of saudi arabia and what the president told russian officials in the oval office in 2017 while dismissing their election interference. So lets bring in jim baker and jim sciutto. You know jim sciutto is an anchor here. Jim baker is not a journalist, hes someone with legal acumen in the area were dealing with. Jimmy, you were on top of this early on. The significance to the audience, why does this news matter . Well, listen, lets start with the Oval Office Meeting here. Theres no other way to describe it but as a betrayal of National Security interests. You russia has just interfered in the political process and the president tells him hes fine with it, its okay, which excuses the experience in 2016 but welcomes interference in elections to follow. So you have the behavior and the comment and then you have the coverup where officials knowing that that statement to russian officials is something that should not be known by the public so they take extraordinary measures to keep it not just from the public but from other members of trump as own administration. And as we reported tonight, chris, my colleague pamela brown and i, that it was not limited to that meeting in the oval office. It was not limited to the steps they took after the ukraine president. They took similar steps after the president spoke to the russian president and after he spoke to the saudi crown prince. Its a pattern of troublesome patterns with foreign leaders and to conceal those steps from other members of his administration. Point, counterpoint. Their argument is we have all different types of ways in classifying things. Its up to our discretion, if you dont like it, complain and vote us out. But its certainly not something you can see as an abuse of power. Whats the counter . It is an abuse of power. Let me back up. The president has authority as commander in chief and the head of Foreign Relations for the United States to classify information. Thats true under the constitution. But it has to be for that purpose. It cannot be for the purpose of protecting him and his administration from embarrassment because he says things that are actually contrary to the National Security interests of the United States or unlawful. And i mean unlawful in the sense of unconstitutional, in dereliction of his duties as commander in chief and in dereliction of his oath of office. So he gets to classify information but only to protect the National Security. Thats what he can do. What if the National Security risk is theres too many leaks . Theyre killing me in here. We have to protect these things. Ukraine is a sense it have situation, theyre a fragile place, mbs, have to keep this stuff quiet, away from the leakers. Look, leaking truly classified information is unlawful. That should not be done. But this stuff, again, it is not in my mind properly classified when its done just to protect the political interests of the president or other people or to preserve them