Now, youll see tonight that between what we have learned and now that we have a much better understanding of what we need to know, we are on an entirely new footing in terms of our analysis of this president and potential problems for him. Okay. And for you in particular. You will now understand why the president has done certain things with the covid relief bill, with his tax bill. You will understand now why he structured it the way he did, what it means to him. What you wont understand, but well all be on the same page, is that we need to know who has lent this president unbelievable sums of millions that are personally guaranteed ill tell you why that matters and are due in just a few years. All right. So, this much we know, okay. All of this time that he has been spending trying to deal with this and what it means, he wanted to keep this from you because he is not what he has told you, and because he doesnt have what he says, because he has money coming in from places that he didnt want you to know, and because he has money going out that is not only undercutting the idea of his wealth, but raises significant questions about who would lend him this money. Why would he be personally guaranteed . Very unusual. In High Net Worth situations like his own with corporate entities, why would he personally guarantee . Why would he have to . Who is it to . National security issues. Ideas of his policies. What his personal conflicts are. We have john bolton tonight, former ambassador, head of National Security. He didnt know about these loans. Can you imagine that . Youll hear that conversation for yourself. Now, i want to tell you that lets set the stage with some of this out. Everything im about to play for you, we now know was b. S. Im really rich. I built a great company. One of the best companies. I built a great company. No, he built a great brand, not a company in terms of something that makes something, that sells things and takes things in and is managed and grows and has staff, and has underlying equity asset value. What does that mean . Something you can borrow against, because if he were such a great businessman, donald trump would not have to be personally on the hook for 421 million, personally, okay. When is it due . It starts coming due in the next four years. Personally liable. His great company, what does that mean . Whoever was lending him the money didnt think he had a great enough company to use it as collateral. Think about that. Now, youve grown accustomed to politicians selling you a fairytale, and i get it. I get why you dont want politicians telling you donald trump is a lying nogood nick. But this is about the facts and donald trump has been lying to you in ways that youll see, matter more than we would have expected. Hes been doing it for almost a decade. I paid a lot of tax. And, you know, look, i dont mind. Im proud to pay. If i owe it, i pay it. Not true. In fact, one of the few honest things that he has said was when he didnt know he was being recorded. Listen to this. When youre a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Donald trump celebrity pays really well. He makes a ton of money. Now, he may think that entitles him to an entirely different set of rules because thats how hes been playing. This is not i know youve heard a lot today and yesterday and youll hear tomorrow and other places tonight. I cant believe he doesnt pay any taxes. We all know these rich people game the system with their fancy accountants. You pay the accountant so he or she signs the return so you can get away with whatever theyre putting there. We know that. We know nobody wants to pay more taxes than they absolutely have to. Why . Because you need your money and you dont trust where its going and how theyre going to use it. This isnt that. This isnt just another rich guy working the system. He is in control of that same system. He was hired to blow up that system, to drain the swamp, to give you more leverage. What has he done . He has ensured the system continues and has even bigger loopholes in it, not for people like you, people like him. Because of our tax cuts, you can keep more of your hardearned money. Its not true. He has helped mostly people like him. If you work for a living, youve likely seen your tax bill go up. These are the numbers. And i know they can slice it a million different walys. It was specific. It was called a middle class tax cut. But it wasnt. 17 cents on every dollar, it varies on where you live. His policies make it harder for you to buy a house, but better for people like him to build them. The most powerful man on the planet urgently needs to make money. His push to lift lifesaving restrictions in the spring look a whole lot different when you realize his revenue is tied to things like golf courses, hotels, real estate, everything thats suffering in the pandemic. So what we dont know may be the biggest threat, absolutely one to our National Security. Who lent him the money . Because its personally guaranteed. He is on the hook. There is zero chance that he cannot care about it and it is a tremendous sum of money. 421 million, all right. Thats real money. You dont pay a percentage. Thats money theyre looking for. Now, remember, before the political need for silence, his son told a reporter something in 2014. Quote, we have all the funding we need out of russia. This level of outstanding debt would be reason enough to deny security clearances to any government worker, okay. You would not get one. If you had personal loan guarantees on the hook, let alone coming from abroad. Now, what irony. How sickening is it that it doesnt apply to the person we should care about this most, the commander in chief. That much power placed in the hands of one man is why another republican president said this. People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook. Well, im not a crook. Infamous words, right . Nothing to do with watergate. Rather than that nixon was dramatically under paying his income taxes. So heres where we are. Im telling you, the people around this president did not know what came out in his taxes. Ive been scrubbing it. A lot of other pros have been scrubbing it. They didnt know. The people keeping us safe have no idea who he owes and how much. Now lets get three men in here who are intimately familiar with why trump does his taxes this way, right, a former attorney of his, mitchell zackery, okay. Someone who i have been working on this for 15 years for this moment to come out. Tim obrien, with the New York Times, bloomberg, you remember him from the bloomberg campaign. Hes been on msnbc and hes here with me tonight. He literally was a mentor of mine in understanding the structures we were trying to identify. And we bring in the professor david k. Johnston to help understand what this means and what it should mean. Thank you each and all. Tim, i start with you. For a long time now, you had some access, david, also, but you always wanted more to come out so people could understand what you understand without you violating any of the rules of litigation that reveal the tax records to you during your litigation against then citizen donald trump with the New York Times. What jumps out for you in this chunk of stuff that the New York Times processed . I think two broad issues, chris. The first one is that donald trump embodies a National Security threat. Hes heavily indebted. He owns business in the most vulnerable sectors of the economy right now that are getting ravaged by the coronavirus pandemic. Real estate, both commercial and residential, travel and leisure. And he has debts coming due. And donald trump, when hes corner with debts usually acts like a caged animal. He only has two approaches to this. He either sells his assets to get a handle on the debt, and i think he has significantly more debt than the New York Times has disclosed. I think hes got north of a billion. He either sells assets or he goes for a loan why do you think he has that much, tim . I know, its publicly documented. Its public records on mortgages hes got, chris. Its not speculation. I think theres a certain portion of that that comes due sooner that is probably putting more pressure on him. Its certainly north of a billion dollars. I think thats indisputable. Hold on, lets bring in mitch a second. Thanks, tim. Well keep rolling it around. Dont worry. We have a lot to talk about and we have a lot of time. Mitch, you did his taxes, you started out back in the 80s. So nobody is going to tell you anything about his practices and his predilections. But 421 million personally guaranteed after all the money hes had come in and the different businesses hes been able to put together, are you surprised by that number . Of course, not. When i worked on it, he was going through terrible times. Divorce with ivana, the taj mahal debacle. He actually took down some major banks i dont know if anybody remembers Bankers Trust, but he had 100 million unsecured line of credit with them. He paid three quarters of a point as a fee, and the guys at Bankers Trust were thrilled, except he paid one interest and defaulted. Lo and behold, Deutsche Bank had to take over Bankers Trust. So it doesnt surprise me one bit. This is how he lived in the past. Im sure its the same way now. Hell say, i owe 400 million. Thats how you do business, you borrow money, and then you pay it back. Im worth billions and billions in assets. I can pay this. They dont know what theyre talking about. Well, listen, first of all i want to comment on what was said before. Personal tax returns do not reveal the amount of personal debt, okay. So im not sure how the New York Times came up with that number, but i agree that its probably much higher. Explain that to me. Assume i know nothing about taxes. Well, on an individual tax return, all it talks about is income and expenses, not assets and liabilities. On a corporate return you would have that. If this debt is personal, then it wont be reflected in any way on his tax return. So im not sure how the New York Times came up with that number. Where would it be . Go ahead, tim, jump in. Its in his personal financial disclosure. These are government filings, at least 300 million disclosed in there. Weve known that for 2 1 2 years. All right. Lets bring the professor in here on this. Ive got to tell you, you guys are going to hear from john bolton later in the show. I had to tape him before the show because of time constraints, and i really wanted him. David, can you believe that no one in our National Security apparatus allegedly knew that he had this kind of money that he owed personally to lenders that may include foreign lenders . Well, im not sure why they necessarily would ask, but i do want to emphasize that tim is exactly right here, that we have other records on donalds debt, and its much more likely in the neighborhood of a billion dollars. If donald was solid, he wouldnt be signing personal notes to secure that debt. He would be pledging the assets. And we shouldnt make the assumption that Donald Trumps [ inaudible ] reporting are actual losses. Donald has a history of fabricating tax deductions. If some of the losses he took are fabricated, it raises another National Security question. Where did the money go . And now just to be clear, mitchell zackery has said before that this is something that can happen and he knows new york is looking at it. He was never a part of it, he says, but if thats what he was doing, he could be in real trouble. So, all right. We have what this means. So, the biggest question that were left after with this is not a fishing expedition. How, tim, does the president get around disclosing who he owes the money to . Well, again, chris, i think some of this has been disclosed. A large portion of it is to Deutsche Bank. We know from Court Filings that lots of money came into his organization from Eastern Europe in the mid 2000s when he went on a shopping spree. The Trump Soho Hotel was built with a lot of money from Eastern Europe. I do think theres stuff we dont that isnt in those tax returns about precise countries of origin. We know that some money came comes from turkey. We know some comes from the philippines. I think russia is the big mystery in all of this. Whatever the country is, the unifying tether in all of these is that you have a president in the oval office who either is indebted to foreign powers or is going to go with his handout to foreign powers and its going to taint every Public Policy decision he makes, particularly anything involving National Security or foreign policy. Mitch, lets go to break on this idea. So, what are we worried about . Were worried about the president doing something desperate to accommodate his own financial situation and forget about his fiduciary responsibility to the rest of the american people. What do you know about the president in a situation like that that the people should know . Well, i dont want to get too political because i dont want to make enemies. However, right now it appears that the president s only concern is getting reelected. And now we can see why. More importantly, chris, we can see why he did not want these returns revealed, why he fought it so hard, all the way up to the supreme court, and going back up the courts again, because this shows he is not who he pretends to be and never was. And its not just about puffery, you know. Thats fine. He wants to say hes really rich, hes not quite as rich. Its what does it mean in terms of how vulnerable he is and how much he needs cash flow and how much he needs to do that to secure. Lets talk about that, all right. Were going to talk about what that means in terms of understanding what has to happen here. Hey, mitchell zackery, timothy obrien, david k. Johnson, i couldnt ask for better guys than you on this. So, were going to keep talking about what matters because there are a lot of questions now that are going to have to be asked. Lets get after that. Im a conservative, want conservative judges on the court. This may make you feel better, but i really dont care. If an opening comes in the last year of president trumps term and the primary process has started well wait to the next election. I want you to use my words against me. Youre on the record. Yeah, hold the tape. Lindsey must go and the Lincoln Project are responsible for the content of this ad. Whether its bribes. Or an overdue makeover. Get all your pet essentials right when you need them, with Curbside Pickup at petsmart. And enjoy 15 off when you buy online and pickup in store. Do you know how it feels to live with schizophrenia . I am a good parent. Jared . Im hearing the most awful things, people shouting at me. Its ok. When you live with schizophrenia like us, it can feel like youre living in a different world. You should definitely talk to your doctor and ask about fanapt. Ok. Fanapt is approved for the treatment of schizophrenia in adults. In clinical trials, fanapt significantly improved symptoms of schizophrenia compared to placebo. Cynthia, are you ok . I feel like everyones out to get me. Fanapt may change your heart rhythm which could elevate risk of sudden death. Your doctor will consider this when deciding among treatments and may prescribe another medication first or may instruct you to take a smaller dosage of fanapt. Remember youre not alone, there is help. Call 8557 fanapt i believe in trump because hes made so much money. Well, if you define your wealth by assets minus liabilities, you dont know much about donald trump in terms of how rich he is. And if you say, well, i trust him because i know hes looking out for me. He gets how that game is played. And hes going to help me, hes going to drain the swamp. Why doesnt he pay taxes and make sure guys like him benefit more than the rest of us on his watch . Because thats what hes doing. Hes helping people like him not pay taxes and not people like you. Now, we go from politics to real problems. 400 million personally guaranteed with his cash flow sucking wind because of the pandemic, so much so that hes showing losses and not even paying taxes because hes losing so much money. The question every one of you should be asking is, whom does he owe uh thall this money . Some of it is in public and not all of it. Some of it is in corporate institutions. It doesnt mean there arent people behind those businesses that he owes. Its the question that makes him a target for foreign adversaries around the world. What do they know about what our president needs to make happen that we dont . We discuss this and the implications with the author of the room where it happened a white house memoir, trumps former National Security advisor ambassador john bolton. Mr. Ambassador, thank you for joining us on such an important night. Glad to be with you. Thanks for having me. So, sir, what is your general reaction to this news of the significant debt that our president owes that is personally guaranteed . Were you aware of this before now . No, i was not. I mean, ive seen reporting on it and it certainly leads to a lot more questions than weve got answers at this point. Obviously the New York Times has a lot of information, but its also incomplete. I think the prosecutors around the country are trying to get some of that information. They may have it more complete. But the nature of the complexity of the trump organization, finances, trumps personal finances, lead to a lot of questions about how many of the transactions we know about are legitimate, and how many are sham to avoid taxation or other obje obligations. For those at home, the ambassador has another tighting, hes a lawyer. Not just National Security expertise. He worked with the justice department. He understands the law generally enough to understand this. Who lent him the money . Because personal guarantees are different. Its than theyre going to come after his business. Its that this is something that puts a tremendous amount of pressure on him, obviously personally. From that perspective, what do you want to know about those loans . Forget about the tax burden. Sure, you need to know the sources of the loans and you need to know the circumstances under which they were negotiated. You