The fact is that we dont need a direction from the president to the intelligence chiefs to be on guard against russian interference with our elections, number one. Number two, as far as what the president says on any given day, frankly he says a lot of things. He is, i think, campaigning against impeachment rather than saying anything that is designed to affect the outcome of the case. So i kind of brush that off. But to go back to your first point, that we dont need the president for the intelligence community. Thats a little counterintuitive. We expect the leadership from the president to be of paramount importance when were dealing with threats like this, which to the democracy is basically existential. So for him to not be on the same page seems to be highly counterproductive. Its counterproductive, but it is not at all necessarily critical. These intelligence agencies, particularly in an administration where statements
get made all the time, i think are pretty much doing their jobs without regard to what the president may be saying on a day to day basis. Although coats did say in the past, the director of national intelligence. You of course know that. That he didnt have a big plan ready to go to fight from a Cybersecurity Perspective because he needed the president to come to him and say, you need to do this. So its not as simple as just independent authority. Its it may not be as simple as independent authority, but the fact is there is planning going on inside the department of homeland security, inside the National Security agency, inside the fbi, inside all of these agencies. They dont, i think, need necessarily a mother may i from the president. Thats politics. Lets move to law because we know why the president doesnt like talking about russian interference because he hates the probe. He sees the probe as being about him. He believes that it delegitimizes him. He doesnt want anybody to put stock in it, hence all of his invective toward it and those of us who cover it. If you were his attorney, he
says, i want a sitdown with this guy. Im going to tell mueller the truth. You say . Dont do it. Why not. Im telling the truth. I have nothing to hide. Thats fine. Mueller doesnt need the president s testimony. Hes got everything he needs if hes conducting an investigation into what hes supposed to be there to investigate. Theres no necessity for it. Why not . Because the president has been quoted on every subject that mueller is investigating or supposed to be investigating. He was put there for one reason and for one reason only, and that is that there was supposedly a conflict in the Justice Department conducting an investigation into a relationship between the Trump Campaign and the russians. Thats what it says in the initial order, and thats the only justification for having a Special Counsel. Dont you think its a real one . The justification . Yeah. I dont know whether its a real one or not. The supposed Conflict Of Interest that rosenstein was worried about. Yeah, there would be a
conflict in an investigation of the president s campaign. But so he did the right thing picking the Special Counsel . Query whether there was enough evidence to suggest that kind of that there was a criminal interaction between the russians and the president. But assuming that there was, then he had to have picked a Special Counsel. Because you had written earlier, early on in the case, that they shouldnt have picked a Special Counsel. Do you feel differently now . No, i dont. I still take a look at whats emerged from the Special Counsels investigation. There is no case that has emerged from that investigation that relates to the reason he was put there. Theres the manafort case, which is on trial now in theres the flynn case. Theres the flynn case, which was lying to kislyak. An fbi agent. About his discussions with kislyak. Relating to sanctions. Right. That has nothing to do with russian meddling in the election. How do we know . Im just asking the question. I mean youve been dealing with these things on so many different i dont understand the relationship between the question of whether sanctions were going to be lifted or not but do you think i mean i dont know. Maybe you know. I dont know the full context of what he talked with kislyak and not. I dont know what made sally yates so concerned that she came to the white house to talk to mcgahn about it. I dont know the full context. Do you . No, i dont. But even assuming that it was proper to appoint a Special Counsel, we havent seen anything yet from the Special Counsel relating to the only reason why appointment of the Special Counsel is justified, i. E. , a conflict with the Justice Department. All the cases that have been brought are cases that could have been brought by a u. S. Attorneys office and indeed many of them have been farmed out to the u. S. Attorneys offices. Right. Hindsight 20 20 in terms of the actual cases. But when you saw what the president was doing with sessions, with comey, and continues to do all the time, imagine if Jeff Sessions had kept it inhouse, or i guess if rosenstein look, Jeff Sessions he recused himself. Had to have recused himself
because theres a regulation in place that says if you work on a campaign and theres a criminal investigation relating to that campaign, you cant be involved. The president puts it on sessions, says it was a bum move and he should have told him about it. It was a total hoodwink. Wrong, wrong, wrong. As far as it being a hoodwink, sessions would have to have had the gift of prophecy along with the president in order to believe at the time he was appointed that there was going to be to an investigation and that he was going to be conflicted. Sessions is a great guy. Hes not a prophet. Thats why i was confused by your initial writings on this one because of my respect for your mind and that rosenstein the only thing he could do is get a prophylactic in play, get somebody who had one layer away from the president , which technically a Special Counsel does, because otherwise he could have been fired like that if he were running it. The question is Whether Mueller was whether the mandate that was given to him was an appropriate mandate. The initial mandate was to investigate what jim comey
testified to before the House Committee. What jim comey testified to before the House Committee was not a criminal investigation. It was a National Security investigation. You dont need a Special Prosecutor to conduct a National Security investigation. He corrected that, i think, later on although we dont know what the complete order looks like because its all been redacted. A lot of people make the argument that we havent seen anything yet. So, therefore, this wasnt worth it. But just in a Straight Line of duration, this has been we have a graphic of it, which will be completely familiar to you. But for the audiences sake, this has not been going on a long time at all as special probes go, let alone what weve seen recently on a political side with benghazi. Why make that argument . Not you necessarily but i keep hearing it, so i want your take on it of, its been going on so long. We would have known by now. Do you buy that . Depends what the evidence is that they have. Take a look at who they have as defendants. Right. Manafort has a codefendant. Right. Named gates, who is cooperating with the government. Right. The theory was that theyre bringing a case against manafort to put pressure on him to testify against the president. Right. They dont need that. They have gates, who knows everything that manafort knows because he was in there to the full extent that manafort was, and hes already cooperating with the government. My take on that was always different. I hear what youre saying, and i know you dont own it as a theory but only the logic. My theory about why he kept the case was because of the players that it involves, not that he was just trying to pinch him. And i know better minds than mine argued, well, look what they did with him when they were dealing with his bail restrictions. If they have proof that he was playing with witnesses, i understand why they got punitive with him and changed his conditions. You would have done the same thing if you were sitting on the bench. There are ways to do that without putting him in. Right. But if you told him before its done with child pornographers. Right. But if youve warned him before
and its happened again, now you got a different picture, right . Yeah. But you can still do it without putting him in. Understood. This is the 21st century. I hear you. But at the end of the day, do you believe that the bar for the necessity for this probe must be charges against somebody from the Trump Campaign and maybe some connection to the president himself . In retrospect, i dont judge the bar as being charges against certainly against the president himself. Cant have that. You believe in that. You dont indict a sitting president . You cant. Thats the doj guidance. And i believe its correct for a variety of reasons, including the fact that the Executive Power thats what the constitution says. The Executive Power is lodged in the president. Everybody who exercises Executive Power exercises it based on its derivation from the president. In essence it would be the president prosecuting himself, number one. Number two, hes got the power to dismiss the case. So the case is a futility at the start. So thats why you cant indict a sitting president. It doesnt have anything to do with being above the law. If hes impeached, he can certainly be indicted. Its about process. Thats what kavanaugh argues as well. Your mind makes things better for us. Thank you very much. Its just the truth. Former Attorney General, appreciate you being here. We saw Something Different from the government on russian interference and something painfully the same. Were going to lay it out for you on the magic wall next. Chris Cuomo asks the tough questions to newsmakers in Washington and around the world. Its not just risk to our prosperity, privacy, and infrastructure we have to worry about, and thats why were here today. Our democracy itself is in the crosshairs. Our democracy itself is in the crosshairs. Do you know how long many of us have been waiting to hear this acknowledgement of recognized fact . Russia trying to weaken and divide the United States. Very tough stuff and very real. But then came the president. The situation was perfectly teed up for him. He could have said, stop saying i dont care about russian interference. Look at what my people just said. But instead he said this. In helsinki, i had a great meeting with putin. We discussed everything. I had a great meeting. I had a great meeting. [ cheers and applause ] we got along really well. By the way, thats a good thing, not a bad thing. Thats a really good thing. Now were being hindered by the russian hoax. Its a hoax. Chris Cuomo asks the tough questions to newsmakers in Washington and around the world. So lets take a quick break. When we come back, we have governor john kasich. Hes following what russian attacks on the democracy meant. He has ideas for what needs to happen. He has ideas for what he has to see his party and the country writ large do on major issues. So were going to talk to him next. Im Captain Obvious and hotels. Com rewards me basically everywhere. So why am i hosting a dental convention after party in my vegas suite . Because hotels. Com lets me do me. Who wants to floss me . Hotels. Com. You do you and get rewarded. Its these new freshfx car Air Fresheners from armor all. Each scent can create a different mood in my car. Like tranquil skies. Armor all, its easy to smell good. Gigspeed network and add voice and tv for 34. 90 more per month. Call or go online today. A group of intel chiefs walked out today to say russia is still trying to hack our elections, and we have to stop it. Potus doesnt seem to be on the same page. Theres a disconnect between him and then, his party and him, his daughter and him. Where is Common Ground on election safety, the continuing crisis on the border . One man whos thinking about this problem is the governor and former republican president ial candidate john kasich of ohio. Good to have you back on the show, sir. Good to be with you again, chris. So it was all youre doing very well. Youve got a good show going. Thank you. I know you were waiting out to see how it would go before you would accept the invite, so i take your presence as approval. All right. Lets get to what matters. So it was all teed up for trump today, for the president. Big issue, Russian Election attacks and continuing interference. His chiefs all said we have to stop it. He could have come out and said, to kasich, to cuomo, and everybody else, stop saying, i dont care. I just showed everybody here were going to have the biggest plan ever. Were going to make it safer than ever. But he didnt. He didnt even mentioned it. He doubled down on the dumb arguments that the media is the problem, not russia, that its all a hoax. Where do we find Common Ground and progress . Well, you know, i didnt agree with the earlier the former Attorney General saying, well, theyre just going to go and do their thing, and they dont really need approval from the president. Of course they do. I mean hes the leader. He needs to publicly talk about this. I guess he has charged his people to go up and draft plans. We do know that theres some money being sent across this country for local election
officials to be able to and secretaries of state to make sure the election is going to be sacrosanct. We do know that the russians are engaging in trying to divide us. You know, they put these things up online, picking on our divisions. They try to accentuate them to drive us farther apart. Theres also the real possibility and concern about Voter Registration. Thats where they can really get at things. So if all of a sudden they disrupt and remove names from the Voter Registration lists, which most of them or many of them are online. They can create tremendous confusion. And, look, chris, theres a lot of things that are at stake. The press is a Critical Institution in our country. The Justice Department is a Critical Institution in our country. The election we cant have a situation where people are wondering if the elections were fair. Now, im glad to see that whole cadre of people up talking about the fact theyre going to take more action. But we have a bigger issue than
what weve even discussed so far, and that is the possibility of cyberattacks on our country from the big four, from russia, from china, from north korea, and you noticed that iran was just threatening us on cyberattacks. We do not have a Central Place to coordinate all the different pieces of our government and to make sure that we have a policy that even regards our private Sector Companies that can be hacked, that can be cyberattacked. I dont know what theyre waiting for on this because you have too much division. And when you have too much division, you dont have the kind of common goal, the offense and the defense. And frankly, offense and defense are so related in cyber. So weve got the russian interference in terms of using places like facebook. Weve got their ability to begin to see if they can hack and disrupt our Voter Registration. And then we dont have a cyber policy. And it just didnt start here. It didnt go on in the last administration. This is a desperate need. They could target our infrastructure, and you saw how iran was threatening us by using this asymmetrical threat in warfare. So weve got to deal with so many issues here, and we need the president. And hes got a block on this one because he thinks its bad for him on some level. So even when all of his chiefs are out there, he takes it in a different direction. But this isnt the only issue where were dealing with this contagion. We see it in the crisis on the border also. Everybody knows its wrong. Everybody knows the system doesnt work. Everybody knows that we need rules and recommendations and policies, but its not happening. Why and whats the remedy . Politics. People are worried about primaries, about offending, quote, the base. And if you spend your time, you know, in these elected jobs trying to satisfy your base, chris, let me tell you. You know, you know a lot about politics. You had a father, you got a brother. I mean these are people that have given their lives to politics. If you put your finger up in the wind, today the public loves you, and tomorrow they dislike you intensely, and then the next day they like you. If youre a leader, you have to be willing to have good people around you and to walk a lonely road. You cant just you just cant ignore things. So the congress i cant understand what they are doing. Of course we want to make sure that our border is secure, but i think we need a bigger policy, chris. I think that we need to have a policy that looks at the region, to stop the drugs from coming in, to get rid of the drug cartels, the gangs. You know, thats what we tried to do in colombia. We should do it in the whole region, and were not taking care of business in our neighborhood. And thats why were experiencing so many problems at the border. But, look, chris, ive g