Planning illegal acts. Why . Because according to former acting director an draw mccabe, he and Rod Rosenstein seriously discussed wearing a wire to record the president and invoking the 25th amendment to remove him from office. Discussion of the 25th amendment was simply rod raised the issue and discussed it with me in the context of thinking about how many other cabinet officials might support such an effort. The Deputy Attorney general offered to wear a wire into the white house. He said, i never get searched. Now, he was not joking. He was absolutely serious, and in fact he brought it up in the next meeting we had. To that, the president called mccabe disgraced and deranged. Then accusing those two top officials of quote, planning a very illegal act and got caught. This was the illegal and treasonous insurance policy in full action, says the president on twitter this morning. To be clear, mccabe and rosenstein might disagree on what and how was discussed but they definitely agree they did not act on anything. Even so, the president today seems to be taking his cues from a conservative ally in fox news, quoting him with this this was an illegal coup attempt on the president of the United States. To which the president writes, true. Laura, rosen too inis already on his way out the door in a sense of the word at the Justice Department. Hes long been planning to leave after the new a. G. Arrived. What does all this mean for rosenstein answer exit . The Deputy Attorney general has been here before, somehow weathering the mccabe storm when it seemed like his days were frankly numbered. As we reported rosenstein wants to help the transition for his successor. But the president s displeasure was clearly on display today. We know bill barr picked will rosen the transportation secretary to serve as his deputy, his number two at doj. Also, no word tonight from rosenstein on mccabes interview. But the Justice Departments statements on his behalf consistently tried to focus on what rosenstein did or didnt do as opposed to what might have been discussed. One source telling me when rosenstein wearing the wire, the idea of that came up it was just due to sarcasm, but mccabe adamant on 60 minutes it was no laughing matter at all. Senator graham, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee suggesting hell subpoena mccabe and rosenstein if necessary. With me now, john dean. Former assistant for the department of the Homeland Security under president obama juliette cayenne and james trusty, a long time friend of the aforementioned Rod Rosenstein. John, President Trump is accusing both mccabe and rosenstein essentially of treason. Im paraphrasing but i dont think im going too far. This is from the president of the United States. I know we see a lot of tweets. I know the president says a lot of things. I know we are in a different time, but the president of the United States, accusing these two top officials of treasonous acts. What do you do with that . Its absolutely absurd. It shows the man, one, has no knowledge of what actually treason. Is secondly he thinks like a monarch. Somehow these people have made a bad act against him is equivalent with a bad act against the country. And they dont equate that way. Treason is not defined as an attack on a president. This is no coup these people were planning. This is a president who really doesnt have a good grip on reality at times. Juliette, i mean, is talk of invoking the 25th amendment or wearing a wire to record a conversation with the president a serious thing . Absolutely ill answer it for you. While they dont agree on how these conversations took place, both agree none of it went anywhere. Is there anything illegal about this . No. And theyll disagree about the tone. Certainly nothing illegal about the 25th amendment. The constitution envisioned its own out clause for the president. I just want to put everyone back to where these two men were. So nonpolitical men. Mccabe and rosenstein, and the magnets around them. Be the time theyre having this conversation, the president has rejected or ignored evidence that his First National security adviser adviser mike flynn may be a russian asset. He rejects calls to fire him. Hes gotten rid of salaly yates who told him about flynn. Hes mocking Jeff Sessions his attorney general for recusing himself from the investigation. Hes fired comey. Hes undermined his intelligence communitys assessment of the russian influence in the campaign and right, all along hes undermining the investigation. So to me, the fact that theyre having this conversation is actually not that shocking. We are just forgetting what it was like in those months, and to have a president like that, you know, with the scope and the depth of the can haves and lies that hes having with the russians, you know, the 25th amendment seems like the least of the conversations they should have been having. And that is really saying something. James youve known rosenstein for years. You saw his interview with mccabe. Let me play you what mccabe says about rosenstein and wearing a wire. Listen to this. If. He said, i never get searched when i go into the white house. I could easily wear a recording device. They wouldnt know it was there. He was not joking. He was absolutely serious. In fact he brought it up in the next meeting we had. I never actually considered taking him up on the offer. He says rosenstein brought it up not once but twice. Rosenstein through the Justice Department deny it by saying the Deputy Attorney general never authorized any recording that mr. Mccabe references. Can they both be right . I think its pretty unlikely. I dont want try to psychoanalyze mccabe, but i dont think we should gloss over the differences between what rod or the doj said and what mccabe said. That enmoose you to assess credibility. This is a situation where Rod Rosenstein says it didnt happen. At best maybe there was sarcasm. I dont think mccabe is so sluggish to the idea of sarcasm that he couldnt guess it, but hes got serious credibility problems. Hes hawking a kiss and tell book as a disgraced former official and hes flailing around partly at trump and others to bring them down. The way the doj writes about it its that he didnt authorize any actions. Do you dismiss they had real conversations . Theres earlier statements that came out that said at best there was something that was said sarcastically. Part of this is knowing Rod Rosenstein. He is not so foolish as to think the 25th amendment was in play. Hes also not so crazy to think hes going wear a wire into the white house. These just do not ring true as anybody to knows rod as a constitutional scholar, a serious career prosecutor for many years. It rings like somebody whos selling a book, worried about criminal charges and has a history. John, let me play you Something Else mccabe said in this interview, that when considering whether or not to appoint the special counsel, rosenstein wanted to get advice from jim comey about it. Listen. He raised the issue with me twice, and ultimately i told him that i wasnt comfortable connecting him with jim comey, that i didnt think jim should weigh in on these things. Why not . Because he was no longer a member of the government and it would have been improper having him weigh in. The Justice Department in a statement on this one said rosenstein never spoke to comey about appointing a special counsel. That doesnt seem to be really the question from what you hear from mccabe. Why from your perspective, john, why would rosenstein want comeys advice after all that had gone down . Well, you know, i dont know. We dont know what was actually said. Its all hearsay we are getting trying to piece this back together. I can only imagine that heres a man whos never been at the level of Deputy Attorney general, whos never appointed a special counsel before, and if he did in fact want to talk to comey, hes got a more seasoned partner to sort of the bounce it around with. Mccabe was right, though, and obviously rosenstein didnt do it and that was wise not too because it would have made it look more cluollusive the undertaking. We dont know to this day how muellers name was selected. Ive never seen any press on where that came from. Obviously they did the right thing in the process here. So these are possible what ifs we are looking at. Juliette looking forward, this is getting a lot of attention in the public and on capitol hill. Lindsey graham is making it clear he is not done with this when it comes to the 25th amendment and the whole concept of wearing a wire. Let me play you what he said yesterday. The whole point of congress existing is to provide oversight to the executive branch so i promise your viewers the following that we will have a hearing about whos telling the truth, what actually happened. Will you subpoena mccabe and rosenstein to appear . How can i not if thats what it takes. Graham thinks mccabe and rosenstein could be in real trouble here. Juliette, do you think they could be . I dont know. Graham and the president spend a lot of time attacking critics. Never suggesting the investigation could exonerate the president. If i were rosenstein or mccabe i would say bring it on. Lindsey graham is not going do it because he has no idea what motivated either man to act that way. Its going to be something not complimentary to the president of the United States. I think this is all graham doing his bidding for donald trump. We have a tendency to think of people as good or bad. You know, one side or the other. I think this is a perfect example as james was saying, in which motivations are really odd in these cases. Mccabe, rosenstein, comey, all of them. I think part of what muellers clearly doing is trying to get out of the psychology of these men and maybe the Competition Among them to try to get to the facts. Mccabe has some background. Rosenstein was responsible or at least wrote the memo to fire comey. Nobodys perfect. Theyre under tremendous pressure. Thats why you have a second arbiter on this stuff. I know you agree it was the president that made the final decision on the firing of jim comey. Of the officials fbi director jim comey had his say after being fired writing a book and doing a tour. Andrew mccabe had his sbeih hes writing a book. Rod rosenstein is leaving soon. Do you think he wants to have his say after he leaves after all this . If he does i want to be his agent, but i dont think so. Hes the kind of guy thats were long run historical minded so i dont think hes a big fan of kiss and tell contemporaneous account of events. I could be wrong, but my guess is hell move on to the next job with the same kind of what i would call quiet dignity he has now and hes not going run around and try to be his own advocate or sell books. This is a pretty extraordinary situation on a lot of levels but twha that top fbi officials are doing kiss and tell books is a rare moment in history. I think a lot of people would agree with me. Up next, breaking news roger stone just submitting an apology to his judge after posting an image of her with crosshairs next to her head. Will the apology be enough to keep him out of more legal trouble. 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Do the kind thing. Itin 30,000 precision parts. Or it isnt. Its inspected by mercedesbenz factorytrained technicians. Or it isnt. Its backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isnt. For those who never settle, its either mercedesbenz certified preowned, or it isnt. The mercedesbenz certified preowned sales event. Now through february 28th. Only at your authorized mercedesbenz dealer. Run with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. Beacuse changing your attachments, should be as easy as. What about this . Changing your plans. Yeah. Run with us. Search john deere 1 series for more. Breaking news in right now. Roger stone apologizing to the judge in his case tonight after President Trumps long time adviser whos under federal indictment posted on instagram not once buck twice today attacks against judge amy bermen jacks jackson calling it a show trial next to the judge. It appears to be the distinct ing of crosshairs behind her. With that stone is now doing damage control. Sarah it seems you often cant guess what the next turn is going to be. Stone realizes the implications because hes taken it back a couple of times now. What is he doing now . Reporter so much to explain. There were two separate photos of the judge with explanations saying this is being misinterpreted. Then another explanation saying thats not a crosshairs thats the logo of the website where we got this photo, and now it seems stone or perhaps someone on his legal team realized this could be a very big legal problem and get him in more trouble. He formally apologized to the court, to the judgment quote, the photo was improper and shouldnt have been posted. I had no intention of disrespecting the court and humly apologize to the court. Hes apologizing to the court and hoping this judge, who she is tough, is in the going look at the rules of his bail and say, he can not handle himself out of jail. Maybe he should await trial in a cell. She did that with Paul Manafort but that was for witness tamperingle well see. Like donald trump, roger stone not one to apologize, so you see he really realizes it tonight. Thank you so much. Now an attorney for the Southern District of new york and david gergen, advise tore four president s. Harry, when the judge finds out about this, apology included, twhas possible fallout . I think the way stone handled it by taking down the offending image and then submitting this apology will minimize the likely fallout. Its possible hell get a warning. Its possible that hell have to come to court and explain how this happened and promise not to do it again. I would be surprised just as a matter of my own experience, if he were actually put in. As we just mentioned a moment ago, when manafort was detained he was detained because of witness tampering which is more serious than this very, very bad instagram post. Poor choice is i think not even close to what we should say about it. David, the president of the United States attacks judges on the Judicial Branch with relative regularity if they dont decide in his favor. We have seen this over and over again. I guess, on any level should anyone be surprised roger stone, his ally, confidant, adviser wanted to walk down. You might think he would consider it, but you never think he would do it. Because its an act of such utter stupidity. Here he is soon to come before this female judge, who is an obama appointee who Paul Manafort, his friend went before this judge. She threw the book at him. Paul manafort could well die in jail. Hes a crumpled man. We now heard harrowing tails of whats happening to him in prison, how his life has changed. How lonely, how depressed he is. He doesnt see his family. Roger stone must also worry if he doesnt go there, hes seen as something of a dandy. Will he be safe . There must be a lot of things going through his mind. Oh, my god, what have i got myself into . In light of that, how perfectly odd to even post this thing, especially with that crosshairs, which sent a signal to everybody. Everybody on the dark net. Got conspiracy theories rolling during the day. How odd he did this. The bigger question is, yz the president of the United States over the year surrounded himself with odd people, many of whom are now heading for the slammer . Harry, you look at the Paul Manafort case, the gag order that was put in place. You look at the roger stone case, i have been calling it a partial gag order, the circumstances of it. Could it change the turn of that . I guess it could. The judge might consider placing further restrictions on him, maybe some modified home detention which is something that manafort was sentenced to for a time. It is possible the conditions will be increased. She framed the gag order the same way in the gates and manafort c