Transcripts For CNNW Erin Burnett OutFront 20191024 : vimars

CNNW Erin Burnett OutFront October 24, 2019

Now discussing what articles of impeachment against the president will look like. This includes how many of them there will be, what exactly they may include. Make no mistake, this is a Pivotal Moment for the country, the articles of impeachment are it, right . Thats what theyre going to vote on. Its not just a do you impeach him. Its on exactly what . Bullet point by bullet point on whether there is a vote to indict the president of the United States and we are told theres disagreement on exactly how to go about drafting the articles and well have much more on those crucial details and the breaking news in just a moment, but it comes as republicans are launching a new attack on the investigation, ignoring the damning evidence of a quid pro quo with ukraine and instead focusing on the process. Heres senator Lindsay Graham with a stunning admission. Im not here to tell you that Donald Trumps done nothing wrong. Im not here to tell you anything other than that the way theyre going about it is really dangerous for the country. So that is trumps staunchest defender on ukraine. Unable to say that the president of the United States did nothing wrong which is pretty incredible if youre going to be the staunchest defender and you cant say he didnt do anything wrong, but graham is defending him on is saying that the people investigating trump are hurting their country and he says his anger is at how theyre going about the investigation. The problem is that selfrighteous indignation does not add up. Here is Lindsay Graham defending republicans conducting the exact same kind of investigation, impeachment, in the exact same way behind closed doors in 1998. The depositions, i think, will determine whether or not we go forward with hearings. I think it is a very smart thing is to depose these people and find out what theyve got to say and not drag this thing out unnecessarily. Very smart thing to depose them, right . Well, i guess the times have changed and the president has changed so grahams view has changed, but graham and trumps other allies are worried after bill taylor, trumps top diplomat in ukraine laid out that evidence of a quid pro quo telling lawmakers, democrat and republican on the committee in the room that President Trump withheld military aid until the ukrainian president announced an investigation into joe biden. So today the best graham could do to push back against those allegations was to say this did he talk to the president . He talked to ambassador sondland who talked to the president. Thats hearsay. . Hearsay . Taylor is a meticulous note taker and he served under all president s beginning with reagan and his first ambassadorship since george w. Bush and in his Opening Statement which took him an hour to read because he had it in such detail, and the hand picked Million Dollar donor ambassador including quotes like key phrases because hed taken so many notes. Ambassador sondland had recommended to president zelensky, i will leave no stone unturned with regard to, quote, investigations. When president zelensky spoke with President Trump. Investigations he said was a term he used when talking to him referring to biden. He put it in quotes. The facts that tonight have democrats openly discussing those actual and informal articles of impeachment and republicans like Lindsay Graham yelling about the process. Manu raju is out front live on capitol hill. Else are you learning about what democrats are saying where theyor possible articles of impeachment . It is very early in the process on moving forward of votes and drafting articles of impeachment. There are discussions among rank and file members and people that sit on key committees about how theyre restructured and theres multiple hours of impeachment to vote against some and vote for others including abuse of power and the obstruction of justice and obstruction of congress. Among those discussion, but what democrats will tell you is that this investigation thats happening is the initial phase, the closeddoor deposition phase and theyve just added two more witnesses to a round of four witnesses who will come next week week and another one on saturday and the people from the state department and the National Security council and how and why that ukrainian aid was held and how much it was tied to the president s demand to have ukraine mount investigations that could help him politically. After those closeddoor deposition, thats where they look at the more public phase when we can look at public hearings and then theyll actually draft a report that will be sent over to the House Judiciary Committee that would be the committee that would consider actual articles of impeachment. So as you can see, were in the first phase of several key steps that could eventually lead to what Many Democrats are saying that it is inevitable that the president would ultimately become the third to be impeached in history. Erin . Manu, thank you very much. Out front tonight, House Majority leader steny hoyer. I appreciate your time tonight and of course, as you heard, we understand democrats are starting to discuss what articles of impeachment would look like and your colleague David Sisilini says members of congress would be talking about what the articles can include. What can you tell us . The speaker and i both said that we want to wait to get all of the facts on whether or not we make decisions to move forward. Im not surprised that members are talking about this possibility, that possibility and the other possibility, but what we are doing now is the Fact Finding Investigation portion of our responsibility under the constitution. When thats completed then it will be timely to discuss, if it is prop tore move ahead, how so, what should the articles of impeachment be or article of impeachment be and im sure members are discussing that themselves. So do you think youre using words leak if and all the facts is it still an if, do you think after going as far as what youve seen, are you putting out there that you might not do it . No. What im saying is we have not done it at this point in time and were waiting to conclude the investigatory part of the investigation and thats proceeding now and when we complete that then im sure we will sit down if the articles are required and appropriate then we will discuss what articles they will be and whether theyll be one, two or more. When you say one, two or more. We do understand that among democrats youre still dealing with, you and the speaker with two camps and those who want to keep any articles focused on the quid pro quo in ukraine and those who want them to be much broader including things from the russia investigation and from the mueller report. Are you open to it being broader than the quid pro quo and ukraine . Im certainly open to it based upon what the facts dictate that we ought to say. I think there are a lot of members who believe that the American People get that it is improper to be asking a foreign head of government to involve himself in our elections. They think thats not the right thing to do under the constitution and laws of our country or under election laws. So that i think that most members believe that is something that most americans believe should not have happened, should not have occurred and they believe its an abuse of power and we dont believe that anybody is above the law including the president of the United States. So that articles, i think, if we move ahead, and i keep saying if because we have not concluded the investigatory process yet and we ought to wait until we do that, but clearly, i think youre right. Youre saying it from a procedural point of view and not an intellectual point of view. Correct. Some of the most damning testimony that we have seen publicly at least when we saw the prepared remarks came from bill taylor. The top u. S. Diplomat in ukraine and he testified there was a quid pro quo. No military aid unless joe biden was investigated. I want to play most exchange between manu raju. He talked to ambassador sondland who talked to the president. Thats hearsay. You dont trust him . If Rudy Giuliani had a 15page statement saying he did nothing wrong wouldnt you want to know more . Would you accept that statement . Ive got nothing against bill taylor. Its the process. Do you buy, congressman, that Lindsay Graham who we just showed he defended this process in the past, do you buy its an issue with the process or do you think hes trying to make this witness look untrustworthy . I think the process argument is a distraction and is phony. What is at question here is the substance of the president s actions. Did he act and did he abuse the power he has as president in not giving the 391 million to the ukraine and russia. We know it is headed by putin and we dont know if the president or putin have talked about this and russia has been advantaged by what happened in turkey. So i think mr. Grahams argument with respect to process is simply a distraction, a pounding on the table. I also want to ask you about one other thing and that is the service of your friend elijah cummings. I know you spoke today, and the House Speaker nancy pelosi and others, not surprisingly, perhaps to many american, and congressman mark meadows. Here is some of what mr. Meadows said. Sondland sdreebed it as an unexpected, but for some of us that know elijah, it is not surprising. Perhaps this place in this country would be better served with a few more unexpected friendships. I know ive been blessed by one. What can what can democrats and republicans learn from congressman cummings who was able to move his friend mark meadow to tears as he remembered him today . First, i think, any american who did not know elijah cummings, nevertheless, they watched him on television and they heard him speak, they knew he was a man of great principle, of great empathy, civility, passion for civil rights, but at core, he was a good human being. He was a human being who respected others. He was a human being who would listen to others. I think thats what mark meadows was saying. We need more of that. Unfortunately, we have a very confrontational politics in our country, which is reflected in our congress, and that, i think, it disturbs the American People. My advice is to elect people like Elija Cummings and it is bassed on principle. Thank you. Out front next, trumps secretary of state grilled by reporters about Rudy Giuliani in ukraine. His answer, youll hear it in full. Trumps top diplomat in ukraine among some republican, but does that mean they will say it publicly . And president ial candidate beto orourke is out front. 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I work hard. I do the right thing as best i can tell every day. You all talk about this noise an awful lot. You all are fixated on this. The state department, you should know, is not. Pompeo clearly irritated during an interview with the wichita eagle. He was obviously in wichita today. Case in point this exchange about five minutes later over President Trumps decision to abandon the kurds in syria, and what he said there was what good really is the work im sorry. We do have that. Okay. What good really is the word of the u. S. In light of the president s treatment of the kurds . Does that undercut u. S. Credibility . The whole predicate of the question is the word of the United States, ill give you a good example. The word of the United States is much more respected today than it was just two and a half years ago. The whole predicate of your question is insane. How does he feel . Out front now, greg bower and pete naftali and congressional reporter, and evan peres, evan, let me start with you. Pompeo was on the phone when trump was on the phone with president zelensky. Since then pompeo has refused to and hes not concerned about the impeachment inquiry. Do those things square . It doesnt and heres why. There is a parade, a virtual parade of people from his department, from the state department that is heading to capitol hill to provide these depositions. There is clearly a disconnect between the way pompeo is trying to portray things and the way things are behind the scenes at the state department. We know that one of his closest aides actually resigned in protest essentially because of how things were being handled. So i think a big part of the story, erin, is exactly what was going on behind the scenes under pompeo as, you know, the ukrainians was trying to figure out where the aid money was and the whole effort that Rudy Giuliani was running behind the scenes and pompeo has a view of all of this and so i think this is why i think, you know, hes trying to put on a brave face, but theres a lot more to come from his department on this. And, tim, not only did pompeo obviously show his frustration there, but he was asked about Rudy Giulianis work in ukraine and hes in his home state and he gave a bunch of interviews and maybe he thought these were friendlier than these seem to have been and they are in kmw radio in kansas and say do you support the work Rudy Giuliani was doing in ukraine . This is a simple question, right . Pompeo starts off as secretary of state, and we have a Singular Mission with respect for ukraine and he goes on about that and hes asked again. So was mr. Giulianis efforts aligned with the state department . Again, simple answer. Thats not what weve got. Pompeo said weve been working tirelessly and this is refusing to talk about giuliani. The giuliani unofficial channel is a real problem for secretary pompeo and heres the problem. Hes either corrupt, that is secretary pompeo or hes a bad manager and secretary pompeo did superbly at west point. He was an army officer. Hes a very wellrespected person. He also understands process. He was an executive officer in the u. S. Army. He oversaw supply management issues. So he cares about process. The giuliani channel was something either he didnt know about in which case hes not running u. S. Foreign approximately see or he knew about it and he bears the same responsibility as giuliani. Its a problem for him. Either way hes in trouble, either as a bad manager. Is it possible that mike pompeo didnt know about this and i say that not to be coy, but hes on that call at the very least where the president of the United States and the president of ukraine talked to Rudy Giuliani, and youve got 391 million of aid held up for these investigations as we understand it at this point. It would seem to me that its just obvious that pompeo knew about it. I think it is obvious. Anything is possible, but it does not seem likely. Both given his role as secretary of state, the fact that he office that call, as you mentioned and the fact that he seems to be very close to the president and the president seems to rely upon mike pompeo for an awful lot. So the idea that the president would be pursuing this sort of shakedown effort without trying to get mike pompeo to help him with it or at least keep him in the loop just doesnt ring true to me. So rachel, i want to ask you about another moment today in this series of interviews that secretary pompeo gave, in one of them he was asked about something bill taylor said in his testimony which was bill taylor was worried about what was going on in the ukraine. He talked to john bolton and bolton said tell pompeo directly. Write him a memo. Taylor does it. He gives it to pompeo. He understands pompeo gets this cable. So pompeo is asked about it today, right . What did pompeo know and when did he know it . Let me play that exchange for you, rachel. What did you do . Im not going to talk about the inquiry this morning. Did you relay his concerns to the president . Look, i came here today to talk about workforce development. I came here today to talk about the great things going on here in kansas. Rachel, he he was not ready for that sort of questioning in his home state. Thats clear, and i dont say it to be funny, but that warrant a stro strong performance. Kansas is a red state and he thought hed get more friend

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