An exclusive interview with president Bidens National security adviser Jake Sullivan. We talk about russias war in ukraine. Threats from china, and americas role in a new world. And it is gpss birthday. This year we mark 15 years of the Global Public square. It is astonishing how much has happened in a decade and a half. And we will bring you the highlights. But first, here is my take. As i was following turkeys recent general election, i was stunned to hear one of the countrys top officials then Interior Minister speaking to a crowd from a balcony jubilant, he promised that erdogan would wipe away whoever caused truoube for turkey and that includes the American Military. And he declared that those who pursue a proamerican approach will be considered traitors. Keep in mind turkey has been a member of nato with American Military bases in the country for about 70 years. Turkish president erdoganoch used antiwestern rhetoric himself before the elections first round, erdogan tweeted that his opponent wont say what he promised to the baby killing terrorists or to the western countries. Erdogan may be one of the most extreme representatives of this attitude but he is not alone. As many commentators have noted, most of the worlds population is not aligned with the west in its struggle against putins invasion of ukraine. And the ukraine war itself has only highlighted a broader phenomenon. Many of the Worlds Largest and most powerful countries in the developing world are growing increasingly antiwestern and antiamerican. When brazil elected lula desilva, many had a sigh of relief that the Jair Bolsonaro has been replaced by a left of center figure. Yet lullu has criticized the west, raised again the dollar and claims that russia and ukraine are equally to blame for the war. This week he hosted venezuela president maduro whose brutal reign has led many to leave his country. He lavished praise on the dictator and criticized washington for imposing sanctions on him. South africa president was a business friendly moderate who had strongfy ties with the west but they have ventured in the russia and chinese orbit. They have refused to condemn the russian invasion of ukraine and has hosted the russian and chinese navies for joint exercises and now stands accused by the United States of supplying arms to russia, allegations that south africa has denied. And then there is india, which has made clear that had no intention of going against russia. Indian statements about her desire to maintain a balance between the west and russia and even china have been so numerous, that one of the most resp respected scholars warned washington not to assume that new delhi would side with it in any future crisis with beijing. What is going on . Why is the United States having so much trouble with so many of the Worlds Largest developing nations . These attitudes are rooted in a phenomenon that i described in 2008 as the rise of the rest. Over the last two decades, a huge shift in the International Systems that taken place. Countries that were once populous but poor have moved from the margins to center stage. Once compromising a negligible share of the global economy, the socalled emerging markets now make up fully half of it. It would be fair to say they have emerged. As these countries have begun economically strong and politically stable and culturally proud, they have become more nationalist and their nationalism is often defined in opposition to those countries that dominate the international system. Meaning the west. Many of these nations were once colonized by Western Nations and so they retain a aversion to a western coral into an alliance or grouping. Reflecting on this phenomenon in the context of ukraine war, russian expect fiona hill said the other factor in this distrust is these countries dont believe the United States when they hear it speak in favor of a rulesbased international order. They see washington, said hill, as full of hubris and hypocrisy. America applies rules to others but violates them itself in the many Military Interventions and unilateral sanctions and opened up to open up to trade and commerce and violating those principals when it chooses. This is the new world. It is not characterized by the decline of america, but rather the rise of everyone else as i wrote in 2008. Vast parts of the globe that were once pawns on the chess board are now players and intend to chart their own often proudly selfinterested course. They will not be easily cowed or cajoles. They have to be persuaded with policies that are practiced at home and not just preached abroad. Navigating this International Arena is the great challenge of american diplomacy today. Is washington up to the task . Go to cnn. Com fareed for a link to my Washington Post column this week. And lets get started. I want to get straight to my interview with Jake Sullivan. The National Security adviser to president joe biden. We sat down on friday at the Eisenhower Executive Office building right next door to the white house. Jake sullivan, pleasure to have you have on. Thanks for having me. Tell me, what do you think about this problem that by some accounts 60 , 70 of the worlds population is not part of the group of nations aligned with ukraine against russia, is not participating in the sanctions. It feels like it created a practical problem which is a large part of the World Economy where russia could swim freely but also a problem of legitimacy. How do you see the situation and what is your strategy . Well, first, i would say that the United States relationship with those countries is not just about ukraine. It is about the full range of issues that were working on together including solving climate change, future economic growth. And so take india for example, it is true they havent joined the sanctions. At the same time Prime Minister modi will be coming to Washington For A State Visit and the u. S. India Partnership has never been stronger across technology, defense cooperation, and in important terms the ties between our two peoples, the two democracies. So as far as im concerned, the big thing the United States needs to do is not have a debate with each of these countries about ukraine, but rather meet them where they are in terms of what theyre trying to accomplish. And that is to deliver for their citizens, to build infrastructure for clean energy transition, to deal with major Debt Challenges coming out of covid, and President Biden has an affirmative agenda to do all of those things. When he was at the g7 hiroshima, he was joined there by other developing countries and they had a robust discussion about ukraine but they talked about the broader range of issues where i think the United States is not on the front foot in terms of trying to deliver Global Public goods that help the lives among the 60 to 70 of the worlds population. When you hear the turkish Minister Of The Interior say the kind of fairly strong antiamerican things he said, when you see that turkey is buying Russian Defense systems, i mean this is a member of nato. Is is turkey fundamentally reassessing its prowestern Foreign Policy . Well first of all, we all know politics. Turkey is a democracy. They just had a president ial election. And strong rhetoric, including antiamerican rhetoric has been a feature of turkish president ial elections for as long as i could remember. So i dont think we should overweight that particular comment. And then when it comes to ukraine, think about what else turkey is doing. Theyre providing Material Assistance to ukraine. They are engaging in every level with ukrainian ms and theyre voting at the United NationsGeneral Assembly on behalf of ukraines sovereignty and territorial integrity. So like always, the picture is more complicated than the idea that turkey has moved into some other column. Their charting a independent Foreign Policy but one in which we could have a relationship with them in the defense space, where Erdogan Request is for the u. S. To provide f16 planes which President Biden said he would like to do. So the president just spoke with president erdogan a couple of days ago to congratulate him on his election and looks forward to working with turkey as a strong nato ally and the same set of global issues we were just talking about a moment ago. When i that you can to leaders in many of the countries and European Countries and canada, one of the things that keeps coming up is american protectionism, nationalism, or cantalism, that the United States is now just looking out for itself and why shouldnt these countries do the same . Well first of all, the United States is some of the lowest barriers to access to our market of any country in the world. Much lower than the set of countries you were describing in your opening statement. Were looking to enhance the ability of many countries to invest in the United States, to join clean resilient Supply Chains as we make this deal with this Climate Crisis. And were looking to deliver for them on their needs. As i said before, the two biggest things that we hear from emerging economies are, one, mobilized public investment, threw the world bank, the imf and directly from the United States for our infrastructure, our digital infrastructure, our physical infrastructure, our energy infrastructure, and we are doing that at scale. And second, help us deal with our debt burden. Make sure that we are able to get out from under the kind of debt that is holding down our ability to deliver for our people. And the United States is in the lead in trying to provide debt relief to emerging economies. And you put those things together and the story we could tell about a positive sum approach from the United States, that were actively trying to look out not just for the needs of the american people, though the president is focused on that, but for the needs of people everywhere because were all in this together. That is at the heart of how joe biden looks at his presidency and it is the approach that hes taken and weve begun to put points on the board. Next on gps, well dig deeper on the war in ukraine. Can it win and can it win back all of the territory from russia . Jame sullivans thoughts when we come back. Annnnouncer fareed zakarari gps, brought to you by our clients portfolios for their longterm goals. other Money Manager but you still sell investments our clients portfolios for that generate high commissions for you, right . Fisher Investments , we dont sell commission products. Were a fiduciary, Obligad To Act in our clients best interest. Ther Money Manager so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money . Fisher Investments yep. We do better when our clients do better. At Fisher Investments, were clearly different. Works hard at hour one and twice as hard when you take it again the next day. So betty can be the. Barcode beat conductor. 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Jake, when you think about the ukraine Counter Offensive, what are you looking for to see that, in fact, the massive investments that the United States has made in helping ukraine are paying off . Well, first, this is not an exam. Were not grading ukraines Counter Offensive and saying did you well based on what you did or you did poorly. We want to support ukraine to make as much progress as possible on the battlefield so it is in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table. And we do believe that this Counter Offensive will allow ukraine to take strategically significant territory back from russia, areas occupied by russia that are rightfully sovereign ukrainian territory. Exactly how many in what places, that is up to developments on the ground as the ukrainians get this Counter Offensive underway but we believe that the ukrainians will meet with success in this Counter Offensive and well continue to support them against russias ongoing aggression. But as you imply in your answer, the success you hope will get translated into a strong negotiating position. So you do expect maybe by the end of the year there will be negotiations about some kind of armistice or deal of some kind . Well im not going to put a time cable on it. Because as you know, war is unpredictable and how developments on the battlefield will have impact. But president Zelenskyy Has said this war will end through diplomacy. And as you heard from Secretary Blinken in a speech he gave this week, the United States believes that any just peace may be based on some foundational principles. One of the principles is rooted in the United Nations charter and it is the sovereignty and territorial integrity. And the countries that you described in your opening statement, whether it is india or turkey or indonesia or others, they have all spoken out about the need to protect the principle of sovereignty and brazil has voted for u. N. General Assembly Resolutions that uphold the territory. Other countries have indicated both in public and in private that is the sinai kwon known of a settlement here. And so that is what were driving for here. Do you think that china now seeming to want to enter into the russian ukraine negotiations, sending an envoy, xi talking to zelenskyy, are these significant moves that suggest that china will put some pressure on russia to back off in some way . Well, we believe that china should play a constructive role in helping bring about an end to the war in ukraine. And that comes back to that same prince pell i was talking about a minute ago. The principle of sovereignty and territorial integrity. And if you look at the 12 principles they put forward in the peace formula, the first principal was that, was about the fact that borders should not be changed by force. So it is up to china to make its determination as to whether it is going to lean in to support that principle of sovereignty and indicate to russia that it will stand behind an outco