America as the nation prepares to celebrate Martin Luther king, jr. s birthday. Aaron sorkin has turned the last three years changing to kill a mockingbird into a broadway sensation. What that can teach us about race intolerance. But first heres my take. As we watch britain go through brexit, its easy to view the decision to depart the European Union as an act of foolishness, a selfinflicted wound that will impoverish britons for years to come. Europe is after all britains largest market, taking in half of the countrys exports. Losing special access to it is a high price to pay for some symbolic gains in sovereignty. The brexit debacle sheds a light on europe itself and one that sees it as stop working, for many of the people at its western european core. I say this as an Ardent Supporter of the European Union, the u. S. And the eu have been the two main . Gens behind a world based on open markets, liberty and law, human rights and global warfare. These values will likely be eroded if the strength and purpose of either of these centers wanes. For the last three decades the european project has wandered off course. What began as a community of nations cooperating to create larger markets, greater efficiency, more political stability became obsessed with two massive issues that have undermined its central achievements. The first was, perhaps, inevitable in the wake of the soviet union as collapse. The rapid integration of a vast number of new countries that were at a very different stage of economic and social development as the eus core countries. Since 1993 the European Union has expanded from 12 countries to 28. While prior to this period, europe was mostly concerned with opening up markets, streamlining regulations, creating new growth opportunities. It now became a transfer union, a vast scheme to redistribute funds from prosperous countries to emerging markets. Even in todays strong economy, eu funds account for more than 3 of hungarys economy and almost 4 of lithuanians. This gap between a rich and poor europe with open borders inevitably produced a migration crisis. For example, as in foreign affair from 2004 to 2014 about 2 million poles migrated to the u. K. And germany. And about 2 million romanians moved to italy and spain. These movements put massive strains on the safety nets of destination countries and provoked rising nationalism and nativism. The influx to europe in 2015 mostly from the middle east must be placed in the context of these already sky high migrant numbers. And as can be seen almost everywhere from the u. S. To austria, fears of immigration are the rocket fuel for rightwing nationalists who then discredit the political establishment that they deem responsible for these unchecked flows. The second challenge consuming the eu has been its currency, the euro. Launched more with politics in body, it has endured a deep structural flaw. It forces a unified Monetary System on 19 countries that continue to have vastly different fiscal systems. That means when a recession hits, countries have few tools at their disposal. Brexit should force britains to think hard about their place in the world and make the adjustments that will allow them to prosper. But it should also cause all europeans to take stock of their project, a great idea that has gone awry. The European Union needs more than tinkering. It needs to return to first principles, find its central purpose and question what aspects of its Current System are not working, not affordable or not manageable. While some americans seem to delight in this prospect, it is in fact bad for america, bad for its interests, bad for its values. For more go to cnn. Com fareed and read my the Washington Post column this week. Lets get started. Lets now focus in on brexit and its implications. We have a special guest, tony blair. Mr. Blair served for more than years as Prime Minister of the united kingdom. He has been an outspoken critic of the idea of a british exit. He joins me from london. Tony, pleasure to have you on. Thanks, fareed. From the start youve been opposed to brexit. Let am ask you just at the fundamental level, your case for it because it does seem to subvert the democratic process, doesnt it . The electorate had a chance to vote on brexit and there wasnt meant to be a doover. No, thats absolutely correct. But i think whats happened is weve had 30 months of negotiation. The deal the governments presented has been voted down heavily, parliament is gridlocked. Its not clear theres any version of brexit thats going to command a majority. Theres many different of brexit, and frankly our knowledge of what brexit really means has been vastly at large in the last 30 months. I dont think theres an unreasonable circumstance to take this back for final resolution to the british people. I peen, were not asking anyone else what their view is. Were asking the british people. And i think given everything thats happened, given the circumstances were in, that is not unreasonable. So thats the case if you like for a second referendum. And right now probably there isnt the support there in parliament for that either. On the other hand, theres no support for a proper brexit proposition, and theres no support for exiting without a deal. So i think as this goes on, its more likely finally that people come around to the fact that in the end of this gridlock in parliament youve got to put it back to the people. And youve argued that there really isnt a kind of a soft brexit, or you cant fudge the issue. That either you are in europe or you are out. Yeah, so heres the essential problem. In one sense this negotiation has never been a negotiation of the conventional sense. Its really a choice. And the choice is between a brexit that keeps you tied to europes trading system because weve spent 4 1 2 decades in europe. Weve been part of the single market, trading relationships have grown up on the basis of were part of that unique european system. You either stay close to that in which case youre going to keep to europes rules, in which case people are going to say why are you doing this brexit . Or you say were going to make our own rules, were going to break free from europe altogether but in which case its going to costuts shortterm and economically longterm painful damage. So thats the problem with brexit. And the negotiation by the way over these last 30 months has been an attempt by the Prime Minister and the government of finding a way of having our cake and eating it, of being part of the european trading system without keeping to its rules. That was never going to become possible. Thats finally become apparent. And so you either choose a brexit thats partial or painless. What do you say to these people that feel theyre emmeshed in a system of which they dont have much control in the European Union and particularly involving migration, which it seems to me has been the core issue for the populism fusing brexit and the western world in general. You know the numbers. 2, 3 Million People from poorer countries in europe moved into places like britain and germany. This was before 2015 when you then had a million middle eastern refugees coming. And they say its too much, too much control, and if thats what it means to be part of this European Union, we need to assert sovereignty. The thing thats driving brexit all over europe is this issue to deal with migration, identity. These are big issues everywhere in the world today. So my ideal situation is a situation where britain thinks again but europe also thinks again. Over these last 30 months we in britain have seen what the difficulties and complexities of brexit are. But frankly the rest of europe has seen its own politics turned upside down. The italrennian election, whats happened in hungary, france, germany, all over europe the same issue. So the sensible thing is for europe to take the strong measures necessary to control the migration properly wreincluding within europe. We have a freedom of movement principle, which is a very essential principle and most people welcome because you can move around europe easily, you can go work in different countries. People get that. The problem is when you get large flows of migration or you get the undercutting of wages. But these are problems you can deal with within the freedom of movement principle. So my ideal situation is where britain remains in europe but europe also reforms. I dont know whether thats possible, but i certainly think it should be one of the options on the table. And, you know, in the end there are problems, of course, with europe. I will say to people there are going to be enormous problems whenever you try to get a whole group of independent nations working together in a formal political structure. But none of these problems are reasons for breaking up europe. What influences me when i look at the world today is i see every month further evidence that power can shift east. Youve got the rise of china. Chinas going to become an even more powerful country in time to come. Its population is double the size of the entire European Union put together. When you look at it actually, three times the size. When you look at it, in the world thats developing, you know, medium sized nations like britain, like germany, like france are going to have to band together in order to keep their interests and influence alive in the world and their values. So there are big geopolitical reasons, not just economic reasons for keeping europe together. But europe will be sensible if it also takes measures of reform. So this is where i think the politics can go. I hope we can go in that direction. Dont go away. More with tony blare when we come back. Well also ask him to look across the channel at what is going on in europe. Do the protests in france and the weakness of Angela Merkel signal change there as well . Well come back in a moment. To , use every possible resource, to fight cancer. And never lose sight of the patients were fighting for. Our Cancer Treatment specialists share the same vision. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. And these are the specialists were proud to call our own. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com. Appointments available now. Learn more at cancercenter. Com. If these packs have the same number of bladder leak pads, i bet you think bigger is better. Actually, its bulkier. 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The debate i often have with people in the United States, if you think the big challenges were going to face are how we deal with the fact that by the middle of the century youre going to live in a multi polar world for the power of china is very significant and large alongside the power of america and india as well, youve got three super powers by the middle of this century. In those circumstances the west should remain united and europe should stand alongside america because in the end, whatever our differences, there are interests we have in common. Most important, there are values we have in common. Were countries that believe in democracy and freedom and the rule of law. These are important values in a world with one or the other centers of power, china is going to be challenging not just for power but also offering a different system of government. In those circumstances, britain, thats traditionally been the country that if you like, bridges atlantic most easily, its damaging for america and not just for europe but i would say damaging for britain, too. All of these issues to do with independent nations wanting to assert their identity. Weve got to resolve those without breaking up that essential structure of the European Union that allows europe to be united and to be a key ally of the United States of america. This is my way of looking at the world because otherwise were going to find as this century progresses and my children and grandchildren work out where they stand in the world, the west is going to be weaker. And thats bad for them and bads f for all of us. When you look at whats going on in france, how much does it dishearten you . Here was macron who was seen as the one centrist reformist figure who was able to in this age of populism get elected, thrive, institute reforms passi passionately proeurope and now it seems his presidency is crippled. Hes making reforms that are difficult, and anyones whos ever been in office and tried to make reform knows its the hardest thing to do because what you find is everyones in favor of reform in general but when it comes to particular reforms you get a lot of opposition. So hes got opposition now, but i personally think what hes trying to do for france is right. And, you know, all over the western world today people are struggling with the fact the worlds changing fast. Were going to have a digital and Technology Revolution in my view that is the single biggest challenge policy makers are going to face over the next 10, 15 years and, you know, were going to struggle with this and political leaders are going to struggle. But the art of Political Leadership is come out the other side with your reform intact and i hope he does that. But wherever you look in the western world today you see tension and difficulty. And what about Angela Merkel . Do you think in retrospect her biggest mistake was to let in those large number of refugees in 2015, that without that she would still be secure, stable, popular . Look, i think, you know, shes been chancellor for a long period of time. I think the refugee issue was a real problem and probably impacted her politics and indeed our politics, but she did it for extremely good motive and for good intensions. You know, weve got to weve got a deeper problem, which is that as the world changes and as you get these big migratory flows some people worry about their communities changing, whether they can retain their own traditional sense of identity, and youve got to be sensitive to those questions and youve got to manage that. And the thing about immigration that i learned in office is that immigration produces energy, vitality, its actually a good thing for a country like britain. But people need to know there are rules around it, there are controls. And if you dont have rules you end up with prejudices. So this is why its important when youre fashioning your immigration policy, people have got to know that at the same time youre accessing the benefits of immigration, youre also putting some structure around it that means they can keep control of it. And particularly, frankly, when youre getting larger numbers of refugees or migrants from majority muslim countries people then worry do people come in and share our values, youve got to be sensitive to it. Now, thats not the say youve become antiimmigrant, but if you dont deal with these pressures, thats what then fuels the sentiment on the far right. Always a pleasure to have you on, tony blaire. Thank you so much for joining us on this important occasion. 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