And an ugly week in america as it passes 150,000 covid deaths and records its worst Economic Quarter ever. Ill talk to an allstar panel about it all. Then casting doubt on mailin ballots. On accepting election results. I have to say im not just going to say yes. I didnt last time either. And now suggesting postponing the elections entirely. Donald trump is setting up a dangerous november. Could america really become authoritarian . Ill ask anne applebaum, who has written a timely new book. Also, the u. S. , in some measures the worlds richest country, has struggled with covid, so how are the worlds poorest faring . For the most part, not well. I will talk to the former British Foreign secretary david miliband. But first heres my take were used to thinking about the american presidency as a position of moral leadership, a bully pulpit in Theodore Roosevelts words and many occupants of the white house have used that function well. But the modern american president also has a core managerial aspect as the ceo of the federal government. And this dimension of power is crucial in a National Crisis. Donald trump has never understood or mastered that role, and that is the central reason why americas krz krz outbreak has turned into a catastrophe. The american presidency has become a symbol of superstar status with pictures of the white house recognizable around the globe, but the constitution actually makes the office weak by design, giving it among the most limited set of powers of any head of government in the world. Preeminent scholar Richard Neustadt noted that to get any done, the president has to use whatever influence he does possess on congress, agencies, the media, state governments, private interests, foreign allies and Public Opinion abroad as well as at home. Compared to all the oppositions, even a strong president is weak. Some argue that the accumulation of president ial power through executive actions has been vast and dangerous. Others note that this expansion is mostly in the realm of international affairs, arguing that there are really two presidencies, a strong one in Foreign Policy and a weak one in domestic matters. In any case, when compared with most parliamentary systems, where the head of government essentially controls both the executive and legislative branch, the american presidency is, indeed, weak. Thats why a National Crisis has always required a heroic exertion of power. It was herbert hoovers failure to use his office to tackle the Great Depression that led to Franklin Roosevelts victory, and it was fdrs creative and effective use to rescue the economy. Ever since then, president s have understood when facing a real challenge, they must use all their talents and efforts to mobilize the governments resources. Now the covid19 pandemic is one such a challenge, one the biggest the country has ever faced but tackling it requires the president to take charge, coordinating and overseeing the actions of dozens of federal agencies, making sure theyre working in concert. It means close cooperation of the states, allowing for some variation and experimentation but still ensuring Core National standards and objectives are met. And it requires a clear, consistent message that educates and leads the public. In other words, its hard work. A comparison with germanys instructive, that country also has a weak Central Government and its chancellor has limited powers, partly because of the nazi past and partly because of a long tradition of decentralization. As a result, when covid19 struck, berlin, too, faced the struggle of multiple sources of authority but the Central Government managed to coordinate its Public Health agency successfully, steering the National Response while exercising a light touch that allowed for some local experimentation, and the quick rollout of testing by private companies and labs. The chancellor Angela Merkel acted as the national guide, presenting the public with Clear Scientific requirement, the rate of spread, and was crucial to keep that number under one. The result is that germany today has 110 deaths per Million People compared with americas 470 deaths per Million People. Trump actually handle says the bully pulpit aspect of the white house effectively. I dont like the ideas he puts forward often, but he does so in an innovative way, using all the tools of social media on to amplify his voice and get out his message. Unfortunately, during the pandemic, he used this platform to promote unproven treatments, discourage mask wearing and stoke antilockdown sentiment. Still trump seems to think Public Relations is the essence of his job. As covid19 hit, he made bold announcements about convenient testing at walmart and cvs, tests with instant results. For the most part, he failed to deliver. This is how trump has handled most of his presidency, from travel bans to repealing obamacare, halfbaked policies are sumly announced, little actually gets accomplished. The point of policy for trump is political theater, not execution. Even when he uses president ial powers, like sending federal troopses on sensibly to restore law and order in cities its really to make a political statement, not to solve an actual problem. Trump has turned the american presidency into a Reality Television show. But the covid19 pandemic has painfully demonstrated that you cannot solve a National Crisis with ratings and tweets. Go to cnn. Com fareed for a link to my Washington Post column this week. And lets get started. Lets get right to this weeks terrific panelists. Robert zoellick was the president of the world bank and he served as deputy secretary of state in the george w. Bush administration. Hes also the author of a new book american and the world a history of u. S. Diplomacy and Foreign Policy. Anne applebaum and Kishore Mahbubani before becoming an academic. Bob, let me start with you. Youve written this terrific book that is really a kind of analytic survey through american history, starting with ben franklin in paris and ending with the present. And a theme that i see consistently in it is that americans have found a way to be practical and find Practical Solutions to problems. So, when you look at that history and you look at where we are with china today, it seems as though on both sides of the aisle there is this view now that american diplomacy toward china failed and we need something very different and much tougher in response. So, how do you react to that . Well, first, thanks for having me on the show. And in a way, your opening is a nice segue into what i was trying to cover in the book, which is the challenge of actually pragmatically trying to address and solve problems. And using all the different instruments of u. S. Power from the presidency on down. Now, as for china in particular, im afraid the relationship appears to be in freefall. And i dont quite know where the bottom is going to be. This is a responsibility of both sides, from chinas and some of the changes under xi and certainly under the trump administration. And i think the starting point is where you ended, which is that for any administration, its important to have a sense of what do you want to accomplish . We know what you can complain about, but what results and how do you want to try to achieve them . In the past, another theme in the book, is over the past 70 years the u. S. s reliance on the reliance system and the Economic Network it created to be more successful and bring other powers to bear. Thats not what this administration has done. Its approach to china in the first three years was to try a bilateral trade pattern which is weak and only half executed. Over the past few months theres been a pivot to what looks like a very political focus to try to blame china for everything. So, whoever is running the white house in the future, the relationship with china, i think, is going to have to try to go back to understand how we try to have a new competition as well as find areas of cooperation on areas like the environment and pandemic issues. And the cold war theme, which you mentioned, will take us in the wrong direction. Anne, how would you respond to what bob was describing, and keep in mind, on both sides of the aisle in washington, i noticed were back in a kind of cold war dynamic by which i mean it is always safer to be a hawk than a dove. It is always safer to claim youre being tough, youre standing up for america, and its happening on both sides, also the u. S. And china. The hawks are, in a sense, reinforcing each other. Fareed, i think youre exactly right. And this return to a new to a cold war, a new cold war, is easy and bipartisan and wrong. To begin with, you know, bob zoellick himself coined the responsible stakeholder idea where we engage china to make it a responsible stakeholder in the world. Its certainly true that approach had its limits and we needed to get tougher with china. But it wasnt a total failure. You know, chinas rise was good for the global economy. It raised hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in china and elsewhere. And china is a player in the global system. It is also true that china is pushing its military power, its technological power in ways we need to stand up to. But it shouldnt be a new cold war. Thats looking backwards. Furthermore, its letting china set the agenda. China pushes and we try to block and now were pushing it at every turn to almost try to deliberately create a crisis. But the point is, china has a vision. It has a vision of what china is going to be technologically advanced by 2025 and by 2049, 100 years after the revolution, it wants to be a highend income country. It has a vision for itself in the world. We need to be competing with china by our own vision of where we want to be in the world. What we want to see with technology, what kind of technology, data governance, human rights, an economic system, an open society. We need to be competing positively, not returning to what is such an easy thing for those of us who grew up in the cold war with russia to say, lets do it all again. Kishore, we dont have a lot of time in this segment, but i want you to tell me briefly, what could we do now . Were in the middle of a pandemic. You have these two countries now at odds. Is there a creative diplomatic path to return to some degree of normalcy . Well, i would make quickly two points. The first one i agree with the points that bob and annemarie have made, and i agree the term cold war is dangerous because it creates a deep sense of complacency on the part of the United States, we can also defeat china. By this time youre taking on a 4,000yearold civilization that is now enjoying its most energetic streak ever in 4,000 years. Take the long view. The second point is right now the four of us, bob, annemarie, you and i were caught on a boat that was caught on fire. The stupidest thing the three of us could do is argue about who started the fire. We should come together and put out the fire. So, the simplest thing the United States and china could do is agree to put a complete pause on the geopolitical contest, focus on putting out the fire, which is covid19, declare an end to the trade war and say, lets stop all that. Guess what. I bet you the markets will bounce as soon as we do that. Fascinating. Now, when we come back, im going to ask all of you, has americas bungling of the Covid Response hurt American Power . How much does it matter . Heres another cleaning tip from mr. Clean. Cleaning tough bathroom and kitchen messes with sprays and wipes can be a struggle. Theres an easier way. Try mr. Clean magic eraser. Just wet, squeeze and erase tough messes like bathtub soap scum. And cakedon grease from oven doors. Now mr. Clean magic eraser comes in disposable sheets. Theyre perfect for icky messes on stovetops. In microwaves. And all over the house. For an amazing clean, try mr. Clean magic eraser, and mr. Clean magic eraser sheets. [ engines revving ] its amazing to see them in the wild like th shhh. For those who were born to ride, theres progressive. A book that youre ready to share with the world . Get published now, call for your free publisher kit today and we are back on gps with robert zoellick, kishore ma into ban any. You see a country that 50 years ago put a man on the moon and, you know, it is clearly floundering with this crisis and the other countries are handled it extraordinarily well. You look at taiwan and it has under a dozen deaths. You look at singapore, where you come from, and the number of deaths are miniscule compared to the United States per capita. What are people saying about america . Well, i mean, i hope you dont mind if im a bit frank in my reply. The esacians admire the United States a great deal, and the elites were all trained in american universities. The best alumni of american universities, and theres a problem, america will solve it first, america would do it best. That was an assumption we all had. Whats happened on covid19 is quite shocking because the number of deaths per million in east asia, as you noted, are all below ten. And the gap is phenomenal. And the key point here is that fareed, is that in east asia, theres always been a respectful government. And they believe good governance, Good Government, is essential. And also suggested both in your opening remarks and in bobs opening remarks about how u. S. President s are very ingenious at using their office to get things done. So, this time its around its am as though whatever the u. S. Could do wrong, it has done wrong. And i can assure you that the rest of the world wants to see the u. S. Do well and wants the u. S. To succeed, but maybe the first thing to do is acknowledge that Good Government the Term Government is good and not bad. Bob zoellick, let me ask you, as a longtime republican and a man with a reputation for extreme efficiency in government, do you think that the antigovernment rhetoric of reagan and thatcher created the defunding of many federal agencies over the years, has it caused a circumstance where it is much more difficult to coordinate a robust Public Health response that requires government in the United States . Well under both the bush 43 administration and the obama administration, they both focused on pandemic issues, so i dont believe that the constant debate to and fro about the nature of government in the United States prevents an effective response. I think the problem is where you pointed your finger at the top. What i want to end on this is the white house is not all of the United States. So, probably most people havent focused as much, but the Federal Reserve did a fantastic job not just for the u. S. Economy but the global economy. I bet as we go forward the private sector woshing with government on vaccines will be a critical part of sort of getting out of this hole. So the next big question from an International Side will be, how will the u. S. Take advantage, our financial and economic power and, frankly, what i think will probably be the critical medical and health solution, and deal with it internationally . Ill give you an example from another republican administration. President bush 43 had an Hiv Aids Initiative that probably did more for African Health that any u. S. Relations are africa. That will be the challenge for the next u. S. Administration. Kishore, we should just tell viewers we lost annemarie slaughter. The minute she gets back, well bring her back. Kishore, let me ask you, when you look at this challenge, you know, getting the world together, do you think china bears some responsibility as well . Under president xi, it has become more nationalistic, it has become more repressive. You see the way it is now implementing the National Security law in hong kong to stifle political dissent. Its gotten tougher on neighbors like india. Doesnt china need to do hard int introspection . Absolutely right. China has become a much more difficult country to deal with. But thats a natural event as a result china will become much bigger. Becoming much bigger. Remember in 1918 in ppe terms, chinas gdp was 10 of the United States. 10 . So, while im talking to you, theres a little cat in my room. After a few minutes the cat has become a tiger. The tiger is a different animal to deal with. Now, the question is this, can we wish china away . Can we ask china to immediately conform to our needs . And i say, it cannot happen. We have to deal realistically with the china we have. And i believe we can cooperate with china and ask china to behave exactly as bob said, as a responsible stakeholder, and make it clear what we expect of a responsible stakeholder. And i believe we can get that done with china. Annemarie slaughter, were glad to have you back. Let me ask you in the final minute, what is your reaction to the fact that american citizens now are banned from europe . Did you ever think you would see this . This has to be the nadire of the america in the world in my lifetime. We have been disliked for many things. Weve had many controversies. But right now the world is looking at our spectacular incompetence and disfunction. I never thought id see anything like it. Annemarie slaughter, kish e kishore, bob zoellick, thanks for being on. As the president p