Well, thats, as we look at foreign adversaries, that is always the issue. Capability and intent. And certainly with in the case of the russians, they do pose an extensial threat to the United States and i agree with chairman dunford on that. Its probably not our play, at least my place, in the Intelligence Community to do an assessment of our intent. Thats someone elses place, not mine. Senator shaheen. Thank you, mr. Chairman and senator reed for holding this hearing and thank you all for testifying this morning and for your service to the country. Dr. Robert kagan testified before this Committee Last december with respect to russia. And at that time, there was less information known to the public about what had happened in their interference in the elections. But one of the things he pointed out was that russia is looking at interference in elections, whether that be cyber or otherwise. The whole messaging piece that you discussed with senator heinrich. As another strategy, along with their military action and economic and other diplomatic methods, to undermine western values, our Euroatlantic Alliance and the very democracies that make up that alliance. Is that something that you agree with, director clapper . Yes, thats clearly a theme. Its certainly something the russians are pushing in messaging in europe. They would very much like to drive wedges between us and western europe. The alliances there. And between and among the countries in europe. And i assume that theres agreement on the panel . Does anybody disagree with that . So one of the things that i think has emerged as ive listened to this discussion is we dont have a strategy to respond to that kind of an effort. We dont have a strategy thats been testified with respect to cyber, but a broader strategy around messaging, around how to respond to that kind of activity. Do you agree with that . I think we im speaking personally. Sure. Institutional response as i commented earlier to senator mccain, i do think we need a u. S. Information agency on steroids that deals with the totality of the information realm and to mount in all forums and to include social media. Im sorry to interrupt but can i just ask, why do you believe that hasnt happened . Director clapper, admiral rogers . For my part, i dont know why it hasnt. I cant answer that. Admiral rogers . From my perspective, in part because i dont think weve come yet to a full recognition of the idea that were going to have to do something fundamentally different. I think we still continue to try to do some of the same traditional things weve done and expecting to do the same thing over and over and yet achieve a different result. No, thats the definition of crazy. I think weve determined that. Secretary . I would just add in this area, the capability and intent framework is useful to think about. I think it is only in the last few years that we have seen adversaries with true intent to use propaganda and the ability to reach out as terrorists are doing and try to incite and match that up with the tremendous power that social media tools allow to make that easy and simple and effective and broadly applicable. So given that this is a strategy and given that its aimed not just at the United States, particularly with respect to interference in our elections, but at western europe and Eastern Europe for that matter. Is there an effort under way to work with our allies through nato or otherwise . Ive been to the Cybersecurity Center in estonia. But there didnt seem to be a nato agreement that this was something that we should be working on together to respond to. So is this an effort thats under way . Just speaking from my lens of things, theres a lot of interest in doing that and doing it more effectively and comprehensively, but we have not cracked the code on doing it effectively yet. We need to keep the pressure on ourselves and our nato allies who are likeminded in this regard to keep improving our approach. And its also got to be much broader than cyber. Thank you. Director clapper, my time is almost up, but before you go, since this is the last opportunity well have to hear from you, can i just ask you, do you think that the dni needs reform . Well theres always room for improvement. I would never say that this is the ultimate. I do think it would be useful, though, if were going to reform or change the dni or change cia that some attention be given to, in our case, the legislative underpinnings that established the dni in the first place and then added additional functions and responsibilities over the years that congress has added to our bag of duties. But to say that, you know, we cant, theres not room for improvement, id never suggest that. I appreciate that, and i certainly agree with you. If theres going to be this major reform, hopefully both legislators and others who have been engaged in the Intelligence Community will be part of that effort. Thank you. I certainly agree the congress, no pun intended, gets a vote here. Thank you. I know that our time has expired, and i apologize to our new members that we wont have time because you have to go, but maybe, director clapper, since this may be, hopefully, your last appearance, do you have any reflections that youd like to provide us with, particularly the role of congress or the lack of role of congress that in your years of experience . Im going to have to be careful here. I dont think you have to be. I was around in the Intelligence Community when the oversight committees were first established and have watched them and experienced them ever since. Congress does have, clearly, an extremely Important Role to play when it comes to oversight of intelligence activities. And unlike many other endeavors of the government, much of what we do, virtually all of what we do is done in secrecy. So the congress has a very important, a crucial responsibility on behalf of the American People for overseeing what we do, particularly in terms of legality and a protection of privacy. At risk of delving into a sensitive area, i do think theres a difference between oversight and micromanagement. Well, we thank you. We thank the witnesses, and this has been a very helpful and, director clapper, well be calling you again. Really . This hearing is adjourned. Welcome to inside politics. Im john king. Youve been listening for the past 2 1 2plus hours the Senate Armed Services committee with a hearing call to explore the broad cyberthreats against the United States. Most of the questioning focussing on the russian hack of the Democratic National committee. Clinton Campaign ChairmanJohn Podestas emails during the past president ial campaign. The director of National IntelligenceJames Clapper saying he has no doubt this was orchestrated by russia saying he feels more strongly about this than when they first issued a statement about it during the Election Campaign back in october. A lot to discuss. A lot of the hearing highlights to play back and discuss this hour. My inside Politics Panel is here with me. Lets go first live to cnns phil mautsi imattingly. Evan perez will also join us. Phil, lets start with you. This is a hearing call by the republican chairman, john mccain, who clearly, although he was very polite. He did not get into a battle publicly with donald trump. Clearly wanted to have the Intelligence Community come in, make clear once again they believe russia meddled in the president ial election and mccain wants the president elect, no doubt, to listen to them and to believe them. Yeah, no question about it, john. If this was a 2 1 2hour hearing, you can say probably 2 hours and 23 minutes of that were related to russia and related specifically to the activities that the Intelligence Community has assessed they participated in, in the leadup to the november 8th election. You saw an interesting balance here. On the political side of things, youve seen a lot of republican senators who, behind the scenes, they and their advisers have told me and several reporters have been uncomfortable with the position hes taken on russia in general on Foreign Policy but also in his critiques and sometimes attacks on the Intelligence Community. I think a lot of what you saw from john mccain who as you notnote ed never mentioned donald trump throughout the course of this hearing. It was to make the case, set the case up to cut down on a number of criticisms you heard from the president elect. You also saw democrats repeatedly try and push the intelligence officials towards making that same case for them as well. Its an interesting moment because so many republicans right now empowered at this moment on capitol hill. In 15 days, empowered in the white house as well, are trying not to cross their president elect. They dont want to upset him as they start to move forward on their agenda. No question with the chairman of the committee, john mccain. Ted cruz on some parts trying to make this case this should not be a partisan issue. Russia should not be a country they, as republicans, should embrace on the Foreign Policy things and most importantly what happened in the leadup to the election isnt something that should be ignored. What we heard about the report, it was ordered by the Obama Administration into what actually occurred. James clapper, the director of National Intelligence, confirming that report will be released early next week. Likely monday officials have told cnn. And the most important part, several lawmakers made the case. Our constituents dont take you at your word here. You need to go further than that. Clapper saying theyll do their best to push the envelope on the unclassified version as much as they can. It will be interesting what that looks like. It sure will be. Phil mattingly. Evan perez, as you come in, pick up where phil left off. Director clapper wasnt going to discuss the classified report. It was presented to the president today. President elect trump will be briefed on it tomorrow. Theyll try to release as much as they can without disclosing methods and sources and other classified, Sensitive Information to the public. But as the hearing went on to director clapper did seem to feel a little more freedom to be more specific and saying, yes, it was russia, yes, not much happens in russia without president Vladimir Putins approval. Did you learn anything new listening to this today . Thats what happens in these types of hearings. You get drips and drabs of pieces of what clapper already has prepared in this report. Right at the beginning of that hearing is when the report had already been delivered to the president , and he was about to get briefod it. So during the time that these members of congress were questioning clapper and other members of the Intelligence Community there, the president himself was getting briefed on the report that James Clapper and dni prepared for him. Key parts of this he said that obviously the russians, we expect this will be part of the report. The russians were not just behind the extracting of the data but were also in the dissemination part of it, including the fake news stories, some of the stuff that weve all highlighted that sort of caused outrage during the president ial campaign. He called it part of this Disinformation Campaign that he says continues to this day. So thats an interesting part of it. And we expect to see that to come into the report. He also called it one of the most aggressive campaigns hes ever seen. The russians have been doing this going back to the 1960s. Obviously, this country has also been involved. A couple ever senators pointed out the United States has been a part of influencing elections overseas. But what James Clapper was saying is this was one of the most aggressive campaigns that he has ever seen, and he also described multiple motivations which is a very key part of this, john, because the president elect thinks that what the Intelligence Community is doing is undermining his election. Thats not what James Clapper is trying to do, as you heard from him. Hes saying, we cant tell what caused people to pull the numbers on november 8th, but we do know what the motivation was of the russians. Evan perez, Phil Mattingly on capitol hill, thank you. A fascinating conversation to continue. With me cnns niamalika 00erson, dan balls of the Washington Post, matt visor and walt cook. This is an issue thats been with us some time. The fact mccain wanted to have this on the third day of the new congress. Usually Congress Comes in, they swear themselves in say hello and disappear or go off to do business we dont much care about. This has been a very busy first congress. Now the president elect will get briefed on the classified report tomorrow. Hes publicly said he doubts russia did this. Doubts putin would be involved. Hes disparaged the Intelligence Community through tweets and some public comments. Some of what we heard today was subtle. Some of it they leave us to connect the dots but listen to sar senator Lindsey Graham. John mccains best friend. John mccain made his points without mentioning president elect trump by name. Lindsey graham, he wasnt afraid to go there. You agree with me that the foundation of democracy is political parties, and when one Political Party is compromised, all of us are compromised . Yes, sir. All right. Now as to what to do. You say you think this was approved at the highest level of government in russia, generally speaking. Is that right . Thats what we said. Okay. Who is the highest level of government . Well, the highest is president putin. Do you think a lot happens in russia that he doesnt know about . Not very many. Yeah, i dont think so. Certainly none that are politically sensitive in another country. Okay. Now as we go forward and try to deter this behavior, were going to need your support now and in the future. So i want to let the president elect know that its okay to challenge the intel. You are absolutely right to want to do so. But what i dont want you to do is undermine those who are serving our nation in this arena until you are absolutely sure they need to be rundermined. And i think they need to be uplifted, not undermined. Were laughing a bit because its great theater and senator graham has an interesting banter back and forth. But, dan, were 15 days, two weeks away, from a new president. You have senior members of his own party essentially trying to hit him in the has with a 2x4 and say, mr. President elect, stop disparaging these people. Accept their findings. It seems to be universal that director clapper saying he had zero doubts the russians were behind this. Its a fascinating moment. A Significant National security question, but its sort of a very blunt not so subtle message there for the republican president elect. Well, all along weve had to separate the political from the policy, security questions. But you mentioned the 2x4. The senators and others in the Republican Party think that the president elect has hit the Intelligence Community with a 2x4. And they are trying to respond in kind to set this up. I mean, up until now, what weve had are indications, statements. We are soon to get this report. President elect is going to get the report tomorrow. The president has is. There will be a public version of this. It will be then, at that point, this will become a very supercharged issue. What does donald trump do once real evidence is put out by the Intelligence Community as to the specific things that the russians did . The degree of which they were aggressive in this and to the multiple motivations that mr. Clapper talked about. This has all been a prelude to what is likely to be a real problem for the president elect next week. And he has set up a situation where he begins his presidency with an adversarial relationship with the people who brief him on the most sensitive issues in the world. And senator graham and others mentioned it in the other days of his administration. North korea may roll an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile on to a test launch pad and the new president may have to decide what to do about that. Does he believe the people telling him that . Theres another thing that came up in this hearing very early on where mccain specifically asked clapper and others whether Julian Assange, someone donald trump now has also been saying has credibility, whether or not this man should be given credibility for what hes saying about the fact that russia did not give him the emails that came from John Podestas hacked account. And point blank, they said, no, we do not trust jewulian assang nor should the president elect. This is a game that republicans will be playing for the rest, certainly for the immediate future, and it could be for the entire tenure of Donald Trumps presidency is this idea that while they want to be with him on some of these issues when hes challenging democrats, when hes challenging what they see