Theyre piling up. I feel a little badly about it. They went back 12 years to get things he did 12 years ago . Hes not going to pardon anybody in this investigation but he is not, obviously, going to give up his right to pardon if a miscarriage of justice is presented to him. Two adults, four children just finished crossinging the rio grande here a little while ago and now theyre in the custody of Border Patrol. I hate the children being taken away. The democrats have to change their law. You can tell dhs to stop doing it. I think its so disguftsing. So disgusting that people are trying to use the bible in the same way they use the bible to justify slavery. So it is 8 01 on a saturday morning. We are so grateful to have you with us. Im christi paul. Im Martin Savidge in for victor blackwell. As President Trump wakes up at the white house this morning, Paul Manafort, his former campaign chairman, is waking up in the vip section were told of the Northern Regional jail in virginia. We dont know what that means to be in the vip section but he arrived there last night. This was video captured after his bail was provoked. He may remain in jail until his trial starts in september. President trump called the treatment of manafort unfair. Then hours later his attorney giuliani says pardons could be in the pipeline if the president thinks his former staffers are prosecuted unfairly. My advice to the president of the United States, as his lawyer, not as a government lawyer, is no pardons. It would completely change the momentum that we have right now because its very strong right now. You can see the polls moving in the president s favor and against mueller. Why did you suggest it . I didnt. What i said was after the investigation is over, then it has to be considered as a governmental matter, not by me. What the history has been is these things get cleaned up. Ford did it. Reagan did it. Carter did it. Clinton did it and bush did it in political investigations. Youre saying after the probe is over, it may be cleaned up with any pardons . If people were unfairly prosecuted. So its pretty clear this morning the question is, is giuliani sending a message . Cnn politics reporter joining us live from washington. Jeremy, what is your take on that . What are you hearing from washington about that argument that maybe hes sending a signal here to manafort and the others to say dont worry about it. Ive got it taken care of. This is the latest mixed messages weve heard from Rudy Giuliani hours before he said that to chris cuomo, he suggested in the New York Daily News that pardons could be used to clean up this case. The question really is, what is giuliani and the president trying to say to Paul Manafort and others who potentially could be implicated in the case. The president tweeted this was a tough sentence on manafort although he hasnt been charged. His bail was just revoked by a federal judge. But the question of pardons has obviously been swirling out there. The president has issued several pardons already to people who arent involved in the special counsel case and a lot of suggestion its a signal that if the special counsel gets too close to the president that a pardon could emerge. Now the point sheer that manafort is now going to be under more pressure to flip on the president and start cooperating because instead of being in the comfort of his own home, hes now in a federal prison. Jeremy, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Heres the other question can anything or anyone stop the president from freely using his power to pardon . Page payton, cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney with us right now. So lets talk about that real quickly because we heard giuliani say at one point the president is not going to let go of or give up his right to pardon if he sees theres a miscarriage. Nobody is asking him to do that, though. Not yet, though. Right. Theyve already sent the message they think at least trump and his team thinks that manafort is being treated unfairly. Thats basically what he said. The question is when are you going to issue that pardon . Are you going to do it now, which he could and immediately hed be released from jail or wait until the process is over . Wait until the investigation is complete . Wait until manaforts two trials have been completed and wait until hes convicted . So we want to listen to Rudy Giuliani again because he did also in his conversation with chris cuomo talk about what he believes is a critical error bob mueller made. I believe bob made one critical error thats going to doom this investigation. Which is what . Hiring those people. I would never have done it. If you look at special independent counsel probe, they generally get nonpolitical people. Threequarters of the prosecutors of high regard in this country, im talking about federal now, are not involved in partisan politics. I wasnt involved in partisan politics until i ran for mayor. Is that true . Generally is that true . What weve seen and been seeing is the trump team attacking the investigators instead of the substance of the investigation. Thats something defense lawyers always do. Im always going to focus on any issue i can find to attack or at least bring into question the credibility of the agents and the other investigators who are involved in the case. But how do you screen everyone who has some political belief, some political feeling . You get to a point where youll not have anyone investigating the case. While the credibility of the investigation is critically important, a particular investigators political views are not necessarily important unless they affect the conduct of the investigation. Weve not seen that here, even though im certain bob mueller wishes those tweets and messages had never been sent out, the tweets back and forth between the agents. That. But it works into the hands of the president and, of course, Rudy Giuliani by just insinuating the whole process is flawed, that theres a political method to this madness going on here. It works for them to continually try to erode the competence in this investigation. And they have an audience for that. Already a number of people in this country believe this investigation is purely politically motivated. Its a witch hunt. When you have Something Like this, these Text Messages that clearly never should have been sent, it clearly adds fuel to that fire. And the talks of the pardons, Rudy Giuliani, he tried to walk that back a little bit. Lets listen here. Let me make it clear right now, anybody listening. Please. Hes not going to pardon anybody in this investigation. But he is not, obviously, going to give up his right to pardon if a miscarriage of justice is presented to him. Doesnt that wind up meaning that he you are shaking your head. Theres no doubt that President Trump is going to pardon Paul Manafort. The only question is when. I think the concern that Rudy Giuliani and others have is some people could say you can use the pardon power in a manner to obstruct justice if you do it during the course of the investigation, especially if theres reason to believe that the people on the receiving end of that pardon could testify against you. I think its why are you so certain, though . That hes going to be pardoned . Yes. Giuliani says hes willing to use the pardon power if someone has been treated unfairly. And President Trump tweets out he thinks the sentence is wrong. He already tells us he thinks manafort is being treated unfairly. Hes sitting in jail and hasnt been convicted. I dont downtoubt thats coming. The optics of pardoning someone during the investigation could look like obstruction. But if you think theyre going to flip, would it be possible to try to cut that off . Its possible, absolutely. Then well get into the legal weeds here. If you pardon someone early enough where theyre not facing any criminal expose uthen they have no fifth amendment privilege. Then bob mueller or another prosecutor could call that person as a witness and force them to festify about what they know because they cant say im not going to talk because you may prosecute me. Once youve been pardoned, you dont have that same fifth amendment right. Do you think Paul Manafort has been treated unfairly . I dont know about the substance of the case against him. There are a lot of charges. But if you violate the bond conditions while out on pretrial release, youre going to go to jail. So put all the other stuff aside, he didnt follow the rules. If you dont follow the rules in federal court youll wait in jail for your trial. All righty, always appreciate your expertise. Thank you for being here. Absolutely. Well have more Rudy Giuliani ahead, giving us his take on trumps 2020 prospects, making some really harsh comments about former Vice President joe biden. Hes dumb. I think joes last in his law school class. Had a plagiarism problem in law school and as a senator, which i think indicates something even about character. Also, the scoreboard on fire at the world cup. Six goals were scored. Three by one man. He makes his case for being the greatest of all time. Also controversy at the border. Now an idea of how many children have been separated from their parents. With an ingredientyour bn originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. I do. Check out the new united explorer card. Saving on this saving on this saving in here. Rewarded learn more at theexplorercard. Com dependability award for its midsize carthe chevy malibu. I forgot. Chevy also won a j. D. 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Part of that policy, of course, includes the controversial practice. It has created anguish at the border. Confusion and frustration in washington and drawn criticism from the religious community. Well talk more about the politics of all of this in a moment but we want to talk more about the people who are living the story. Ed lavandera has been speaking to some of those families. He joins us live from mcallen, texas. I say the number 2,000 but this isnt about a number. This is about children and families. The number is to capture the scope of what is going on. Thats fascinating to think about that number just includes those separated between april 19th and may 31st. Doesnt include the last two weeks. So that number is only expected to go up. And the Trump Administration has had to open up another temporary facility out in far west texas to house these children. One of the things the Trump Administration has been saying all along, especially attorney general Jeff Sessions is that they hope as news of this spreads through Central America that this will serve as a deterrent. As we saw firsthand yesterday, that isnt necessarily the case. Its hard to see people moving through the thick south texas vegetation. The rio grande rolls by just beyond the tree line. And then just like that, they appear out of the brush. A small group of undocumented immigrants walking into a public park. We just came across this group of undocumented immigrants here in the town of mission, texas. Two adults, four children, just finished crossing the rio grande here a little while ago. And now theyre in the custody of Border Patrol. This group is made up of three different groups. They met along the journey from honduras and decided to enter the country together. They are given water and sit in the shade as they wait for a vehicle to take them to a Border Patrol station. Theres jonathan ariel, 11 years old. He left honduras with cousins but they abandoned him along the way. His mother lives in virginia and told him not to make this journey alone. But now hes here. I told her i wanted to come but she said its very dangerous. Are you scared . A little he says. Its a brief conversation that leaves you with many more questions about how a young boy can get to this point. As an unaccompanied minor, he will likely end up for the time being in a childrens shelter like this one as federal authorities try to connect the boy with his mother. The rest of this group is made up of two adult women with their children. Dahlia is 24 years old. She crossed the border with her little boy. Why did you come . She says gang members left a note at her home threatening to kill her and thats when she decided to flee. Are you afraid theyll separate you from your children . Yes, hes my son and i love him, she says. I have carried him throughout my journey. She did not know that she might be separated from her son once she was taken into custody in the United States but she says i have nothing in honduras. The families are loaded up and taken away unsure of what happens next. So what happens to these Young Children now . Jonathan there, because hes an unaccompanied minor and thats different from children who come with their parents or guardians, hes automatically kind of cast into another situation. Thats why i mentioned he may be put into a detention facility while they try to connect with his mother. I spoke with his mother yesterday afternoon. She said she already heard from him and was waiting to hear from immigration authorities as to what happens next. As far as the other two adults and their children, this is where the situation gets murky. Even though the Trump Administration has been saying that it is pushing for 100 enforcement of illegal entry that federal misdemeanor charge, that is not happening. Were seeing throughout the week here in south texas a number of undocumented immigrants with their children who have been captured and released given a court date and a gps ankle monitor to track their movement. So it is not 100 , but dhs, department of Homeland Security folks will not explain how these decisions are made. Why some people are prosecuted and why others are released. What happens to the other part of that group is still unclear today. Ed lavandera, thank you so much. Attorney general Jeff Sessions and other Administration Officials have defended the practice as being biblical. Lawmakers in both parties we should point out, along with others have criticized the family separations. Even President Trump has suggested its cruel but theres been some confusion over what he would do about it. Republican leaders in Congress Plan to put their plans for an immigration bill that could address the separations on hold. They say because the president said friday that he wouldnt support it. A couple of different bills on immigration probably next week. Yeah. One of them, a bit more moderate. I certainly wouldnt sign the more moderate one. I need a bill that gives this country tremendous border security. I have to have that. Got to have a wall . We have to have the wall. If we dont have the wall, theres no bill. All righty. Later, white house official said the president misunderstood that question and, quote, this is from the white house. Fully supports both the goodlatte bill and house leadership bill. He was commenting on the discharge