Transcripts For CNNW Nikki 20240705 : vimarsana.com

To deal with russia. We want to talk about all of this with abby phillip and audie cornish, who are here now. Abby, whats your take away . I think what youre raising about abortion really speaks to something that i could not ignore, which was that this was a republican audience in the state of iowa about the republican caucuses. But she was speaking to a national audience. She was really trying to present herself, i think very differently from many of her other colleagues in this race. But she was also trying to leave herself a lot of room on some issues like abortion. I thought it was so striking to me, just the tonal difference here. This was almost like a republican candidate circa the george w. Bush era, incredibly hawkish on Foreign Policy, serious and very substantive on a number of other issues, whether its on entitlements or government spending, even things like guns and the border and china. But i was keeping track. It took her 70 minutes to say the word woke after she was asked a question about it. I thought that was notable too. I think she did not steer the conversation into the territory of things that would get you retweets and likes on social media. And that was a choice. But when she did get to it, she really went for it on those issues of socalled wokeism. Theres a lot to say about that, but those are the things that struck me. There was a moment on that issue, she was talking about trying to personalize it saying that her daughter ran track in school and she couldnt imagine what it would be like for her to be in a locker room with somebody who was born a man. And then questioned whether or not that has an impact on teenage suicide among girls. And then jake pushed back on the other side of that, which is that theres also a high rate of suicide among trans kids. Also a wild thing to say because she had spent much of the conversation talking about Mental Health and Mental Health statistics. And i think tying those things together the way she did was probably an error, frankly. It was interesting that on the issue of wokeness or culture war issues, she picked very specific lanes. One was this idea of kind of trans exclusionary talk, meaning the Gender Identity of trans youth, illegitimate in her eyes. She repeatedly called young people, biological boys, et cetera. So she had a very specific thing she wanted to talk about, and she also went after desantis in the most specific way in terms of line of attack, not just talking about whats going on with disney now, but his past relationship with disney and how hes playing it up as an executive. It was one of the few times she poked at somebody else running in the race. I noted that she said weve gone down that road before, kind of hitting him for hiss confrontational tone with disney. And it was sort of a subtweet at donald trump, basically implying trump without actually saying it. I want to go back to abortion because this is an issue that tripped up republicans in the 2022 midterms. And this is an issue that republican strategists are trying to and activists are trying to work with candidates to try to find the right language, never mind the right policy positions. And she punted it. And she said, im punting, basically. And thats not going to fly with evangelical christians, with the antiabortion movement, which is very powerful still in the Republican Party. Theyve been pretty clear. They want candidates who are on that stage, who are running for president on the republican side, to say how many weeks they are willing to support an abortion ban. She refused to say that. She said there was a federal role, but she made point and shes probably right about this. There are not 60 votes for federal bans at probably six weeks. But, you know, jake rightfully pressed her and said, youre a candidate. Youre running for president. What is your position . Where do you stand . She still wouldnt go there. That is going to be an issue for her in this primary because these first of all, evangelical voters are a huge chunk of the Republican Party right now. And the leaders of these groups are really pushing for a number. They want to hear a commitment. And she did not give that. Thats all true, and theres so many policy questions and answers to dissect on a whole host of issues. But one thing that really struck me was how folksy she was and how personal she got when she answered a lot of these issues. When she answered about abortion saying, im pro life. And for many reasons, one of them was that i had trouble getting pregnant. And she talked about other issues, whether it was i know shes talked about this before, but on the stage. Whether it was what happened in South Carolina and the flag and her personal experience being at that farm stand when her father was discriminated against. Right. There were a lot of points throughout this town hall where she brought that humanity. And thats no small thing. Shes very effective at using her personal biography to make specific points. But it also allows her to dodge certain issues and questions. So, you hear why her sort of thinking you hear her thinking through being a candidate who is against abortion. But then what slides right under that is an attack against the Biden Administration, unfairly claiming that their stance is abortion up until birth, when we know that the president has said that they basically support the codification of roe v. Wade, which does allow for abortion restrictions. You cant attack someone on their personal biography, right . Its the same thing she can talk extensively about the effects of racism in her life but always ends by essentially saying its not systemic, that this is just something i went through and everything is fine now because america is a great country. So, i think that theres this kind of onetwo punch, which is, like, heres this part of my biography that some Middle Of The Road voters will really kind of find appealing, and heres the more hardline policy that comes along with that. And, you know, it remains notable that every time she talks about the mother emanuel shooting in charleston, she kind of avoids talking about race. When that shooting was carried out by a white supremacist. Or guns. The policy she said tonight was, ending gunfree zones. That means around schools, et cetera. One thing i believe was new or newish was her opposition to a red flag law. She believes they dont work, that the government cannot do them in a proper way. This is a significant part of the Biden Administration policy, but its also something that some republicans, especially local law enforcement, have embraced. But shes staking out pretty hardline positions on these issues. That are wrapped in soft biography details. I do think the presentation does matter. It does. Its important when you are on that stage. Theres some choreography to it. Addressing the audience in the room and the audience of people at home and understanding how to use that stage effectively. And im not bringing this up to be superficial about it, but it starts to matter when you see youre going to see a lot of candidates on these stages over the next few months. Some of them are going to be practiced and rehearsed at presenting themselves well, at remembering the lines that theyre supposed to deliver, at delivering them effectively, at pivoting. And just on the blocking and tackling of being on that stage, she really showed, i thought tonight, that she has that particular experience. And itll be a major question for a lot of the other candidates, some of whom have more or less experience on the national stage, whether theyre able to do the same thing. Weve seen this trip up candidates before in the past. And this is what campaigning in iowa looks like. Youve been there. It is that close physically even closer. If she was sitting on a hay bale, that would be the thing, at the iowa state fair. It was very similar, the way she used the stage blocking, as you said, effectively turning her back on jake at some points to address the audience directly. All of that polish is part of her presentation. In part of the lecture, she said, god bless you. I saw that. She was on the role of being on the road and shaking every single hand. And i think you saw some of the effects of that polishing. All right. Well, katelyn, theres a lot to chew on. I know that you have to deal with all of the political experts and people who have actually worked on campaigns in iowa and elsewhere up there in new york. Yeah, including some who worked for haley herself. So well get to the table. Scott, i want to start with you. Before the town hall, you were saying nikki haley is perceived to be this candidate who sometimes tries to have it both ways. You talk about how she has wavered on trump and other issues. Did you get clarity on where she stands on issues. On a few. Some of the stuff she said, i loved. The russia answer, the cleareyed defense of what were doing there and what we have to win, also a cleareyed bashing of evil dictators in the world. I loved the covid stuff. I thought she had clear honesty on entitlement reform. She had a clear and Strong Defense on women and girls who she believes and a lot of republicans believe are under attack from trans activists right now. I did not love her assailing of the debt limit deal. She attacked it and turned around and said, we ought to be clawing back the Unspent Covid money and getting rid of the irs agents, which the covid deal does. So, thats an example of thats what a politician would do, uninformed recitation of talking points. I didnt hear her go after biden as much as i would have wanted frankly as a conservative. I probably tactically would have gone after desantis earlier and harder than she did. I thought that was coming sooner. I was surprised about that. Bottom line for me, she might be the most polished politician in the race. The trouble is, this primary is taking place in a party that doesnt love polished politicians right now. When shes winding up, she gives a lot of politician pablum before she gets into the substance of it, and people arent into it right now since donald trump came on to the scene. You worked in the trump white house. What is your sense how she did . She came to the table astute, prepared, and substantive on policy. My fear is thats not necessarily what republican Primary Voters want right now. She was incredibly effective in when she was getting into entitlement spending. She sounded like a candidate frankly from eight to ten years ago, when we were fiscal conservatives, when dedid stand with our allies abroad. But she articulated it better than most. And i think the case she needs to continue to make is on day one, i have the experience as a governor and former u. N. Ambassador to deal with world issues. When shes talking Foreign Policy, she could go toe to toe with the president of the United States right now. That is her greatest strength. I do think that for somebody who is kind of running on the im the compassionate conservative in the race, which i think is deeply, deeply needed, shes got to have i think a more filled out position on the trans issue. I say that because the Trans Community is a minority within a minority. I know it is very animating to talk about these issues in a republican community. But be that unifier, sit down with trans actiactivists, trans Mental Health expert, female athletes that feel theyve been disadvantaged, and try dom up with a solution. Youve listened to her. How should she handle trump . How should she handle desantis . She wasnt naming them by name. She was critical of trump meeting with kim jongun. What was your sense of how she handled her top two rivals right now. She did get to it late on the issue of Social Security and medicare. She actually went after them by name. She clearly went after desantis on disney. That was something she clearly was planning, expecting, planning to do. And it may be that this early i mean, i think its later than people think. But this early, she may feel like this was as far as she needs to go. Theyll be on a debate stage, at least most of them, in a couple of months. Listen, this is what i would say. I agree with everyones analysis. She is a very polished and warm and performer. I think she did very, very well in many ways tonight. Its interesting to me, what i came to understand is often times when she says, lets be honest, thats a prelude to a question shes not going to answer. So, lets be honest about abortion. Weve got to find consensus. So, where are you on that law in your state that your successor signed . Would you have well, im not going to answer that . Im going to Say Something frankly untrue about bidens position. And the same was true on the Retirement Age. You know, she took the big swing at the retirement issue. Where should the Retirement Age be . Im not going to tell you. Im an accountant. Ive got to look at the numbers. You know . So, what i see is what i thought, which is going in, which is she has the talent to be very effective on the stump. But she tries to slice the salami too thin sometimes. And in president ial politics, ultimately that catches up with you. You can tell what her path is to what she perceives as the nomination. It is right through ron desantis. She had many times this evening, jake ask specifically questions about donald trump. And she didnt address him specifically. She talked about the issue, never really going after him until later. I asked her campaign, is this intentional . Is this what you plan to do . And they said, there was never a calculated strategy not to go after donald trump. But she just didnt see the opening until later on. And she goes after trump and desantis on entitlement reform. But for her to really hold her powder back on trump and give a real Knockout Punch to desantis in his war on disney using Taxpayer Dollars, that goes to show clearly what her strategy is. And looking at this and speaking with a lot of iowa voters, they want to resonate in some part of what she said with the life issue, given that she is prolife. And her argument that she made to jake in terms of, dont hold my feet to the fire on a six week or seven or eight week abortion ban if youre not going the hold the democrats feet to the fire. In terms of longterm abortion. I know he followed up with a clarification of questions that biden has been asked. But the Pro Life Community in iowa does want to see, if youre going to ask us on this end, you need to ask the democrats on the other end. I think the Second Amendment is a huge issue for iowa voters. I think a lot of people will take pause with her she does not support Red Flag Laws. We have agreed there are some concessions that can be made with regard to gun violence, and Red Flag Laws are an important one. And the fact she did not support that is going to be noted by law enforcement. Democrats do get asked about where they stand. I remember we asked katie hobbs about it when she was running in arizona. Ive never heard biden say that he supports abortion up until birth. No, he does not. Ive never seen him say that. David . Well, you know, a couple of things on trump i know, but i lied to you. On trump, you know, she made a point of saying shes travelled the world and she sees the danger that comes when citizens dont trust the integrity of the election process. That would have been a good place to have a comment or two about the former president of the United States, who did more than any Single Person to foment lack of trust in the election system. And then at another point, i think it was on the trans issue, she said, you know, we dont want a small minority to push their views on the country. Well, 72 of the country support Red Flag Laws, for example. So, you cant have it both ways. You cant say, we dont want a small minority to dictate views and then when the issue turns around, you have a completely different principle. You know, one of the things that i still have a lingering question about tonight, and i think many voters, when you take a step back from a 50,000 foot view is, why is nikki haley running for president of the United States . I dont think she answered that question tonight. But i said at the beginning, she is by far the most talented politician in the country. I still stand by that. Shes very nimble the way she gets in and out of questions, the way she operates on a stage, the way she talks. I love how dana said shes folksy. I just looked over at rob, shes from South Carolina. Thats the skill set that comes with it. Yes. However, you have these fundamental inconsistencies that we continue to talk about. She weaves herself and talks herself into trouble. Whether or not you talk about abortion, where she stands, she signed a 20week abortion ban in South Carolina when she was governor. She talked about exceptions but didnt mention the fact in South Carolina when she signed that bill, there was only one exception made, which was for life of the mother. There was no exception made for rape and incest. You begin to have these conversations about where she stands on january 6th and how she has this fortitude against election denying and joe biden is the president. We dont talk about the fact she campaigned around the country for election deniers. That is a thing nikki haley did. When you begin to peel the layers back, when she gets into cultural discussions, thats when shes most uncomfortable. And you can tell that. When shes talking about Foreign Policy, afghanistan, russia, even i was like damn, shes good. But when she starts talking about trans issues and womens issues of our lifetime, for example, when she says that trans girls in a womens bathroom is the womens issue of our time, all i can think about is the fact that my wife nearly died in child birth. And me and probably audie and addie and many others think the greatest issue during our time is Foreign Policy<\/a>, serious and very substantive on a number of other issues, whether its on entitlements or government spending, even things like guns and the border and china. But i was keeping track. It took her 70 minutes to say the word woke after she was asked a question about it. I thought that was notable too. I think she did not steer the conversation into the territory of things that would get you retweets and likes on social media. And that was a choice. But when she did get to it, she really went for it on those issues of socalled wokeism. Theres a lot to say about that, but those are the things that struck me. There was a moment on that issue, she was talking about trying to personalize it saying that her daughter ran track in school and she couldnt imagine what it would be like for her to be in a locker room with somebody who was born a man. And then questioned whether or not that has an impact on teenage suicide among girls. And then jake pushed back on the other side of that, which is that theres also a high rate of suicide among trans kids. Also a wild thing to say because she had spent much of the conversation talking about Mental Health<\/a> and Mental Health<\/a> statistics. And i think tying those things together the way she did was probably an error, frankly. It was interesting that on the issue of wokeness or culture war issues, she picked very specific lanes. One was this idea of kind of trans exclusionary talk, meaning the Gender Identity<\/a> of trans youth, illegitimate in her eyes. She repeatedly called young people, biological boys, et cetera. So she had a very specific thing she wanted to talk about, and she also went after desantis in the most specific way in terms of line of attack, not just talking about whats going on with disney now, but his past relationship with disney and how hes playing it up as an executive. It was one of the few times she poked at somebody else running in the race. I noted that she said weve gone down that road before, kind of hitting him for hiss confrontational tone with disney. And it was sort of a subtweet at donald trump, basically implying trump without actually saying it. I want to go back to abortion because this is an issue that tripped up republicans in the 2022 midterms. And this is an issue that republican strategists are trying to and activists are trying to work with candidates to try to find the right language, never mind the right policy positions. And she punted it. And she said, im punting, basically. And thats not going to fly with evangelical christians, with the antiabortion movement, which is very powerful still in the Republican Party<\/a>. Theyve been pretty clear. They want candidates who are on that stage, who are running for president on the republican side, to say how many weeks they are willing to support an abortion ban. She refused to say that. She said there was a federal role, but she made point and shes probably right about this. There are not 60 votes for federal bans at probably six weeks. But, you know, jake rightfully pressed her and said, youre a candidate. Youre running for president. What is your position . Where do you stand . She still wouldnt go there. That is going to be an issue for her in this primary because these first of all, evangelical voters are a huge chunk of the Republican Party<\/a> right now. And the leaders of these groups are really pushing for a number. They want to hear a commitment. And she did not give that. Thats all true, and theres so many policy questions and answers to dissect on a whole host of issues. But one thing that really struck me was how folksy she was and how personal she got when she answered a lot of these issues. When she answered about abortion saying, im pro life. And for many reasons, one of them was that i had trouble getting pregnant. And she talked about other issues, whether it was i know shes talked about this before, but on the stage. Whether it was what happened in South Carolina<\/a> and the flag and her personal experience being at that farm stand when her father was discriminated against. Right. There were a lot of points throughout this town hall where she brought that humanity. And thats no small thing. Shes very effective at using her personal biography to make specific points. But it also allows her to dodge certain issues and questions. So, you hear why her sort of thinking you hear her thinking through being a candidate who is against abortion. But then what slides right under that is an attack against the Biden Administration<\/a>, unfairly claiming that their stance is abortion up until birth, when we know that the president has said that they basically support the codification of roe v. Wade, which does allow for abortion restrictions. You cant attack someone on their personal biography, right . Its the same thing she can talk extensively about the effects of racism in her life but always ends by essentially saying its not systemic, that this is just something i went through and everything is fine now because america is a great country. So, i think that theres this kind of onetwo punch, which is, like, heres this part of my biography that some Middle Of The Road<\/a> voters will really kind of find appealing, and heres the more hardline policy that comes along with that. And, you know, it remains notable that every time she talks about the mother emanuel shooting in charleston, she kind of avoids talking about race. When that shooting was carried out by a white supremacist. Or guns. The policy she said tonight was, ending gunfree zones. That means around schools, et cetera. One thing i believe was new or newish was her opposition to a red flag law. She believes they dont work, that the government cannot do them in a proper way. This is a significant part of the Biden Administration<\/a> policy, but its also something that some republicans, especially local law enforcement, have embraced. But shes staking out pretty hardline positions on these issues. That are wrapped in soft biography details. I do think the presentation does matter. It does. Its important when you are on that stage. Theres some choreography to it. Addressing the audience in the room and the audience of people at home and understanding how to use that stage effectively. And im not bringing this up to be superficial about it, but it starts to matter when you see youre going to see a lot of candidates on these stages over the next few months. Some of them are going to be practiced and rehearsed at presenting themselves well, at remembering the lines that theyre supposed to deliver, at delivering them effectively, at pivoting. And just on the blocking and tackling of being on that stage, she really showed, i thought tonight, that she has that particular experience. And itll be a major question for a lot of the other candidates, some of whom have more or less experience on the national stage, whether theyre able to do the same thing. Weve seen this trip up candidates before in the past. And this is what campaigning in iowa looks like. Youve been there. It is that close physically even closer. If she was sitting on a hay bale, that would be the thing, at the iowa state fair. It was very similar, the way she used the stage blocking, as you said, effectively turning her back on jake at some points to address the audience directly. All of that polish is part of her presentation. In part of the lecture, she said, god bless you. I saw that. She was on the role of being on the road and shaking every single hand. And i think you saw some of the effects of that polishing. All right. Well, katelyn, theres a lot to chew on. I know that you have to deal with all of the political experts and people who have actually worked on campaigns in iowa and elsewhere up there in new york. Yeah, including some who worked for haley herself. So well get to the table. Scott, i want to start with you. Before the town hall, you were saying nikki haley is perceived to be this candidate who sometimes tries to have it both ways. You talk about how she has wavered on trump and other issues. Did you get clarity on where she stands on issues. On a few. Some of the stuff she said, i loved. The russia answer, the cleareyed defense of what were doing there and what we have to win, also a cleareyed bashing of evil dictators in the world. I loved the covid stuff. I thought she had clear honesty on entitlement reform. She had a clear and Strong Defense<\/a> on women and girls who she believes and a lot of republicans believe are under attack from trans activists right now. I did not love her assailing of the debt limit deal. She attacked it and turned around and said, we ought to be clawing back the Unspent Covid<\/a> money and getting rid of the irs agents, which the covid deal does. So, thats an example of thats what a politician would do, uninformed recitation of talking points. I didnt hear her go after biden as much as i would have wanted frankly as a conservative. I probably tactically would have gone after desantis earlier and harder than she did. I thought that was coming sooner. I was surprised about that. Bottom line for me, she might be the most polished politician in the race. The trouble is, this primary is taking place in a party that doesnt love polished politicians right now. When shes winding up, she gives a lot of politician pablum before she gets into the substance of it, and people arent into it right now since donald trump came on to the scene. You worked in the trump white house. What is your sense how she did . She came to the table astute, prepared, and substantive on policy. My fear is thats not necessarily what republican Primary Voters<\/a> want right now. She was incredibly effective in when she was getting into entitlement spending. She sounded like a candidate frankly from eight to ten years ago, when we were fiscal conservatives, when dedid stand with our allies abroad. But she articulated it better than most. And i think the case she needs to continue to make is on day one, i have the experience as a governor and former u. N. Ambassador to deal with world issues. When shes talking Foreign Policy<\/a>, she could go toe to toe with the president of the United States<\/a> right now. That is her greatest strength. I do think that for somebody who is kind of running on the im the compassionate conservative in the race, which i think is deeply, deeply needed, shes got to have i think a more filled out position on the trans issue. I say that because the Trans Community<\/a> is a minority within a minority. I know it is very animating to talk about these issues in a republican community. But be that unifier, sit down with trans actiactivists, trans Mental Health<\/a> expert, female athletes that feel theyve been disadvantaged, and try dom up with a solution. Youve listened to her. How should she handle trump . How should she handle desantis . She wasnt naming them by name. She was critical of trump meeting with kim jongun. What was your sense of how she handled her top two rivals right now. She did get to it late on the issue of Social Security<\/a> and medicare. She actually went after them by name. She clearly went after desantis on disney. That was something she clearly was planning, expecting, planning to do. And it may be that this early i mean, i think its later than people think. But this early, she may feel like this was as far as she needs to go. Theyll be on a debate stage, at least most of them, in a couple of months. Listen, this is what i would say. I agree with everyones analysis. She is a very polished and warm and performer. I think she did very, very well in many ways tonight. Its interesting to me, what i came to understand is often times when she says, lets be honest, thats a prelude to a question shes not going to answer. So, lets be honest about abortion. Weve got to find consensus. So, where are you on that law in your state that your successor signed . Would you have well, im not going to answer that . Im going to Say Something<\/a> frankly untrue about bidens position. And the same was true on the Retirement Age<\/a>. You know, she took the big swing at the retirement issue. Where should the Retirement Age<\/a> be . Im not going to tell you. Im an accountant. Ive got to look at the numbers. You know . So, what i see is what i thought, which is going in, which is she has the talent to be very effective on the stump. But she tries to slice the salami too thin sometimes. And in president ial politics, ultimately that catches up with you. You can tell what her path is to what she perceives as the nomination. It is right through ron desantis. She had many times this evening, jake ask specifically questions about donald trump. And she didnt address him specifically. She talked about the issue, never really going after him until later. I asked her campaign, is this intentional . Is this what you plan to do . And they said, there was never a calculated strategy not to go after donald trump. But she just didnt see the opening until later on. And she goes after trump and desantis on entitlement reform. But for her to really hold her powder back on trump and give a real Knockout Punch<\/a> to desantis in his war on disney using Taxpayer Dollars<\/a>, that goes to show clearly what her strategy is. And looking at this and speaking with a lot of iowa voters, they want to resonate in some part of what she said with the life issue, given that she is prolife. And her argument that she made to jake in terms of, dont hold my feet to the fire on a six week or seven or eight week abortion ban if youre not going the hold the democrats feet to the fire. In terms of longterm abortion. I know he followed up with a clarification of questions that biden has been asked. But the Pro Life Community<\/a> in iowa does want to see, if youre going to ask us on this end, you need to ask the democrats on the other end. I think the Second Amendment<\/a> is a huge issue for iowa voters. I think a lot of people will take pause with her she does not support Red Flag Laws<\/a>. We have agreed there are some concessions that can be made with regard to gun violence, and Red Flag Laws<\/a> are an important one. And the fact she did not support that is going to be noted by law enforcement. Democrats do get asked about where they stand. I remember we asked katie hobbs about it when she was running in arizona. Ive never heard biden say that he supports abortion up until birth. No, he does not. Ive never seen him say that. David . Well, you know, a couple of things on trump i know, but i lied to you. On trump, you know, she made a point of saying shes travelled the world and she sees the danger that comes when citizens dont trust the integrity of the election process. That would have been a good place to have a comment or two about the former president of the United States<\/a>, who did more than any Single Person<\/a> to foment lack of trust in the election system. And then at another point, i think it was on the trans issue, she said, you know, we dont want a small minority to push their views on the country. Well, 72 of the country support Red Flag Laws<\/a>, for example. So, you cant have it both ways. You cant say, we dont want a small minority to dictate views and then when the issue turns around, you have a completely different principle. You know, one of the things that i still have a lingering question about tonight, and i think many voters, when you take a step back from a 50,000 foot view is, why is nikki haley running for president of the United States<\/a> . I dont think she answered that question tonight. But i said at the beginning, she is by far the most talented politician in the country. I still stand by that. Shes very nimble the way she gets in and out of questions, the way she operates on a stage, the way she talks. I love how dana said shes folksy. I just looked over at rob, shes from South Carolina<\/a>. Thats the skill set that comes with it. Yes. However, you have these fundamental inconsistencies that we continue to talk about. She weaves herself and talks herself into trouble. Whether or not you talk about abortion, where she stands, she signed a 20week abortion ban in South Carolina<\/a> when she was governor. She talked about exceptions but didnt mention the fact in South Carolina<\/a> when she signed that bill, there was only one exception made, which was for life of the mother. There was no exception made for rape and incest. You begin to have these conversations about where she stands on january 6th and how she has this fortitude against election denying and joe biden is the president. We dont talk about the fact she campaigned around the country for election deniers. That is a thing nikki haley did. When you begin to peel the layers back, when she gets into cultural discussions, thats when shes most uncomfortable. And you can tell that. When shes talking about Foreign Policy<\/a>, afghanistan, russia, even i was like damn, shes good. But when she starts talking about trans issues and womens issues of our lifetime, for example, when she says that trans girls in a womens bathroom is the womens issue of our time, all i can think about is the fact that my wife nearly died in child birth. And me and probably audie and addie and many others think the greatest issue during our time is African American<\/a> women die in child birth three times more than white women. Or in South Carolina<\/a>, her own state, thousands of women do not have access to obgyns. When you have these cultural conversations and match them against her record, thats when nikki haley starts to look a little funny in the light. Shes very, very skilled. Shes going to be dangerous on a debate stage. And if she does not like you im talking to you, ron desantis she will eat your lunch. Please be prepared. Shes a bad ass woman, and she going to be a legitimate candidate. I just dont think she has a lane and did not answer the question of why shes running for president. Yeah. You worked for her when she was governor. You also worked for mcmaster, her successor. What did you think . I thought a couple of things here. One, in terms of style and in terms of tone and in terms of the way she held herself, she did extraordinarily well. If were comparing it to the town hall of the former president from last week, were talking about quite a different tone. A High Energy Event<\/a> tonight versus a low energy event a High Energy Event<\/a> tonight versus a low energy event the other night. Lets not forget she checks a number of conservative boxes. She talked a lot about the fiscal issues that we talked about, both the republicans and democrats are responsible for out of control spending, for debts and deficits in washington. And those are important conversations that need to be had and things she talked about what she was governor. Some of the things that i hope she continues to talk about in iowa and New Hampshire<\/a> and South Carolina<\/a> are the accomplishments that she had as governor. The accomplishments she had as ambassador, and i think shell continue to do that because as you saw tonight and as people have seen in the more than two dozen events shes done in iowa, shes good. Shes tailor made for these early primary states where voters and caucusgoers demand to meet face to face and talk eye to eye with these candidates about the issues that they care about, whether it was running against the longestserving Incumbent House Member<\/a> in South Carolina<\/a> when she did that and upset him in 2004, whether she upset a field of heavily favored gubernatorial candidates in 2010, she is good when shes running behind, and shes good when she has the chance to personally connect with people. And thats what these early primary states are about. But given you worked for her as governor and you also worked for mcmaster, bakari mentioned she signed that 20week abortion ban, saying that was what she felt like she could get passed at the time. Obviously he just signed into law that sixweek ban. What did you make of the fact that she didnt offer a specific on how many weeks into pregnancy she would ban abortions . I think while the clock is ticking on this race, as david talked about, theres plenty of time for candidates, including Governor Haley<\/a>, including a number of them, to continue to flesh out issues. Shes going to have to continue to flesh out this issue along with a couple of other ones that weve talked about over the course of the evening. So i expect that iowa caucusgoers, New Hampshire<\/a> voters are going to try to pin her down on that. Shes going to be responsible for answering it. I do just want to say really quickly, i think it was incredibly significant the nuanced answer they gave on abortion. Love it or hate it, that was probably the most laying out the facts and reality of what doing Abortion Policy<\/a> at a federal level requires. And i worked in the house wherever year on the anniversary of roe, we would send a 20week the pain capable Abortion Ban Bill<\/a> to the senate. That doesnt have 60 votes. There is not in the votes in the senate for a 20week abortion ban. So im not sure if you actually break through to the public and explain, i thought her take was very reasonable, which is i dont need to put an artificial date on it. Im willing to sign what can get through our democratic also just really quickly, one of the central elements of and this has kind of been sizzling in my spirit as we say c colloquially. I felt it over here. Thank you. One of the major elements of the nikki haley story is charleston. Its more nuanced than people give it credit for or give her credit for. I want to say two things. One, nikki haley did not take down the Confederate Flag<\/a>. That bothers me when she alludes to it or people state that because thats incorrect. Nine people died so that the Confederate Flag<\/a> could come down, and i dont want that to get lost. And nine people died because of racism. That is something that bothers me when Nikki Haley Says<\/a> the National Media<\/a> came in and made it about race. No, dylann roof made it about race when he went in and shot nine people in mother emanuel ame. So we have to remember that. But there also has to be some credit given to a white governor from the deep south being able to go to nine funerals, because i saw the exhaustion on her face, being a leader during that time and being able to bridge people together. And im not sure why nikki haley wont tell the full story. This was an issue about race. This was an issue about race that required leadership at the time. She was the governor. She stepped up at the time and did something that was very valuable. She didnt take it down. The blood of nine people took it down. But the fact that shes not able to bridge that gap, and tim doesnt do it either, where we have an issue about systemic racism or race in this country, thats in my spirit. I would like to actually. I feel you on also she is the first woman of color that is running in this, i should note. I would like to say as someone who traveled with her to charleston in the wake of that shooting that the governor has always told the full story of the flag. And i have never heard her try to take credit for bringing the flag down. I think that all of us can agree its distasteful to try to claim credit or give credit to anyone besides the nine innocent souls who lost their lives in bible study. The best of us. Now, what she did do is demonstrate leadership at a critical time in the state, in the immediate aftermath of the walter scott shooting, which a lot of people dont remember or they paper over. Same summer. No question. They passed a significant Body Cam Bill<\/a> in South Carolina<\/a>. What she did was she gave a lot of her colleagues and policymakers in the state, who had never acted over the course of time on this issue of removing the flag from the Statehouse Grounds<\/a> she gave them cover to do so, and thats leadership. And leadership is oftentimes brought about and defined by its also calling its calling a thing a thing, and thats my only point. Go ahead. Youve been itching. Go ahead. And i dont think shes hesitated to call it racism. Heres her problem, besides whatever inclination she has to parse things too much. You say shes a compassionate conservative. She cant call herself that because that is not where the Republican Party<\/a> is today. And so she doesnt go there, and tim scott doesnt go there because the party is not there. That is not where the energy in the Republican Party<\/a> is right now. Well, i think its what shes trying to do. No, but thats when she gets to sort of tap dancing. If i can just say, im feeling it over here now. Its the spirit on this side over here. I think its important to not get back to what has happened so many times. You cant paint the entire Republican Party<\/a> as not compassionate conservatives. Republicans, a large swath of Primary Voters<\/a>, are compassionate conservatives. Yes, donald trump has hijacked the party. Yes, maga republicans are very vocal, and he has the largest chunk. But to say there are not compassionate i have a lot of republican friends, okay, some of them on this stage here. Im not denigrating all republicans. I will tell you that threequarters of the republican vote right now are going to donald trump and a guy whos trying to be donald trump, okay . Thats not compassionate conservatism, and thats where they think the Republican Party<\/a> is right now, and that is a problem for a candidate whose mindset is not there. All right. Were going to leave it there. We have to get in a quick break. Well continue that conversation, everyone. Obviously well be right back. Were breaking down everything from our town hall with nikki haley including a fact check coming up with daniel dale right after this. How far we take an idea is a question of willpower. Because progress. Is a matter of character. I brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. Uh. Here ill take that. Everyone woo hoo ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. Enter the nourishing Moments Giveaway<\/a> for a chance to win 10,000. Voltaren. The joy of movement. Introducing new. Black angus steakburgers, the Bourbon Bacon Jam<\/a> and jalapeno kick topped with a fourcheese crisp. Try all six ultimate steakburger combos served with fries and a drink, starting at 9. Download the app and earn double rewards on steakburgers for a limited time. Heres how tommy lost 30 lbs on noom weight. Im tom. Noom helped him use psychology to lose weight. The mindful aspect made me feel more conscious about what i was eating and why i was eating it. Its actually working. Lose weight and make it last with noom weight. Welcome back to our continuing coverage of tonights cnn town hall with nikki haley. Im Kaitlan Collins<\/a> along with dana bash. Haley is among the growing field of republican president ial hopefuls. Tonight she fielded a slew of questions from voters that she hopes will put her in the white house, including a question on one of the most divisive subjects in america right now, abortion. Heres what the only woman to enter the republican primary so far said when she was asked to share her plans for Abortion Policy<\/a>. I am unapologetically prolife. Having said that, i dont judge anyone for being prochoice any more than i want them to judge me for being prolife. The question that everybody is talking about is, is there a federal role for this . And i think that there is a federal role for this. But if were going to do that, you have to be honest with the American People<\/a> of what it takes to do that. I think we can all agree on banning lateterm abortions. I think we can all agree on encouraging adoptions and making sure those Foster Kids Feel<\/a> more love, not less. I think we can agree on doctors and nurses who dont believe in abortions shouldnt have to perform them. Cant we start there . The former South Carolina<\/a> governor recently endorsed a federal abortion ban but also said she didnt think it would be realistic to get one passed. Tonight she declined to say if she would sign a sixweek abortion ban if it came to her desk. Dana, she also tap danced a bit around the subject of her former boss, former President Trump<\/a>, of course, who is now her rival for the republican nomination. She did not go all in on any attack whenever his name came up and instead said this. After january 6th, you said this about him. Quote, we need to acknowledge he let us down. He went down a path he shouldnt have, and we shouldnt have followed him, and we shouldnt have listened to him, and we cant let that ever happen again, end quote. Do you still feel that way . Yes. He thinks it was a beautiful day. I think it was a terrible day. Ill always stand by that. She did also say that she did not believe trump or Florida Governor<\/a> ron desantis were being honest with the American People<\/a> when it came to the subject of entitlements. She even went as far as to say both of them were lying about not having to deal with that reform. And of course Big Questions<\/a> on what she wants the age on Social Security<\/a> to go to when she was saying it should be someone in their 20s, they should change that age. She did not get into the specifics on that. She didnt get into the specifics, but she did say the Retirement Age<\/a> should be raised, which is noteworthy. I want to talk about that and so much more with our own jeff zeleny, who is inside the auditorium at the Grandview University<\/a> in des moines. So, jeff, what was it like in the room . Reporter well, it is clear that republicans are enthusiastic and they are eager to look for options as they try to win back the white house. And the voters here tonight are the activists of activists. They are business owners. They are party officials. Talking to a few of them as they left and watching them as they were watching her, they walked away largely impressed by what seemed to be an Honesty Streak<\/a> in the words of one voter. Really saying shes going to call it straight with the American People<\/a>, on abortion in particular. That did not necessarily please everyone in the room. We will see how that plays out, particularly among some evangelical voters. But it was clear she had a broader audience in mind. I think most significant was how she was unafraid, in fact very willing to go after Florida Governor<\/a> ron desantis. She is clearly trying to hold off some Republican Voters<\/a> for signing on with him or getting on board with him as he shapes up his candidacy here. I think it was very clear tonight that she has been doing this for a long time. Shes been traveling across iowa and New Hampshire<\/a>, South Carolina<\/a>, Holding Meetings<\/a> exactly like this. Theyre not on television of course, but shes been taking questions from voters. So she was very practiced, very skilled. Some liked her sense of humor. Some liked the fact that she was completely willing to talk about ukraine, to talk about americas role in the world. Im not sure if she won over many converts here tonight. As i was talking to voters as they were walking away, they liked what they heard in terms of her honesty, and they liked her strength. And i think her humor at the end, shes like, im in this to win it. Im not playing second fiddle. I think tonight she did herself a lot of good with republicans voters here. But, again the lack of specifics can be perhaps fine in june. As the Campaign Goes<\/a> on, that becomes more of a challenge to fill in those blanks when shes pressed by voters. At this point in the race, jeff, its about getting the iowa people, the iowa voters, those who are going to go to the caucuses, to just keep their mind open to someone like her. Thank you so much, jeff. And, kaitlan, that is something that according to jeff, just being in the room, she was successful at there. Again, it is early, and again, there are a whole lot of other candidates getting into the race even this coming week. Yeah, three more this week. So were going to see that field continue to grow. Iowa voters are very well informed and want to know specifics on all of those topics, the big topics in the republican race. Dana, i want to bring in cnns daniel dale. He is here to factcheck some of what we heard tonight, including nikki haleys comments on crime. This is what she said. We dont want to take away the constitutional right for someone to protect and defend their families in america. And when youve got crime at alltime highs, youve got Illegal Immigrants<\/a> crossing the border, youve got Mental Health<\/a> crisis as much as it is, the last thing im going to do is take away the ability for someone to protect themselves and their families. Daniel, i know you have been looking into this, checking her comments. What do the facts say about this . Kaitlan, Governor Haley<\/a>s claim that crime is at an alltime high is not accurate. Crime has fallen steadily with a few short upticks over the last three decades. If you do a graph, youd see a steep line downward from those early 90s and then a recent flattening out with some ups and downs. We do not have precise numbers for the present day or even last year. Crime data takes time to come in. But every expert on this subject will tell you that were not even close to the numbers of the bad old days of three decades ago. The countrys Violent Crime<\/a> rate in 1992, for example, was 758 per 100,000 people. In 2020, it was under 400 Violent Crime<\/a>s per 100,000 people. 2021 data is a bit dicey but looks roughly similar. During the town hall, i texted with a Crime Analyst<\/a> named jeff asher and he confirmed crime has fallen steadily over the last few decades. He said, quote, the nation did experience a historically large increase in murder in 2020. I, daniel, will note that was under President Trump<\/a>. And he continued, and another small rise in 2021. That said, the nations murder rate in 2021 was nowhere near an alltime high as it was 30 lower than it was in 1991. Additionally, murder likely fell nationally in 2022 and preliminary data from big cities is indicative of a possible large decrease in murder occurring nationally in 2023, albeit still above 2019 levels. So, kaitlan, Governor Haley<\/a>s claim isnt close to true in general or with regard to murder. Thats the crime for which we have the most reliable stats. I should also note this wasnt a onetime clip. She also made this false claim at an Iowa Campaign<\/a> event yesterday. That is why we keep you around, daniel dale. Thank you for that. Dana, of course questions about not just what she said on crime but also abortion and the other many topics they talked about, of course her comments about abortion and where President Biden<\/a> and Vice President<\/a> harris stand when it comes to where she was declining to say where she stands on how many weeks of a ban she would sign into law. Yeah. A lot more that were going to hear likely from daniel dale. Thats one of the reasons we keep him around. There are many. There are many. Thanks. David chalian is joining the table. We havent gotten your thoughts, your very important, big thoughts. Well, i think her being in this race for four months already was on display tonight. I think theres a lot of musculature work that goes on on the Campaign Trail<\/a> for these candidates, and shes been at this the Longest Minus<\/a> donald trump. I think we saw that tonight. For some candidates who have just gotten into this race, who arent quite ready maybe to do a town hall like this on national, international television, you see why, because you learn as you go as a candidate from the voters, the questions that are on their minds, and you sort of work out your lines. I will say also she obviously has the experience of a governor and u. S. Ambassador to the u. N. I thought she was maybe at her strongest in the Foreign Policy<\/a> section. I think when she was talking about the war in ukraine, when she was talking about china, when she was talking about kim jongun, yes, she wasnt calling donald trump out by name necessarily, but i think she was making her strongest stand of looking for a path of differentiation and delineation from the two leading candidates in the race. Which is kind of ironic. Because she was trumps, like, Foreign Policy<\/a> voice, kind of foremost Foreign Policy<\/a> voice. Weve been saying the same thing at the same time, which i like. Thank you. Go ahead. I was just going to say where she wants to draw the line naturally doesnt come so naturally because of the time she spent in the trump administration, doing the things she was on the international stage. I also want to point out one other thing on abortion. Were focused on how many weeks, that kind of question about where she stands on a potential federal ban. The thing that drew my ear is when she said that people dont want to see women basically imprisoned or getting the Death Penalty<\/a> for abortions, and shes getting at this idea of overreach in the places where they are trying to create Enforcement Mechanisms<\/a> or fetal personhood laws, that sort of thing, and trying to say, look, you can go too far with this, and i dont want to go that far. Its just one of the many instances where it just feels like there is a policy or two she feels has appeal to centrists, and shes going to just kind of underscore those. I know theres a lot of conversation about her not being pinned down on a specific on the abortion issue, but i thought it was so clear. Its like one area where she seems to have the General Election<\/a> next november in her mind much more than just the quest for the republican nomination or the evangelical base in iowa. It kind of reminded me if you remember in the democratic race four years ago when some of them would be asked about universal health care or not the Bernie Sanders<\/a> proposal, medicaid for all, and they were trying to preserve some space for themselves to get to a different place in a General Election<\/a> context. My takeaway from watching her is thats what shes trying to do on this issue of abortion. I think that is very true. Shes trying to preserve her options for down the road. However, i do think what makes this Election Cycle<\/a> very different on abortion is that now we have these are not theoretical discussions anymore. This isnt just about messaging. This is about laws. Thats whats going to make this idea of lets all just listen to each other insufficient. I think its necessary, but its not sufficient to get her through a General Election<\/a> on this issue. She is going to have to answer that question about at what point, and when jake asked about not just the weeks but about the circumstances, the stories that you hear about women who are carrying unviable fetuses maybe in their 38th week and, due to these abortion laws, have to carry a fetus that is not viable for weeks in their bodies without getting medical care, those are real, practical scenarios that shes not she and all the other candidates, theyre not going to be able to avoid. That is happening because roe v. Wade is not on the table anymore. Its just not hypothetical anymore. Its not, no. Very much not. Lets switch gears and talk about january 6th because that was very, very notable how when jake pressed her more than once on the idea of election lies, not about voter integrity, not about what happened in different states, but specifically about the steady diet of real lies that came from washington, from the then white house about what happened in the 2020 election. And she had a very specific line that she was going to use, which is that she said it was the worst day, not the best day, and she wasnt going to go anywhere near anything else. Yeah, it was because she used the line multiple times. Multiple times. She had said donald trump calls it a great day, and i think it was a terrible day or a sad day and would never think otherwise. And when pressed, she repeated that line. Weve seen out on the trail where she she doesnt want to engage on the Conspiracy Theories<\/a> piece of it and all of the debunked claims around the election. She starts zeroing in on some states changed their Election Laws<\/a> mmhmm. In the midst of an unprecedented pandemic to make sure that an election can come off and people had access to vote. That is true. States did change their laws, states that joe biden won, states that donald trump won. Right. Changed some of their laws. She uses that as a way to sort of, i feel, sidle up and say, hey, i can use the Election Integrity<\/a> line here and not offend those who are enthralled with donald trump and the Maga Movement<\/a> and committed to the election lies without subscribing myself to the election lies. To your point, abby, if indeed shes the nominee and if this progresses, it seems to me shes going to be pressed to take a much firmer stand when it comes to the integrity of elections and accepting Election Results<\/a> and whether or not theres a place for any kind of lies about the 2020 election. But it also puts into question maybe it puts into focus actually where she thinks she needs to play in order to get the most votes. And it isnt against donald trump right now. Its against ron desantis and the other people running against donald trump because there are others who argue the only way to really topple donald trump is to really take him on. And the only way youre going to be the nominee is if you take on the frontrunner. Shes not there right now. She knows its early, so i do want to say that. I think she knows anyone who knows watching whats happened with donald trump is theres no incentive to take him on. Theres no winning there, and delaying that as long as possible is something that you can choose to do in this case, which shes doing. Ron desantis merely ran out of time, right . He felt like he had to start addressing it. One piece of context about this is people may not remember that in 2016, nikki haley gave the gop rebuttal to president Barack Obamas<\/a> state of the union address. And it was kind of a literal end of an era, and i think what she and others in the party thought would be the start of another era, right, an era that was your marco rubios, your tim scotts, and your nikki hailies, and theres a little bit of a girl interrupted vibe because what she would have been is not what she is now, right . Now that shes been put through this sort of trump cabinet, republican policy blender, youre coming out of those years, and the party is so different. So what does nikki haley have to do . What can she retain from the old nikki haley, and what can she use now, right, to both prove that she is not, you know, misleading people, that her polish isnt something to be ignored or dismissed, and at the same time still appeal to those very same voters that shes coming back for because that kind of, in a way, was one of the many things that launched her political star. And the partys just different now. Im just picturing being sorry, abby. Just being in South Carolina<\/a> in 2016 when she endorsed marco rubio and having and watching them on the stage with tim scott making that argument. They traveled in a bus together, yeah. It was the whole generational argument. Which shes now making but in a very different context. I do think i saw a lot of the old nikki haley on that stage today, actually in a way that was somewhat surprising because she knows actually how to speak the kind of maga language when she wants to, and she chose not to at a lot of opportunities, at a lot of junctures tonight. She really did lean on it was a lot of policy, but she took a little South Carolina<\/a> folksiness and made it more accessible. I do believe that was a real choice tonight. I think she could have done more to appeal to a maga base and chose not to, and maybe it has to do with what some republicans in iowa are saying, which is that maybe theres an underappreciated degree to which many Iowa Republicans<\/a> right now are not looking for the trumpiest person in the field. And nikki haley may be making a bet that if she presents a policy in a way thats more digestible and she leans into a little bit of the old kind of george w. Bush Republican Party<\/a>, the oldish nikki haley, who understands the maga base, that that might be a little bit of a different lane. I mean its certainly different from ron desantis, and its certainly different from some of the other candidates like the Chris Christie<\/a>s, who well see this week, and maybe even mike pence, who this weekend kind of debuted this almost strident, you know, kind of argument that really is about an antitrump approach to politics. She might be trying to carve out a slightly different lane here. Yeah, she is. As you said at the beginning just now, shes going back to the nikki haley who became a member of the South Carolina<\/a> legislature and then, of course, governor, and, kaitlan, that is the kind of politician i mean bakari was making fun of me for using the word folksy because that what they do in South Carolina<\/a>, but its not necessarily what they see in iowa or other places in the country. He meant that in good fact, faith, he told me during the break. David mentioned one of those moments that i do want to replay from the town hall. Nikki haley was being asked about her former boss, who of course as you all noted, she did work for him as his u. S. Ambassador to the United Nations<\/a>. In recent days, he has congratulated the north korean dictator after they got an appointment to a board on the world health organization. This is what she said about that. Kim jongun is a thug, and if you see what he has done to his own people in north korea, when money went to north korea, it didnt go to feed their people. It went to feed their nuclear program. I dont think we ever should congratulate dictators. Congratulate our friends. Dont congratulate our enemies. It emboldens them when we do that. My panel is back here with me. Alyssa, you worked at the pentagon during the trump administration. I wonder what you made of that because, of course, she was serving in that role when trump was talking so glowingly about sitting down with kim jongun, of course his first time meeting with him was that summer of 2018. What do you make of her most direct criticism tonight to her former boss . So nikki haley has tremendous moral clarity when it comes to Foreign Policy<\/a>. If there is a lane that she knows and shes unequivocal on, its the role of the u. S. In the world, how we interact with our adversaries and our allies. In the trump administration, at times she would go a bit further on the United Nations<\/a> than the white house actually wanted her to. We would then have to tell her to reel it back in, youre freelancing, youre going too far. Shes somebody who very much has staked what her position is when it comes to National Defense<\/a> and Foreign Policy<\/a>, and she wasnt going to waffle there. Its on more of the Domestic Policy Front<\/a> that i think shes trying to toe the line of keeping trump voters in line and trying to get some of their support, that you see her waffling a bit. Thats when she tends to not be as strong. But Foreign Policy<\/a>, she nails it. I remember that moment when Rex Tillerson<\/a> was secretary of state, and he said she was confused about russian sanctions, and she said, i dont get confused. It was quite a moment inside the walls of the west wing. Scott, her position on ukraine, is that in line with what Republican Voters<\/a> want . Well, i think its in line with what Republican Voters<\/a> need to hear, and i wish more people would make such a cleareyed defense of what were doing there and why its important for the world. There is a segment of Republican Voters<\/a> because of a rising isolationism in our country that think we should just pull out. Its unfortunate because i think it exists on the right and the left candidly, and Neither Party<\/a> has a monopoly on it. I think haley on domestic issues, on all issues tonight, i think the issue with her is not about making policy because im not sure voters want you to do that. I think they want you to make war. Its a vibe check. Republicans feel surrounded. They feel surrounded, and they perceive cultural rot in almost every institution, universities, media, corporations, politics, government, and getting a lecture about a Clinical Study<\/a> on this policy or that policy, the Real Question<\/a> is were surrounded, and will you fight for it . Will you scratch and claw our way out of this being surrounded . Thats what shes trying to solve for. Thats what trump solved for. He is a blow it all up kind of guy, and i think thats where shes still got some room to grow, and i think thats why desantis is in a solid second. Thats also where shes going to excel. I think youre right. I think shes going to excel when she gets the moment, if she takes that moment on the debate stage with ron desantis and donald trump if he ever shows up. If he listens to davids advice, he will not. But on the issue of Foreign Policy<\/a> because it actually hearkens back to a day of george bush. She sounds like lindsey graham. Its that hawkish type of oldstyle conservatism that the Republican Party<\/a> is moving away of. I dont want to preach to republicans about what your Foreign Policy<\/a> is, but thats just not the Foreign Policy<\/a> of its an american first ideal today. What she displayed on the stage tonight on that issue, she was crisp. She didnt waffle. And i made a mistake earlier. I called her a white governor. I should say shes a governor of color. But she stood there in that space and owned it. I think if shes willing to take those shots and discern and make that distinction with donald trump and ron desantis, but she has to be willing to throw that punch because you all are looking for fighters, and she has to be willing to fight. I think thats the only ground she can fight on. The question is if youre fighting, are you fighting for something that most of the people want to hear . Thats ultimately the debate were going to have. Also fighting for what you believe. I think thats a big question here because i think she does come from a different tradition of republicanism than the one youre describing, and you could see her tonight kind of signifying with her position on the trans issue and against Red Flag Laws<\/a> and some other in other places, she was trying to signify to the base, you know, im one of you. I get you. Then in other places, she felt uncomfortable doing it. Ill tell you something about this process, having been through it a few times. It gets harder the better you do. This was a first test, and i think she did very, very well. The bar constantly gets lifted, and people start drilling down on your answers, and the things that worked tonight for her will not work a month or two months from now or on a debate stage. So shes got to decide where shes going to plant her feet even if at times it means saying, no, i dont think six weeks is appropriate or, no, i dont you know, i dont think you win this by trying to finesse your way through the process. I dont think thats going to work. One of the things she did i think that came from being out on the Campaign Trail<\/a> is taking Big Policy Issues<\/a> and making them relatable. She took ukraine. Theres been a lot of conversation about should we have continued support for ukraine . A lot of people say there needs to be certainly more transparency. She took the policy issue and made it personal in terms of this is about freedom. This is about freedom in the world, and if russia succeeds here, it will continue to grow. I just want to remind people what she said on ukraine because i want to hear your take on it, but i also want people to remember what it is she said at the beginning of that town hall tonight. This is bigger than ukraine. This is a war about freedom, and its one we have to win. You look at those ukrainians, and what did they do . When russia invaded their freedoms, they moved in there, went to the front lines, and fought for their country. The women said, were not going to stay back. They made Molotov Cocktails<\/a> to defend their country. Everybody gave them five days to survive. But, yet, their passion and their will pushed them forward. What we have to understand is a win for ukraine is a win for all of us. And thats important. A lot of people look at the millions and billions of dollars that are being allocated for ukraine, and when you put it on a personal level like that, its impactful. Two other areas where she was able to do this, when the question was about the economy and what are you going to do to improve the economy and help Small Business<\/a> owners . A Small Business<\/a> owner asked the question. She said, look, while the numbers might look good and the Biden Administration<\/a> is praising the numbers and the unemployment rate, it still affects Small Business<\/a> owners. You feel it. So she understands shes able to connect with them because shes been out there on the Campaign Trail<\/a>. And one other issue on the crime. We had the fact check on the Crime Numbers<\/a> arent as serious as she says. But shes been speaking with people, and if they say that Public Safety<\/a> is a concern to them, then it is an important issue regardless of what the stats say. If people say Public Safety<\/a> is a concern, then thats something that should be addressed. The perception on that. Yeah, youre right. She was the first one to get into the race to challenge trump. Of course shes far from the last. Were expecting three others to get into the race this week. Tim scott, who is also from South Carolina<\/a>, is already in the race. Do you think did she distinguish herself from the mike pences, from the tim scotts, from the other candidates that shes running on the same tier as . I think shes distinguished herself from Vice President<\/a> pence and from governor christie and some of the other candidates just in terms of her style, her ability to connect, her authenticity, her energy, and the generational argument that she makes. Both she and tim scott are exceptional points of pride for the people of South Carolina<\/a>. Theyre not running campaigns where theyre in need of attacking each other. Theyre running campaigns where their opponent is donald trump. And so i think that you have to distinguish among these candidates not necessarily by tiers but by the campaigns theyre running, the issues theyre talking about, and really the energy they have and the Staying Power<\/a> that they have when youre starting to talk about money, when youre starting to talk about Donor Viability<\/a> and stuff like that. I think the larger point that nikki has to contend with is simply this. Like if you want if you want the antithesis to donald trump, will a republican voter say its nikki haley . If you want Something Like<\/a> donald trump without the baggage, will the Republican Voters<\/a> say its nikki haley . I think the answer to that im not sure she answered that that its me. I think if you want donald trump light, it looks like its ron desantis. If you want a tried and true conservative, its mike pence or tim scott. Im just not sure that she answered the question of why me, why now . But the one thing i do think that she did that may stand out from this is, again, with Vice President<\/a> pence getting in the race, with tim scott in the race, as the only woman in the race, she offered the most nuanced answer on abortion. Shes going to be running against all male candidates who are running in a lane that is much more restrictive on Abortion Access<\/a> than what she laid out. I think she was playing to a General Election<\/a> audience. I think she was very aware she was on cnn and voters who havent heard from her are hearing from her for the first time. But that is a differentiator that i think will be remembered. Of course thats been the big question were people like Governor Desantis<\/a>, who signed that sixweek abortion ban into law. Does it hurt him in the general if he makes it there . Well see. Everyone stand by. Were continuing to break down the town hall with nikki haley. When were back, she reveals what she says was the hardest time of her life and how she handled it. Plus, when should americans retire . Thats a big question. Nikki haley now suggesting a bold change. This is cnns continuing special coverage. Tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. That can be analyzed by ai in real time. So researchers can identify which areas are at risk. And help life underwater flourish. [ applause ] the day you get your clearchoice dental implants changes your struggle with missing teeth forever. It changes how you eat, how you feel, and how you enjoy life. It changes your smile and how others smile at you. Clearchoice Network Doctors<\/a> have changed over 100,000 lives with dental implants, and they can change yours, too. Because a clearchoice day changes every day. Schedule a free consultation. Introducing new. 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A paradise for parents. Lomita feed, current caretaker and owner. We did not know anything about the Employee Retention<\/a> credit. That is a legitimate tax credit. So Innovation Refunds<\/a> has really helped guide me through the process. Just had to get a few of my records together, submit that, and they made it as painless as possible. I cant thank Innovation Refunds<\/a> enough for what they did. Here you have desantis, who accepted 50,000 in political contributions from disney. He went and put their executives and their lobbyists on prominent boards throughout florida. And he went and basically gave the highest corporate subsidies in florida history to disney. But because they went and criticized him, now hes going to spend Taxpayer Dollars<\/a> on a lawsuit. Its just like all this vendetta stuff, weve been down that road. Again, we cant go down that. Businesses were my partners in South Carolina<\/a>. We didnt always get along, and i you know, luckily South Carolina<\/a> is very antiwoke. But when you have a company like that, dont bring the citizens Taxpayer Dollars<\/a> into it. Pick up the phone. Deal with it. Settle it the way you should. And i just think hes being hypocritical in this. That is nikki haley at tonights town hall, criticizing Florida Governor<\/a> ron desantis, saying he is hypocritical when it comes to his past ties to disney now that he is in an ongoing feud with the company. Back at my table with the panel here. Of course, scott, this is something that is coming up to every republican president ial candidate. It was one of her most direct shots at desantis. A little bit i think with reference to trump there, talking about all this vendetta stuff. What did you make of her comments there . I dont understand the attack. Shes saying he took money from disney, and now hes attacking disney. Wouldnt the real attack be that if he took money from disney and then went easy on them . I mean in my opinion, to take money, which by the way he raises hundreds of millions of dollars, so lots of people have donated to desantis. The real attack would be if he didnt do anything. Im not certain she understands the cultural vibe and the reason desantis is going after disney. It doesnt have anything to do with being critical of him. It has everything to do with what i said earlier, the perception that there is a cultural rot being driven by these corporations. Desantis is trying to signal to republicans that, look, trump gets distracted. Hes easily distracted by the next shiny object. I will never get distracted from these people. I will fight it and root it out where it is forever. Thats what hes communicating. Im not sure her attack is going to work in this primary. But you missed the second part of that attack respectfully, which is saying hes using Taxpayer Dollars<\/a> to do it. Pick up the phone and call disney. Thats what an executive is should be doing, working with the businesses to say heres the issues we have. Lets come up with a solution that works. Thats where i think he starts to lose the more traditional conservatives who thinks we can find allies and partnerships with business even if we like some of the esg that theyre doing. But republicans are wanting republican officials to take a more muscular view of their political power. They look at liberals and democrats who have power and say, they drive their agenda no matter what, and they dont want republicans to sit back and watch the culture rot. Thats why desantis is doing what hes doing. They want it until their taxes go up and their jobs go away. Taxes arent going up in florida. This is fascinating to watch. Republicans think going after disney is actually a good idea. I was laughing at the ideas that liberals sit around and lament how muscular republicans are. And how weak they are. Everybody needs a big Therapy Session<\/a> where they can all its happening right here. Are you familiar with the extra constitutional items joe biden has pursued. Thats one of the things that is keeping him alive in the party. What alyssa says is really important because i think youre right. I think that the base of the Republican Party<\/a> is eating up this disney attack. I think that oldline, traditional republicans are appalled by it because it offends their sense of the role of government. And, you know, and ron desantis, ten years ago, wrote a book that would have implied that he would have been appalled by it. So this is the point i keep making. Im not sure that the Republican Party<\/a> that is left is a party that is going to be receptive to the candidate we saw on the stage tonight. I just dont know if she can finesse that and straddle that line. The reason that there is another section of the american public, particularly like the general population, the General Election<\/a> voters who think this is silly, is because on one hand, you cant say that americans are having trouble with pocketbook needs, that we have to be strong and stand with ukraine, that we have to make sure we take care of the border, that we have to do these very, very strong issues and take these strong Policy Points<\/a> with domestic and Foreign Policy<\/a> issues, and then youre fighting mickey mouse. Like from just a General Election<\/a> voter, this argument that ron desantis its a hell of a gamble, its fundamentally politically silly. What happens if you dont win . Like disney is fighting you back, and what happens if the perception changes that you are losing to mickey mouse . It was so silly that he won reelection by 20 points. I would have beat charlie chris, okay . I know you like to denigrate your own people after they get slayed in an election. What he has done and the signals he has sent to people have not just worked for republicans in florida. It has worked on democrats. He won miamidade. But he didnt win miamidade because of the fight with disney. Its because of the tax status in florida. Its one of the best states to live in. Its safe. People are flocking there more than any other state in the country. Why does he not run on the economy and those accomplishments . Lets talk about what nikki haley said, though, because she was governor and she was talking about how she worked with businesses. Shes saying disney is welcome in sx South Carolina<\/a>, something desantis has criticized her for. Regardless of the argument about disney right now, i do think some people underestimate the fact that republican Activist Meetings<\/a> for years, disney has been a punching bag for one reason or another. And i think there are a number of Republican Voters<\/a> who may disagree with Governor Haley<\/a> and say, you know, Governor Desantis<\/a> knows the people of his state better than anyone else does, and so they know what fights they want him to pick and what fights are appropriate for him to pick. And so i dont know i dont know how this fight or how this fight ends up in this primary. I do think its a more complicated one than we say, and i dont know and i think that bakari is probably right, that in the General Election<\/a> she was able to in that answer kind of check two boxes. When you prepare for town halls, you figure out what you want to check off. She checked off, one, being a major punch in the face to ron desantis. But she also checked the box to what are republicans who are woke, what do they want to hear because she also followed that up with, you know, we dont need to be having concerns about what many republicans fear or have concerns with is a lot of this transgender men in sports, in womens sports. That is a concern for many republicans, and also the military and use of pronouns and implementing that into the military. These are things that many republicans want to hear a republican candidate in the iowa primary talk about. So she was able to check that box and also Ding Desantis<\/a> at the same time. She actually said she thought desantis didnt go far enough in his law. So she tried to again do both things at once. Listen, i think desantis is making a big gamble, which is he can go as far right on these cultural issues as he is and somehow outflank trump, emerge as the nominee, and then win a General Election<\/a> because biden, in his view, is so enfeebled that he can beat him. I think the positions hes taking are going to be heavy, heavy baggage in a General Election<\/a> if he were to become the nominee. Shes making a different gamble, that she can finesse her way through this, not take positions on some of these issues, and emerge in a General Election<\/a> and compete. The problem with that is you have to get to the General Election<\/a>, and im not sure that this lane that she imagines is there for her. Well see what that lane looks like, especially as this field is only growing. Up next, were also going to talk about what she said when it comes to Foreign Policy<\/a> issues, what she said about her position on the war in ukraine. Tonight, when we come back, well go live to kyiv on the ground. Plus, were going to do a big look ahead at this week on the Campaign Trail<\/a>. As we noted, three more are getting into the race. What impact will mike pence and Chris Christie<\/a>, and the governor of north dakota, doug burgum, have on this race. Stand by. Dont just connect your business. dock worker right on time. vo make it even smarter. We call this enterprise intelligence. I brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. Uh. Here ill take that. Everyone woo hoo ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. Enter the nourishing Moments Giveaway<\/a> for a chance to win 10,000. Introducing new. Black angus steakburgers, the Bourbon Bacon Jam<\/a> and jalapeno kick topped with a fourcheese crisp. Try all six ultimate steakburger combos served with fries and a drink, starting at 9. Download the app and earn double rewards on steakburgers for a limited time. Before she was a president ial candidate, nikki haley was the u. S. Ambassador to the United Nations<\/a> under former President Trump<\/a>. Tonight she told voters in iowa why she believes it is in americas best interest to keep supporting ukraine in its fight against russia. The way you prevent wars, not that we give cash to ukraine, not that we put troops on the ground, but that we get with our allies and we make sure we give them the equipment and the ammunition to win because when ukraine wins, that sends a message to china with taiwan. It sends a message to iran that wants to build a bomb. It sends a message to north korea testing ballistic missiles, and it sends a message to russia that its over. Thats what we have to do. And keep in mind everybody wants to know, well, how does this war end . It would end in a day if russia would pull out. If ukraine pulls out, then were all looking at a world war. Haleys remarks tonight a clear break from her former boss and now 2024 opponent donald trump. He refused to say if he believed ukraine should win that war and also wouldnt say whether or not Vladimir Putin<\/a> was a war criminal in his own town hall. Haley tonight referred to putin as a tyrant. This all comes as ukraine does appear to be gaining momentum in its effort to take the war into russian territory ahead of that expected counteroffensive. Cnns Fred Pleitgen<\/a> is tracking the latest developments live from kyiv. Fred, obviously ukrainian officials have a vested interest in who the potential republican nominee is given their Big Questions<\/a> over whether or not a future president , a future republican president , should they win, would continue funding ukraine. I wonder what officials make of comments like nikki haleys compared to comments like those of trump. Reporter well, i think theyd be fully on board with what nikki haley said in the town hall tonight. I was actually sitting with an adviser to ukraines presidency just a couple of days ago. One of the points he made was pretty much the point nikki haley made in the town hall tonight. Hes saying, look, to them this is a battle between autocracy and democracy. If ukraine loses, then autocracy wins. They think that is something where the west should have a vested interest in that. One of the things he said to me is the west is supporting ukraine because the west is supporting themselves. So clearly the ukrainians are trying to frame it that way in a battle that is bigger than ukraine, which is exactly what nikki haley said tonight as well. However, i think one of the things thats really important to point out is that the ukrainians certainly view with a lot of concern the upcoming president ial election because, of course, they did hear the comments that President Trump<\/a> made. They heard the comments that Rick Desantis<\/a> made as well. One of the things that Volodymyr Zelenskyy<\/a> said is, look, when ukraine was invaded, President Biden<\/a> stepped up. That support is ongoing, and of course he has some serious concerns in light of the fact that that support could change in the future. Its a big concern for the ukrainians also because right now, they are pretty much fully dependent on supplies of western weapons. Theyre not only cautious and concerned about losing supplies of weapons from the u. S. , but that the entire support for ukraine could collapse if the u. S. Changes its Point Of View<\/a> on all this. One thing, for instance, the germans agreed to give main battle tanks to ukraine, and they only did so because the u. S. Said it would give Abrams Main Battle Tanks<\/a> as well. The ukrainians are saying they are ready for their counteroffensive. They say it could take a very long time. They also understand that this war could take a very long time, and theres a lot of things they still want to get from the u. S. And from allies, talking about f16s for instance but one of the things Volodymyr Zelenskyy<\/a> was talking about as well was more air defenses. So they are looking very closely at what the candidates are saying, certainly will be looking very closely tonight as well, kaitlan. You really see the span of the republican field, especially today when vivek ramaswamy, he said he believed ukraine would have to make major concessions to have that end. Fred pleitgen live from kyiv, thank you. Up next, the gop field is about to grow and get even more crowded. One of those candidates promises that he will go directly after donald trump. Well talk about who that is right after this. Topped with a fourcheese crisp. Try all six ultimate steakburger combos served with fries and a drink, starting at 9. Download the app and earn double rewards on steakburgers for a limited time. Evas about to learn her fear of missing out leads to overeating. I totally eat stuff to not miss out. And thats just a bit of Psychology Eva<\/a> learned from noom weight. Sign up now at noom. Com hi, im norma, and i lost 53 pounds on golo. 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Com before they sell out again up next in the 2024 race, the republican nomination to the field is growing. Former Vice President<\/a> mike pence is now expected to announce on wednesday with a video and a speech in iowa, we are told. Later that evening, pence will join cnn for a town hall at 9 00 p. M. It is going to air live from des moines. It will be hosted by dana bash. It also comes as sources say the former new jersey governor, and 2016 president ial candidate, Chris Christie<\/a>, will announce his candidacy tuesday in New Hampshire<\/a>. Kristi has a reputation for being an inyourface debater, the last Election Cycle<\/a> back in 2016, senator marco rubio found that out when Kristi Single Handedly<\/a> ended his shot at the nomination during this debate. You have not been involved in the consequential decision where you had to be held accountable you just simply havent. I want to be like him to think about this, that is what washington, d. C. Does, the driveby shot at the beginning with incorrect and incomplete information, and then the Memorized 25 Second Speech<\/a> that is exactly what see, marco. Marco, the thing is this, when you are president of the United States<\/a>, when you are governor of a state, the memorized 30 seconds each were you talk about how Great America<\/a> is at the end it doesnt solve one problem for one person. This notion that barack obama doesnt know what he is doing there it is , whenever i swing five second speech, there it is, everybody. You know what the shame is, marco . The shame is that you would actually criticize somebody for showing up to work, plowing the streets, getting the trains run back on time when you have never been responsible a lot of laughs here in the room as we all watched that clip. For both sides of the table, i should note. Chris christie is going to be getting in the race, he has talked about giving it to trump on the debate stage, saying that he feels like he is one of the only people who can really engage with the former president. Is there a space for him . I dont want to say is very late for him . What does a Chris Christie<\/a> run in 2024 look like . He needs donald trump to show up at the debate. Will he ever actually be on stage . We had some conversation earlier, i dont know the answer to that question, i wouldnt necessarily be up there with him because the obvious it takes great pleasure in gutting his enemies on a debate stage, and really anywhere else. He is the ultimate pugilist of the Republican Party<\/a>, and is quite comfortable, lot people are comfortable with confrontation, this man thrives on confrontation, not just that moment, go back to when he was governor, he is having those town hall meetings, taking on the teachers unions, he thrives on it, so he will bring, i think, the most comfortable confrontation with trump. The question is, is he still a credible messenger for average republicans . I dont know we know that yet but we are going to find out. I dont think that these campaigns , while i think governor christie did a great job during his time in office, these campaigns need to be about more than just vanity projects or things we do when we are bored. Chris christie is his Running Cutting<\/a> board . I dont know, i mean running just to attack another candidate is not as substantive as we would like. One of his strongest voice. I would respectfully disagree with my new friend here, i think Chris Christie<\/a> is running as a Kamikaze Pilot<\/a> to take out donald trump is on favorability in the Republican Party<\/a> are skyhigh. This man has no shot at being the nominee or the president but he knows donald trump, it is personal with him. He was in his debate, in the west wing. He knows how to beat him. I with him, this is a conspiracy, i am with you. This is a conspiracy there, i think some donors got together and said your job is single handedly to do one thing, you go skin donald trump and Chris Christie<\/a> said i am not busy there is something to that, though. Ive been waiting for somebody to take a heavyhanded punch, not physically, a donald trump, because we are not talking about his fitness, not talk about his effort to overturn the election, Asa Hutchinson<\/a> is the closest and it is very, very mild. There is a lien for him, i am here for it. Just dont discount what James Cargill<\/a> said about running for president. It is like you dont just do it once and forget about it. Okay . So i think that, we still on . It is 11 00 [ laughter ] i think you really generally would like to be president. I think he thinks he will be good at it. The other thing is i would be worried if i was desantis being on the same stage with him, as well. I think he would be tough on him, as well. I want to followup that statement that he just said. Which one . Look, Chris Christie<\/a> is unapologetic , inyourface, that is is the way he has been, he takes, holds no prisoners, he is going to enter this race like a bull in a china shop and he is going to kick and kick and kick. Donald trump mostly, desantis, some, more than likely. But he is not afraid to be the person to do this because he knows that other people might be holding back and might have reservations, because the key is to attack donald trump without alienating his base at this stage of the game, Chris Christie<\/a> could care less about that, he just wants to go after him. Lets not drown out the other voices that actually have a shot at the nomination. He is clearing the lane for them on this mission. A lot of voices. We will see if your conspiracy plays out. Thank you all for joining me tonight, that was a great analysis of this town hall, thank you all for joining us tonight, and encore of that republican president ial town hall with nikki haley, if you missed it, is next, thanks so much. 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