Transcripts For CNNW Reliable Sources 20150503 : vimarsana.c

Watts burning . Sentiments summed up by an indignant man confronting her roll dough rivera of fox news. It became a youtube sensation. I want you and fox news to get out of Baltimore City because youre not here reporting about the boarded up homes and the Homeless People under. Lk. Youre not reporting on the poverty levels. Three years ago on the 300 man march, you werent here. But youre here for the black riots that happen. Of course it was another viral video of freddie gray that ignited the outrage and ended up with murder charge being filed friday. And the clip raises important questions about the medias approach. Mike lukovich summed it up pretty nicely here. What do the words and images being tossed around this week really mean and what are the lessons to be learned . Well joining me now is helen holten a member of baltimores city council. Thank you. Do you think the media have gotten this story right . Sometimes, yes, sometimes no. But it was krart bart who said in the 1920s who said we must pray for the journalists because they have the ability to shape public opinion. We are witnessing journalism shaping public opinion. Those of us on the ground who know when the journalists story is not accurate we have a responsibility to try and dispel myth for truth. Whats the story that you have seen thats not accurate . What have you seen thats not accurate . Well so maybe inaccurate is not the right word but, you know the story of freddie gray inflicted these injuries upon himself. Oh fraeddy gray had Spine Surgery and this is why he has ended up in this position with a broken vertebrae. You know what . There was no evidence released verifiable evidence, stating that this is what caused his injuries. We have just begun the process of justice for this young man, but in taking the lid often and addressing this injustice, there are many more deep rooted injustices that even led to the arrest of freddie gray in the first place. Do you feel when the states attorney wait wait. When the states attorney spoke about this arrest and the charges against him, what he was charged with were false. He was within his legal right to carry the knife that he had in his pocket. It wasnt a switchblade with a flip button on it. So, you know it is our role as local elected officials all the way up to the federal level to continue to press for the truth. And we cant control what the media writes and what they say. Well and you are the sources. I dont know where the information came from that he was carrying that switchblade, that it was a switchblade well it didnt come from me or any of my colleagues. It didnt come me for any of my colleagues. Right. Do you feel that all the Media Attention, National Media attention attention, has in some fashion accelerated some of the activities and some of the legal actions that are being taken . Im not in a position to answer that. You know we are in a unique opportunity, one that we have not faced that has led us to this point in time. Finally, let me ask you this question as someone who knows the city as well as you do. If you could be shaping some of the coverage that we know is going to be coming from out of baltimore over the next several days and weeks and months what is the story line that you most would like to see . The story line is that baltimore is en route to healing, restoration, and repair of damage done to our city for decades. The eyes are open the covers are off and its time to do the right thing for all the people of our city. Thank you very much and good luck to you. Thank you. Baltimore city councilwoman helen holton. The troubling story of freddie grays death while in the custody of the Baltimore Police is just the late nest a series of recent confrontations between Law Enforcement and private cities. Ferguson missouri Charleston South Carolina among them. Are the media too reactive too limited, too predictable with stories like these and how do the media affect whats happening on the gro unity . Joining me now are two accomplished journalists, cnn contributor l. Z. Granderson a Senior Writer support espn and cnn commentator sally comb who tweet, take a moment to realize National Attention wouldnt be on baltimore and freddie gray were it not for the riots. Shame on us. Welcome to you both. I will get to the shame on us in just a minute but i want to ask you both to start with something that veteran media critic and Baltimore Sun reporter david zu rowick wrote. The question we all have to ask ourselves, after all the hours of coverage on all the channels focused on baltimore this week are we really any smarter about race Police Community relations, or the death of freddie gray . Lz what do you think . I think we have all the information. I think the real question is it enough information to make us care . In other words, i think the average american understands that racism hasnt been eliminated. I think the average american understands that the remnants of institutionalized racism are still very much at play. The question is do we care . And thats the medias job to make people care . Its the medias job to give them the information, but its up to the individual to process the information and decide how, if any way, thats going to impact their lives, the way they go about their day, the way they decide to vote the way they decide to call or not call city hall or the congress. There are many things that the average american can do to express their concern for the world around them. The question is do they care enough to go out and do those things . Sally, im seeing some expression on your face that suggests youre not quite sold on all this. Well no i do agree with lz its up to the people to decide whether they care. I do think, first of all, to the quality of the coverage i think the information about, oh this is in fact a rampant problem, it is a problem in baltimore, you know that information has gotten out there. Theres a level of nuance sort of depth and breadth im not sure the media has across the board achieved so maybe smarter about the big issues but not smarter about the nuances yet, is that what youre saying . We talked about implicit bias. Have we talked about the fact one of the narratives is this cant be about race because theyre black cops black Police Commissioner black mayor. Its more nuanced. Have we made the connections between baltimore and ferguson and other places so they dont just seem like aberrations, that it seems clear to people its a systemic problem. To the point about caring i actually do think its the job of the media to make people care. Whether we consciously take on that role or not. I think more and more as the line between news and opinion is blurring and more and more anchors are showing their human side showing their opinion, then it becomes more transparent but care about what sally . Once you get into that area you get into very interesting and sometimes dangerous journalistic territory. Im not sure. If youre the reporter covering the story, youre covering the story, arent you, or are you there as an advocate or as an activist. There are lines that blur here. Juke slice it in a number of ways but what we cover and when we cover it is a reflection of the values of the media and what we care about. So the fact that, to take this example, generally by and large the National Mainstream media, aka the mostly white National Mainstream media, did not go to nor cover baltimore with the same energy intensity, blanket coverage until things turned violent shows what the media cares about. And thats what you meant in your tweet when you said shame, right . Yes, exactly. Lz weigh in on that. I was going to say i would add that, you know the Baltimore Sun did a pretty scathing report a year ago detailing the horrific things that the Baltimore Police had done and looked from 2011 to today how much money the city had to spend because of cases involving police brutality. The information was out there a year ago and it didnt really register enough to make people want to do things. I would challenge the notion that we didnt start to care until violence broke out. If you look at that 2011 report or that 2014 report about the Baltimore Police weve known that violence has been going on in that city for a long time. I think the part about caring what i was referring to was when you began to see that the people who expressed outrage are not the people who are directly impacted by the occurrences, its when you begin to realize that people care. So when you start seeing older asians and white americans out marching and protesting. When you begin to see people in the top 5 beginning to actively protest and put their voices out there there. Then you begin to realize that people begin to care and theyre beginning to put themselves out there a little bit more. What do you both have to say this is caring or its also showing up because there are those who say that the media swarm made in some ways some of the violence worse. Sally . I dont think theres any question that a perverse incentive is created by the media only paying sufficient attention to cases like these, to situations like these, when they turn violent. Lz what do you think . After weeks of peaceful protest. They did not get the same kind of coverage. Lz . Im not big into blaming the media for people being outraged. Thats like blaming a doctor for you having a cancer diagnosis. Just because were telling you that theres ill in the world doesnt mean were responsible for that ill. I just their its a cop out and i think its a way for people not to deal with the fact they have to do something about the ill thats being pointed out by the media. I want to ask you both we talked about the Mainstream Media, but the other big change weve seen over recent years is the social media, where people themselves are weighing this. Well be hearing from devon allen in a few minutes. Hes a citizen journal wois wants to be an aspireing photographer and his pictures have had impact. We heard from a young woman named julia blount with a Facebook Post that absolutely, positively went viral. She wrote, dear White Facebook friends you need you to suspect what black america is feeling right now and i need you to just listen. I hear hopelessness. I hor oppression. I hear despair, i hear anger. I hear poverty. Is what shes hearing not what Mainstream Media, whatever that means, is hearing, sally . You know i dont think so. And i mean again, this isnt like lz i dont want to blame the entire media. I remember during ferguson black journalist friends or sort of citizen journalists, not official with Big News Network journalist friends on the ground in ferguson reporting certain things happening, and people being skeptical of those reports because they werent coming from the quote, unquote, official and in that case mostly white reporters who were on the ground. So even within that context, theres a sort of skepticism and, frankly, segregation, and it relates to the segregation of experience. The sort of oe well as a white person thats not my experience of the cops so thats not how cops are. Lz let me give you the last words on the citizen journalist citizen social media impact. Well, i applaud them. I want more of it. The fact of the matter is we wouldnt have been talking about Trayvon Martin we wouldnt have been talking about Michael Brown or any of the cases if it wasnt for social media. If it wasnt for the citizen journalists, if you will. Ths important to keep in mind that a lot of social media particularly twitter, are just citizen journalists tweeting out stories they have seen or has been printed or published by maybe stream journalism. Its just another way, another method of getting the word out. I think you should be skeptical of Mainstream Media and social media and we shouldnt vilify one or automatically think one is more valid than the other. Thank you both. Lz also who is a fellow at the institute of politics at the university of chicago. Up next whats it like to have the media descend on your city and not recognize the city theyre describing . When we come back. Issa anderson. They bought the place four months ago on what was arguably the scariest day of their lives. Neither has any idea what the future holds for them. But they bought into a 30year mortgage anyway. That was bold. They must really believe in themselves. Big day . Ah, the usual. Moved some new cars. Hauled a bunch of steel. Kept the supermarket shelves stocked. Made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. Whats up for the next shift . Ah, nothing much. Just keeping the lights on. laugh nice. Doing the big things that move an economy. See you tomorrow, mac. See you tomorrow, sam. Just another day at norfolk southern. [ male announcer ] you wouldnt leave your car unprotected. But a lot of us leave our identities unprotected. Nearly half a million cars were stolen in 2012. But for every car stolen 34 people had their identities stolen. Identity thieves can steal your money damage your credit and wreak havoc on your life. Why risk it when you can help protect yourself from Identity Theft with one call to lifelock, a leader in Identity Theft protection . Lifelock actively patrols your sensitive personal information helping to guard your Social Security number, your Bank Accounts and credit, even the equity in your home. Your valuable personal assets look, your Credit Card Company may alert you to suspicious activity on the accounts you have with them, but that still may leave you vulnerable to big losses if a thief opens new accounts in your name or decides to drain your savings, home equity, or retirement accounts. And your Credit Report may only tell you after your identity has been compromised. But lifelock is proactive protection and watches out for you in ways that banks and Credit Card Companies alone just cant giving you comprehensive Identity Theft protection. The patented lifelock identity alert® system looks for threats to your identity helping to protect your finances and credit. You even get a 1 million service guarantee. Thats right. If your identity is ever compromised lifelock will spend up to 1 Million Dollars on experts to help restore it. You wouldnt leave your car unprotected. Dont leave your money, credit and good name unprotected. Call now and try lifelock riskfree for 60 days. Act now and get this document shredder free a 29 value when you use promo code go. Or go to lifelock. Com go. Try lifelock riskfree for 60 days and get this document shredder free a 29 value when you use promo code go. Thats promo code go. Call now welcome back to reliable sources. Were looking at the medias handling of the death of freddie gray in Police Custody and baltimores response. In stories where race is involved there is often criticism that the media buy into a dominant narrative then miss the distinctions and nuances of a story. We were struck by an essay by nprs steve inski who said baltimore is not ferguson. We welcome steve now. Thanks for joining us. Its an honor to be here frank. Thanks. Tell us about this story and what prompted you to do it. This was basically street reporting. I went to baltimore. I dont live very far away and i went out into the streets, into the affected areas on the morning after monday nights violence and i simply talked to who i talked with. Who do you find in the streets . What are they saying . What are they doing . And i encountered a lot of people we had 16 interviews with different kinds of people black and white, young and old, different kinds of people different parts of town although all in the same general area and they demonstrated a side of baltimore that i thought made the story more complex. I dont want do say that race is not a factor here. Obviously race is a huge factor in the history of baltimore and in the history of the United States and in the history of Police Community relations but we have a situation where you have a black mayor, a black Police Commissioner and a half africanamerican police force. What does that mean in the black community and it was about class. And you had people saying its less about race. Some said its not about race and about class. So how did that gibe with what you were seeing on the vets . You have to find some way to think about this situation where some of the Police Officers involved in incidents like the one that is still being investigated in which the officers have been charged, some officers in those incidents are africanamericans. So what do you make of that . That doesnt mean theres no racism in the system. That doesnt mean theres no racism as part of the equation but people on the streets who spoke with me saw it as a function of class and also a furntion the drug war. Were in west baltimore. Its a city with a serious drug problem. Certain areas are especially bad, and there were people in the community who felt that regardless of whether the officer was black or white, that they were targeted simply for being from this poor area with a drug problem. When you wrote this piece, were you trying or sort of making a statement thats obviously too heavyhanded perhaps, that the story was more complex than many of the media were portraying it . That is what i learned, and im simply going on what i learned here and what i have learned from covering other stories. Every place is a little different. Every story is a little bit different. Even ferguson is not exactly what we thought ferguson was, was it . As we learned more facts about what exactly happened in the central incident there, ultimately even the Baltimore City<\/a> because youre not here reporting about the boarded up homes and the Homeless People<\/a> under. Lk. Youre not reporting on the poverty levels. Three years ago on the 300 man march, you werent here. But youre here for the black riots that happen. Of course it was another viral video of freddie gray that ignited the outrage and ended up with murder charge being filed friday. And the clip raises important questions about the medias approach. Mike lukovich summed it up pretty nicely here. What do the words and images being tossed around this week really mean and what are the lessons to be learned . Well joining me now is helen holten a member of baltimores city council. Thank you. Do you think the media have gotten this story right . Sometimes, yes, sometimes no. But it was krart bart who said in the 1920s who said we must pray for the journalists because they have the ability to shape public opinion. We are witnessing journalism shaping public opinion. Those of us on the ground who know when the journalists story is not accurate we have a responsibility to try and dispel myth for truth. Whats the story that you have seen thats not accurate . What have you seen thats not accurate . Well so maybe inaccurate is not the right word but, you know the story of freddie gray inflicted these injuries upon himself. Oh fraeddy gray had Spine Surgery<\/a> and this is why he has ended up in this position with a broken vertebrae. You know what . There was no evidence released verifiable evidence, stating that this is what caused his injuries. We have just begun the process of justice for this young man, but in taking the lid often and addressing this injustice, there are many more deep rooted injustices that even led to the arrest of freddie gray in the first place. Do you feel when the states attorney wait wait. When the states attorney spoke about this arrest and the charges against him, what he was charged with were false. He was within his legal right to carry the knife that he had in his pocket. It wasnt a switchblade with a flip button on it. So, you know it is our role as local elected officials all the way up to the federal level to continue to press for the truth. And we cant control what the media writes and what they say. Well and you are the sources. I dont know where the information came from that he was carrying that switchblade, that it was a switchblade well it didnt come from me or any of my colleagues. It didnt come me for any of my colleagues. Right. Do you feel that all the Media Attention<\/a>, National Media<\/a> attention attention, has in some fashion accelerated some of the activities and some of the legal actions that are being taken . Im not in a position to answer that. You know we are in a unique opportunity, one that we have not faced that has led us to this point in time. Finally, let me ask you this question as someone who knows the city as well as you do. If you could be shaping some of the coverage that we know is going to be coming from out of baltimore over the next several days and weeks and months what is the story line that you most would like to see . The story line is that baltimore is en route to healing, restoration, and repair of damage done to our city for decades. The eyes are open the covers are off and its time to do the right thing for all the people of our city. Thank you very much and good luck to you. Thank you. Baltimore city councilwoman helen holton. The troubling story of freddie grays death while in the custody of the Baltimore Police<\/a> is just the late nest a series of recent confrontations between Law Enforcement<\/a> and private cities. Ferguson missouri Charleston South Carolina<\/a> among them. Are the media too reactive too limited, too predictable with stories like these and how do the media affect whats happening on the gro unity . Joining me now are two accomplished journalists, cnn contributor l. Z. Granderson a Senior Writer<\/a> support espn and cnn commentator sally comb who tweet, take a moment to realize National Attention<\/a> wouldnt be on baltimore and freddie gray were it not for the riots. Shame on us. Welcome to you both. I will get to the shame on us in just a minute but i want to ask you both to start with something that veteran media critic and Baltimore Sun<\/a> reporter david zu rowick wrote. The question we all have to ask ourselves, after all the hours of coverage on all the channels focused on baltimore this week are we really any smarter about race Police Community<\/a> relations, or the death of freddie gray . Lz what do you think . I think we have all the information. I think the real question is it enough information to make us care . In other words, i think the average american understands that racism hasnt been eliminated. I think the average american understands that the remnants of institutionalized racism are still very much at play. The question is do we care . And thats the medias job to make people care . Its the medias job to give them the information, but its up to the individual to process the information and decide how, if any way, thats going to impact their lives, the way they go about their day, the way they decide to vote the way they decide to call or not call city hall or the congress. There are many things that the average american can do to express their concern for the world around them. The question is do they care enough to go out and do those things . Sally, im seeing some expression on your face that suggests youre not quite sold on all this. Well no i do agree with lz its up to the people to decide whether they care. I do think, first of all, to the quality of the coverage i think the information about, oh this is in fact a rampant problem, it is a problem in baltimore, you know that information has gotten out there. Theres a level of nuance sort of depth and breadth im not sure the media has across the board achieved so maybe smarter about the big issues but not smarter about the nuances yet, is that what youre saying . We talked about implicit bias. Have we talked about the fact one of the narratives is this cant be about race because theyre black cops black Police Commissioner<\/a> black mayor. Its more nuanced. Have we made the connections between baltimore and ferguson and other places so they dont just seem like aberrations, that it seems clear to people its a systemic problem. To the point about caring i actually do think its the job of the media to make people care. Whether we consciously take on that role or not. I think more and more as the line between news and opinion is blurring and more and more anchors are showing their human side showing their opinion, then it becomes more transparent but care about what sally . Once you get into that area you get into very interesting and sometimes dangerous journalistic territory. Im not sure. If youre the reporter covering the story, youre covering the story, arent you, or are you there as an advocate or as an activist. There are lines that blur here. Juke slice it in a number of ways but what we cover and when we cover it is a reflection of the values of the media and what we care about. So the fact that, to take this example, generally by and large the National Mainstream<\/a> media, aka the mostly white National Mainstream<\/a> media, did not go to nor cover baltimore with the same energy intensity, blanket coverage until things turned violent shows what the media cares about. And thats what you meant in your tweet when you said shame, right . Yes, exactly. Lz weigh in on that. I was going to say i would add that, you know the Baltimore Sun<\/a> did a pretty scathing report a year ago detailing the horrific things that the Baltimore Police<\/a> had done and looked from 2011 to today how much money the city had to spend because of cases involving police brutality. The information was out there a year ago and it didnt really register enough to make people want to do things. I would challenge the notion that we didnt start to care until violence broke out. If you look at that 2011 report or that 2014 report about the Baltimore Police<\/a> weve known that violence has been going on in that city for a long time. I think the part about caring what i was referring to was when you began to see that the people who expressed outrage are not the people who are directly impacted by the occurrences, its when you begin to realize that people care. So when you start seeing older asians and white americans out marching and protesting. When you begin to see people in the top 5 beginning to actively protest and put their voices out there there. Then you begin to realize that people begin to care and theyre beginning to put themselves out there a little bit more. What do you both have to say this is caring or its also showing up because there are those who say that the media swarm made in some ways some of the violence worse. Sally . I dont think theres any question that a perverse incentive is created by the media only paying sufficient attention to cases like these, to situations like these, when they turn violent. Lz what do you think . After weeks of peaceful protest. They did not get the same kind of coverage. Lz . Im not big into blaming the media for people being outraged. Thats like blaming a doctor for you having a cancer diagnosis. Just because were telling you that theres ill in the world doesnt mean were responsible for that ill. I just their its a cop out and i think its a way for people not to deal with the fact they have to do something about the ill thats being pointed out by the media. I want to ask you both we talked about the Mainstream Media<\/a>, but the other big change weve seen over recent years is the social media, where people themselves are weighing this. Well be hearing from devon allen in a few minutes. Hes a citizen journal wois wants to be an aspireing photographer and his pictures have had impact. We heard from a young woman named julia blount with a Facebook Post<\/a> that absolutely, positively went viral. She wrote, dear White Facebook<\/a> friends you need you to suspect what black america is feeling right now and i need you to just listen. I hear hopelessness. I hor oppression. I hear despair, i hear anger. I hear poverty. Is what shes hearing not what Mainstream Media<\/a>, whatever that means, is hearing, sally . You know i dont think so. And i mean again, this isnt like lz i dont want to blame the entire media. I remember during ferguson black journalist friends or sort of citizen journalists, not official with Big News Network<\/a> journalist friends on the ground in ferguson reporting certain things happening, and people being skeptical of those reports because they werent coming from the quote, unquote, official and in that case mostly white reporters who were on the ground. So even within that context, theres a sort of skepticism and, frankly, segregation, and it relates to the segregation of experience. The sort of oe well as a white person thats not my experience of the cops so thats not how cops are. Lz let me give you the last words on the citizen journalist citizen social media impact. Well, i applaud them. I want more of it. The fact of the matter is we wouldnt have been talking about Trayvon Martin<\/a> we wouldnt have been talking about Michael Brown<\/a> or any of the cases if it wasnt for social media. If it wasnt for the citizen journalists, if you will. Ths important to keep in mind that a lot of social media particularly twitter, are just citizen journalists tweeting out stories they have seen or has been printed or published by maybe stream journalism. Its just another way, another method of getting the word out. I think you should be skeptical of Mainstream Media<\/a> and social media and we shouldnt vilify one or automatically think one is more valid than the other. Thank you both. Lz also who is a fellow at the institute of politics at the university of chicago. Up next whats it like to have the media descend on your city and not recognize the city theyre describing . When we come back. Issa anderson. They bought the place four months ago on what was arguably the scariest day of their lives. Neither has any idea what the future holds for them. But they bought into a 30year mortgage anyway. That was bold. They must really believe in themselves. Big day . Ah, the usual. Moved some new cars. Hauled a bunch of steel. Kept the supermarket shelves stocked. Made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. Whats up for the next shift . Ah, nothing much. Just keeping the lights on. laugh nice. Doing the big things that move an economy. See you tomorrow, mac. See you tomorrow, sam. Just another day at norfolk southern. [ male announcer ] you wouldnt leave your car unprotected. But a lot of us leave our identities unprotected. Nearly half a million cars were stolen in 2012. But for every car stolen 34 people had their identities stolen. Identity thieves can steal your money damage your credit and wreak havoc on your life. Why risk it when you can help protect yourself from Identity Theft<\/a> with one call to lifelock, a leader in Identity Theft<\/a> protection . Lifelock actively patrols your sensitive personal information helping to guard your Social Security<\/a> number, your Bank Accounts<\/a> and credit, even the equity in your home. Your valuable personal assets look, your Credit Card Company<\/a> may alert you to suspicious activity on the accounts you have with them, but that still may leave you vulnerable to big losses if a thief opens new accounts in your name or decides to drain your savings, home equity, or retirement accounts. And your Credit Report<\/a> may only tell you after your identity has been compromised. But lifelock is proactive protection and watches out for you in ways that banks and Credit Card Companies<\/a> alone just cant giving you comprehensive Identity Theft<\/a> protection. The patented lifelock identity alert\u00ae system looks for threats to your identity helping to protect your finances and credit. You even get a 1 million service guarantee. Thats right. If your identity is ever compromised lifelock will spend up to 1 Million Dollars<\/a> on experts to help restore it. You wouldnt leave your car unprotected. Dont leave your money, credit and good name unprotected. Call now and try lifelock riskfree for 60 days. Act now and get this document shredder free a 29 value when you use promo code go. Or go to lifelock. Com go. Try lifelock riskfree for 60 days and get this document shredder free a 29 value when you use promo code go. Thats promo code go. Call now welcome back to reliable sources. Were looking at the medias handling of the death of freddie gray in Police Custody<\/a> and baltimores response. In stories where race is involved there is often criticism that the media buy into a dominant narrative then miss the distinctions and nuances of a story. We were struck by an essay by nprs steve inski who said baltimore is not ferguson. We welcome steve now. Thanks for joining us. Its an honor to be here frank. Thanks. Tell us about this story and what prompted you to do it. This was basically street reporting. I went to baltimore. I dont live very far away and i went out into the streets, into the affected areas on the morning after monday nights violence and i simply talked to who i talked with. Who do you find in the streets . What are they saying . What are they doing . And i encountered a lot of people we had 16 interviews with different kinds of people black and white, young and old, different kinds of people different parts of town although all in the same general area and they demonstrated a side of baltimore that i thought made the story more complex. I dont want do say that race is not a factor here. Obviously race is a huge factor in the history of baltimore and in the history of the United States<\/a> and in the history of Police Community<\/a> relations but we have a situation where you have a black mayor, a black Police Commissioner<\/a> and a half africanamerican police force. What does that mean in the black community and it was about class. And you had people saying its less about race. Some said its not about race and about class. So how did that gibe with what you were seeing on the vets . You have to find some way to think about this situation where some of the Police Officers<\/a> involved in incidents like the one that is still being investigated in which the officers have been charged, some officers in those incidents are africanamericans. So what do you make of that . That doesnt mean theres no racism in the system. That doesnt mean theres no racism as part of the equation but people on the streets who spoke with me saw it as a function of class and also a furntion the drug war. Were in west baltimore. Its a city with a serious drug problem. Certain areas are especially bad, and there were people in the community who felt that regardless of whether the officer was black or white, that they were targeted simply for being from this poor area with a drug problem. When you wrote this piece, were you trying or sort of making a statement thats obviously too heavyhanded perhaps, that the story was more complex than many of the media were portraying it . That is what i learned, and im simply going on what i learned here and what i have learned from covering other stories. Every place is a little different. Every story is a little bit different. Even ferguson is not exactly what we thought ferguson was, was it . As we learned more facts about what exactly happened in the central incident there, ultimately even the Justice Department<\/a> found no reason to charge the officer. The facts turned out to be different than we thought although the broader problem in ferguson turned out to be quite severe and led to the resignation of a number of officials there. In baltimore you have just got a different particular history. You have got a Different Police<\/a> force. You have got a different population and i think it is fair to point out the complexities of a particular situation. We in the National Media<\/a> have this tendency to plug each new incident into a narrative that we think we already know. Its totally true. And its familiar it can be easy but it can also be just in very subtle ways a little wrong. The thing thats really hard too, when theres a huge story like this with violence on the street and that story in some ways at least while its happening is kind of writing itself is to stand out in front of that and say, hang on a second there are things people here need to know and we need to say. There isnt a story i have covered where i show up on the ground and im not saying this is more complicated than i thought or than it looked and sounded from afar. I want to say one other thing i did, frank, and no offense to cnn and the outstanding tv reporters that you have but as we drove around wetion baltimore, there were tv trucks and whenever we saw one, we went another direction. We wanted to see what was happening do shall. You think something is happening differently away from the camera . I think sometimes that can be the case. And thats inevitable. Im not saying tv is doing that deliberately, but theres something about the circus of the lights and of the cameras and Everything Else<\/a> that does tend to attract attention and maybe changes the situation in a little way or in a subtle but important way and so id go over a few blocks and see what was happening a few blocks away and ultimately i wasnt trying to make some point about the media. I was just listen to what people were saying and watching what they were doing and trying to understand their struggle to grasp what was going on in their community and also to deal with it. Steve inskeep, thanks so much. Another view of the street was provided by a 26yearold photographer devon allen, whose shot ended up on the cover of time magazine. He had been protesting situations like charleston and ferguson only to find his hometown of baltimore up in arms. Devon allen, thanks for joining us. Thank you. I want to start with this picture that ended up on the cover of time magazine. What did this picture mean to you . Thats a very powerful picture right now for my city. Basically that was the first incident that happened here during the protests where it got kind of out of hand. You know its not the most positive picture but i think it tells a story of exactly whats going on in my city right now. What is the picture you want your pictures to tell of your city . Basically i want to tell the truth, you know, like i stated on my instagram. I want to tell the good the bad, and also the ugly. I want to show the you know the rioting, the fighting but i still want to show you the guys cleaning up the city the people protesting with their hands up and how unified and peaceful my city really is. Devin i have seen a lot of your pictures online. Some of them are very powerful. Describe one or two or three of your favorites, the ones that you think tell the story that the world least understands and most needs to know. One that actually touched me personally was a guy holding his son and he had his his son had his hands up. Me being a father that touched me the most because my fear is the way the world is, is raising a daughter whats going on in the world now, it scares me. As i was taking that picture it touched me. I taerd up a little bit. I love this city so much and i love these people. This is where i grew up. Thats why the pictures are so intense because my heart is in every single shot before i snap. You also have pictures of police. I want to show both sides of the fence, not just on, you know whats going on on my side, me being a proprotester and the people in my city. The officers are getting profiled as hard as we are right now. How do you feel about the media from all over the world really that have come into baltimore in droves to cover the story because of the disturbances . I felt as though they should have been here. They come after the fact, you know to televise and they want to talk. Just focused on the riots, worried about what riot is going to break out next. If the city dont want to here what they want to hear. They should have been here. We needed them last week, you know and thats what kind of has me mad, and then theyre here but theyre not focusing on the key points which are the people that are here. You know they are focused on the police. They follow the police around. They go where theyre told. No. Instead of sitting on pennsylvania avenue and north avenue with the National Guard<\/a> or the s. W. A. T. Team, you need to be hitting these side streets, baker street. Some of these streets, talk to these people. Photograph these people because they ever the ones that stories need to be told. Thats what i think the media should focus on more so than just the police aspect and the negative aspect thats being showed on tv. Devin allen, as a citizen journalist and photographer you certainly have made a mark. I wish you luck. I hope you keep taking pictures and well be watching to see what you do. Thanks. Thank you. Coming up theres a new fourletter word thats come out of baltimore. Well explain that when we come back. There is an ancient rhythm. [ ] that flows through all things. Through rocky spires. [ ] and oceans swell. [ ] the endless. Stillness of green. [ ] and in the restless depths of human hearts. [ ] the voice of the wild within. Welcome back. Im frank sesno sitting in for brian stelter. The word thug has gotten a lot of Media Attention<\/a> this week. We airs first heard it from baltimores mayor, marylands governor and even from president obama when they described the rioters who looted several businesses and set fires across baltimore on monday night. Too many people have spent generations building up this city for it to be destroyed by thugs. This is lawless gangs of thugs roaming the streets causing damage to property and injuring innocent people. You have some of the same organizers now going back into these communities to try to clean up in the aftermath of a handful of protesters a handful of criminals and thugs who tore up the place. And we saw the word surface on twitter, the word thug appeared in roughly 50,000 tweets on monday. Like this tweet from donald trump. Our great africanamerican president hasnt exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying baltimore. But theres also been a lot of criticism for using the word. Take a listen to megyn kelly and cnns erin burnett pushing their guests to define the protesters. Cement blocks at firefighters who were trying to save the neighborhood. Im thinking thugs is not far off the mark. Am i wrong . I think not far off the mark is six Police Officers<\/a> putting so thats a dodge. Answer my question. Im answering you. No youre you dont want dialogue. Im trying to have a conversation youre trying to talk about somebody elses behavior. Im asking you they know its wrong to steal and burn down an old persons home. I mean come on. Come on . So calling them thugs just call them [ bleep ]. Just call them [ bleep ]. No we dont have to call them by names such as that. So is the t word the new n word and should people in the media use it or avoid it . Why dud words and pictures for that matter matter so much. Joining me is soledad obrien, a former cnn anchor who hosted quk black in america. Thank you for being here. Its my pleasure. Why has thug become such a loaded word . Listen, i think what the Baltimore City<\/a> councilman was trying to tell erin burnett is thug is a proxy. Its a word we use instead of the n word and i think thats really true. I cant think of a situation where theres ever been a headline or someone has called a white young person who is in the middle of a violent protest demonstration whatever a thug. We use it all the time when were talking about people in the inner city and so listen here i randomly grabbed a punch of headlines. San francisco world series marred by violence. The word thug doesnt come up. Theyre talking about baseball fans marred by shootings and fires and arrests. Ohio state football revelers, mostly white by the way, back in january, screaming in delight set nearly 90 fires, tear down a goalpost blah blah blah. We never describe them as thugs in that. Soledad, i looked the word up in a bunch of different dictionaries and no way did i find a racial connection. No obviously and the africanamerican mayor of the city and the africanamerican president of the United States<\/a> used the word. Doesnt necessarily mean how does that work . Doesnt kneesly mean that they dont have a specific agenda in how theyre using it. When you talk about journalists though i think journalists shouldnt have an agenda. Richard german who played for the Seattle Seahawks<\/a> really said listen its the new n word and i think thats true. I think when you examine when the word is used its used to describe the actions of people of color, specifically people who are in the inner city. I think for journalists to have a debate back and forth about thug and thuggery is naive and sort of misplaced because its not really the question. Journalists should strive to use words that describe accurately whats happening. So for example what are the words journalists should be used to describe the people who are out on the streets doing this kind of thing . It is lawless activity that they were seeing right . Were not trying to excuse it in the process . Oh gosh not at all. I think you say these are protesters who are now throwing cement blocks at blah blah blah. These are people who are now doing this. Look at this picture. That group right there is doing this. But let me challenge you on that though soledad. Wouldnt the protesters people who have been going out of their way on the streets of baltimore in peaceful protest those would be Peaceful Protesters<\/a>. Object to the words there are protesters throwing the rocks and bottles. I think theres violent protesters Peaceful Protesters<\/a> drunk protesters angry protesters. When you look specifically about how the word riot is used and thug is used its always used around people of color specifically in an inner city context. I cant tell you how the black mayor does it or the president of the United States<\/a> chooses to use the word. I can only comment on how i think journalists should think about a word that actually doesnt have a lot of nuance and isnt specific but somehow seems to be used a lot when youre talking about africanamericans. So me personally i wouldnt call someone a thug. I think its not a descriptive term. The journalists job and i think whats been sorely lacking in this story, frankly, is context. Description and context. Words deliver meaning, they deliver con tech they also have trigger emotions in different kinds of people so its really very important they are close adhered but we also dont want to run away from the english language. Im not sure i want you to be my editor next time. Youre tough. Its good. Thank you very much. Its my pleasure. Coming up more leaks coming out in the Brian Williams<\/a> saga and what they say about his chances of returning to nbc news. A veteran of both the anchors chair and corporate intrigue joins me next. Where do you get this kind of confidence . At your ford dealer. Thats where our expert trained technicians. State of the Art Technology<\/a> and warranty parts keep your vehicle running right. Its no wonder we sold more than 3. 5 million tires last year and durning the big tire event get a 120 mail in rebate on 4 select tires. Meet the worlds newest Energy Superpower<\/a>. Surprised . In fact, america is now the worlds number one natural gas producer. And we could soon become number one in oil. Because Hydraulic Fracturing Technology<\/a> is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. Supporting millions of new jobs. Billions in tax revenue. And a new century of American Energy<\/a> security. The new Energy Superpower<\/a> . Its red, white and blue. Log on to learn more. Im one. Im one. Im one. I am one of the ones who discovered always discreet underwear for sensitive bladders. It makes me feel secure, confident and i feel protected. I mean i feel comfortable to move in them they move with me. I love always discreet underwear because of the fit. The fabric is very soft. I can wear whatever i want to wear. Always discreet made me a very happy woman. Join over 500,000 women whove discovered always discreet underwear. For more stories and your free sample go to alwaysdiscreet. Com so bladder leaks and feel like no big deal. Dont just visit new york. Visit tripadvisor new york. Tripadvisor not only has millions of real travelers reviews and opinions, but checks hundreds of websites, so people can get the best hotel prices. To plan, compare book the perfect trip, visit tripadvisor. Com today. Welcome back to reliable sources. Were now three months into Brian Williams<\/a> sixmonth suspension for exaggerating his iraq reporting. The leaks continue to flow out of nbc, possibly shedding light on the future for Brian Williams<\/a> and whether nbc will even allow him to return to the nightly news anchor chair. Imagine that. Not all the leaks seem to be on the same wage. This daily news article shouts exclusive, news chief wants Brian Williams<\/a> back on the air, while this story from the hollywood reporters says nbc chairman andy lack not convinced Brian Williams<\/a> can return. One thing is certain, nbcs ratings have softened. Its fallen behind abcs world news tonight with david muir who just claimed his fourth week on top winning more total viewers as well as the coveted 25 to 54yearold demographic. Whats at stake . What are Network Execs<\/a> thinking . Calculating . Whats the view from the anchor chair . Joining me is carol simpson. Good to be with you, frank. Is there any way in your view that Brian Williams<\/a> returns to that anchor chair . What do you make of andy lacks leaked nbc news chief wants Brian Williams<\/a> back on the air which was contradicted by another leak not very long after that . I think Brian Williams<\/a> has got to go and i think andy lack knows that he has to go. And you say that why . I say that because nbcs image has been tarnished by its anchor making exaggerations and fabrications about his exploits. How can you believe a network whose major anchor of the flagship broadcast you cant trust what hes saying . What do you make of these stories that have come out . I say this because i know you know something of network intrigue and how Network Execs<\/a> think or dont think or whatever you want to think of these leaks that have been coming in the press that well he shouldnt be back he should be back. Well you know its the question of is it about the money or is it about the news and the integrity of the news . Are these just trial balloons to see how people might react. I dont know frank. There are people with certain interests on one side or the other is they try to put forward their position but regardless to what is out there in the ethiereth ether, they cant bring him back. They cant bring him back. Im sorry. Its just a matter of credibility. Well of course. I started at nbc news and this was a network that took a chance on a young radio reporter in chicago and gave me a chance to become a network news correspondent, and i have great fondness for nbc, and just the idea that the Nancy Sneiderman<\/a> situation and then the Brian Williams<\/a> situation, that my former network is hurting, is damaged. How does your hurting, damaged former network then as you see it repair the damage repair the credibility, and get on to its next phase . Well i think lester holt has been doing a terrific job and while there may have been some slippage in the ratings, the bottom has not fallen out, and he is credible and he has integrity, and he has proven himself capable of taking on that whole job. So i think they ought to go with him and start grooming somebody else that can take brians place permanently on a more permanent basis. Does it have to be lester holt . He certainly has worked long and hard. He has. I think it should be lester holt and i think it would be an uproar if lester holt was not given the job and it went to somebody else if brian leaves the network. Let me ask this one last question. I think everybody would agree about this credibility thing but this is also a business and the business turns on the ratings. If the focus groups say Brian Williams<\/a> would be stronger there may be those within the network who say find a way to bring him back. The world is a different place. America is all about redemption. Brian williams can find a way to do that. What would your reaction be to that . That would be not good enough for me. I remember when journalism and the News Division<\/a>s at the networks didnt have to make money. They just had to go off and do good work and win awards and that kind of thing. But when the networks were bought by Different Companies<\/a> like ge and now Nbc Universal<\/a> and maybe comcast, everything changed, and the News Division<\/a> was just like any other division and it had to have a bottom line that it met. You cant cover news that way with a budget that says you spend one day on a story and thats it whether youve got the story or not. So if the bean counters are the ones that make the decision and say he must come back because the ratings are better with him, what is sad sign for Television Network<\/a> jumpism. Carole simpson with a memo to the bean counters. Thank you very much for being here this morning. Appreciate it. Up next here is a provocative question for a sunday morning. What makes one Natural Disaster<\/a> deserving of more News Coverage<\/a> than another . Well look at the reporting on the Nepal Earthquake<\/a> with a key editorial decision makemaker after the break. Yep. Youre selling the mitchmobile . Man, we had a lot of good times in this baby. Whats your dad want for it . Like a hundred and fifty grand, two hundred if they want that tape deck. Youre not going to tell your dad about the time my hamster had babies in the backseat, are you . thats just normal wear and tear, dude. vo subaru has the highest resale value of any brand. According to kelley blue book. And mitch. Love. Its what makes a subaru a subaru. Hey mom, you want to live by the lake, right . Yeah. Theres here. Did you just share a listing with me . Look at this one. Its got a great view of the lake. Its really nice mom. Your dad wouldve loved this place. Youre not just looking for a house. Youre looking for a place for your life to happen. Zillow welcome back to reliable sources. This week, as often happens, the American Media<\/a> found a Huge International<\/a> story overshadowed by a huge domestic story. The riots in baltimore took up much of the band width that might have been devoted to the deaths of over 5,000 people in the Nepal Earthquake<\/a>. Nepal, a tough remote place that few americans know or have ever seen. Nonetheless, it got a great deal of coverage. And in the twitter era how can social media affect the news medias efforts to tell a complicated story from a far off land . How do news organizations mobilize and make this story matter . There are few better to answer these questions than tony maddox. Hes executive Vice President<\/a> , managing director of cnn international. He joins me from atlanta. Good to see you. Good to see you too, frank. One thing has changed with social immediate y. Because viewers from all over the world can get involved in a story in a way they couldnt have done 15, 20 years ago. The coverage of a story like this 20 years ago would have been a oneway conversation. How does that change the coverage of a disaster like this tony . It changes everything really. I mean in terms of the perceptions of the story and the introduction you highlighted the fact that baltimore came along and of course domestic has to focus very strongly on that. But cnn across all of its platforms here at international and all throughout our Online Services<\/a> not only are we reaching many people but theyre also reaching us. Theyre giving us feedback. Theyre telling us about people who they my might be missing, places where they think it might be really appalling. Youll notice one of the most arresting videos was the avalanche video which we got via youtube. People were filing their material to us. The video youre sharing right now, this is shot by individuals. They post that online. The news gathering process has become much more of a twoway street than it ever used to be. What do you say to people who say that this is a very sort of subjective kind of thing, that when there was the Haiti Earthquake<\/a> for example, cnn was wall to wall with so much of it others were wall to wall, and in nepal theres been a lot of coverage but not nearly enough. And this is a very subjective kind of coverage. It is. And its always a judgment call on how much these stories you feel are going to resonate with your audiences. And candidly you also have to take your place in the news queue. Baltimore has been an american moment. Theres no doubt about that. Were fortunate at cnn that we can do many big stories at the same time and get enormous exposure across all platforms. This nepal story has been eight out of ten of the top stories on our International Digital<\/a> sites this week. The videos have had millions of views from there. And across domestic as well. I just want people to not just think of these stories in terms of how much theyre on cnn in the u. S. Youve got to look at the entirety of all our platforms. And this story has had a huge impact. Stories like this are important in their own right to get the information out, but theyre also important for people to know to get the aid in. Cnn has a huge impact on these stories, frank. We can do these stories like few others can. And once we get inside that story we know that we can open this up to people. You write in your introduction its a remote place, many people havent been there. But many people have heard of katmandu. Theyve obviously heard of mt. Everest. And if you see a piece like arwa damon did going to the epicenter, seeing a little girl whose back was injured the kind of pieces sanjay was doing where he was talking to people in the hospitals, helping people in the hospitals, humanize these stories. And people then want to help. People want to do the right thing. They want to get involved. All right, tony. Tony maddox thanks. Always a pleasure. Appreciate it. And coming up, irans top foreign diplomat is speaking about jailed Washington Post<\/a> reporter Jason Rezaian<\/a>. But is there cause for hope . We do it . Why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people . Why are we so committed to keeping you connected . Why combine performance with a conscience . Why innovate for a future without accidents . Why do any of it . Why do all of it . Because if it matters to you its everything to us. The xc60 crossover. From volvo. Big day . Ah, the usual. Moved some new cars. Hauled a bunch of steel. Kept the supermarket shelves stocked. Made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. Whats up for the next shift . Ah, nothing much. Just keeping the lights on. laugh nice. Doing the big things that move an economy. See you tomorrow, mac. See you tomorrow, sam. Just another day at norfolk southern. We all enter this world with a shout and we see no reason to stop. So cvs health is creating industryleading programs and tools that help people stay on medicines as their doctors prescribed. It could help save tens of thousands of lives every year. And that w ould be something worth shouting about. Cvs health, because health is everything. Welcome back to reliable sources. Today marks 285 days, 285 days that the Washington Post<\/a>s Tehran Bureau<\/a> chief Jason Rezaian<\/a> has been detained in an iranian prison. Rezaian was recently charged by the iranian authorities with four counts including espionage. This week irans foreign minister, javad zarif, spoke with the Washington Post<\/a>s David Ignatius<\/a> at nyu, giving some hope that a top iranian official may actually favor Jason Rezaian<\/a>s release. Heres what he had to say. Unfortunately your friend and my friend jason is accused of a very serious offense. And i hope that hes cleared in a court. But he will have to face a court. Hes an iranian citizen. It is unfortunate that some overzealous lowlevel operative tried to take advantage of him. And i dont go into further detail because thats a pending case before the court. And i hope that he will be cleared of that charge. Rezaian is accused of a very serious charge which could carry a maximum sentence of 20 years if hes found guilty. Last week on this program we spoke to the Washington Post<\/a>s executive editor marty baron, who called the charges absurd. Were obviously talking to the u. S. Government. The u. S. Government has had conversations, repeated conversations with the iranian government about getting him released, and at least in the interim getting him better conditions. Hes gotten somewhat better conditions but he certainly has not been released and at the moment theres no prospect of him being released. We hope for better. Like marty baron all of us here at cnn are also hoping for Jason Rezaian<\/a>s quick release. Well stay on top of this story. And we hope they are watching in iran. Well thats it for this televised edition of reliable sources. Im frank sesno sitting in for brian stelter. Thanks for watching. State of the union starts right now. Captions by vitac www. Vitac. Com this is cnn breaking news. Good afternoon. Im Michael Smerconish<\/a> in baltimore this hour. Breaking news. The mayor of baltimore has just lifted a citywide curfew which had been in place since tuesday night. I want to go straight to cnns renee marsh. You know michael, we did get this news from the mayor just a short time ago that that curfew 10 00 p. M. Has been lifted. She said in part in a statement, my goal has always been not to have the curfew in place a single day longer than was necessary. But of course we should point out shes been under tremendous pressure to lift this curfew. 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