Transcripts For CNNW Reliable Sources 20190818 : vimarsana.c

Donald trump hits a dark new milestone, raising new questions about how to deal with disinformation emanating from the oval office. First, the right has long accused the media of bias, but now some on the left are echoing those accusations. Bernie sanders lashing out at the washington post, accusing the pape of taking orders from its own, amazon owner jeff bezos. This comes as tensions over coverage of trump and race hit a fever pitch in the New York Times news room with slate publishing a full transcript of the papers town hall this 35st week where New York Times editor spoke out on covering the president. Saying, this is hard stuff. Were covering a president who lies and says outlandish things, but our role is not to be the leader of the resistance. With me to discuss is adam serwer, mary curtis, jim rootenberg and writer for the New York Times opinion section, bari weiss. Welcome to reliable sources. This resistance issue is not necessarily unique to the times, but does journalism need to update its approach to confront the unique challenge donald trump presents . Yes and no. Ill quote another executive editor at another newspaper whose transcripts are not out about their internal meeting. Thats marty baron who said, were at work, not war. Ive written about this a lot. Really, the truth is that the job doesnt change. Its being really aggressive about telling the truth. The trump administration, trump era forces us to be a little more aggressive because were met with so much to report, so much disinformation, so much misinformation, so much division, so much direct affronts to what we do as reporters. Adam, youve been tough on the times with regard to their coverage of trump and their reluctance to brand trump as a racist, but do you rithink journalists risk playing into the i dont think that should be a concern one way or the other. The question is whether or not theyre describing things accurately. If the president tells a bunch of women of color to go back to the crimeinfested places from which they came, that is a classic racist trope and should be described as such. I dont think its a question of this argument over whether they should be the resistance is actually a sort of straw man distraction from whats actually happening, which is people demanding that the time not moderate its coverage with elaborate euphemisms to describe things that can be described in more straightforward language. Elaborate euphemisms, i like that. Bari, do you think theres a growing problem with what is termed yeah, i think that trump is the very, very obvious threat to the job that were trying to do every day at places like the New York Times, which is to tell the truth, to surface surprising stories and to tell readers to basically be curators rather than almost like giving readers like a rat with a heroin pellet. Giving readers what they want. I didnt see the rat with the heroin in a sense twitter and social media in general has become a bit has become another incredible pressure source on news rooms. That happens in more benal ways. Jeffrey epstein is trending, we should get more opeds on Jeffrey Epstein because readers are interested and theyre going to do well, right . But then it can be it becomes almost like what i mean to say is we know that readers, our readers feel have very, very strong feelings about let me just take an example transgender athletes. We know they have very strong feelings and that creates incredible controversy. We need to be very careful about the right way to write about that as to not isolate our readers. Where once it was advertisers we feared angering. Now its readers. Not only is it readers in general as an abstraction, you get the feedback from them immediately and right away. And that is an incredibly insidious threat, i think. Very different one from trump, which is very blunt and obvious and blatant. But this one is, i think, more subtle. Interesing. Mary, you know, part of the conversation is the importance of reaching out to understand understanding. Donald trump is supported by many, many people and theres an obligation to try to reach out beyond our various echo chambers to achieve that understanding. Thats been a core part of what youve done as a columnist. Is that sufficient in these times when youre trying to build bridges or do you need to, as adam says, just call it what it is and if that shuts off debate, so be it . I agree with both of those things. You can call a thing a thing, as adam said. There was a reluctance to call trumps words racists. Also, as you know, i have often reached out to different folks. I did a narrative on Confederate Heritage groups. I covered the First Tea Party in opryland and met a lot of folks whose rhetoric was personally offensive to me in some ways but i wanted to meet them as human beings. I do think thats incredibly important. At the same time you shouldnt soft soap what theyre saying. You should quote them accurately, as jim said, we have to keep doing our jobs as journalists. And so i dont think its basically getting into their heads and becoming empathetic so much as shining a light and seeing what it is theyre saying. Also we can reflect, i can, as a columnist on what their rhetoric and their policies, and that includes the president , what effect that will have on all americans. I do believe after trump was elected when folks were saying its economic anxiety and we bent off and looked for those examples of white folks who voted for him, that there was a reluctance to say underneath that may have been the resentment of a first black president. It may have been a certain tribalism and were coming to that now. I think we have to walk that line. Quote folks accurately. Take into consideration their concerns. But also, you know, every journalist frames their story. We are not immune either. We bring our experiences as well. We have to be honest about that. Be balanced about that but also wise and not be distracted by convention. Dont be distracted by that and dont frame it in a way. Look at our own biases. I think we we cant basically dismiss all the concerns from the candidates that we may be biased. We should discern what it is what that kernel is. Adam, ill go to you. It was striking this week to see Bernie Sanders call out the washington post, to see joe biden say his his team say, look, the coverage of the gaffes is totally disproportionate given who the president is. Is the left catching onto this accusation of bias . Is it warranted . No, i think these are two distinct lines of criticism. I want to say i disagree with biden and sanders assessment of press bias against them. Bidens verbal errors are newsworthy and sanders accusation that the reporters at the post are following bezos marching orders. I think that in general the left has been critical of the media for a long time. Its a criticism of emphasis, of framing and sometimes of facts. As far as critiques of the media is an anger and frustration at the mainstreams press. Unwillingness to necessarily create the same replicate the same alternate reality that trump and his supporters live in verbatim in the way pro trump outlets do. I think those are two different critiques. Different in nature, different in substance. I wouldnt necessarily say i agree with either biden or sanders critiques in this particular instance. Youre saying asmet trick polarization. Stick around. The white house is taking action against a reporter by officially suspending brian karems hard pass for 30 days. He states, i wont be the first and the les. White house press sect Stephanie Grisham has remained silent. A reminder, it has been 160 days since weve had a formal oncamera press briefing. Up next, cnns chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is being investigat investigated. She joins us next and you dont want to miss this. Motor . Its pronounced motour. For those who were born to ride, theres progressive. Its pronounced motour. Cdc guidance recommends topical pain relievers first. Like salonpas patch large. Its powerful, fdaapproved to relieve moderate pain for up to 12 hours, yet nonaddictive and gentle on the body. Salonpas. Its good medicine. Hisamitsu. Trust us. Us kids are ready to take things into our own hands. Dont think so . Hold my pouch. At tmobile, for 40 line for four lines, its all included for the whole family. Like unlimited with netflix on us. And now with each new line, get one of our latest smartphones included. 40 line for four lines and smartphones are included for the whole family. Welcome back. Cnns chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is fresh off a stunning months long investigation into putins private army. Exposing russias mull hi prong presence in the region as well as links to kremlin cronies. She struck a nerve because a saminute video surfaced on a russian propaganda site showing surveillance of ward and her team. Clarissa ward joins us from where she is on assignment. Congratulations on a truly investigative report. Youve covered some of the worlds most dangerous conflicts but has anything like this happened to you before and did you feel in danger . Thank you, john, for having me on and saying that about our investigation. I have been to a lot of dangerous places. I have been the victim of propaganda and disinformation campaigns in the past. But this was certainly unique. This was a highly produced 15minute video in which it was cleared we were being followed, we were be men said i paid them to say bad things about russia. This is deeply disconcerting, the fact that we were being followed. While we were in the Central African republic, the deeper we started to dig in, john, and as we went out to the area where the mines are to look at russia presence in the diamond mines, we found ourselves being followed by a car full of White Russian males. That really was deeply disconcerting because it was just a year ago that three russian journalists who were pursuing the same story about mercenary activity, russian mercenary activity were ambushed and killed. While this may have been just about intimidation, it certainly gave us pause for thought and concern about our safety as well. And it hasnt stopped. I should add. Just today another report from the same group surfaced, demanding that we admit to paying bribes and lying and threatening us with legal action in some countries if we do not do that, john. Thats the convey they play ball. Not the way we do. Its evidence of how close you cut to the bone of the kremlin, especially putins chef, who is funding putins in central republic as well as Internet Research agency for which he was sanctioned by the u. S. Do you believe the chef is acting at putins behest . Broadly speaking a lot of analysts would say no way he could be doing what hes doing around the World Without the direct blessing of the russian president , vladimir putin. And i think part of the reason we struck such a nerve is that very few western journalists have actually gone to the Central African republic. This is an incredibly poor, wartorn nation that has been largely forgotten by the worlds media. Once we were there on the ground, we were able to see how it worked, john. Essentially he is sponsoring the mercenary muscle but hes also in charge of the company that is doing the mining in those diamond mines. And hes in charge of these i wouldnt call them news sites but websites pumping out propaganda and particularly that pernicious Smear Campaign against us. Clearly we were talking about something they didnt want us to be talking about. In terms of the direct relation isship between he and putin, nobody rns the exact relation slip but everybody agrees theres no way he could be doing this without the blessing of the president. Its extraordinary to see you outline that closed loop between the business, the intimidation and the sites disseminating disinformation. Clarissa ward, thank you very much. When we come back, an exclusive report from the global Disinformation Index about how advertisers are unwittingly blank rolling hate news and fake news sites. Well take a look at the lucrative disinformation economy. All Money Managers might seem the same, but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. Fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. Some only call when they have something to sell. Fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. And while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. Fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. Maybe thats why most of our clients come from other Money Managers. Fisher investments. Clearly better money management. The disinformation economy is thriving, according to a new report obtained by cnn ahead of its release. In a sweeping look at a nearly 20,000 domains suspected of forming the public, they peg revenue from promisetic ads placed on these sites at 235 million annually. Thats a quarter of a billion dollars at a conservative estimate. The gdi called the tally just the tip of the iceberg. Heres one example of what we might call a misplaced ad. A clothing label advertising next to an article about how kim trails can, quote, infect men with homosexualithomosexuality. Not a thing. A well insured article about a sandy hook conspiracy theory. That Insurance Company has broken ties with some lights on gdis list. Here to discuss the startling numbers is chief text nolgs is dan. How are these numbers just the tip of the iceberg . We took our catalog of about 20,000 sites weve collected we assess having a risk of disinforming the public. Among those we took a sampling and measured a number of different aspects of those sites including the traffic, the ad tech ecosystem elements in which they interact and tried to make as conservative an estimate as possible on things like how much money they make per visitor and what those traffic numbers this is at least that number. We should say some numbers are outright fraudulent. Some are catering to the extremes and some ugly elements of human nature and others label themselves as satire but thir to skirt the rules. Some label it as satire because it lets them get away from sending toxic narratives and saying were only kidding. Its clear theyre not kidding or theres no way to tell the difference. Fascinating. Matt, breitbart traffic has dropped significantly since 2016. Take a look at this. They were enormously influential. Traffic has fallen off. Thats in part because of the work yall have done. Thats not your word for it. Thats steve bannon. Lets take a listen to what he said in a recent documentary. This group called sleeping giants, a group of tech executives, they literally stripped out they took the 35 exchanges that saw the ads and they went away so ad revenue dropped 90 . How unwitting are advertisers when their ads end up on articles they want nothing to do with but theyre, in fact, subsidizing. Theyre not very aware at all, to be honest. When sleeping giants got started in 2016, it became really apparent right away that advertisers were not aware of showing up on the site next to articles like hoisted high and proud, the Confederate Flag proclaims the glorious heritage. We let them know and they left. As steve bannon said they lost 90 of their ad revenue. We count 4300 advertisers have left publicly the site. Basically steve bannon is telling the truth, if he is, 90 of advertisers have left and they were pulling in 3 million from free advertisers that didnt know they were on that site. That shows you something is really broken in ad tech. I want to ask both of you, what do you i think this the next steps are that the platforms need to take . Well start with you, danny. So, you know, its partly the platforms and partly the advertisers themselves. They often as matt said, they dont actually know where their ads are ending up in this programatic world. They really have to demand of the platforms more transparency and more ability to block those sites and block whatever it is they end up paying for. Because these are the folks that pay for the internet. They have right now in this, you know, distributed ad tech ecosystem very little say over what theyre paying for. I think given the choice, they would actively choose to not subsidize this kind of content, but right now they dont have the choice. So with great power comes great responsibility, as one said. Matt, give me your concise solution to this problem. What do you think advertisers need to be doing and the platforms themselves . I think dannys right. Some of it lies within ad tech and some lies within the customers that are buying the ads on the internet. Google and facebook are, you know, two of the biggest players. They basically have a duoply. Theres no competition. Theres no regulation. Even if something breaks there in terms of service, its pretty clear theyre not taking action and removing those sites from their ad network. It becomes incumbent upon advertisers to do something about it. They dont have the tools to do it so they unwittingly not just show up once but three times on sites they dont want to be on. It comes down to advertisers for a long time they viewed media as reaching frequency and now they it doesnt only make them look bad but its bad for society if theyre funding hate and disinformation and harassment. Its called enlightenment selfinterest. Thank you very much. Coming up, facebook is consolidating, whatsapp and instagram. Disinformation wars online, what are Tech Companies doing to contain the chaos . This comes as a wall street journal report says Major Companies are avoiding posting to real news sites to put their ad near controversial content. With me to discuss is dodi and cnn senior media reporter oliver darcy. I know youve been doing a lot of reporting on the disinformation economy. I want to quickly get your take on that stunning quarter of a billion dollars report we just released exclusively from gdi. I think when we think about disinformation, there are multiple factors that encourage it and are behind it. Weve spoken the past three years about the political, ideological state, what we saw with russia posting disinformation. What we havent talked a lot about and which was referenced in the global disinformation report is the financial. There are people out there, whether its in macedonia, the philippines, anywhere around the world, runnin