Enough for fox news and rush limbaugh. My dinner. Six hours ill never forget. You wont believe what he said and didnt say about Osama Bin Laden. That and much more so stick around. The fbi says that north korea is behind the massive hack of sony pictures. And its all about seth rogen and his latest movie the interview, the movie about a comedy about a cia plot to kill north koreas kim jongun. What has happened in the last few days is deadly serious. There has been another email threat against sony promising more cyber devastation if every trace of the movie isnt taken down. Yesterday the president said sony was wrong. Sonys a corporation, it suffered significant damage. There were threats against its employees. I am sympathetic to the concerns that they faced. Having said all that, yes, i think they made a mistake. We cannot have a society in which some dictator some place can start imposing censorship here in the United States. Because if somebody is able to intimidate folks out of releasing a satirical movie, imagine what they start doing when they see a documentary they dont like or news reports that they dont like. Or even worse, imagine if producers and distributors and others start engaging in self censorship because they dont want to offend the sensibilities of somebody whose sensibilities probably need to be offended. Sonys ceo Michael Lynton responded to the president in a sit down with fareed zakaria. Here is what he had to say. The president says sony made a mistake in pulling the film. Did you make a mistake . No. I think actually the unfortunate part is in this instance the president , the press, and the public are mistaken as to what actually happened. We do not own movie theaters. We cannot determine whether or not a movie will be played in movie theaters. So, to sort of rehearse for a moment the sequence of events. We experienced the worst cyber attack in american history, and persevered for 3 1 2 weeks under enormous stress and enormous difficulty, and all with the effort of trying to keep our business up and running and get this movie out into the public. When it came to the crucial moment when a threat came out from what was called the g. O. P. At the time, threatening audiences who would go to the movie theaters, the movie theaters came to us, one by one, over the course of a very short period of time, we were completely surprised by it, and announced that they would not carry the movie. At that point in time we had no alternative but to not proceed with the theatric release on the 25th of december. Thats all we did. So you have not caved. We have not caved. We have not given in. We have not backed down. We have always had every desire to have the American Public see this movie. You can see more of Fareed Zakarias interview at 10 00 a. M. Sunday here on cnn. The feds say they know who hacked sony. The question is what should the United States do . Its a complex question. The cyber attack strikes at the heart of something we hold dear, freedom of speech. But make no mistake this was an attack, and it begs for a counter attack. The president says the u. S. Will act. They caused a lot of damage. And we will respond. We will respond proportionally and will respond in a place and time and manner that we choose. Its not something that i will announce here today in a press conference. My view, we should give the North Koreans a touch of their own medicine. The u. S. Has a robust cyber warfare capability. Lets use it. Remember the virus that was let loose on the iranian facility that produces you rain yam. We should use that against the North Koreans, thats my opinion. Tom ridge knows much more about this subject than i. Hes the former governor of the great state of pennsylvania and served as the nations first secretary of homeland security. Governor, thanks for being here. What should be the response . I think you raise a couple of interesting points. Lets take the unique relationship we have with the u. N. , a diplomatic response. Its a dead end. Economic response, no relationships. Another dead end. Certainly not a kinetic response. Were not going to launch a military attack to respond. Were really left to a Cyber Response, so i think give at any unique place that north korea is in the world and our estranged relationship with them, i would be i think the president s options are limited. And i think it has to be a Cyber Response but again, well just see what it is. I think there is a much bigger issue, frankly, that at some point in time we have to say to ourselves were going to do everything we can to protect and defend the country, but do we as a country now begin to draw a red line in the sand and say this is a new era of warfare, cyber war going on every day. If we can hold you if we can attribute an attack we want to hold you accountable so what are the consequences, not only to north korea but whats the doctrine, the strategy, whats the red line that we tell the rest of the world, the United States will not tolerate those digital attacks, digital incursions into the United States of america be it toward our government enterprise or private enterprise. Im not surprised to hear you say that this demands a firm response, both because i know you but also because of annie say you wrote its time to shake off shadow of Neville Chamberlain and confront the bully s. This the situation where the u. S. You expect will take some action but never announce what it was and frankly, never even acknowledge that they did it, much like the israelis . I think thats a possibility. I do think that the president s options are quite limited. Its not as if economic sanctions would work. Were certainly not going to the u. N. And complain. Hes limited to some kind of Cyber Response. And whether or not he chooses to announce that ill leave that up to the discretion of the president. But i think his options are limited. More importantly whatever they are he has to use one and it has to be significant. There have to be consequences to this direct brutal attack against private enterprise in the u. S. Of america if they were offended by our freedom of speech so be it. If you are easily offended we understand but it doesnt warrant this kind of destruction of our intellectual property and in a the internet may not have borders but we do. We have a value system. You controls our borders and try to undermine our value system we respond. Knowing what you know of the global picture is it your hunch that the North Koreans acted alone or had snans. Its interesting that you ask that. My first reaction michael, was this had to be an insider. I cant believe any country would be so thin skinned to be offended by what a comedy. I dont know how theread a comedic situation but somebody thought it was a good idea but again, this is unusual because the government itself has attributed the attack to another government. Often we have revelations where private sector is called in by other entities, trace the Digital Network back to an offender and name a nation. My recollection we dont normally call out another country. In this instance we did. And since we called them throughout have to be consequences. The president said on friday he thinks that sony made a mistake. Tom ridge think that sony made a mistake . I agree. They should have shown it whether the theaters, whether they were packed or they had to remain open. I happen to agree. I think that if we are going to blink because someone threatens us because they dont like a point of view that we have expressed, then they have already won. Its a terrorist attack f. They intimidated us by a threat then its a terrorist attack and they achieved the consequences that they sought initially and we dont sol rate that in the United States. Were more resill yanlt, bigger, stronger and im hopeful that the thopt he may have limited options uses one with the consequences are dire because its not only a signal to north korea but we need to send a signal to our digital adversaries around globe. Well do everything we can to protect and defend ourselves. Thats our first instinct, our first mission. We also understand that well never be failsafe. That there will be attacks and attackers that penetrate even the most sophisticated machine. Under those circumstances there needs to be an approach, a red line that says if this is what you do to us, and the consequences are such and such, you be prepared for responsive action. Final question. I ask you this given that you were the first secretary of the department of homeland security. For a long time youve been sounding the alarm tryingsound the alarm about vulnerability to cyber attack. Okay. In this instance its the movie industry. What other sector of american life, government or private sector, does tom ridge most worry about . I think weve got multiple sectors but i think you do worry about the Financial Services sector, energy, telecommunications, transportation. They are all vital to us. At the end of the day you can imagine the disruption of the financial payment system, attacks on the grid, so they are all potentially vulnerable in the digital. The digital sun is never going to set. The heats going to get stronger and hotter in the years and the decades ahead so and its going to be more complex, the adversaries are getting more sophisticated. Thats all the more reason for this president to send a message not only to north korea but the broader global community. You attack us, we can attribute to you, there will be consequences. Hopefully the consequences Strong Enough it will be a deterrent to future attacks. Governor ridge, thank you as always for your time. Great pleasure. Nice being with you. What is north korea trying to accomplish with this mother of a all hacks and willing to expose themselves to the retribution of the most powerful nation on earth. My next guest, gordon change the author of nuclear showdown. North korea takes on the worldment he is also a columnist for the daily beast. Good to have you. 30 rock, team america, all examples of north korea being butt of jokes that didnt draw this reaction. What is it about a stoner movie, a seth rogen film, that you think so incensed the North Koreans . A couple things at work. If irs i think north korean regime is more insecure than it was in the past. Something is going to get their attention. It was the interview. This is a story about the assassination of the north Korean Leader and this, if it were known in north korea this were possible, might inspire people. Copy cats. Certainly copy cats. What they were worried about was not the release in the u. S. Because North Koreans dont go to an amc in omaha, but south korean activists were talking about taking dvds, putting them in balloons, lofting those across the Demilitarized Zone and then having north korean citizens watch them. I think that was something that at this time of insecurity, that is what got their attention. That assumes capability on the foort have a dvr player to be able to watch it. I want to ask gordon something else. The level of sophistication of this attack really surprised me. I dont mean the technical aspects, i mean the street smarts for lack of a better description, for whoever was responsible to know okay, they got this treasuretrove of ema email, to know what to release, that would get the most attention in the American Media and around the globe. Did you think about that . There are two things. I think that is something important and one of the things here is that the North Koreans are very bold. And so i think that they have a good handle on us. We say that this is an isolated hermit kingdom. They are clued in. They see us as their primary adversary. They want to know what makes us tick. Im not surprised in a sense they knew that. There was a Technical Expertise beyond what most thought north korea could do. The northh korean, there is evidence that the chinese were involved on attacks on season sew clearly the North Koreans were up to speed and doing state of the art work. An example of what im thinking of. The art of war aspect of this. Clooney said that he thinks that the racially tinged emails were the first to be released, so that there wouldnt be folks rushing to the support of sony once this issue got out. Nobody wanted to be associated with that so why are we going to speak in support. Do you think that they were so sophisticated. The North Koreans that said okay, weve got this, what are we going to drop first. Go with the race card. I think so. North koreans talk about race. They say they are the purest race, and this is very important for them. They understand our Race Relations to a greater extent than we think they do. As i said im not surprised that they were able to take the most inflammatory portions of the email and release that. They are very good at this. Remember, propaganda is really been the forte of the kim family. From 1948 since the founding of the north korean state. Are we limited because we know so little about them, because Dennis Rodman is the only american we can rely on for insights about this guy . I dont think were limited. I think there are a number of things we can do beyond a cyber attack. We know that the north korean regime depends on flows of money. If we cut them off weve seen what happens. In 2005 when the Bush Administration put financial sanctions in place it affected the regime. There are things. We are not without tools in this area. And especially with regard to the sale of ballistic missiles, Nuclear Weapons technology, that the North Koreans sell to the iranians with chinas help. We cut that off that would have a big effect on the ejeem. Then the ruler wouldnt have the support of the other people. Final question. I asked this of secretary ridge, ill ask it of gordon change. The chinese, think they were vofrled . Definitely were involved. Those were routed tli chinese ip addresses. China has the great fire wall t most sophisticated controls nobody could have been able to do this without chinas knowledge. Got to remember that north koreas most sophisticated cyber attackers are not in north korea, they are in the chinese city of schenn yong. Some think that they were involved. So china one way or another was complicit. Nice to have had you here. I had you on the radio. Thanks for your expertise. Thank you. Well take a short break. If the North Koreans did this to sony what else can they do . A former fbi Cyber Security expert joins me next. The Holiday Season is here, which means its time for the volkswagen signthendrive event. For practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a germanengineered volkswagen. Like the sporty, advanced new jetta. And the 2015 motor trend car of the year allnew golf. If youre wishing for a new volkswagen this season. Just about all you need is a finely tuned. Pen. Get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first months payment on select new volkswagen models. And quit a lot,ot but ended up nowhere. Now. I use this. The nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release Technology Helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. I want this time to be my last time. Thats why i choose nicoderm cq. And cialis for daily useor you. Helps you be Ready Anytime the moment is right. Cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. Side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. To avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30tablet trial. I can. Order safety goggles. Play music for seedlings. Post science fair projects. Schedule guinea pig feedings. Video chemical reactions. Take pics of mr. Bones. Time the next launch. Calm down principal jones. I can do all that with my android from tracfone. 90day plans start as low as 20. Unbeatable nationwide coverage. No contract. For a limited time save 20 on the new unimax maxpatriot. Now just 49. 99. Tracfone. Do everything for less. Cyber terrorism its a scary word particularly the terrorism part. Finding the people responsible and stopping them is no easy task. When it comes to the cyber part, its even harder. One man who knows how hard it is is sean hennry, the president of crowd Strike Services and a former fbi executive assistant director who oversaw computer crime investigations all over the world. Shawn, do you think the North Koreans have the capability to do this themselves . Well, i think they do, only because i dont know that these types of attacks are as complicated as many people seem to believe that they are. We see lots of organizations, i worked when i was in the bureau overseeing thousands of hacks into major organizations, i worked in hundreds of them with crowd strike. Its not that hard to get into many of these networks. Because they are so broad, so vast, the adversaries are developing new capabilities but a government like north korea, they have got training, they have resources, they have got intent and when they are developing their skills, as they are as other nation state