There, going back to i think its called celtx secular normalization im all for a secular gang. Thank you all for being here and thank you for spending part of your day with us. Lets see it right back here next week hello everyone and welcome to the amanpour, hour. Heres where were headed this week the clandestine conflict between iran and israel erupts into the open could it get any worse my intel briefing from britains former spy chief said john sores, we need to recognize that this shadow war between israel, iran has going on for a good number of years now. Also this out, this looks like something youd see out of hitlers germany why are maga Republicans Parroting plutons propaganda . Its so outlandish. Its so wrong. And in many ways, then check president petra pawel wounds the United States that are lost for ukraine means a loss for the whole of europe and us assistance who has helped to Ukraine Cannot be replaced. Also this hour, the ukrainian maestro at the met on unity through music, fighting for the freedom makes us to feel Everything Deepa, ever sink more emotionally. Plus y an election in india is so crucial to americas relationship with china. And from my archive, the nuclear deal, trump and netanyahu pulled out of that heightens the day singer in the middle east today welcome to the program, everyone, im christiana one poor in london, and we begin with the wider war that nobody wants the United States has not been involved in any offensive operations what were focused on, what the g7 is focused on. And again, its reflected in our statement and in our conversation is our work to deescalate tensions after being warned by its allies to avoid further escalation, the us says, israel carried out a strike inside iran on friday iran downplayed the impact of what appears to be a fairly limited strike after its air defenses intercepted three drones with no reports of a Missile Attack. And iranian official told reuters there was no plan to respond at this point. All this came less than a week after iran launched an unprecedented attack on israel in response to a strike on its Embassy Compound in syria former israeli general tommy or hyman, who once was head of intelligence for the idf, told me israel had miscalculated on both hamas and iran i think the intelligent they idf intelligence was wrong in the october for not detecting the hamas intention and it was wrong about assuming what will be the iranian response. Those are two mistakes, no doubt about it with israel and he runs decades as long shadow war now playing out in the open. The rules of the game in the middle east are being rewritten. I spoke with britains former top spy about the situation just before fridays strike. So john suarez, welcome back to our program. Thank you very much, chris, here what do you think at the end of this very, very tense week, josep borrell, as all the leaders are meeting to try to figure out in europe and whats happening has said that we are on the edge of a cliff. Do you agree . I think id maybe slightly overstating it is a very tense time at the moment after the israeli strike in damascus and the very heavy iranian response, we need to bear in mind that iranian response was a failure therell be disappointed in tehran that a tiny fraction only of their a barrage of missiles and drones only a very few got through. I didnt really cause any damage at all to israel. I think Prime Minister netanyahu is feeling pretty comfortable at the moment just two or three weeks ago we were all talking about the disasters in gaza, the failure of the relative thats a failure of the israeli offensive. There and the bombing of the humanitarian convoy. Hes changed the subject. So what do you think is a manageable next step if there is such a thing, first of all, we need to recognize that this shadow war between israel, iran has been going on for a good number of years now the latest round of this was the israeli strike in damascus, which took a lot of people by surprise, including the United States administration. I think it shot the iranians as well because it was a sort of escalation to attack a designated diplomatic building, even though it was being used as a headquarters the revolutionary yards, i think israel made a strategic misjudgment. They thought they could live alongside a hamascontrolled gaza seven october demonstrated they could not, while theyre living alongside a hizballah controlled lebanon theyre living alongside popping iranian controlled syria, but a syria in which iran has a substantial foothold now, i dont think the Israeli Security chiefs, the people i used to work there mossad and shin bet and so on will be ready to tolerate this indefinitely and theyll say, if not, now, then when. But i think the politics point to a gradual step forward rather than a major escalation. And i just wonder your Security Interlocutors over the years, many of them have publicly said that actually israels most existential threat is the continued lack of a political resolution that would bring security between israel and the palestinian. Do you think now is you look at this morass that theyre in in gaza that that option is still on the table for for israel, there has to be an option for a political solution. There was a Common Ground between Prime Minister netanyahu and hamas in that neither wanted a twoState Solution. They both wanted a one State Solution. But hamas wanted one State Solution with no israel. And israel wanted a one State Solution, but no palestinians and i think either course is a recipe for really serious problems. So we gotta get back to the concept of a twoState Solution. I think it is conceivable. It is possible to get there so that has to be addressed. But israel does have to also address its direct security is security demands you say theres general is saying you have to finish the job in gaza. Im not so sure about that, actually, i think israel succeeded in reducing gaza to rubble. That a success. It will exactly. Thats not exactly a success. They havent secured the release of the remaining hostages were still live. They havent killed the hamas commanders. Theyve caused no mass mountains, humanitarian suffering. Frankly, i think from the israeli point of view, they can change the subject. They can switch to iran and hizballah and just call it a day in a really in gaza, i think that is conceivable. But the alternative christiane is if the israelis do go back into, in a big way into raffa to take on the last of the hamas battalions. Yes, theres a Security Logic to it, but will they actually achieve any more than they achieved already . Im very skeptical. I think hamas will be able to reconstitute its military forces. Therell be plenty of volunteers, four hamas battalions emerging out of this aza, this conflict, and then the only real answer to both gaza and the west bank is to have a, a, an authority of palestinian leadership, which takes responsibility for those territories in the concept of a context of working towards a palestinian state, which lives alongside a secure and Peaceful Israel now, onto the other major or maybe unloved war, right now on ukraine. Yeah, our ukrainian sky. And the sky of our neighbors deserve the same security. And i thank everyone who also perceives our need for security as a need for equal security for all, because all lives are equally valuable and he made the obvious point that of course theyre not nature but noise, noise, israel, nato. So this stuff can be done. Now, i dont know your view on that, but your view on The Americans who, as we speak are getting ready to bring this aid bill finally to the floor of congress. Ukrainian armed forces have done a remarkable job holding the russians have baby, initially pushing them back. But the logic of a a war between a major country with 140 Million People and a Big Industrial base. Again, its a mediumsized country thats beginning to tell and what has kept ukraine going has been International Support is being above all, Financial Support from the europeans and even more critically, Military Support mainly from the United States. And sadly, the delay in approving further Military Support a budget for support for ukraine has enabled russia to get on the front foot in ukraine, its meant the Ukrainian Forces have been much more cautious about using what limited material they have at the moment, i think the i hope the vote in the house will be successful. The money will be approved. I think it will be give a very big boost two to zelenskyy and so the whole of americas ally, allies around europe. And it will be a big setback for president putin. You can hear some of the maga republicans literally spouting russian propaganda, nazis this, i mean, its really like word for word, bertins playbook and is disinformation machine. Theres frequent pictures all over anybody can find them of nazis here they are i mean, these people are literally speaking from putins playbook you know, the issues around trump and his affinity for, for putin. I want to ask him finally jd vance was a senator very close trump ally is essentially now writing its going to have to give up its territory to russia. And were just going to have to move forward. That plus, ukraine, russia doesnt matter as much to us as israel well. First of all, i friend the series, misjudgment to say that russia doesnt matter. Russia is the biggest single threat to European Security and North Atlantic security. I know china is a big strategic threat and it is the most important competition for the next for the rest of the century. But if youre looking at the next decade or two, the Real Security threat comes from russia it was flat wrong to think in terms of russia not being a threat. You have to recognize that russia is led by a very autocratic, allpowerful figure who has gone into his head that somehow ukraine is should be part of russia. He is undermined all the principles of the United Nations charter and is quite clearly seemed to be doing that so weve got to defend ourselves against him and the vote in the house representatives to renew support for ukraine is going to really important in this so john, so thank you very much indeed. Thank you, christiane coming up later on the show, trumps former Defense Secretary on the danger of maga, republicans buying into putins propaganda then 1 billion people decide the future of one of americas most important allies but first, the european president , taking matters into his own hands to restock ukraines critically low ammunition supplies great teammates trust each other. Were going to do a trust falls stand up, you close your eyes. Ill say before trust what youre suddenly up doc i told you it was a dummy the right mattress makes everything clear i know how to repair my relationship with my father. The right Mattress Matters will find yours. Its the friends and family sale. 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You probably have heard that the Defense Secretary and United States, lloyd austin has said that russia is beginning to make incremental gains. Its moving onto the front foot and its beginning to really presses advantage. Now that for instance, ukraine doesnt have the max hurricane aid, how much of a difference will it make for you and your effort and for ukraine . If the house passes this aid bill on saturday night, while we all hope that this bill will be passed on saturday because us assistance who has helped to Ukraine Cannot be replaced placed europe is doing increasingly more and more european nations are taking responsibility. But the United States still provide at least 50 of it. So thats why we all count on, wright american decision. What do you make of some of the senators even . Im. Not just the Congress People who are in this sort of trump what we call the maga group of of trump republicans in congress, senators like jd vance of ohio who has been ever since the munich security conference, essentially making a case that ukraine doesnt matter essentially that it should just surrender and give land to russia i believe that ukraine is equally important for europe as it is for United States and the rest of the world. Because its not just about the defense of sovereign country and its territory its about the principles. These principles matter for the United States. The same way as for us. If russia succeeds in ukraine then the whole Transatlantic Community will no