His son, marine lieutenant robert kelly, was killed in action in afghanistan in 2010. It was a devastating loss for him and his wife karen. Of a parents loss of a child, shakespeare once wrote, grief feels the room up, lies in his bed, walks up and down with me, unquote. And i know its clear to all who know john kelly and karen kelly that a robert is a constant presence in their lives, john kerry has been reluctant to speak publicly about the very personal and distressing loss i had suffered, but given the political fights about President Trumps false charge that president obama never called the familys of the fallen, and then later in the week, the charge by a democratic congresswoman that trump himself was insensitive when he called a grieving widow earlier this week, kelly obviously felt he needed to explain his behind the scenes conversations with President Trump. Lending advice to the president that someone who knew best how those families were feeling from both ends of that phone call, and those visits, starting with whether President Trump should even make a tradition of making these phone calls. When i took this job and talked to President Trump about how to do it, my first recommendation was he not do it. Because its not the phone call that parents, Family Members are looking forward to. Its nice to do in my opinion, in any event. Kelly also gave some clarity on whether president obama called him and his wife after their son robert was killed in twen in afghanistan, its a point that President Trump used to defend himself earlier this the week. He asked me about previous president s, and i said i can tell you that president obama, who was my commander in chief when i was on active duty, did not call my family. That was not a criticism. Kelly shared with the president privately and then remarkably with the rest of us today, that awful moment in twen when he was called by his friend, general dunford who bore and then broke the horrible news about robert. Let me tell you what my best friend, joe dunford told me, because he was my casualty officer. He said, kell, he was doing exactly what he wanted to do when he was killed. He knew what he was getting into by joining that 1 . He knew what the possibilities were. Because were at war. And when he died, and the four cases were talking about niger, my sons case in afghanistan, when he died he was surrounded by the best men on this earth, his friends. Thats what the president tried to say to four families the other day. He knew what he was getting into. Thats what general dunford told general kelly about robert and it was the message that President Trump tried to convey to the widow of Sergeant La David Johnson on tuesday. He was killed ed iniger. According to fred re ka wilson who heard the call, that message that attempt of consolation was obviously not received the way that President Trump intended it. Kelly expressed shock today at how congresswoman wilson shared this information. I was stunned when i came to work yesterday morning and brokenhearted at what i saw a member of congress doing. Member of congress who listened in on a phone call from the president of the United States to a young wife. And in his way, tried to express that opinion, he was a brave man, fallen hero. He knew what he was getting himself into because he enlisted. Theres no reason to enlist. He enlisted. And he was where he wanted to be, exactly where he wanted to be with exactly the people he wanted to be with when his life was taken. That was the message that was the message that was transmitted. Joining me now is Major General james spider marks, spent 30 years in the u. S. Army, former pentagon spokesman, john kirby, and also with us, cnn White House Correspondent sarah murray. Sarahs question to President Trump on monday is what sparked all of this. Admiral kirby, let me start with you, what did you make of john kelly, his comments and his how angry he was at the congresswoman . Im not surprised. I mean, you can tell that this was very emotional for him. This wasnt just the chief of staff advising the president of the United States, it was a gold star dad as you introduced in terms of what his personal experiences were. A lot of that comes with him. Im not surprised that he is, that hes as bitter as he is about the way that it came out, but i do think, and nobody can question his loyalty or service to the country or his bravery. Nothing i ever did in the navy comes even close. That said, hes a political figure now. And it wasnt congresswoman wilson who politicized this, it was President Trump who politicized this by making it into a competition with president obama. You mean initially. Yes, initially. You dont think congresswoman wilson politicized this at all . I think she contributed but he got it started. Thats what i meant. So, you know, i hope that the other person listening to that press conference this afternoon was the commander in chief because some of those messages, i hope, hit home to him too. Spider marks, in addition to serving, your fatherinlaw was killed in vietnam in july 1972 at the time he wasnt your fatherinlaw, he was your dads best friend, but obviously your wife is a gold star daughter. You have also additionally lost men in combat. How does this whole controversy strike you . Well, its immensely personal on multiple levels as john kirby laid out. And absolutely correct, when you get up on the high road, theres precious little traffic. I think we should all get up on the high road, this thing has been politicized, it needs to stop. This is a great patriot who lost his life and as john kelly described and he is cloaked in a former cabinet position, hes cloaked in the uniform of a four star, hes cloaked most importantly in this case his uniform of a father. And i think what we all need to do is just say look, this is an incredibly unfortunate incident and lets focus in on the operations in niger and what can that unified command, africa command, the department of defense, and what they can do with special ops command figure out what was the purpose of that operation . What were they doing there . Why were there so many resources that were shorted and not available to better assess the situation and to put those young men into a situation where they had a fighting chance, but we didnt do that. It was in fact i think the short story on this is we were going to figure out there was an intelligence failure. There truly is, jake, and i dont mean to walk away. There is an incredible personal face on all of this. And well talk about niger later in the show. Sarah, general kelly was obviously addressing this today because this whole controversy began with comments President Trump made in the rose garden on monday. Does the white house really feel that President Trump is entirely blameless in this controversy . Which is not to say that congresswoman wilson or individual members of the media or anyone else is above criticism, but does the white house really think that when President Trump first said he makes phone calls, but president obama didnt, that that didnt start the ball rolling on this whole unfortunate situation . Well jake, i can tell you theyve been extremely defensive about this. Theyre defensive about questions like the one i asked the president on monday, just why havent we heard from you on this . This is the deadliest combat incident involving u. S. Soldiers since this president has been in office. Its very uncharacteristic to not hear from the president on anything thats in the news, much less something as heart breaking, devastating as losing four american soldiers in a situation like this, thats what sparked this, thats what sort of sparked the incident of political score boarding, the president suggesting that obama and other president s didnt make calls as frequently as he did and eventually thats what got us to this controversy over the president s conversation with this widow, but the white house has basically said that the president did what he needed to do. That his spokeswoman went out there, addressed the fact that there was a loss of u. S. Life that we lost american soldiers, the day after this happened, they shared the information they could at the time. They said that they felt that was sufficient. They felt it was necessary to do it from a podium in the Briefing Room rather than through a written statement that it would elevate it. And they do believe that the president was essentially just trying to do his best to call these Family Members and to express his condolences, and i think one of the things that was telling in what general kelly was saying is that he advised the president not to make these calls. That he said theres nothing youre going to be able to do that lightens the burden on the families and frankly he said in his situation when he lost his son, was the only thing was hearing from his sons buddies. They werent upset according to general kelly they didnt hear from obama. It wasnt particularly important. I want to play one of the sound bytes from general kelly in the control room, general kelly talked a great deal about the decent graduation of american traditions. And how nothing seemed important or sacred anymore. Heres part of that. It stuns me that a member of congress would have listened in on that conversation. Absolutely stuns me. And i thought, at least that was sacred. John. Yeah, look, i was surprised when i heard representative wilson go out and describe the call publicly like that. That surprised me. That typically it is a very private affair between a family and an official like that. That said, apparently she was in the car and the family put the call on speaker. And thats not the congresswomans fault. The family obviously was comfortable having her in the presence, in their presence when they took that call and put it on speaker. So i think we need to be careful before we accuse representative wilson of sort of intruding and getting, you know, listening device or something inappropriate there. If i could address a little bit of the sacred comments, and on this, with all do respect to general kelly who is a far better member of the military than i ever was. I dont agree that things arent sacred anymore. I mean, he talked about women. I think that women still struggled in the 1950s and 60s, im not saying things are perfect now, its not as if, you know, everything is so much worse now than it was before. Same with religion. I mean, this country Still Believes and still patrol fesses freedom of religion, and im proud of that. And on the gold star families, again, im not a gold star Family Member, but from what ive seen over the last couple of days, thanks in part to the Media Coverage and the exposure theyve been given as a result of the president s actions is pretty clear to me that america wraps their arms around military families. We take that seriously. General marks, you know general kelly, i want you to take a listen as a part of his remarks today that were really i guess aimed at educating the public, he talks a lot about, hes not wrong for doing so, i think hes right. 1 of the dharnt sacrifices and serves in the military in the 99 of us that often take it for granted, and he took it the opportunity at the top of his remarks to educate people about how fallen soldiers, Fallen Heroes, come home. Lets listen to that. Most americans dont know what happens when we lose one of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, coast guardsmen in combat, let me tell you what happens. Their bowed i dids wrapped them up in whatever passes as a shroud, puts them on a helicopter as a routine and sends him home. Their first stop along the way is when theyre packed in ice, typically at the airhead, and then theyre flown to usually europe. Where theyre then packed and iced again and flown to Dover Air Force base where dover takes care of the remains, embalms them, meticulously dresses them in their uniform with the medals that theyve earned, the emblems of their service, and then puts them on another airplane linked up with the casualty officer escort that takes them home. A very, very good movie to watch if you havent ever seen it is taking chance where this is done in a movie, hbosetting, Chance Phelps was killed under my command right next to me. A casualty officer typically goes to the home, very early in the morning and waits for the first lights to come on. And then he knocks on the door, typically the mom and dad will answer, wife. And if there is a wife, this is happening in two different places, if the parents are divorced, three different places. And if the casualty officer proceeds to break the heart of a Family Member. And stays with that family until, well far long, long time. Even after the entournament. So thats what happens. I mean, the casualty officer proceeds to break the heart of the Family Member. This is spoken by somebody who has experienced those conversations on both sides, spider. And jake, you pray that its done with a level of professionalism as described by john kelly. And i would suggest to everyone that it is. These this is a sacred duty when you become a next of kin notification officer, a casualty assistance officer, you have to break this news on a very personal level. My motherinlaw, when she received notification, its something you cant ever redo. And so you pray that its done with a level of dignity and respect and with graciousness and immense amount of understanding. Theres no empathy, we cant talk about empathy because have you not been there, you just simply have never been there. And so it needs to be done and approached in a way as described by john kelly. I cant belief he was able to describe that linear sequence of events as objectively as he did, but he sure put a point on what takes place for our military and our nation to honor their fallen. General marks, admiralcare by, zaire ray murray, stick around. Were going to take a quick break. Well be right back. When youre close to the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment . If you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. Taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. With taltz, up to 90 of patients had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. In fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. Do not use if you are allergic to taltz. Before starting you should be checked for tuberculosis. Taltz may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you are being treated for an infection or have symptoms. 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And fragmented care, stop getting in the way of patient recovery and pay attention. Every single one of you is on our list. At optum, were partnering across the Health System to tackle its biggest challenges. Were back with the breaking news about the extraordinary press briefing from former marine general now white house chief of staff john kelly who came out and talked to the press today about the process of how somebodys alerted by the commander in chief or others if they have a Family Member who is a Service Member who was killed. And explaining some of the behind the scenes of the controversy. One of the interesting moments about this briefing was how much anger john kelly had for congresswoman wilson, thats the florida democrat who is the one who shared her view and the familys view of the interpretation of President Trumps comments when he called gold star wife and said something along the lines of he knew what he was getting into. John kelly shedding some light as to where that message came from. Thats what he was told by general dunford when general dunford called him to tell him that his son robert had been killed. Kelly wasnt only angry about what wilson said to the press this week, he went back to the 80s and talked about congresswoman wilsons appearance at the dedication of an fbi building. It was dead kalted to two agents killed in a fire fight and some of the Family Members of those killed were there. Take a listen. And congresswoman stood up and in the long tradition of empty barrels making the most noise, stood up there in all of that and talked about how she was instrumental in getting the funding for that building. And how she took care of her constituents because she got the money and she just called up president obama and on that phone call, he gave the money, the 20 million to build the building and she sat down. We were stunned. Stunned that shed done it. Even for someone that is that empty a barrel, we were stunned. But you know, none of us went to the press and criticized. None of us stood up and were appalled. We just said okay, fine. So i still hope, as you write your stories, and i appeal to america that lets not let this maybe lost thing thats held sacred in our society, a young man, young woman going out and giving his or her life for our country, lets try to somehow keep