Welcome to the lead im jake tapper. It is the messy result of President Trump governing by gut, picking someone he likes, with insufficient experience and nonexistent vetting to head the second largest burock rasry and opening the door for Ronny Jackson to step aside asserting he doesnt need the job or the aggravation that trump himself would not go through with it were it him. This comes after the news this morning that his confirmation hearing has been put on hold indefinitely by the u. S. Senators, led by Johnny Isaacson of georgia, chair of the vetera Veterans Affairs committee expressing concerns about allegations unproven allegations that one senator called devastating if true. After two whistleblowers detailed alleged behavior involving what they called a toxic Work Environment on capitol hill and jackson saying he was eager to answer any questions about this. We start off with more from the white house. I dont want to put a man through a process like this. It is too ugly and disgusting. President trump trying to offer a exit for another top aide and this time dr. Ronny jackson, his personal white house doctor he picked to lead the v. A. And the president standing behind jackson but wouldnt blame him for stepping aside. I wouldnt do it. What does he need it for . To be abused by a bunch of politicians that arent thinking nicely about our country. I really dont think personally he should do. It but it is totally his. I would stand behind him. It is his decision. Reporter but the president put jacks in this position. Nominating him to run one of the biggest bureaucracies without vetting him first. He was known for giving the president a clean bill of health. I told the president if he had a healthier diet he might live to be 200 years old. He has incredible genes. I just assume reporter while senators have been openly questioning his experience, his confirmation hearing was postponed indefinitely amid questions about his behavior at the white house medical unit. Cnn learned senators are looking into allegations from whistleblowers who raise concerns about excessive drinking, a toxic Work Environment and his handling of prescription drugs. The president himself said there was an experienced problem with his own nominee but said he had not heard the details of the allegations. I know there is an experience problem because lack of experience i havent heard of the particular allegations but i will tell you, hes one of the finest people that i have met. Reporter on capitol hill, jackson showed no signs of backing down. I can answer the questions and i look forward to rescheduling the hearing and answering everyones questions. Reporter on a day of pomp and circumstance at the white house as the president rolled out the red carpet for french president macron, it was another staff shakeup stirring controversy. The president spoke to jackson by phone saying the decision was his. I told admiral jackson, just a little while ago, i said, what do you need this for . This is a vicious group of people that malign and they do and i lived through it. We all live through it. Reporter while the president blamed the ordeal on democrats obstructionism, both parties expressed outrage at the white house for critical likes like the v. A. Lets get a leader over there mr. President. Do your vetting a lot better. Reporter and important to point out it is republicans on that Senate Committee raising questions as well. Senator john thune is saying it would be nice to know about some of the things before the fact as opposed to after the fact. But jake, despite the fact that the president opened the door to a graceful exit, we dont know if dr. Jackson will walk through it. Im told that he is still thinking this through, hes not yet advised the white house what he wants to do. One school of thought is he wants to answer the questions before hearing and another school of thought is it is wiser to step away if he doesnt get confirmed. So no answer to this yet but yet one more potential staff shakeup. Jeff zel annie at the white house. And my Political Panel joins us. And we have Caitlyn Collins from move on. Org and Corrine Pierre and a new book out today called suicide of the west, called everything from magnificent to a toured force. Congratulations, jonah. But lets talk about the panel discussion. Take a listen to how President Trump talked about dr. Jackson today. I have gotten to know him pretty well. Hes a great doctor. And it was a suggestion, now i know there is an experience problem because lack of experience, but there is an experience problem that the Veterans Administration is very important to me. Isnt it a bit unusual for a president to acknowledge that his own nominee has a, quote, experience problem. It is very unusual. And exactly if you listen to what the president said going forward, if it was me i wouldnt stay, i would withdrawal my nomination. That is not exactly a ringing endorsement. Because before the allegations were made against dr. Jackson, a lot of the pushback on capitol hill facing an uphill battle wentz confirmation any way because not just democrats, they do not think he has the experience to run Veterans Affairs. It has a lot of problems and bigs and just because he is a doctor and has great medical credentials could do that. The president said if it was me, i wouldnt do it. Put through ugly rumors and allegations. Disgusting process we call it a confirmation process. And when the people are confirmed, you dont have people like scott pruitt and David Shulkin running around spending money like theyre printing it in the backseat so you have someone you know you could trust and veteran affairs hits home for a lot of people and they wont just confirm anybody and it doesnt seem like it will happen for dr. Jackson. Look at President Trump seeming to blame a vicious group of people that malign, talking about the democrats, he said he didnt even know the specific allegations, though a white house source tells us that jackson did warn the administration. When the president demonizes democrats for blocking this nomination when it is actually republicans senators, primarily leading the concern, you write in your book about tribalism, about how everything these days is devolving into pacts of people loyal to even to people more than ideology. Is that part of this . This idea that President Trump is getting his base to blame democrats even though it is not democrats really to blame at all here . Sure. Part of my argument is that human nature in a very real way is corrupting and causes us to bend the rules, we dont like external rules, we want the shortest path between our desires and where we are. And that is donald trump to a t and that is why he likes to surround himself with loyalists and cares more about the loyalty to him than about their qualifications for a job and he figured out this argument by innuendo where if there is somebody who is in trouble on his team and his tribe, however you want to put it, it must be because the sort of evil other is to blame for it. It cant be that they did a bad vetting process or the guy wasnt qualified for the job because for donald trump, he works on instinct. He admitted it. And if i like you and think youre a loyal person to me, we can work out the other details later because thats what he cares about. And corrine, we learned jackson wasnt vetted before nominated. Obviously it is a different but President Trump brought the phrase extreme vetting into parlance when talking about refugees coming to the country. But he doesnt even believe in basic vetting for cabinet nominations. That is exactly right. And hes so illprepared for the office and doesnt understand what the agencies do to have nominated someone who would be the head of the second Largest Agency a 200 billion budget which is the Agency Behind the department of defense. That is a big job. And Ronny Jackson is just ill prepared and should not have this job. And to what the guest was saying, donald trump is the king of tribalism. He always talks to his base. Everything he does is talking to his base. Not to the people of the country, because it is a small and shrinking base and that is how donald trump operates. And lets play the sound of President Trump saying he supports the nominee but also opening up a door and maybe even several windows for Ronny Jackson to flee from the nomination process. The fact is i wouldnt do it. What does he need it for . To be abused by a bunch of politicians that arent thinking nicely about our country. I really dont think personally he should do it. But it is totally his. I would stand behind him. It is totally his decision. I mean, that doesnt sound like hes standing behind him to be honest. It doesnt sound like hes standing behind him but saying that i wont do it because he does see what hes being put through. This is someone a week ago a wellrespected doctor and beloved in the west wing and very beloved by the president because he picked him to do a job. Loved by the Obama White House before that also we should point out. Both parties. But Even White House officials who worked for President Trump realize he is likely doomed here. They do not see how he could pull himself out of this. They see this tough battle that pompeo just went through and they think he has the credentials to get the job as the top diplomat and they cant make the same argument or confident to make the statement. The statement that the white house sent out defending Ronny Jackson was prepared several days ago because they knew he would be criticized, the lack of experience so they drafted that statement saying they trusted his leadership at the v. A. But they obviously got to send it out early because of the allegations that are threatening to upend his nomination. And jonah, Mitch Mcconnell asked if he had gotten signal from the white house that jackson might withdraw and he said i havent gotten a signal. Were waiting for a signal. If Ronny Jackson is innocent of these allegations, hes been done a terrible disservice and you understand why he might want to stay in. I dont know what truth of it all is. But hes poorly served because if they vetted him up front, he never his name never would have been entered. And there is a reason Republican Senators May be concerned. The v. A. Is not a sexy job but way up there on the list of priorities for congressmen and senators in terms of constituent services and people who vote. And getting on the wrong side of veterans is just terrible p. R. So you could see why they are concerned. Stick with us. We have more to talk about. Coming up, i love you man. What is it about the french president that the president is unable to keep his hands off him. Stay with us. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. Peopbut theyre different. Nd. Its nice to remove artificial ingredients. Kind never had to. We choose real ingredients like almonds, peanuts and a drizzle of dark chocolate. Find your favorite and give kind® a try. 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Back with President Trump and frances president macron have policy disagreements but if he watch the two interact, i guess opposites attract because they seem to have a great time together as macron visits the white house. My panel is back. How would you describe the relationship . This is described as a bromance. It is who can outdo the other. If you watch them, even several times just today, im speaking purely will physical interactions now about the iran deal, but if you watch them, they are trying to outdo each other. On the truman balcony trying to outwave, to be the last to wave. And seeing who could pull each other the furthest or shake hand the longest or comes out with their hand on top on the back. Or earlier when they were walking to the oval office after they welcomed everyone on the south lawn, trump was dragging he likes to pull. Pulling him. It is an aggressive power move there. Theyre trying to outdo each other physically. He likes to man handle. In your new book, jonah, you write you giggle every time i plug your book. Im so grateful for it. In your new book suicide of the west you say he wants to go around parliament in france, despite the differences in policy and physicality, are trump and macron more alike than we think they are . They certainly i think caitlyn is right about the body language issue. If you watch it with the sound off and sometimes it reminds me of like champ kind from anchor man telling ron burgundy, i like your musk. There is a certain weird thing going on there. But i think ultimately it is sort of an alpha male thing and this is a person beyond politics an the dominant male and you see it in their interactions and also it is a very it is a longstanding trend in french politics as well, this idea from being without from without the system and you find it in american politics more as well. And corrine, when President Trump was standing with macron, he brushed something off his coat. This is a very odd moment. Take a listen. It is a great honor to be here. But we do have a very special relationship. In fact ill get that little piece of dandruff or we have to make him perfect. He is perfect. I mean, what . It is like telling the french president he has dandruff on his jacket. It is like a like a theater that trump cant help himself. But it also feels like they bring back this cave man days. They are all trying to establish themselves against each other. But to me, i have to give credit to macron because hes clearly taking a master class in how to manage donald trump. He plays into all of Donald Trumps insecurities and he knows how to get him to do hopefully to do what he wants. We dont know yet. And macron is not stupid. He knows what hes doing. And it does show how much more comfortable trump is around him. When merkel comes on friday he will not be picking dandruff off her shoulder or making jokes. But he comes first and then shell come on the back end. And also an interesting moment, jonah, when a reporter, i think it was john carl from abc asked President Trump whether he would pardon Michael Cohen under criminal investigation. Take a listen. [ inaudible question ]. Thank you very much. Stupid question. Go ahead. Anybody else . It. Stupid question. It doesnt seem all that stupid to me. It seems like a very legitimate question. He keeps talking about pardons. Yeah, hes giving them away like oprah with presents under the chair. And i understand why he doesnt want to talk about it then and there but it is obvious he is thinking about it and sending the signals about it. I think it would be a terrible idea particularly before you find out what it is exactly that they are looking at about Michael Cohen. It is one thing to do it after you find out what the charges are and maybe they dont touch you and you could do it in the spirit of mag nomminity but to do it preemptively which would seem like a coverup. And an interesting moment and story that cnn broke, the president using his personal phone cell phone to Contact People outside of the advisers and there are