One of the key questions, with respect to your observation, how do they respond to pressure . Do they keep things intact . Or do they end up going into a tailspin because they do not expect pressure to have the effect that it does . Do either of you have comments . There was a wonderful table pledged allegiance to isis and wedge of this group has isis accepted to pledge . Thank you for the discussion. Something nadia said, from my understanding, is saudi arabia the mothership . And here we are just focusing on the little actors, the ones actually doing the brutality. But the money, thoughts, ideas are all coming from saudi arabia . Is that the case, the International Community needs to focus on that and to finally have the balls to stop getting oil and giving you money, is that what it is going to take to end it . At this rate, it will never end. We will go after one fruit after another. What the Islamic State forces children to learn in its schools is the weddings writingshools is the. It is being enforced in areas that are under isis control. It is a match. The report compared isis to other revolutionary i think the comparisons should be between them and the journey of Mohammed Abdullah because that is at actually who they aspire it is not so simple. It is not the state itself, it is the people, the 5000 princes, some of them have stronger alliances with the others. It is not so black and white. For those that argue that it is not so black and white, why is it that when a liberal speaks one sentence outline, he is cut like this . You have millions and millions of dollars invested in islamic schools and mosques, that basically perpetuate hate and violence. You would not believe the amount of excitement against the west and the hate. Stop giving us all of this hate. Stop turning people into killing machines. There is definitely an enormous role for them to play. I do not see, personally, that we can tackle this without going to the source. At the same time, it is not the state itself, maybe people within the state. It is not so black and white. I have a question, because yesterday i was at the conference on turkey and they were talking about oil and they said it was not necessarily turkey that was processing the isis oil. It was people in turkey. Basically, the state would not take responsibility for helping isis financially. It is almost like Everybody Knows the problem, but they are not talking about that and how saddams daughter is helping isis. Interpol has a warrant out on her but she is still in jordan. We do not confront these people who are obviously a part of the problem. Is there any plan coming up to actually confront the problem, our allies . Like this addressed, because once i think people are clear about what america expects, maybe change can happen. This is a really important point. We have saudi arabia and particularly turkey in this conflict playing a similar role that say, pakistan did in the war in afghanistan. In which there are clear ways with which they are facilitating the fight and are part of the problem. On the other hand, there are other ways in which they are assisting and which they are of relative utility. The wonderful term i learned for my children, is fienemy. Children is from my frenemy. I think this is how we need to approach these types of states. If saudi arabia is a problem, on the other hand, it is not a particularly stable state. What happens if we because of sanctions or Something Else we did to them, the state false. The state falls. The last thing we need is for one more unstable place in the middle east. That is the worst of all outcomes. We have our hands tied and we need we are going to have to deal with this. What you are talking about is important. Speaking truthfully about what these states are doing, and not doing, having sunshine, having a name and shame policy that is appropriate, i think it is absolutely part of the solution. I think when we need to stop using the term ally, frankly. I want to add to that. With respect to turkey, i see there is a problem on the al qaeda side, then isis side. I think they are generally antiisis, although they occasionally referred to bump the kurds. But are actively supporting al qaeda. I think turkey has taken an extraordinarily dark turn. Dark. Extraordinarily one of the problems for us, for the u. S. , looking at the leverage over turkey, we need the airbase. But, i think we boxed ourselves in with thinking that we need them more than they need us. Right . It is a lot like pakistan during the afghansoviet war. At the end of the day, turkey has a mess on their border. It will affect them a lot sooner than it will affect the United States. I think we have a lot more leverage than we believe. Part of what i think we need to do is recalibrating our role in the region and tried to deal with some of these issues that have been highlighted. Recognize that we have leverage and not allow ourselves to see the u. S. As being dependent. With a few changes in our outlook, we could do a lot more to get concession, or not feeling like shooting ourselves in the foot in the process. When dealing with these groups and determining what their ideology and strategies are, how likely they are to change over time . A coauthor on this paper recently wrote an article contesting what has been a narrative that isiss attack in france was the change in strategy. You recently touched on this. How stable has isisstrategy been . Has isisstrategy changed, perhaps not in that year, but before and after the airstrike campaign . He is referring to the people who are sitting back there. I think they did a very thorough job of looking at the question of whether attacking the west, the terrorist attack, represents the change in isisstrategy. Their conclusion, is that it is not. If you look at the rhetoric of the organization, and reviews actions, including the january plot disrupted in belgium. They tried to do this before, what changes do that they succeeded. I think we are going to see a change, not an strategy, but in resource allocation. I think isis is likely to invest proportionately more resources in external operations, terrorist attacks abroad. It has to maintain its image of having momentum. As it loses ground in iraq and syria, there will be challenges in doing so. They will focus on ensuring themselves in places like sinai, libya, it tunisia, and trying to carry out attacks in in the west to show that they have momentum. They have a social media type strategy. The strategy is to get people excited, and you keep getting them excited. It is a strategy of momentum. That is what it is part of the strategy is, keep people and, replenish their ranks and draw relations to them. Which is why we will have completely fake social media campaigns orchestrated by isis supporters and some Major Organization is going to defect to them. More people would say it and keep saying it and then shabab will issue a statement and say no. Thats happened in some cases where they got Media Outlets to report a battalion they had not yet put it in their videos. It was reported in multiple Media Outlets that they were in isis affiliate. They never were, by isis was able to get a supporter from the organization to issue this release that made it look like it spoke for the whole organization. They have a very momentumbased strategy. I think that the resource of allocation will shift. They tried to attack the west they wanted to attack the west from the outside. They tried well before paris. The broader question is can these groups change is very interesting. The biggest debate is occurring, the brotherhood now, is it the same brotherhood or has it become an electoral force. That is were i think the central debate is, about to what extent these organizations change over time. It is a question that will be that we will be debating for some time to come. We are talking about isis and al qaeda and if we have seen any changes and it has been small and mostly strategic. Nadia we can explain the social media momentum because the vast majority of the recruits are in their 20s. This is in the organization that has an organization that has been intimate relationship with computers. Figure up explains expressing themselves they grew up expressing themselves through computers. That is how they communicate. A freelance journalist, given the tenor of our president ial race and the xenophobia coming out of the gop, it has been in a noticeable uptick with isis and al qaeda . That is a good question. I have not seen it, but i also think it would not manifest itself yet. You are talking about a relatively recent phenomenon over the past few months. Generally, we would start to notice it based upon arrest and understanding the genesis of where people draw their inspiration or grievance from. I think it is possible, i just have not seen evidence for it so far, that there is a noticeable uptick. Naida is talking about how there is so much hatred of the west in the media. Our media, there is so much hatred for muslims. Nadia a night and day difference. I watch fox, cnn, msnbc, really night and day. In the arab world, you have 80 of the population under 40, unemployed, disadvantage, not allowed to legally participate in the government. These socalled allies but all of their energy the media is controlled. We do not have free media like we do here. They take all of the responsibility from the failure of the nation on the west. It is rampant that people think everything that goes wrong is because of the west. That is what they hear 24 7. Thank you very much. As has been a great discussion, i left it. Susan, a retired analyst. I am curious to know what you think i was watching the news this morning, and one of the speakers said that what is happening is world war iii, we are in world war iii. I wonder what you think about that. I also wonder, if we lose world war iii and isis wins, what does our day to day life look like . To the International System that analogy has been made up several times, cold the cold war was world war iii. I think it is possible, if it is world war iii, it is not the u. S. Versus isis. What we are seeing is a broader phenomenon. I think al qaeda and isis are one subset of this phenomenon. Not so much and i were of north america, or europe. But in africa, middle east, places with weak governments. The state plays less of a role. I think we are seeing this global, broader phenomenon with al qaeda and isis if they are the most prominent subsets in which the state is being challenged. Transnationalism is possible now in a way that it never was before. Al qaeda was notable because it was the first global insurgency. Now, transnational is a is very easy. We are also interconnected. You can find transactional operations not just with al qaeda and isis, but with anarchist movements, racialist movements, with groups dedicated to a set of ideals, like anonymous. I am not saying that all of these groups are the same, but they are the same with some state actors that are capable of functioning to some extent at it differs from group to group. To some extent, it is strategic level. The number of countries that have been ripped apart by violence is very high. From syria, mali, libya, iraq. I am not saying it is a failed state, but it is work that hard where you have a violent act or controlling large parts of the territory. I will, not just at al qaeda and isis, but this broader phenomenon. What we will have to do, i think it is two things. We are going to have to better navigate a world of isis is bad, al qaeda is bad, but some groups are either a little bit more ambiguous, or in some ways, a lot of them. We are going to have to navigate this world were all religions are not on state to state level. The second thing is, the analogy i make a lot is between the disruptions and political states and disruptions in the economic state. Like his industries that are a legacy of another time. Look at blockbuster videos and netflix comes along and it is not blockbuster anymore. The analogy i use, the violence looks a lot like startup competitors in the political organizing space. They are able to innovate quickly, they have a streamlined structure, they are able to make strategic shifts in a more rapid way. Like the u. S. They look at how these startups are beating them and they have adapted their structures in some ways. Ultimately, i think that is one thing we are going to have to do. Agility is going to be important in this world that we are in the midst of the we have not adapted to yet. Do we have the last few questions . I am lolita, with the state department, i have a question with the Muslim Brotherhood. Just background i am sure you know, but this is for everyone else, there has been mixed reports about the role they play within isis. 2012, there are videos online on youtube of them raising isis flags in the background while making political speeches. There is also are we talking about egypt . Yes. And a couple of days ago, saudi arabia has ordered that all books written by Muslim Brotherhood scholars be removed from the school system. This is also tying into the msa, i am not sure if you are familiar with that. That also has ties with the Muslim Brotherhood. Is this something that we need to worry about in our universities on our side of the world . Msa is the Muslim Student association. Nadia it is definitely a great thing to ban them, but saudi arabia has a lot more if you compare it to the writings of Mohammed Abdullah, you have isis versus the brotherhood. I think it is clear which one is more violent and more harmful. I think it is pretty important to go at the ideology of exclusion of owning the truth. This idea this egomaniac idea that i know what islam is and if you do not adhere to it, you have no human rights, you are to be butchered like an animal. We need education and values such as religion tolerance, ability to agree with one another without violence, without coercion. How are we going to do this in a fire environment where these are the main mechanisms of influence by our own state . If you want to talk about tolerance and nonviolence, the state has to treat its own citizens with nonviolence. The state is not modeling what it really wants to see. You cannot leave without leading by example. A list there is a human right and participation by the population, i do not see how this will end. Number two, reform from within, we are aware of the limitations of what has been forced on us. We are monitoring a lot of, on social media, it starts off line and goes online. The debates are more audacious and more than anything that i had seen in the west. People do not address the issue at all, it is radioactive. People who live under islamic rule and forced to adhere to one persons vision or another, it is a problem on a daily basis. For example, a jordanian citizen, i can only, if at all, jordanian women do not inherit anything, i could inherit half. This is the list is so long about the abuse to my life. Every day, it is the name of islam. It is a problem. If you look under islamic rule, we need to reform. The modern state came to europe, and is a past that took hundreds of years of abuses and for the state recognized that it is not its place to enforce christianity on people. Then, they said we have to give up this control, and instead of having real states and human rights and participation. We would never have had that. The arab we are learning the hard way. Definitely, the west can help in that debate, but they are not. Lets get a closing statement and comments going down the line. This is a very important report that lays out the distinctions between these two groups. I do not think we should let the distinctions over one the commonalities. At the end of the day, this is in internal view and the entire family is a problem. Nadia i would conclude about the reports, i like the section about tunisia and how dowa efforts can start to we really need to focus on the ideas and the spread of the legal ideas before they become actual, physical violence. As you all noticed, this has been an unusual week as of all the world. Let me first start by apologizing. I misread the invitation before i set my schedule for the day. I am sorry i showed up late. Normally, you do not begin a closing statement with an apology. This is an exception. I would like to thank the teamwork, jason frtiz and bridget who did a phenomenal job with the reports. I want to thank the america for publishing it. This is a phenomenal institution and we are thrilled to have our report associated with it. Thank you, david for moderating this panel. This is a panel i respect deeply, doug and nadia. Overall, i would take this back to where i started. When we look at this period in a couple of years, we will look at this like a missed opportunity. We look back this as a period of missed opportunity. It is happening in the open. Increasingly, you have al qaeda describing isis as a blessing in disguise and saying they were able to clarify who the true shiites war and who the true muslims were. We need to Pay Attention because in the past we have not, they laid out their blueprint for societies like tunisia and we do not Pay Attention to that. We end up overlooking opportunities to stop their plans from coming to for titian. Fruition. Thank you. [applause] up on day next washington journal, Jonathan Martin on the of donald trump. And the director of the Washington University program on extremism details a report on isis supporters in america. And to an examination of the Education Department at school torments grants designed to raise performance in the first performing schools. Grantsol performance designed to raise performance in first performing schools performing schools. On the communicators we will examine how new members are recruited by isis. Were joined by the Vice President of the Media Research institute and mark wallace of group. If you look at the world, the production of media worldwide, if you look at hollywood and madison avenue, there is no doubt there is more of us than them. But if you look at the narrow space group by searching for this type of stuff. In the subworld, the subculture, in this niche they radically outnumber. Have a they should robust discussion in the United States that these countries, they are using these platforms. We have two policies in place that limit to and d9 this. If they do not, we must have a robust discussion do these platforms become support for these terrorists . Watch the communica