What can they do . What can they sustain . On the security front, a key is ensuring sufficient security and not absolute security. It is a proportional metrics. The more security environment, the more substantial the project you can pursue. To follow up on that, in iraq , the assessments being done about security and engagement, in the aftermath, those assessments were being done by our ambassador and those assessments were being done by the generals on the ground. Where are they on this proposal. Do they feel that they would generals or massacres feel that they would have benefited i having this . Thehe generals or ambassadors feel that they would have benefited i having this . He supports the idea of having it. When the u. S. Is operating ambassador in iraq and with the u. S. Operates elsewhere, it is ambassador who heads the effort in the country. The commanding general heads the defense operations. Understand what was said. This would it fit in command . The mission is discrete and will to find. Clarity will provide certainty to both agencies and the contractors. It would be somewhat like fema. Its mission is to oversee the relief or reconstruction at 230 activity in the affected country. The president would declare it over. The purported chain would be like mine. Reporting to the secretary of defense and the secretary of state and national advisor. When would we hit that point in syria . In afghanistan, at what point has that designation been made . Yria, once we decide the decision is appropriate for us, that is when you have a government in damascus or any margin government that we know we can work with and conditions on the ground are sufficient for us to go in. To make that call, you need to have experienced professionals on the ground and hopefully offer syria as well to that express political advice that is needed to make that decision. That is why you need a core of professionals devoted to this type of problem. It is widespread around the world. Without this core of professionals, we are not able to make the decision of when there is a government we can work with . Shouldnt it be much more that goes into the discussion of when to get involved or to wait until there is a government we can work with . We should be involved as soon as we see a crisis brewing. We should put our intelligence assets and are best professionals on the ground to assess what is happening. Professionalsse in order to make these decisions . Looking at our experience in iraq and afghanistan is that it would be helpful if he had this type of analysis before political leaders decided to go in in this very serious way. Casescisions in both proved to be false. Thank you. Vets isur iraq recognized. Thank you. I think the big thing we want to know is not should we be involved, but how to do it either . Egypt there is a term while turmoil. I think it is important that the u. S. Stays engaged with foreign aid as they go through this time of instability. I think it is important to icognize that in iraq, again think there were mistakes made in postwar. I think we should have gone in with more troops. We should have had a plan. We shouldve had a plan for Law Enforcement. We shouldve gone on tv and said qiat if the work with the ira government, continue to go to work because you have a job. This, something i want to explore is what is the difference between what happened in germany and japan postworld saw in iraq . At we is it reasonable to expect any kind of Development Aid of ground that can succeed in a highly unstable environment . That is a core lesson from that youafghanistan must have sufficient security before engaging in substantial rebuilding reconstruction activity and development and aid. That costs us billions of dollars and too many lives. We issued a report last summer lives were lost while individuals were involved in reconstruction related at tivoli. Better planning and better capacity and better integration among the agencies would have averted the kind of things that we saw. And implement effective oversight. That way you could be averted in syria. Thank you. Our occupation in germany and japan excepted succeeded because our residents was a presence was accepted. Statue fell,addam did we have the legitimacy at that link . Point . That g t cplexity of o, even when te down, i believe that we had a chance we could have established some legitimacy. We couldve established law and order. We welcome those to continue working in the government. There are many fundamental mistakes that we have made. Mistakes because we were not sensitive to the culture of the location. Even had we done everything right, it would be difficult than in germany and japan. I will give one example from japan. There was a critical decision not to remove the emperor of japan. Emperor sent to the japanese people, cooperate with these americans. We had no such wisdom in iraq. Youre suggesting we should have a Saddam Hussein as president . No. We took out tojo. That is a very different kind of fish. Thank you for that question. Learned. Ortant lessons we are naive if you think americans never have to be in that situation. Thank you for your hard work. Looking forward at where we are, my big concern is number 2014, they year two full out of afghanistan was pulled out of a outhe year to pull afghanistan was pulled out of a hat. When you look at afghanistan today, Something Like 60 of afghanistan are under the age of 20. An amazing young demographic. They are waking up in afghanistan. The military has control of the entire country. It is dandy against resurging taliban. Forceis this is a against resurging taliban. When we look back at the United States and our gang kids or whatever are reading history books, they will look at this finite and now on of time. They will look and see what america did with its position of power. To either lead to a world of oros or russian leadership will america be that shining city on the hill . I yield back. Thank you for your service. I would say to my friend from illinois that i appreciate his fingering some of the early stakes that were proved to be catastrophic. We have accused the ambassador with way too much power with no lateral decisions that undercut military and the state department for having to have our country that documentsk this. You and i have traveled to iraq together. Two things and we have to be concise two things that came up in that visit that stayed with me. The idea that the military was going to become a distribution entity. It is one thing to have some small things to fix a problem here and bolster the role of rebuilding communities and not just being seen as occupiers and invaders, but this rubber ballooned with little scrutiny. Part of your final report if you could talk about that. Second, i remember when we were traveling in a limited way around baghdad. It was the story of a power plant or purification plants that we built. We give no thought to the capacity of piping in baghdad. We have this brand spanking, shiny, new thing we could point to and returned on the switch and tens of thousands of baghdad water pipes burst. They were not retrofitted to handle this new capacity. There were examples like that were we did not get it right. Maybe it was because we did not have the right people on the project. I wonder if you can talk about that. Thank you. ,learly as audits demonstrate nded far beyond that is a good idea. Help address hearts and mind issues. We hadppened instead was projects like the baghdad ,nterprise that ballooned up including a painting of a mural t entire project certainly that is great work if you can get it. It didnt advance our National Security interest locally. It instead hinder them. Snappingresponded by capping projects at 1 million. That should be done at the pentagon. Y should be program of the ensure training is done. On the Water Treatment system, it was the largest project that we did in iraq. The civil infrastructure project. As we documented in our evaluation of the, it was only operating at 20 after turnover. Happens example of what when you do not carefully consult and effectively oversee and ensure that proper execution is happening at the local level. It was beyond their means. As you pointed out, there is so , it is impossible to document. By contrast, the parallel water , it was aproject smashing success. It provides fresh water to the people of the capital city. Why . Because they committed to it. Sustainment is a huge issue in future operations. To see. Thank you. Thank you, madam chair. Gentlemen, appreciate your time. We talk about fraud, waste, and abuse and we talk about transparency and oversight. We talk about this a lot, but we never hold the person accountable. With the money we look at spending in iraq, i think 6 billion is what we have come in close to 100 billion in afghanistan, without the ,versight, when we go back American People are tired of that. We have got to change our foreign policy. Germany, they surrendered. No one surrendered here. You have an unstable government and trying to rebuild is almost insanity. We need a clear, defining goal. Now were looking at syria. Alan asked specifically what you see as the role i want out specifically what you see as a role of the government in the middle east . Different way we can approach the middle east instead of going in there and bombing and people dying and we have to look at rebuilding with the waste, fraud, and abuse . Get the question is if you could take us a scenario of how money howiven to this agency and it is tracks we do not get into this again i think you will be involved in summer in the future and i would not like to see that. I think the men and women need to stay here and make america strong. You asking the question if we could provide stability in the middle east. I think it is safe to say that it is beyond our means to provide stability in each and every country in the middle east. I agree. We will bankrupt ourselves if we try. And wepromote stability can also is specific countries at specific times make a specific difference was that we have to be careful before we go in. We need to have excellent intelligence and have goals that are sufficiently limited so we can achieve them. That means you have to look carefully every time before we try to intervene. We have a serious core of professionals and leaders with wisdom and humility. Thank you. Co would do. Hat uso it would reduce the costs and oversee such operations by ensuring that there was at that planning. It would not rely on coronation on the ground as operation begins, which is what occurred in iraq and afghanistan and did not work. That coronation must move to integration so that there is a capacity that exist before the operation begins. And it is done at a time to make sure that there are controls in place so that the projects and programs succeed in the fraud, waste, and abuse are avoided. The army corps of engineers did a program where they are in the pipelines and it was billions of dollars. You are saying that we had to rely on experts and things like that . How do you get that question why it is not acceptable that we are money and be have to tell taxpayers to send more money heidi do you get that . We areit acceptable that spending money and we have to tell taxpayers to send more money . Accountability is key. Who is held accountable . They called state defense and aid to the table and asked, who is in charge of the rebuilding program . I could not provide an answer. T is what usoco there is no wonder now when nothing goes well. Is not centralized or coordinated. There is no one identifying with accountability for the operation. I yield back. Thank you, madam chair. Andcontrast of the Quality Service of our brave men and women compared to the conduct is released arc. It is very disturbing. Role does the pervasive in hision in iraq play reconstruction effort . As of september 2012, and anticorruption effort despite the support for the fight against corruption, apparently little change or change it thousand three and 2012 and that apparently little change or 003change at all between 2 and 2012. I would like to hear from you of that impacts the reconstruction efforts. I would also like to hear from the police program. Wasted millions of dollars to aqi police that baghdad to not need or want. How did that happen . Finally, how you conclude that this new agency would somehow provide the kind of money and oversight that we have a right to expect . I think the American People sees crumbling werastructure in cities do not have the resources to rebuild our own country and we waste in iraq. Properly a source of great rage from the American People. Thank you. The corruption issue in iraq capacity to limit its to grow and for making progress out of the situation in which it is currently mired. The cheap oversight entity told me when i interviewed him last year that corruption has become an institution in iraq. It takes the form of money laundering. That drains the economy of its resources and keeps the majority of the population in poverty stricken circumstances. The Police Department row graham failed to succeed because of the lack of consultation with the minister of interior. When we did the audit, we met with the minister and he said to us that it was shaped and formatted in a way that do not really meet his needs. Audit,e issuance of the it was concluded early this year because of the lack of this late into the program, there was a consultation problem. Would address the fraud, byte, and abuse issues ensuring accountability and transparency throughout the process. Most importantly it would promote integration. If you accept that and accept the fact that our Current System is not promoting or advancing capacity, and i think reform is necessary. There is no other proposal on the table. There is no other office in place within the executive ranch that is advancing that interest. That interest is ultimately tied to our National Security architect for protecting your interest in the region and not implementing this kind of reform would leave us worse off. A followup question. In 2012. Was done conductedcy options by the central bank and up to 800 million was laundered money transport illegally under false pretenses. This presents the possibility that up to 40 billion was leaving the country annually because of corruption. What percentage of that is american taxpayer money . That is all iraq money oil and gas money. It is not u. S. Money. sat comes from an audit, iraq oversight entity. Thank you. I yield back. Another wonderful iraq vet is recognized. Thank you, madam chair. Dialogue. This is one of the things that i think needs to happen. What is interesting coming to the table, i think there is an. Nteresting correlation there are different aspects of this. Owing into iraq going into iraq as he did, it is not the best way to go about it. Question i have and i think one of the core professionals that you mentioned you keep mentioning usoco. And the state Department Involvement usually would be higher come especially is that something that you see . The state department, if we are hiogher . We need to be yes. The state department was given policy authority over the Reconstruction Program. If authority in one agency and the contract capacity in another agency. I saw him repeatedly on the ground that it led to friction and that led to failure i saw it repeatedly on the ground and that led to friction and that led to failure. That has been clear of a lot of things going on in syria. Our job is to go in and help those and we have got a concern here. The very things that youre talking about when you start looking at syria or egypt or anywhere else, is as being involved militarily is different than iraq and afghanistan. Co concern goes back to if uso is implemented, what is your estimated costs . 25 million per year. I have looked at the appendix in the draft bill. Is it a standalone . Where is the direct report . It reports to the secretary of defense and the National Security advisor. That i see as an issue. Report to the secretary of state and the secretary of defense. It makes sense. Operations. Ique it is a creature of the modern era. And also directed by the president , correct . That is correct. With senate confirmation. The president could fire that person . That is right. One of the last things that you stated was planning in advance and planned Cumbrian Sibley and have a backup plan ready to go. Plan for contingencies and have a backup plan ready to go. In world war ii, with all the history that you big, and the first couple of years we were winning the war and then came the as akin to the reconstruction. What i found troubling in iraq is that things were suddenly there and what do we do and how do we do this . They were sending him to be construct. We will not discuss the actual reasons but that is a concern for me. Be looking at usoco being an agency at the front end . For military involvement needs to be there on a large scale . Would you repeat the problems of iraq and go in before the fighting is over or are we looking at something where they would finish it and secure it and then begin rebuilding the assess . It would be the latter. Thet to make sure soco is tooal of u provide National Command with options. A range of choices with for guard to the nation nature of the aid that you provide to country x syria not limited by circumstances. In iraq we plan to liberate and leave. We plan to be gone by september. Within six weeks of arriving come we shifted to occupy and rebuild with no structure in place to sustain such an operation. I appreciate your work. I think the concern looking forward is implementation of usoco what we call a different environment with iraq standing alone and then have the smaller areas of how that would fit in longterm . Those are things we need to discuss. That is the hot spot right now that we had to deal with. It also concerns me deeply that we are discussing those numbers and taxpayer dollars. His are dollars that men and women do not understand when we send overseas and we do not have a defined role. These are dollars that men and women do not understand when we send it overseas and we do not have a defined role. That has contributed to the distrust that americans feel. We have to restore that trust. I yield back. Very good. Excellent point. We have been joined by the Ranking Member of the full committee, mr. Ingle, thrilled to have you. Doing all right . Thank you. Son for his to your service. And also to your family. My son also served in usaid. This does not make me an expert in the military or in the state department. I want to say that. I try to have many discu