So 10 u. S. Code section 119 discusses the ability to waive congressional reporting. However, the gang of eight is supposed to be notified if waived, and thats public law. I dont want to cut you off. How does a program like that get funded . Mr. Grusch i can get very specific in a closed session. Misappropriation of funds. Does that mean there is money in the budget that is set to go to a program but it doesnt and goes to Something Else . Mr. Grusch yes. Do you think u. S. Corporations are overcharging for certain tech theyre selling to the u. S. Government and that money is going through different programs . Mr. Grusch yes. Satellite imagery. We have satellites all over the place. Mr. Moskowitz were taking pictures of everything at every point and second. Mr. Grusch, are you aware do you have direct knowledge or have you talked to people with direct knowledge there are satellite imagery of these events . Mr. Grusch that was one of my primary tasks at n. G. A. Since we process, exploit and disseminate that. Ive seen multiple i left n. G. A. In april. So thats my information cutoff date. I personally reviewed both what we call overhead collection and from other strategic and tactical platforms that were i could not even explain. I have a degrees in physics, by the way, as well. I am aware you guys have not seen these reports, unfortunately. And i dont know why. Mr. Moskowitz do you have direct knowledge or have spoken to people with direct knowledge that this imagery deals with crash sites, crash imagery . Mr. Grusch i cant discuss that in open session. Mr. Moskowitz do you have any information that the u. S. Government is involved in a Disinformation Campaign to deny the existence of certain u. A. P. s . Mr. Grusch i cant go beyond what i have already stated publicly in minus nation interview because it touches other sensitivities. Mr. Moskowitz i yield back. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ms. Foxx. Ms. Foxx thank you, mr. Chairman. I thank our witnesses for being here today. Mr. Grusch in your mr. Grusch, in your sworn testimony, you saved that the u. S. Government retrieved supposedly extra test rale space at the terrestrial and spacecraft. You state that the u. S. Government is in possession of, quote, nonhuman spacecraft, end quote. And that some of these artifacts have circulated with defense contractors. Several other former military and intelligence officials have come forward with similar allegations. Albeit it nonpublic settings. However, dr. Shawn kirkpatrick, the director of aaro, previously testified before congress that there has been, and i quote, no credible evidence thus far of extra at the terrestrial activity or, quote, offworld technology brought to the attention of the office. To your knowledge, is that statement correct . Mr. Grusch its not accurate. I believe dr. Kirkpatrick mentioning about 30 individuals that have come to aero thus far. They have been interviewed. I know what they provided to dr. Kirkpatrick and their team. I was able to evaluate that information. Ms. Foxx i need to go on. Mr. Grusch sure. Ms. Foxx my understanding, his statement is accurate. Came from a direct quote. And this contradiction is a perfect example of why we need to injection transparency into our government. For another example, look no further than the pitiful response to the chinese spy balloon debacle earlier this year. You may remember the mass confusion that ensued when the balloon was first spotted over montana four days after it entered u. S. Airspace over alaska. The biden administrations initial inability to address the object grew into a continuous series of embarrassments. After news of the balloon reached the mainstream media, we were assured that the balloon posed no threat to our security. However, after the balloon was allowed to transit the entire continental United States, fighter jets were scrambled off the coast of South Carolina to shoot it down. This flipflopping and obfuscation caused needless confusion, fear, and panic across the country. Its my hope, mr. Chairman, that this sort of confusion will not be repeated. We should investigate the extent to elements of our government possess or do not possess information that is of critical value to the American People. We owe it to the citizens of this nation to make sure that our government is transparent and accountable. We must make sure that our government provides answers and Congress Must do its duty to solicit those answers. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Mr. Grothman yeah. Mr. Frost. Mr. Frost thank you. In 2022, nasa announced it was commissioning an independent study team to examine u. A. P. s. They have scientists across different fields as well as former pilots. They held that the first Public Meeting which included the perspectives from nasa Senior Leaders as well as perspectives from the department of defense and intelligence agencies, the nasa study team is also expected to release its first report pretty soon, and i think its safe to say that we all eagerly await its results. Mr. Graves, how might nasas research influence the commercial industry regarding safety and u. A. P. . Mr. Graves i think nasa has a big role to play and one of the original charters as an organization. One of the recommendations that have been put forward is to utilize their existing aviation reporting system to be a trusted platform that wants to report on u. A. P. It has built in analytics capability and funded by congress. Mr. Frost are there any other industry that may be influenced by the nasa research on u. A. P. s and if so how so . Mr. Graves well, i think there is a large swath of commercial capability that can be brought to bear from spacebased or groundbased Sensor Systems that are open through commercial marketplaces and i think nasas work as they work to identify and highlight specific parameters that can be found, we can take that information and promulgate this through the Public Sector so we can have more open conversation about what were seeing. Mr. Frost in 2020, the department of defense released several videos of u. A. P. s, including mr. Fravors experience, u. S. Navy pilots that recorded footage. In 2021, the office of the director of National Intelligence released a preliminary report on u. A. P. Events. Nasa administrator bill nelson said that nasa would begin to investigate these events. In fact, i sat on the science, space, and Technology Committee and when we were doing a hearing with the nasa administrator why nasa needed to be fully funded, there were many great reasons. One had to do with u. A. P. s. Is there life out there . I dont know. Either way, these actions ultimately led nasa to assemble the independent study team that i mentioned earlier. Also in 2021, harvard stood up the Galileo Project to research and examine the origins of u. A. P. s so it seems like both from nasa and the Higher Education community, because of the work that yall have done and people standing up, you know, i think were seeing some of that stigma slowly going away. Mr. Fraver, do you believe that military pilots feeling empowered to share their u. A. P. Experiences has directly impacted the Scientific Communitys Research Goals on this topic . Mr. Fraver i would say mr. Fraver i would say yes. When it came out it took that stigma away. I spoke to multiple senators. Prior to that if you mentioned u. A. P. You would be laughed off the hill. Now were sitting here today in public testimony about whats going on. I hope this will be more exponential and will get more and more transparent to the level we can. Mr. Frost its important. I couldnt imagine you know, im not a pilot but i used to fly gliders. Yeah. [laughter] and so either way, i couldnt imagine, you know, being in the glider and seeing something. And then not feeling like i had the agency to talk about it. Mr. Graves, can you discuss the importance of seeking scientists to sit on your Advisory Board . Mr. Graves absolutely. I think ultimately this is going to be a scientific problem. Not only that its also an engineering problem. Ive been working with the American Institute of aeronautics and astronautics to help integrate their engineering prowess into this problem. Its very much, i think its an engineering and scientific problem as well as a National Security problem. Mr. Frost and how might congress facilitate partnerships between the Scientific Community and the u. A. P. Focused groups within government . Mr. Graves i think one of the things they can do is have these types of hearings to communicate to the public this is a topic of interest. I think there is a pseudo market if you will of interested capabilities and talent that want to approach this topic and were seeing that start to grow now. So i think a continued conversation, reduction of stigma will allow that to flourish and allow answers to help generate themselves. Mr. Frost 100 . Thank you, all, for being here. Thank you for your help. I think its important we keep our top Scientific Minds focused on this issue and look for ways to increase collaboration. Thank you so much. I yield back. Mr. Grothman mr. Comer. Mr. Comer thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me say i want to thank you for having this hearing. With that i yield my five minutes to mr. Burchett. Mr. Burchett thank you, mr. Chairman. Im going to direct this, i believe, to mr. Grusch. But if any of yall feel like you need to jump in just jump right in. Were good. As a has the u. S. Government become aware of evidence of extra terrestrial, and if so when do you think this first occurred . I like to use the term nonhuman. It keeps the app are ature open both scientifically. Certainly like i discussed publicly previously 1930s. Mr. Burchett ok. Can you give me the names and titles of the people with direct firsthand knowledge and access to some of this crash retrieval some of these crash retrieval programs and maybe which facilities, military bases that would the recovered material would be in . I know a lot of congress talked about well go to area 51 and you know theres nothing there anymore anyway and we move like a glacier. Soon as we announce it im sure the moving advance would pull up. Please. Mr. Grusch i cant discuss that publicly but i did provide that information both to the Intel Committee and the inspector general. Mr. Burchett if we could get that in a skiff . Mr. Grusch sure. If you have the appropriate accesses, yes. Mr. Burchett what special Access Programs cover this information and how is it possible they have evaded oversight for so long . Mr. Grusch i do know the names. Once again, i cant discuss that publicly. And how they evaded oversight, in a closed setting i could tell you the specific trade craft used. Mr. Burchett when do you think these programs began and who authorized them . Mr. Grusch i do know that information but its something i cant discuss publicly. Mr. Burchett ok. If any of yall want to jump in on this you are more than welcome to. What level of security clearance is required to fully access these programs . Mr. Grusch well, anybody who has mr. Burchett i say that because myself, representative gaetz and representative luna were basically turned away at one point at eggland. So please, go right ahead. Mr. Grusch certainly different between member access and say, somebody like me, but anybody who has the clearance and meets the eligibility clearance. The access of adjudicated authority. If youll yield. Just to put a fine point on that. Theres nothing that youre wear of youre aware of thats above special classification . Mr. Grusch its nothing above top secret. But i draw a point on that because we can have access to those programs. And so the notion that were not being given that access sort of defies our typical muscle memory here in congress. Thank you, mr. Burchett. I yield back to you. Mr. Burchett thank you, mr. Gaetz. Title 10, you may not know this but title 10 and title 50 authorization, they seem to say theyre inefficient. So who gets to decide this in your opinion in the past . Mr. Grusch its a group of career Senior Executive officials. Mr. Burchett are they government officials . Mr. Grusch both in and outs of government. And thats about as far as i will go there. Mr. Burchett ok. That leads to my next question. Which private corporations are directly involved in this program . Mr. How much taxpayer money has been invested in these programs, to your knowledge . We know we audit the pentagon every year. And ive been here five years and they failed the dad gum thing every year. Lose over a billion dollars a year, we think, and i told the department of department maybe 60 of their assets are unaccounted for, whatever the heck that means. In the Public Sector, you go to jail for that kind of crap. So tell me. Mr. Grusch yeah, i know when i off my d. T. S. Travel i gets hammered. Mr. Burchett if you sell over 600 stuff on ebay now you get a call from the i. R. S. So please, what corporations . Mr. Grusch i dont know the specific corporations i did provide to the kegs and specific divisions and i spent 11 1 2 hours at the Intel Committee. Mr. Burchett has there been an active u. S. Government Disinformation Program to debunk the u. A. P. And if so why . Mr. Grusch i cant say publicly except from what i espoused about that. Mr. Burchett ok. Ive been told to ask you how to get it in the record. Mrs. Luna what have you stated publicly in your interview for the public . Mr. Grusch i talked about a multidecade campaign disenfranchised public interest. Mr. Burchett i apologize, mr. Chairman. I yield back negative 21 seconds. Mr. Grothman thank you. Ms. Ocasiocortez. Ms. Ocasiocortez thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for coming here today. I conquer with the Ranking Member as well as several members on this committee this is a committee for whistleblowers and for the protection of whistleblowers as well. So we understand what youre putting on the table here. We thank you for that. Mr. Grusch, you sat on the unidentified anomalous phenomena created in the 2020 ndaa, is that correct . Mr. Grusch yes. Ms. Ocasiocortez mr. Graves, you mentioned specifically during the answer to one of your questions, you mentioned boeing contractors being engaged in an incident regarding this rid cube red cube about a football field wide. I want to know if you can speak about the interaction between defense Contractor Companies and any u. A. P. Related programs or activities . Mr. Graves the information was provided by a witness and i have no particular detail on that relationship. Mr. Grusch certainly, the contractors, you know, are the metal benders so to speak. They are doing specific performance on government contracts. Ms. Ocasiocortez do they engage in any reporting around this . Mr. Grusch in terms of the contractors, not that i am aware of. Ms. Ocasiocortez they do not. When it comes to notification that you had mentioned abouti rad about irad programs, weve seen contractors abuse their contracts before this committee. I have seen it personally. And i have also seen the notification requirements to congress abused. I am wondering, one of the loopholes that we see in the law is that there is, at least from my vantagepoint, is that depending on what were seeing is there are no actual definitions or requirements for notification. Are there what methods of notification did you observe . When they say they notified congress, how did they do that . Do you have insight into that . Mr. Grusch for certain irad activities, i can only think of one conventional in nature. Sometimes they flow through certain i would say sap programs that have cognizant authority over the air force or something. And those are congressionally reported compartments. But irad is internal to the contractors. So as long as its money, either profits, private investment, etc. , they can say whatever they want. Ms. Ocasiocortez to put a finer point on it. When there is a requirement for an agency or company to notify congress, do they contact the chairman of the committee . Do they get them on the phone specifically . Is this through an email to hypothetically to a dead email box . Mr. Grusch a lot of it comes through what they call the p. P. R. , periodic review process. And those go to the specific committees, whether it be the ms. Ocasiocortez thank you. I apologize. My time is limited. Mr. Graves, one of your main concerns that the f. A. A. Currently does not have an official process to receive reports of u. A. P. From pilots or others, correct . Mr. Graves correct. Ms. Ocasiocortez in your experience, what data should the arrow aero program have for collection . We have location, date, time. Do we have specific characteristics that should be included in these reports . Mr. Graves certainly. I think theres two categories that would be important. One would be kinematics and understanding how the specific vehicle or object is moving. And one is another zoomed out approach of being able to look at origin and destination after, before the incident, as well as getting a better Contextual Understanding how these objects are interacting with each other. Ms. Ocasiocortez thank you. Because i only have a minute left, i apologize we only have five minutes today. But for the record, if you were me, where would you look . Titles, programs, departments, regions, if you could just name anything . And i put that as an open question to the three of you. Mr. Grusch i would be happy to give you that in a closed environment. I can give you that specifically. Commander fraver you have to know where to look because of classification levels. If you know where to point to, you have them. Mr. Graves i was like ms. Ocasiocortez ok. Yield back to the chair. Mr. Grothman mr. Biggs. Mr. Biggs i thank the chair. I thank the witnesses for being here. Im over here. [laughter] thank you so much for being here. I want to get into specifics here. And the reason im going to go this way is because youve talked a bit about misdirection by official u. S. Government with regard to u. A. P. s, right . Last week white house spokesman said that u. A. P. s need to be treated as a legitimate issue. Do you concur with