Mr. Kennedy i dont know that it would get completely used up it depends upon it depends upon the amount of moisture in a particular inflator and the amount of desiccant. Many of our later generation inflators do contain desiccant along with Ammonium Nitrate. We have not seen this issue with those inflator is in the field. So we know that is a factor that contributes to the life of the inflator. Mr. Burgess does takata manufacture any airbag used in any make or model vehicle that uses sodium im sorry, Ammonium Nitrate . Mr. Kennedy yes. All of these inflators that are involved in these issues we are talking about how Ammonium Nitrate without desiccant. Mr. Burgess are you still manufacturing Ammonium Nitrate without . Mr. Kennedy the few platforms we are not transitioned out of yet but we are working to transition as quickly as possible. Mr. Burgess im sorry. You go out and buy a brandnew car and it could have one of these instruments in it . Mr. Kennedy it could have an Ammonium Nitrate based inflator that does not have it. Thats correct. Mr. Burgess is there any obligation to warn the consumer that they are buying something that may be problematic . Mr. Kennedy the recalls that are in process at this time are for certain time frames, certain vehicles, certain technologies. Those would not be involved in a brandnew vehicle at this time. That is why we are continuing as part of the Consent Order to test outside of the boundaries of what is involved in the recall to really understand what the total scope is. Mr. Burgess im sorry youre not providing me much reassurance with that answer let me ask you this. You say that by september you will be up to a million units. Mr. Kennedy and we will continue to go up after that. Mr. Burgess but under just simple math, 34 million vehicles. I mean, almost three years timeframe. Mr. Kennedy it is roughly the exact number is in the dir. But the additional is about 16 or 17. I do not mean to minimize it. It is obviously a huge number whichever way you look at it. Previously there had been 18 million that had already been under the call. We have supplied over 4 million already since january of last year and now we are up to 750,000 per month going to 1 million per a million per month. I dont mean to interrupt but my time is up. Are any of the replacement modules you are reinstalling in vehicles that are brought in to have their airbag system changed out, are any of those Ammonium Nitrate propellants . Mr. Kennedy some of them are. On the driver side we are completely transitioning out and we will be using either a desiccated inflator how we will be using a competitor inflator. Thank you. My time is expired. I want to follow up on the chairmans questions. You have talked about the possible reasons, including Ammonium Nitrate perhaps being part of the cost. You are saying if i understand you correctly that you are providing replacement bags that have Ammonium Nitrate without a desiccant. A desiccant. Yes, maam. Thats correct. I dont understand that. What is under recall right now . Certain model years, certain designs on certain vehicles. But why . Why . Why is Ammonium Nitrates why would you and why would i buy why would you put in a car and why would i buy a car that has a potentially dangerous airbag . Im not understanding. We are working to move away from them as quickly as possible. In a vehicle it is not as easy as just changing the color of the car or changing a bold. Your not talking about replacements. Yes. So the replacement could be as dangerous as the current. Why would you even replace it . As i said, without exactly understanding the root cause and continuing to test outside of the bounds of what we have already recalled were trying to determine. Were trying to understand exactly the factors that lead to this, this, and should we do Something Different than what were doing right now . We know you heard doctor rose kind say it takes seven have to 12 years. Putting in a brandnew part is a huge improvement in safety. As we continue to test if it shows that we need to take additional actions we will take additional actions. So, does the recall affects cars that are over ten ten years old . Some of them. I think the original recalls these new ones, i would have to look at the dir and see because of that overlap that i talked about. Some of them go back to as early as i think 2,000, 2,001. The 1st ones involved. My understanding is that you are doing that on older cars but you are not required to do so. I wanted to ask you if takata has taken a position on the Vehicle Safety improvement act hr 1181. No, we have not publicly. I am aware of the bill but not the particulars in the bill. We certainly we certainly support any effort that would help improve the return rate on recalls. So let me give you some of the items in the bill and see if you would support that. Hr 1181 would increase the quantity and quality of information shared by auto manufacturers with nets a, netzer, the public command congress specifically requiring manufacturers to include in there quarterly submissions Additional Information on fatal incidents, possible because by a defect and assess why the answer may have occurred and it removes removes the limitation on the number of model years that should be reporteds. Is this something that sounds supportable to you . Well, well, it is a little disingenuous because it is not a requirement for a company. It would seem like that would be a good idea in order to increase visibility on issues. Do you think it would be a good idea to not limited ten years the number of recalls the part of the required . I did not know that there was a limit. Some of these vehicles at 15 years old. Would you think it is a good idea to have new eminent Hazard Authority to expedite recalls . Again, that is a difficult one for a supplier to answer. But i think anything that improves the safety on the road is certainly a step in the right direction. Do you think theres any reason to support regional recall as opposed to national . Obviously our started off as a regional. And the reason a couple of reasons, number one because that is what the science and data showed where the issues were command there will be cases where i think that is probably correct. People dont drive their cars other places. That is true, but the other thing i was going to say, it helps with getting parts into the Priority Areas as quickly as possible which is part of the core dir that we came to agreement on in the last couple of weeks. Can i work with you as well obviously primarily with the members but talk to you about legislation . Absolutely. Thank you. I yield. The chair thanks the gentle lady in recognizes the gentle lady from tennessee. Five minutes questions. Thank you. Im going to stay right with you. [inaudible conversations] i was listening to your statement and i think i must have missed something because you talked about manufacturing stopping the manufacturers. You never mentioned the Ammonium Nitrate. You kind of lost left the propellant out of the mix in that addressed it with mr. Burgess. This is from an explosives expert. He said the following about Ammonium Nitrate. It should not be used in airbags but it is cheap, unbelievably cheap. Do you agree with that statement . Unbelievably cheap or that it should not be used . I would not say its unbelievably cheap. I cheap. I would say its competitive with some of the propellant formulations. Which we use is a blanket statement this is it should not be used as. I dont agree with that. We had issues. Many have performed well. Are you an explosives expert . No. All right. Lets go to what ms. Czajkowski was saying. You are still using this. Isnt it true that Ammonium Nitrate is a a dangerous substance to be used in airbag inflated . No. I dont believe its a dangerous substance to be used. You do not. We use stabilized Ammonium Nitrate. Most of the issues are it is losing its base stabilization. Isnt it true that Ammonium Nitrate is cheaper than other compounds . Probably. At the time when we started the use Ammonium Nitrate the competing material, those two are very similar in cost. There is not a huge difference. You are an engineer. Isnt it true that your own engineers warned you about using Ammonium Nitrate . Well, from some of the newspaper articles i read i assume your frying to mr. Lillys comments. Mr. Benton and mr. Lilly. I can tell you, every development program, every product that any supplier makes there is always a spirited debate about the right components, the right design. And there are tradeoffs. The previous materials we use extremely toxic the unwanted effect that when deployed is a did not burn cleanly and there was a lot of effluents put into the vehicle and a lot of people and respiratory issues were bothered. Every propellant, every design, there is always a spirited debate and you can probably find people. I want to move on. Given given that you are recalling cars that may have already been repaired, have there been field incidents reported . Have you had any occurrences not that im aware ofs. All of the Replacement Parts have performed 100 percent satisfactorily . Well, what i said was im not aware. Would you double check that and get back to us and let us no . Yes. What does takata believe we know from testing today that we did not know your ago. We know a lot, and not just from our testing. I heard some of the dillman referred to the report that was released. We brought doctor no its into our facility in february. We bought a team. What kind of changes are you making . As i said we do have later designs. The alternate propellants. Continuing around does a. You will see our production go down. I yield back. The gentle lady yields back. The chair recognizes the german from massachusetts for five minutes for questions. Thank you. Glad to come back. You expect the use would decrease . It certainly got a Bad Reputation through all of this. As i said command it is a contributing factor that everyone believes is involved in this issue. Signify or guarantee that as long as it is used the products are safe . Can you guarantee that the products are safe . We believe properly manufactured and designed Ammonium Nitrate can be done properly. So you indicate in your written testimony that in certain circumstances these conditions can result in an alteration and propellant wafers in the inflators that could lead to overaggressive combustion. Your statement is if it is properly manufactured and under the right circumstances those conditions would not exist. We have seen those in very rare cases. That goes back to the root cause discussion we were having earlier. We we do not have the definitive root cause. We know more than we did based on the testing that we have done and all the testing that are outside experts of the. The testing you have done has indicated that the Ammonium Nitrate on the conditions of humidity and heat over time to lead the malfunction. Exactly. And exactly. And that you are going to five year plans are to phase out the use of Ammonium Nitrates and products. We have been facing them down and phasing way propellants, but a lot of thems poor with desiccant. We had gone from non desiccated to desiccated. And is a similar . Yes. Why not adopted earlier . We made investments in order to process. We were having good success. It was competitive. It had a number of these other advantages to it. It was not something that until recent issues really give us a reason to rethink. A significant disadvantage of late. Am sorry. Fairly significant disadvantages of late. Yes. s i think you try to touch on this. In an article in the New York Times yesterday indicated that the headline says takata says it will no longer make side inflator linked to airbag deflects. What . It will no longer make side inflator linked to airbag defect. Will not be using Ammonium Nitrate. Another piece another newspaper saying is still would be manufactured in the peace and writers that said it was not going to be. Can you clarify for me, is it still being used . Should people what should people do . Thank you mr. Chairman. I was at the hearing in december, i was the vice chair then. I quote from the transcript, directly from the transcript of the december hearing had asked her colleague about this matter and had stated , the current view based upon reliable information does not support a nation my determinations of safety defects in all vehicles equipped. This is not the view of the agency of the federal government. So you are dramatically and diametrically in opposition to the view. Is that accurate . And then this was discussed with a colleague. There was a translation problem. Then answer the question and said yes. That that is our statement. Then i went on the same conclusion that we will be asking, november 26 there was a National Record amended. Of course that was not the view of takata. What has changed between then and now . Much. Much. One additional death. The one additional death. That certainly has changed. And taxes. That was also mentioned. A vehicle that have been recalled four years ago. But not to the owner. That is an important factor for the American People to know. A a very important factor. I agree. To your original question of what changed, at that time we had i think 8,000 tests done. Now we have 50,000. We have seen patterns emerge in some of the testing and data that we have accumulated. That has led us and all of the other testing and analysis that has been done by outside experts. We hired experts. You have seen the fraunhofer report. Moving on, the issue of ruptures was 1st known in 2,004. The 1st six this occurred in 2,009. So this has been ongoing problem of great significance. In the last six months how much have you been find . How much in total have you been find . I believe am asking for your answer i believe the tolls up to about 1. 2 million. Of you paid that . To my knowledge no. As part of the discussion and negotiation. They have agreed to suspended as part of the Consent Order, but they have reserve the right to incur further penalties as they see fit. Now, based upon your testimony to the chairman and Ranking Member is it possible that the placement airbags will continue to have Ammonium Nitrate in the . Yes. Some of them will. And you are confident that they will be safe for some time . We feel that they are safe. That is why as part of the Consent Order we are continuing to test outside of the scope of the recall and continuing to test to make sure that the remedy parts are safe. Should those who are having an airbag replaced ask whether or not the new airbag will contain Ammonium Nitrate . Im not really sure how to answer that. Are there new automobiles and the line. Yes. Thank you. You indicate that the rate of compliance drops dramatically. It is 15 percent for older vehicles . Explain exactly the years involved . I dont know that i mentioned exactly the numbers. You are exactly right. The trend is that further out the recall completely is lower. Second and 3rd owners. Difficult to find. Manufacturers are doing what they can. Thank you. In conclusion i am concerned about those vehicles that are purchased not new. People who might not be aware necessarily. This is a great concern and i want to work with you and others to make sure all americans are protected. The chair thanks the gentleman. Thank you and our panelists. The day before the subcommittee hearing in December Takata sent a letter with the rejected a national recall. The contention that it was not required by law. Not a manufacturer. Mr. Kennedy, this question was asked in december, but i want to hear from you now. Do you agree with that statement . It sounds like a lot of legal. I am certainly not a lawyer. It is now legal. It is very simple. It is your contention that you are not required by law to make a good faith determination. Conduct a recall because it is not a manufacturer of motor vehicles. I really dont know the answer. Very well. It is my understanding that takata have submitted to jurisdiction. I believe that would probably be the proper term. We have come to an agreement. Thats correct. Yes. Do you know do you now agree takata is subject to the jurisdiction at least as to laws and regulations related to safety related defects . Again, it is an area of your asking me a lot question that i am not really properly qualified answer. I can look into it and get back with you. We as its authority if thats the question your asking. We have worked hard to come to the agreement. Let me ask you, do you now agree to cut takata is required to decide in good faith . We clearly did say that a defect may arise. Is the kind of thing for placement airbags . Im not sure what you mean. Were selling them. Airbags that now need to be replaced. Correct. Are you paying for them. We are working with our automaker customers to discuss financial responsibility. What is that mean . That we are having discussions with each one of the automakers. Your not paying for. I wouldnt say were paying 100 for everything with every automaker. The negotiating what you will him will pay. Which is a normal course of business. Yes. A New York Times article stated takata said automakers share the blame for this massive recall because testing specifications prescribed by the Vehicle Manufacturers failed to uncover faults. That was one conclusion. Is that correct . We believe so. Can you explain. Whenever a supplier provides a product there is a specification your required to meet, a set of tests you have to run command we do that. We do that with every new product and they sign off. T