Her mothers folks are from virginia and probably her fathers as well. John converts to quakerism and they go off and live in North Carolina in a quaker community. As far as we know dolley was born there so she is North Carolinas only first lady. What is sad about that she spends most of her life denying it. We think it has to do with her fathers shady Business Practices and they move back to virginia. So shes raised in the world of slave holding. Her father released his slaves as a quaker. Is that the cause of his inability to continue his business . I think he had other problems besides that. He couldnt farm so they moved to that chilly Northern City of philadelphia. Im not sure if you know so much about her thoughts of slavery. How is it that she reconciled herself to actually having slaves in the white house . I think thats a good question. Im not sure i know the answer to that. But she did not free any of her slaves as her father had. And she didnt speak out against slavery so the quaker background there did not effect her slave holding. This is why historians have a hard job. Its a real dichotomy. Her father frees slaves and go to philadelphia. For ten years things are terrible for the pains in philadelphia. Children die. Her mother has to open up a boarding house. Shes pushed into marrying john todd. She has two children, one of them dies. Then shes this beautiful 25 yearold widow. And you could argue she could have had her pick of any man but she picks James Madison. Turns out to be a great pick. But why does she do that . Its one of those moments she said i could go back to the world i lived in but we dont have anything from her at the. What we do know is by the time shes a woman in middle age and old she has exactly the same kind of attitude toward enslaved americans that southerners had which is the inability to understand them as humans. When James Madison dies and doesnt free slaves, everyone begins to blame dolley. Part of that is fine because she starts selling slaves as soon as she can. What about her quaker roots affected the kind of woman she became if this aspect did not i think were back to the empathy thing. The peacemaking. The idea you dont make war. Do we know if she counseled her husband against going to war since quakers dont believe in fighting wars. We dont know. If you read her letters shes as partisan as anybody. She has the white house defensiveness. I think she probably supported him 100 in what he decided to do but her own nature was always to conciliate. How did dolley feel about womens education . What we know about her was she was a very well educated woman for her day, any class. Were not sure how she got there because she was a southerner and southerners did not educate their girls. We know from her handwriting that she was very well educated. She never had a daughter so we dont know what she would have done but im sure she would have given her daughter a good education. The quakers believed in educating women as well as men so she benefited from that. She takes that background with her into the first ladies role. What qualities did she see in James Madison when he was so much her opposite . Well, i think on sits attract many times. I think she was very impressed with his intellect understand private he was thought to be very amusing and very entertaining. And so i think thats the side of him that she saw while they were courting. And its interesting that aaron burr provided the link between the two. You get the sense of these people who were part of the american cannon were a small community. Its a small world. And James Madison fell in love with her and was very romantic. He was in his mid 40s and had never married which was odd. Marriage is a very pragmatic business in this age and love isnt necessarily part of it. So dolleys approach to the marriage was pragmatic. He would be a protector of her son. As the marriage went on she fell deeply in love with james. Marriage was a pragmatic business and she had a son to protect and property to be managed. And someone who would do that honestly and well. And had a reputation for running his own Family Plantation in virginia. Rick is up next in kansas. Hello. Good evening. You ladies are good. Thanks, rick. Two questions if you would. First, did ms. Madison travel abroad, if , so when and who did she visit . And among modern time first ladies who might she compare with . Did Dolley Madison travel abroad . I dont think she ever travel add broad. Diplomats were amazed by that because she was so converse nt and she was a diplomatic wife so they did marvel that she had that quality. And how did she get her knowledge of french fashions for example . If you were Dolley Madison, you could not go anywhere whether it was a city in america or france without having to shop for her. Also very early on she became the patriot jay of the french ministers wife and she schooled her as well. She hired a master of ceremonies in the white house who was french and familiar with all of the diplomatic niceties shall we say so that he would explain to her what kind of food was served and what the french taste was and what french qui sin was about so she had a number of people who helped school her in this type of thing. The white house staff is large d all of this come from the money that they were paid or from their personal wealth, all these extra staff and advisors that you talk about . Probably most of them did. For instance, one of the things she hired as they called him french john away from the minister from Great Britain which was a huge slap tofment hire somebody away from somebody elses household particularly when that person was in the Diplomatic Community was an insult on the one hand or a great coo on the other. And she was able to do that. A lot of resources went to creating the out fits. She got the bills and she was like dont tell my husband. Between buying the stuff and paying the duties on it, it was quite a lot. I wanted to ask you about the maryland component of this fleeing of the white house during the war. My understanding is that there is a house in brookville maryland that is called white house for a day and my understanding is that madison arrived at that house and conducted business from there and i wondered whether Dolley Madison was part of that or whether there was some kind of a transition from virginia to maryland . I do not know the answer to that question. That gives us another stop in this. Stump the panel. Another place to check out, the white house for a day you tell us about. I was going to go back and answer or give my opinion about the second part of the question was who would she compare to in the present. And i would say Jacqueline Kennedy. I think she looked at imagining her Husbands Administration and recreating the white house for the stage for diplomacy through her renovation of the white house in the same way dolley looked at the white house as a stage and imagined her husbands presidency. So i see a lot of comparable activity and things that she was trying to achieve as was Jacqueline Kennedy. And Jacqueline Kennedy referenced dolley. She was a fan and definitely referenced her in the re dog of the white house. And she had to love the french furniture. With regard to the renovation of the white house, if you go to the white house today, can you see evidence of the torching by the british . There are places in the basement where you can see burned timbers. I know when they did the restoration of the white house, they found a lot of charred wood and charred bricks and so forth that were taken out and saved as remnants from the fire. Were showing some pictures of some of the charring right now. You can see it on the trim of the balcony too. Laura bush told me president bush showed the prime minister. How complete it was destruction . Pretty complete inside. How long did it take to rebuild it . The mad sons didnt move back in. It wasnt until the monroes administration that they were able to move back in the white house so i would say a couple of years. About 18 minutes and its time to move. A complex part of our history and long life to the retirement after the madison administration. James and dolley return to their beloved montpelier in virginia and were going to visit that place next. If you were a visitor you would enter here and be shown into the madisons great drawing room. Mrs. Madison had many lady friends she would invite here. The daughters of Thomas Jefferson were also frequent visitors. Her most intimate circle included her families, her sisters especially were always welcome guests as well as many nieces she had who often stayed for extended visits here. The drawing room combined many different themes into one. You see many of the faces of the Great American statesman, but you see figures of classical antiquity. You have a reproduction of the declaration of independence. Have you a miniature of homer, the writer of the great epics of grease. Then you have a painting of pan and youths. This was 200 years old when they purchased it. In the way of blending the classical and american they were trying to place the events in world history. This is a room where all the guests would assemble before dinner and have a chance to meet one another and converse socially and casually and then they might be invited to dine in the dining room. After supper the ladies would adjourn back into the drawing room and maybe play a game and be served coffee and tea. This was a social center of the house. If you were a part of the intimate circle of friend you would be invited into the dining room from the drawing room. Here Dolley Madison in an unusual setting for the period would is it at the head of the table and her husband would is it at the middle of the table. Dolley would direct the conversation and james could engage in conversation with the people to his right or left. This table today is set for eight people but there could be as many people as 20 served in the dining room. That would not be unusual. She considered dining here to be more relaxing than entertaining in washington. She was less worried serving 100 people here than 20 in washington. Many important figures would be seated with them. Thomas jefferson was frequently here. James monroe was here. Henry clay. Margaret smith. Once while mrs. Madison was serving at the head of the table the Vice President offered to do the honors for her and she responded oh no, watch with what ease i do it. And he had to admit she did it with unparalleled ease. And looking at their life when they returned there, how was it compared to when they lived in the white house . I think they were besieged by people who wanted to associate themselves with the mad sons. Many visitors in addition to political visitors in addition to family and friend. Sort of like the washingtons and the jeffersons. Everybody wanted to meet the great percentages. So they had people in the house with them. Not only relatives but Many Political visitors as well. She was devoted to him and getting his papers together in that role. Was she happy doing that . Yes, that the point she loved her husband very much. That is where he wanted to stay and so she stayed as well. The descriptions of her at this time werent the same. Shes described as content, adam and eve in paradise. She definitely missed washington. She would write and say tell me all the news and she would complain a little bit i havent been out. Keep me up to date and let me know what is happening. For her own selfshe probably would have wanted to go back to washington for a visit but James Madison was going to stay put. She was 49 years old when she left the white house. He was 17 years her senior. She worked to involve him when he was in the last days of his final illness. Before we talk about her years back in washington because she lived until the age of 81 and was very much involved in the august. I have a couple of comments about Dolley Madisons clothing and fashion and then i have a question. I used to be a dozen at the North CarolinaHistorical Museum and we happen to have some of her belongings which includes the original of that red velvet dress we saw. Also we own a pink silk dress she wore while she was first lady. And what was interesting about that piece of clothing was when we had it conserved by the people of williamsburg virginia. They found that the tiny but tons on the front of the dress were filled with dried peas. So thats what her dress maker did for her with french fashion also as she grew older and her hair became very very thin, she did have some real human hair curls sewed into her turbins and put that on in the morning with her curls showing and she looked younger she thought. The way the greensboro Historical Museum came into possession of these wonderful items including beautiful silk shoes and carved ivory calling cases is they received it from some folks who brought a trunk at auction that was sort of a hidden treasure. And i want to know what these ladies know about the finding of that trunk that was hidden behind a wall. And i want to say it was in philadelphia. But i want to know how the person that had that hidden behind the wall got those very important things and had them . Ill answer quickly because i want to say this is happening in the 1950s and 1960s so not that long ago. The story of Ladies Historical Society found and financed this deserves a Television Program of its own. They raised money one Chicken Dinner at a time paid the sum of 25,000 to get this stuff. Is that close to where she was born s. That where the connection was . The ladies felt like she was North Carolinas only born first lady. You can go there now and see part of that. Dolley madison returns to washington after the death of her beloved james. How does she spend her years here . She become it is grand am of Washington Society once again. Because people know about her poverty but dont want to confront her with it, people in the white house, the tylers invite her to come to dinner on many occasions. The younger first ladies always ask her advice on entertaining and handling large crowd of people. So she becomes sort of an ex first lady advisor. And thats how she happened to do the match making between angel casington and van buren the son. Shes in the mix again and very much a behind the scenes player again. This is not a tragic ending. She manages to live a well known involved life. I think it was lonely without james. Eventually she sold. You remember this is her town. She worked for 16 years to build this town and the president s mansion as a symbol. It was under her tenure that the president s mansion got a nickname the white house. She can be credited with the nationalism around the end of the war of 1812. When she comes back to washington it is like the past came to light. She wore many of the same clothes. She was poor. But of coursed the this expect of making her seem like a relic from an rare was that her real name . It was indeed. Though again her niece tried to perpetuate this idea that she was named dorothy. But she was dolley and trying to figure out why her family tried back to the scandalous rumors about her sex al fair with Thomas Jefferson and they thought that was too common a name for her but she was dolley and her birth is recorded that way. With or without the e. You see it spelled sometimes without. Thats advertising. Now the icon. John is in pennsylvania. Yes i was wondering if Dolley Madisons first husband john todd was related to abraham lincolns wife mayor todd. I have no idea. Im going to say what is important about that is marry todd brooded that about. When mary todd comes to down decade later and Dolley Madison set the example. Mary todd tries to ride on her coat tails. But she does not have dolleys sense of tone. Shes tone death when it comes to that. Is it true dolleys son from her first marriage gambled away much of her money . That and drinking. That will do it. Yes. Did he continue his relationship with his mother in later years . No she did not. Your question about Dolley Madison . Im questioning whats the relationship between ms. Madison and ms. Polk and harrison. And harrison. I think the polks became friend. People wanted to associate themselves with dolley after she came back to the capitol city and it was cash shea by association so the polks often invited her to dine with them and take part in parties and so forth in the we should tell people about congress awarding her a seat. I call this her iconic phase when she becomes a symbol. Shes awarded a seat on the floor of congress with escorts. Shes the only woman to do it and for a woman to do it. There is a lot of attention being paid to her and she starts to become a symbol even as shes living. Did she avail herself in the debates 234 congress . One of the things she did for other women is that she would go to the debates and go and watch the Supreme Court argue and that allowed other women to do that as well. That was a way of bringing the women into a knowledge of what was going on politically so while they were part of this social network that she was setting up in washington, they could also be part of the Political Networks as well. She would get the women together and they would go up to capitol hill. She called them dove parties. Debbie on facebook didnt Paul Jennings give her money at the end of her life when she was so poor . Money and groceries, yes. You spoke about how she was writing a letter to her sister in the midst of evacuating the white house. How did it get posted or did she hol