Overall, writer for 30 years for Time Magazine. He had kind of a Time Magazine style. Some inverted sentences. Things that really didnt ring terribly well in a general book of this nature. So throughout, ive been out throughout the book, i went and kind of changed that a bit. And other than that, it was really the major change was just boiling it down and then adding those cursed quick notes. You acquired in 2009, how long did you work on the book . About three years. Going to show you video. Out of context. Out of the chronology of the book. But it shows some oratory of a couple of famous senators. The first is going to be huey long. Before we show the video, when was huey long in the senate and what impact did he have . He had a huge impact on the senate. In the senate for a short period of time, from the early 1930s until he was assassinated in 1935. But he, you know, decided that he was going to use the filibuster as a as a major legislative tool. He did it almost like no one before him had done it. The video is going to be 1935. Were cutting in the middle where hes talking about well, everybody will figure it out. Lets run this and get your comment on it. [video clip] how many men ever went to the barbecue and let one man take off of the table whats intended for 9 10 of the people to eat. The only way youre going to feed them people is go back and make that man come back with the grub that he got no business with. How are you going to feed the mouths of the people . Whats rockefeller and melon going to do with all of that grub . They cant eat it, they cant wear their clothes, they cant live in the house. Give them a yacht. Give them a pal lace. Send them to reno and give them a new wife when they want it. Thats what they want. Theres more to that. Its on youtube. And people really believe that he had a serious chance of becoming president of the United States. That he was line himself up to run in 1936 in a populist kind of campaign with lots of speeches like we just heard. He was assassinated the same year that was done. In the state capital in baton rouge. What was the issue . It basically is a disgruntled constituent who there was financial dealings. I dont recall the specifics of it. But he had a lot of enemies, a whole lot of enemies. Assassination was on his mind as well as the minds of the staff who tried to protect him. What did the fellow senators think of him . Not much. There were probably a few that that southern senators engaged in some of the same kinds of oratory. But one senator who despited him beyond definition was joseph t. Robinson from the neighboring state of arkansas. Joe robinson was the majority leader. Hes responsible to make the trains run on time. And huey long was the guy standing out there making sure the trains did not run on time until he finished his extended speeches, recipes for pot liquor, oysters, very amusing. But people said, the senate is going to blazes. The senate is not getting anything done. Whats going to happen to the senate . This is the new deal. This is trying to clean up after the great depression. We cannot afford the extended oratory. You have to take this man off of his feet. And somebody did. Some 40 years later of his son. His son, interestingly enough, was one of those who was opposed to television. He was indeed. Lets watch him 47 years later in the senate. [video clip] let me make this clear to you, mr. Rose, im not in bad favor on anything. I didnt make a deal to anybody. And i dont even know what deal youve made up until now. So that when i find out about i want, it may be something that i can vote for and it may not. I understand that. And i want to make it clear to you, to everybody here, that i couldnt care less what deal you made with somebody and why he agreed to this and why somebody agreed to that. What concerns me is is this bill good for the country. If it turns out to be a bill to control monopoly, it has to wait its place in line, take its turn. We have ten other monopoly bills out there. Russell long . What was the difference between he and his father . About 30 years. More moderate. A significant drinking problem earlier in the senate career. One of the best things that happened to him was narrate one of his Staff Members named Carolyn Carolyn long who indeed helped him get his act together and he became an extremely powerful and knowledgeable tactician on the senate floor. What changed . The method under which people arrive in the senate, the whole campaign procedure in the american senate, the first two chapters are about trying to answer that question. It there were senators, george aiken of vermont comes to mind who as late as the 1960s boasted his Campaign Expenditures amounted to 147. Today its multiple millions of dollars. They didnt have to worry about spending time with constituents. Come to town. Go four times a year. This is a long time before highspeed aircraft travel and they could settle in and get to know one another. Maybe get to know the family of their colleagues, whether they were republican or democrat, it doesnt really matter. And much slower kind of time for sure. Despite the National Crises they had to deal with. You mentioned Joseph Robinson from arkansas. We had video from mark pryor, the senator from arkansas talking about him. And once you hes called the, what, fightingest man in the United States senate . Lets find out what that means. In 1930, he was elected as arkansass governor but was immediately selected to fill a vacancy in the u. S. Senate. Robinson held three political roles within the span of two weeks. Robinson was the last senator chosen be i the Arkansas State legislature before the implementation of the 17th amendment that established a collection of senators. In the senate, robinson took on leadership roles including majority leader following his death in 1937, had dei introduced a resolution authorizing the acceptance of his portrait as a gift to the senate. The portrait was later presented to the senate by robinsons widow and friends. What did it mean about the fightingest man in the senate. General demeanor. He was ginn to rages. Face would turn scarlet. He would beat his breasts on the senate floor. Scream, well. As another senator, you wouldnt want to incur the wrath of joe t. Robinson because he did indes earn that moniker. Talked about when the senate changed because of direct election. What brought on the direct election . What amendment was it . Whos behind it . It was the 17th amendment to the constitution. The house on a number of occasions throughout the 19th century passed that amendment, sent it over to the senate, the senate killed them. I think one of the main reasons that southern senators had a strangle hold on the on the procedures and floor proceedings, who were very much afraid that if you have direct popular election, youre going to have africanamericans voting for senate. And that was something that until the jim crow laws began to really disenfranchise africanamericans, that was a concern. After by the term of the 20th century, they werent quite as worried about it. And then, of course, by the progressive reform movement. The election of 1910 really brought a sea change to the senate. Much more open for reform minded members and directly popular senators is one of the constant points for reform. And finally, it got through. What changed, then . I should add the main reason it got through, there were a number of rather terrible corruption cases. After it went into effect, one of the points that we make in this book, perennial question, did it make any difference to have direct popular election. We come down on the side, yes, id did make a difference. Senators began to act like house members. Its not something that any senator wants to hear. The names they were up scavenging for votes. They had to go out and deal with the people as opposed to if you have a state legislature and there are 26 members of your state senate, all you need is 14 votes and you can easily pay off and they did, inkleed, in some cases, pay off 14 senators by paying off paying off their mortgages in a couple of know tore yous cases. To buy their election. So after the direct election, significantly. 1914 election. Every incumbent to seek reelection won. Can you remember the last senator who served in the u. S. Senate who had been selected by the legislature in a state . I used to know that. I ive forgotten now. If you knew the name if you happen to recall the name, i would tell you whether you were right or wrong. I do not. Thats why i asked you. You may have recalled that. But i i did it go into the 40s or 50s . It did indeed. There was a senator from florida who you have to deal with on a daytoday basis. There are some things that you slip away. Explain what senator George Smathers role he played. A good friend of john f. Ken dip, theyre drinking pals. John f. Kennedy. They each contributed to one anothers political education. George smathers is remembered for the campaign against claude pepper. He defeated claude pepper. Some thought it was a scandal louse campaign. A scurrilous campaign. Theres a certain mythology, never tracked that down of George Smathers going around giving speeches saying, george clyde pepper has a sister whos a thespian, his brother has a brother that was a home same yen and on and on. Brother was a practicing whole book , say p. M. And on and on. Smathers denied all that. He did the oral history at the time that clyde pepper died to set the record straight. As my partner in this book neil mcneil said, he should left that alone. He would have gone down as the greatest wits of all time to come up with a campaign attack. Neil mcneil who you coauthored this died of what . 2008 . Cancer. I believe it was lung cancer. What was he like . He was large, deeply confidence in his own abilities. He had the power, and most senators knew this, to put a senator on the cover of Time Magazine. Or a house member. And he he did a book in 1963 called the forge democracy. He had been poking around since 1949. That was a popular become. That was a pretty popular book. The question was where is your senate book. Thats when we decided he would begin his research. Enormously tenacious. Hid say, i have a question on rules from 1911. I just cant find it. I ransacked all the resources and can you help me with that . Generally some will remember that he started a program before that that led to Washington Week in review. Did you talk to him about his beginning . Himself . He did not. He was proud of his role along with the society of Time Magazine along with Washington Week as they called it back in those days. Washington week in review. He did that for 12 years starting in 1967. A wellknown face on the circuit. Talking about l. B. J. Talking on the phone from the oval Office Conversations and see what else they can learn on this. [video clip] see what we can do. Yeah. Because russell is wild and hes with the doctors, isnt he . Yeah, yeah. But russell will shift in time. But we cant just come in there because, you know, youve asked and now youre suddenly change without destroying our own position. Good try, good try. You get over there and call me back on that damn bennett and rogers and ill go work on your ambassador and your judgeship. You hang those on the wall. If they have to have a canal or whatever they got to have, well do it. This is one vote i cannot lose. Charlie told every republican if you vote against me, youre out of the republican party, ill eliminate you. I got about 29 of these damn southerners like bennett and rogers and rogers from my own state. Some of them have taken walks for me. Some are going off. Some will say, hell, i have to get him to give me this canal. So see what theyve got to have and then lets get it. Lets get the two votes. What do you think . Classic. Absolutely classic. The majority leader of the senate, as he was in the 1950s, or the president of the United States, saying this is one vote i cannot lose. Everything else how many president s in your experience would make that kind of that call . Hard to think. Well, barack obama doing this . Can you imagine this will give you your bridge or is that good or bad. I suppose. Its both. It came withlbj personality. Another large man with fire in his eyes. Look at you, a junior senator. A chairman of the committee. You know he can shape the rest of your career in the United States senate if he chose to either help or stand in your way. You paid attention to him. Did you write the press . This is the line now wanted to expand on what does that mean . It means that most legislative bodies have upper houses that are only rubber stamps. Give us an example. France. Canada. The lower house passes the substance of legislation. Goes to the upper house. Maybe they dont likethe upper house kind of reviews it. It. Maybe they dont like it. They send it back to the lower house. The lower house said i respect your opinion but were going to pass it again and then it becomes the law of the land. The Italian Senate and the United States senate for sure that have absolute veto. Whats the history of why thats thought to be the way it should be. A Constitutional Convention in 1787. The major concern the house will be elected by the same peopleeligible to vote for the state legislative infections. Elections. Those people can be a little impetuous and their decisions sowell need a cooler body to review and slow down and as one senator said in the 19th century, the senate is the place of sober second front. Thats what the framers of the constitution had in mind. Sober second thought. Edward dirksen. Everett dirksen. What role in history does he play in the senate . Well, hes most remembered for making it possible to invoke closure on civil rights legislation. Cloture. What does that mean . To shut off debate with the proper amount of votes. At that point, they needed 67 votes to end debate on this 1964 Civil Rights Act. Southern senators were determined not to pass that. And it was Edward Dirksen who whomanaged toksen gather up enough of the republican colleagues to give them what ended up to be 71 votes to pass. That was huge. It was the First Time Ever that the senate shut off debate on civil rights legislation. And it was really the beginning of the end of southern filibusters on civil rights. Did you ever know him . I didnt. I saw him i saw him in action in the mid 1950s. When i came to visit the Senate Chamber one time. For many years in the 1970s and 1980s, i served on the board of ethics in the Research Center in his hometown in illinois. A really state of the art patterned research facility. Neil mcneil, the biography of derksen, thats still considered the best biography of derksen. You talk about show horses or workhorses. Was he a show horse or workhorse . He was both. A little of both. There he feels on the tournament of roses parade, grand marshal 1968. He was cutting record albums using his magnificent voice. I heard ken burns not too long ago at an event here in washington rep respond to a question what is your favorite story about the capitol. 1980 in congress. There was a story about ladies who came to stalk derksen outside of the door of his Republican Leaders office. He said, oh, ladies you wish to work with me . What can i say to you . What is it to you. And one of the ladies said, oh, nothing, senator, we just wanted to hear you talk. Hiss deep baritone voice was so theatrical. This is an outdoor theater circuit. Very proud of his voice. And was indeed an actor on the senate floor. But also, theres a deeply serious vein. People criticize derksen for being oliogenist. He was too infewsive. The grand old chameleon that he changed his vote, his position rather easily. I tend to think that although theres some of that, this is a man who really knew how to make the senate work the way that Lyndon Johnson did. Wish we had video of him talking about the marigold. The marigold to be the National Flower at the same time that Margaret Chase smith wanted the rose to be the National Flower. So theres wonderful exchanges. Derksen from an interview with howard k. Smith and abc in 1968. See what he sounded like. [video clip] do you think that any votes or minds are ever changed on the floor of either house in speech . Oh, yes. Not often, but sometimes. It depends on the nature of the subject matter and obviously on the type of a speech you make. I think its happened twice to me. Once on civil rights. Because i dug out that quote from victor hugo allegedly written the night he died in his diary when he said an idea whose time is come is stronger than all of the armies on earth. What was the other time. This is on a sugar bill. It was late at night. And i prepared for it. And we had full chamber. And i laid into it. And well several members came down and said, you changed are you hearing from your memories. Youre not particularly conscious of it yourself. Thats a key thats an excellent question. Do votes get changed by oratory on the senate floor. In the scope, we have a chapter on debate. In this book, we have a chapter on debate. Thats the fundamental organizing question in that chapter. Hes right, you know . Very, very seldom. But sometimes. Can you think of one other than the one you mentioned where somebody changed their vote . No. No. I dont. But if i knew more about it, i could think of one. I remember being in the chamber years ago when they had a vote back on excuse me, about 1970. On the abn, whether or not they have an antiballistic missile system. The guy that stood up and made the most dramatic speech was a guy named john pastori. When the world stood still and everyone held our breath and there stood john f. Kennedy ten feet tall. [video clip] ten feet tall, that determined, courageous, and strong, and, for the first time, for the first time, we saw Nikita Khrushchev take up his marbles and go home. [applause] john pastore, rhode island democrat. Didnt die until 2003. He was out of the