Public and private sector. Watch the communicators tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan2. The s week on q a, author of daring to drive a saudi womans awakening. You have a book called daring to drive. Why did you write this . I gave a speech, people cried at the speech, gave me two Standing Ovations this never happened in the history of that conference. When i came down the stage this lady came to me and said, when are we going to read your story. I told her, who would ever be interested in reading about my insignificant life . But that really sparked the idea of writing this book. When was that . In 2012. Where did you give the speech and why . It was Freedom Forum hosted by rume heights human rights foundation, based in new york, they invite activists from all around the world to tell their store roifs standing against tyranny and fighting for human rights. Lets start from the beginning. Where were you born . In mecca in the year of trouble, 1979. Your parents, what are they like . Where were they born . Yes, mom, shes from libya. North africa. She met dad because of fate. She met kept her hadge and met my father in mecca my father is from mecca. What is hajj . Once in a lifetime for muslims who are able, it is required to perform hajj, which is visiting the holy site of mecca and performing certain rituals to make your faith complete. Picture on our screen right now, what is that . This is my home city, mecca. I mess mecca. Who can go there and why do they go there and how important is it . Mecca, its for muslims only. Nonmuslims are not allowed to visit. Mecca and medina are the two holiest cities. You go for hajj once in a lifetime, or you go far visit, a small version of hajj that you can do any time of year, to visit the holy site of mecca. Do you have any idea how many people have died there at the hajj or in mecca around this cabba. Died for what . Saddam peds over the years weve read about them, so many people there that you might have thousands of people die . For happened a few times some reasons that they explained why. The last not the last i cant remember the last time it happened, which, over 1,000 died. But its not really open, the security there is very strict and they always have hundreds of thousands of people organizing hajj for the muslims. I did hajj myself as a devout muslim you do it once in your lifetime. The accidents happen in big gathers. Gatherings. When you talk about a million muslims in a small city the size of mecca, between mountain a valley between mountains, accidents does happen. What do muslims get out of going there . Whats the purpose . In islam you have five pillars of islam. To be full muslim, you have to fulfill these five pillars. The fifth pillar in islam, the first pillar, for example, is to believe in god, theres no god but allah and muhammad is his prophet. And the last pillar of islam is performing hajj. This is why muslims go to mecca to have the full faith, to become full muslims, i would say. How long do you spend there . For hajj, it depends on how long you want in there but for the hajj days itself, you dont have to be there more than a week. But people like to spend more time in mecca. Who paid for it . You pay for it,ern pays for himself. We believe that if you pray, so when we pray, god listens to our prayers but in mecca, each prayer you make its worth 100,000. Thats why its very important for the muslims to go there. You can pray one year and if you go to mecca, you stay there one year, the deeds you get from mecca, being in mecca, praying at mecca, its worth years of your lifetime. In your book, one thing i read your book, im not sure, maybe i missed it. But what would you say your muslim faith is today . Me . Im muslim. You believe. Againstieve in god, im one thing in your book when the prophet is mentioned, it says pbqh and the number seven. Its a sign of respect to the prophet muhammad. If i mention the name of any prophet, adam, abraham, moses, this, thanksintain to god for giving us, for leading us to faith, to god, the truth. Whats the most important thing to you about being a muslim . A lot of things. But i think the peace that you get being the muslim, the peace that you get believing in god. And its interesting that people have this misconception about islam, that its the ideology of hate we see today and violence. Its not islam itself means submission to god and the first and the first thing when you meet a muslim, they say peace be upon you. Its peaceful. It calls for morals. It calls for good deeds. It calls for a lot of good things in society that they want to have there. What we lost from islam is the preaching and the scholars, they are emphasizing on trivial things that made us lose the sense of islam which is being in peace with yourself, being in peace with the other, accepting mercy. We lost that when it became political. Political item. When did that start . Islam or any other religion, in the muslim world when you use one faith against the other you call them infidels. Any ideology used to gain power, thats when it becomes dangerous. Where do you live now . We just moved to sydney, australia. Thats where you live now . Yes y are you married . I am married to my second husband and we have a boy. Your first marriage ended in divorce. How is your the young man you had my first son. Hes right now hes 11 and my second boy, he will turn three next month. Why did you pick australia . Long story short my husband is working there now but he didnt want to go back to brazil because its violent. He wanted to go to a country where he can have a better life for our kids. For daniel. You tell us in your book a lot about your divorce. Yeah. Why . Not a lot, did i talk a lot in the book about the divorce . Enough. I just talked about, because it was so difficult for a woman to get divorced because shes not supposed. To dint get support from the family, they were against it. I explained its an abusive relationship. And the saudi court is not a friendly place to women. The its so hard for a woman to get divorced. Its really difficult. But for me when i got divorced it was kind of liberating. I left my husband. You talk about how you met your husband in the first place and another relationship you were interested in that didnt develop. Give us that, when did that all happen . My first husband a man you were interested in before you met your husband, you talk about your personal life and all that. What year did all that happen . My first husband was my first love, i wasnt interested in any men before. So i grew up in a society where men and women are regulated. My own cousins i cannot see they will. Once i got my period, once a girl reaches puberty she is not allowed to see men they feel on men i see in my life is my father and brother. The first time i interact with a man who was not my father or brother, i got my first summer job. I was 22, i remember it was interesting to see, to find i can work with all these men and talk to them for the first time in my life after reaching puberty. I dont know if im pronouncing it right. I got so many questions, actually, but it would last for a week and make sense later on because i was not allowed to be introduced to men, to know how they talk, what they think, even just talk to them. You couldnt that leads to bizarre situations that leads to bizarre feelings. What are the rules . And where do the rules come from on how a woman lives in saudi arabia . The first rule for a woman is her her place is her home. Not her job, not education, not the mosque, not outside. In her home. So its highly encouraged for us to stay home and if i ever want to leave the house it should be for urgency, for something really, really important. I have to have a mans permission to leave the house my husband , my father. Also the separation between the sexes. You find it in all, every where. If you go to a bank if you go to a government office. Always the men and women are segregated. The schools, the university. When i went to university, i never see my featurers, most of them were men. I never talked to them. I see the class on tv. This is how i used to see my teachers. We were not allowed to talk to them. She would n a class, call if you had a question, and ask the question. This is how you grow up. And the list of things you cannot do being a woman was huge drink anything in public, i was to cover my face, not to talk to men, it wasnt encouraged to use our first names. So in school they would call if my father is outside, im not aloud to be standing outside. They have to call me through the mike, the Security Guard , he calls through the mike or the gate keeper, he calls my father name. He doesnt call my name and the list goes on and on. Let me interrupt a second and show a picture, we have two still photographs i want to show you and have you explain it. This is the first one. This is in saudi arabia. They show the hands, feet, things are different now. We were fully covered and we one with the the face because in mecca its very different. Whats the difference between this and what you had . This is the new generation they dont accept to cover their face. Abbayas. Re wearing i insisted on wearing colorful scarves and i was totally different than everyone else. But now more and more girls wear the colarful abbaya. They are pushing the rules to be able to choose the clothes they want, the decent, modest clothes they want. But it shouldnt be black. How much of what saudi arabia requires of women is because of the prophet laid down these laws years ago . How much from is it from the prophet or is this created by this ekingdom right now, their own rules . Ok, there are rules from the prophet, for sure. But its all about the interpretation of these texts that comes from the prophet so there are, the five pillars of islam we follow. But there are rules that are meeting the are not 2017, the 21st century. One example, at the time of mohammed, they expect a woman when she travels to have a man companion. Makes sense because at the time when you travel, there will be chief thieves and killers, you would be in caravans and cam else. I dont need a guy to carry to come with me and protect me, hes not going to carry a gun to protect me. When the rules are taking from a book 1,400 years ago, it should be reinterpretted to meet the current situation. Thats problem we face with islam when they say you cannot interpret it any way but it should be done exactly the same way it was done in prophet mohammeds time. For example, cutting hands, you cannot tell me now we have correctional facilities and still cut hands. This debate is going on with a lot of courts. It terrifies me when they still insist we cut hands. Have you ever known anybody who had their hands off . Who . I havent known, but it was carried out in saudi arabia. I havent heard about it recently but it has been carried out in saudi arabia. What if you announced yourself, or they find out youre homosexual what happens . You get killed you cannot announce youre homosexual in saudi arabia. Religion is very i tried to stay away from religion. Im at peace with every single different faith and belief and sexual orientation. But if i mention these things in country, its you cannot discuss homosexuality in my country, for example. Its something that is it is something that is taboo that we cannot talk about in saudi arabia. I keep these things to myself and i am taught to teach these things without offending the believer. The things i believe should change in my country and has no base, in islam you are pushing on us. Brian would you explain and you mentioned this about your mother and your father and your sister and teachers and others that beat you as you were growing up. When you say beat you and your exhusband, what does that mean . When somebody define beating. Manal growing up, my generation was expected to discipline your kids with a stick, a bamboo stick. It was expected in the school if you dont behave you are disciplined with a wooden ruler so we were brought up this way. So mom and dad would discipline in the house if they thought we misbehaved. The same thing happened it in the school. One boy was killed because his teacher beat him badly. They ended it beating in the school. But the beating in the houses happen. There was antidomestic violence law that was passed, it is not enforced, but it is a good start to stop this cultural stats that you can physically abuse someone. Brian who beat you the most in your lifetime . Manal my sister. She did it the most. Brian where was the most severe beating, i am leading up to whether or not that was your exhusband. You refer to him as k. Manal i have my share of beatings growing up in saudi arabia. That ended, my marriage, it was because of physical abuse. Not only the emotional abuse. Brian what was his physical abuse be like . Manal with the hands, punching. Brian did you have any place so go when your exhusband was punching you . Manal in saudi arabia if you would go to the police and report the man, they would summon him and they were not to beat her again. The problem is she gets sent to the same abusers house. Girl who was 29 years old, she was beaten, she complained against her brother who is younger than her. Her father complained against her to drop the charges and she was sent to jail, not her brother. Social media when into frenzy, they let the girl out, six months later she is living an abusive house, she leaves the house, they put her back in jail for the crime of being absent from her abusers house. That is a problem that we dont have, even if there are shelters for women in saudi arabiya, its poorly, poorly managed because they treat those abused women, victims, as criminals. They lock them in those houses. She made the guardian to sign the paper to leave the shelter or jail. There is also a story of this girl who ran away from her abusing abusive family, they caught her in ma nilia. On her way to australia. They caught her in manila, handcuffed her and conduct taped her mouth. She is in jail. This is what happens to abused women in my country. Brian i want to play for you an interview in 2016 with turkey who was at the time ambassador of saudi arabia to the United States and we talked about women in saudi societies. Its not very long. About 40 seconds. [begin video clip] the most prized woman today in saudi arabia is a woman with a job. She is encouraged by her parents to go and find a job because she brings in income and they do not have to spend money on her. Her siblings look up to her and want to do like her. And adequately important she is sought after by suitors. I think this is what is going o happen to women driving to people going to common events together. Social change is what will drive these factors. [end video clip] brian what do you think of what he said, that was 11 years ago. Manal oh, is it . Brian where were you 11 years ago . Manal i was working at aramco. Brian what do you think . Manal i agree that social change is what we need in saudi arabia. I always and this is the beautiful thing about saudi arabia, by the way, the government invests so much in womens education. I got free education, i went to Computer Science college and women can study for their masters degree and phd degree and even bachelors degree fully covered by the government. They invest a lot in our education. The problem is, the frustration is when i go back home i dont find a job because we are only 14 . It was 11 like two or three years ago. Now were 14 of the work force. We are highly educated women, half of society but cant find jobs. And i believe a woman cant reach her full potential unless she gets a good education and has Financial Independence from the man so she cant rely on i do agree, an educator working woman is what saudi arabia needs today. Brian i want to show you an old video of aramco and i want you to explain what aramco is. This is a short clip to give you a sense of what it looks like. [begin video clip] his majesty, king of saudi arabia. He had faith that somewhere within these farreaching sands was a key to a richer life of the people who had known scarcity and want. Perhaps this country, so unproductive on the surface, might contain minerals on the surface, including oil. On may 29, 1933, after weeks of discussion, there was a meeting at the palace on the outskirts of jeddah. It was there that saudi Arab Government officials representing his majesty signed a concession covering 320,000 square miles, this was the starting point of a new American Business venture abroad. [end video clip] brian reportedly the company aram could he is worth between 1 aramco is worth between 1 trillion and 10 trillion. Nobody knows for sure. What is aramco . Manal right now it used to be he arraignian american oil company. The government in the 1980s but all of the shares. It became fully known by the saudi government. Now it is known as the arabian oil company. Aramco is in charge of producing oil, all of the oil field under the control of aramco is the largest in 2015, i believe, was the largest producer of oil in the world until america took over. Thats aramco. It was started by americans, now it is fully own by saudis, but it did inherit the Discrimination Laws against women from the americans and was not changed in the last 80 years. The Company Started in 1933. 1933. Brian so youre blaming america for the discrimination against women . Manal this is an interesting thing. When the Company Started, and i know women who worked at aramco before it was owned by the saudis. There was a lot of discriminative laws by americans against women in this company. Thats interesting. The saudis inherited it and kept it. Maybe they created their own rules. I dont really know the history. It is a very secretive company, they tried to keep a very low profile. They dont like bad publicity and theyre going public next year. They like only to see to keep their low profile. In my book, there is a whole chapter where i bring up a lot of policies that are in just injust and discriminating against me for not only being a woman but also being a saudi Woman Working at aramco. Brian what were the years you worked there . Manal i join in 2002. I quit my job in 2012. It was the only place for me, we were 60 girls graduating from computer college, we were only two girls from that whole 60 girls class. Got jobs. I was very lucky to get a job with aramco. Because for me at that time in 2002, there were no jobs for me. To work anywhere. Brian what was the difference between living in the aramco compound and living in the rest of saudi arabia . As al when i joined in 2002, a saudi woman i was not allowed to live in the compound. I was not allowed to live a not even allowed to rent an apartment outside the compound. The government wouldnt allow me to rent an apartment as a woman. I was not even allowed to stay in a hotel because the government also would not allow me to rent a hotel room without a man. It was 2007, out of policy the company allowed women to live in the compound. That is when i got my divorce. When i found a place to stay, i eft my marriage. Starting in 2007 at the company. Brian w