Organization ando political organizations its clear over the past several electoral cycles the Koch Brothers and others associated have pumped likely hundreds of millions of dollars particularly into nonprofit political organizations. And this is where it really gets technical but also gets very important in the sense that these types of organizations which are not supposed to have a primary purpose of engaging in politics are still spending tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars collectively to engage in the political process, and this is really where the row begins. Where the argument that harry reid and plenty of other democrats have articulated saying fine, play politics, get in politics but we should know who truly is behind it. Can either of us put a dollar figure on how much money the Koch Brothers have put in the system in in part no, because we dont have the information by law to put such a dollar figure on their pending. Host based on that, lets take a step back. Who are the Koch Brothers and how do they make their money and why are they so act ive and who are they aligned with . Guest they are two of the most wealth i didnt individuals in the country and industrialists in the broadest sense and involved in oil refineries, georgia pacific, the Paper Company and a variety of things throughout the country under the broad umbrella of Koch Industries and libertarians at heart. You might not really associate them first and foremost with the Republican Party because so much of what they are about philosophically speaking of what they are driving for are free markets, free enterprise, the ability to do business in this country without rules and regulation and Government Intervention thats going to prevent business from being successful, from earning money, so much of the money they are donating are going to these Nonprofit Groups and a lot of their detracters call it the chtopus where its just a nerve center with arms spread out throughout the country with all these organizations and groups that effectively try to involve they musts in certain issues that support the Koch Brothers philosophies or elections supporting candidates who in turn will support those types of philosophies, the center to protect patients rights and the future fund and several different organizations that demonstratively that we have been able to track and other organizations have been able to track back to the Koch BrothersDonor Network or the Koch Brothers themselves. So its ooh very, very Massive Network that then able to put in place and they have been very successful for the large part to secure the identities and the dollar figures of their donors, of their supporters. We dont know a whole lot about some of these groups. We know what they do and support but who is actually running them and behind them and pulling the levers and how much money they are injecting in it is difficult to ascertain even though we have had success in ferretting out where the money is coming from and where the money is going. Host based on the historic Citizens United ruling everything they are doing is perfectly legal. Yes. Guest and another point you made earlier, who are the Koch Brothers . A lot of people, particularly liberals on the democratic side would like to paint them as these mono crow matic aforementioned free market but at the same time, too, its important to note that theres plenty of shades of gray here. Theres a bit of a stratification in the operations that they are interested in. For example, in definite fairness to them, they are some of the biggest backers, particularly david koch of the arts. He loves the ballet and the arts in new york city. He has donated tens of millions to them, if you ever watched nova on pbs, a particular big supporter of that too so as individuals they go beyond the political sfeer and have more many years although their political involvement really is at a height in the 2012 election cycle and the 2014 cycle were now in. Host but to give a sense of how the Democratic Party is reacting, this is a website its called koch addiction. Com dscc says he republicans are addicted to koch and keeping track of where they are spending and Background Information on the Koch Brothers themselves. And this really points to the idea that the 2014 election cycle is largely at least early on going to be about trying to demonize not a particular candidate on the republican side or the Republican Party in and of itself but using the Koch Brothers as the foil to try to number one on the senate side try to regain control of the senate which democrats desperately want to do although it seems difficult to maintain the house but all the while the Koch Brothers have been very much at the heart of this all as a fundraising and motivation tool. You need an enemy. You need a vinl. They have found their villain and enemy in the Koch Brothers and until further notice expect home the keep pounding that drum as hard and fast as they can go with it. Host and this is how they are doing it. Meet the Koch Brothers. Car christian against and Greenhouse Gases and also the website pointing out no obama care, lower wages, no social security. Tax breaks for billionaires and who will gain much from the Koch Brothers . Corporate tax breaks, looser regulations tax loopholes and outscoresing jobs. Guest you can talk about issues until youre blue in the face and all those issues very key and important to democrats strategy and the heart of their philosophy in 2014. But if you dont have somebody to personify those issues or again a villain to present to somebody who is fighting against the issues that you care about, oftentimes its very difficult to connect with your voter base, with your potential supporters, the people who will elect you in november when the midterm Elections Come around and its also important to note too that the democrats are playing this game to an extent too. They do in a different way but still an important key way have plenty of billionaire backers or multibillionaire backers who are playing this political game of unlimited money. Sometimes a lot of people like to call it dark money. Forthcoming money into Nonprofit Groups or less dark if you will funneling it boo super packs which are these types of organizations that have only been around a few years that can nonetheless raise and spend unlimited or ts of money to for against a political opponent. One has been adamant about getting involved in the political sfeer even environmentalists so in a way democrats are holding him up as an elicksor to fight dollar for dollar with the Koch Brothers but somebody who is going to be very supportive of Environmental Issues and at the same time they dont the party dont have direct control over his actions so he is in a way a free agent doing what he sees fit using the laws instituted in this country particularly in the aftermath citizen united sers verse federal election case in 2010 which really set all these things in motion and animated the political system we have right now. The democrats are getting smart to it and read if they dont engage and play this game then they do so at their own peril which is why you see more and more democratic aligned super packs, nonprofit organizations that are getting politically active that are very liberal in the way they operate. They may not be matching the republicans or conservatives but definitely playing the game at a much more aggressive level than they were in the 2010 election cycle and even in the 2012 president ial election cycle. Host go going back to the george soros s of the world, can we expect a campaign against these bundlers helping out the Democratic Candidates . Guest maybe but not in the way the democrats are going after the Koch Brothers. The republicans have always held wealthy democratic supporters as being their foils on the other side but youre not seeing anything at least in the 2014 election cycle coming from the republicans going after the democratic donors in the way youre seeing it going the other way around. The republican sort of have their own problem right now with outside money in the sense that we reported recently that during the first two months of 2014, that of all the money that has been spent to directly advocate for or against candidates running in the 2014 midterm cycle, about one out of err five dollars spent is coming from demonstratively conservative organizations and attaching republicans with it, those groups are actually spending more money attacking republicans than democrats during this early portion of the 2014 election cycleso it really speaks for the fight Tea Party Versus main stream and conservative verse vs. More moderate or pain stream as well. And you have these primaries in kentucky with Mitch Mcconnell and several other key federal primaries throughout country where theres just a heck of a lot of infighting going on. Some might say its tenant amount to a republican civil war. If its not to that level its at least to the level of significant battles all across the country and broadly to the idea of the tea Party Struggle within the Republican Party and whether the Republican Party wants to move more to the center or to the right. Host Dave Levinthal with politico a graduate of Syracuse University and now with the Public Center for public integrity. From ohio, good morning. Caller im from athens, ohio. But im glad to be on here. Im glad for somebody to stand up and talk about the Koch Brothers and this is the national ji graphics one day about they told all about how putin gets back in there, he has been in there trying to tell them to invest in the United States. They own 2 3 of the United States. They can george bush had come in and won 2006 if im not mistaken he turned up donate anything, open money to the campaigns for political elections. Why cant that be stopped about donating so much . On there about so much you can put in on political but he got Koch Brothers got case again near ohio. We watched the video where the elections are 15 minutes down from taking all of them and the Koch Brothers come in and even told them they put in 145,000 votes for him. He was not elected here. He was bought. Host abby, thanks very much for the call carolyn had this point as well along the lines. Money is not speech. Its assistant amount to briarry and buying rep resentation. To both these points, david lauter . Guest first of all, in this country you can still not donate unlimited amounts of money directly to a candidate. If i am a rick donor and i want to give you a million what i can do is take that Million Dollars and say, all right, im going to use that to buy Television Advertisements and facebook ads and twitter ads and going to independently support your candidacy. Thats pretty much the way that its working right now because of the way the law reads in this country because of that continual prohibition in being able to give unlimited amounts directly to a campaign. But in practical terms its the second best thing for political operatives or political actors being able to independently use the money to run in a way a pair level campaign. So thats where that particular situation is working right now. And nick makes this point. You can share our thoughts. Alex from New Hampshire on our line. Caller thank you for taking our call. And thank you for the facts on the Koch Brothers. Two quick questions. Im concerned about the Mainstream Media not mentioning how much george soros, unions, bar associations donate nearly 100 of their money to the dnc and the democrats and that kind dollars pails in comparison to the Koch Brothers. Are he second point is why people not offended and why is arry reid not excoriated for constantly giveing the floor and excoriating the law abiding citizens . Guest the caller makes a very good point that there are little rab democratic donors putting money into the citizens. A lot of democrats like to demonize the Citizens Uniteded as a terrible thing but they are gaining from the rule because to know if it takes 30 yards for them to get a first down and ten yards for the republicans in a cash sense theyre going to be in big big trouble and they realize that in no Uncertain Terms in 2012 when one of the biggest critics of Citizens United president barack obama effectively said i give my blessing to have a super pac formed on my behalf to raise and spend money to support my election. He realized like a lot of democrats that even if they dont like the decision, even if they disagree, theyre going to have to abide by the law in order to stay competitive with republicans. But to speak to that callers point and your previous caller, the i. R. S. Is going to be a big player Going Forward in the way that the rules and regulations may or frankly may not change for future election cycles. Right now as we speak, the i. R. S. Is considering a whole new slate of rules that would cause these socalled 501 c 4 organizations, Nonprofit Groups, that are supposed to exist to ben fift the social welfare or not engage in politics as their primary purpose, the i. R. S. Is considering saying, look, none of that any more. Youre not going to be able to be a 501 crrn 4 and work in the policecal sphere and work in the way you are right now. But its very controversial and a lot of liberals and democrats dont like the potential rules because in a way it goes farther than that and doesnt speak just to political activity advocating for and against but talks about voter education, Voter Registration drives, having a candidate come to your Nonprofit Group and speak before them immediately before an election season. So there were tens of thousands of different comments that had been sent to the i. R. S. And had been logged with the i. R. S. During the Comment Period that was open in preparation for the i. R. S. To considering these new rules theyve proposed and most of those were negative even coming from a lot of liberal and democratic groups in addition to republican groups. So this is not a black and white issue, not just republican versus democrat, conservative versus liberal. People want to win. If youre in politics youre going to use the tools at your dispostal. Oftentimes the rule that you have that you have to play by or not. Youre going to use them to the best of your ability to get what you want at the end of the day, which is to win elections in november. The last couple of weeks the Senate Democratic leader has gone to the senate floor taking aim at the Koch Brothers, part of a larger effort by the democrats to use the Koch Brothers as what politico is calling the 2014 version of mitt romney what we saw in 2012. One of our viewers saying republicans are not addicted to the Koch Brothers, republicans are owned by the Koch Brothers. Lets lets listen to mike. Caller thank you for taking my call. I never know where to start. I cant ever cover all i want to cover but what i want to say is im glad a lot of the previous callers have recognized between whats the difference between soros and the Koch Brothers as far as directing their money . And i was a republican for a long time and i registered independent about part 10 years ago for the reason the republican doss not strategize like the dracts do. All theyre doing is trying to redirect somebody elses attention on or direct the attention of the lowinformation voters on the moral bankruptcy of obama. Thats simply what is their point because soros is doing the very exact same thing that they claim the cokes brothers are doing. But theyre doing it conservatively. Host thank you. Guest hillary is a fascinating case in the senses that she is not a registered candidate. Most people think she is probably going to run for president in 2016 but she hasnt yet. It may be another year before she decides but yet theres multii believe super pacs that have germ nated and sprung up over the past year and are raising millions of dollars because they have the ability to do so to support a potential Hillary Clinton campaign. So yes were in the 2014 mid term election cycle and yes the 2016 president ial election is nearly 3 years away but we already have because of the way the laws read in this country the a