Transcripts For CSPAN Russian Foreign Policy And Ukraine 201

CSPAN Russian Foreign Policy And Ukraine April 27, 2014

Sense of the content is different, the technology is different. But the strategic purposes remain the same. To e are both tools influence how we think, how thers think and other understand in many cases better than away did. Understand soft a er been we do exactly as y geopolitical competition. This is something we can be very good at. We are just at it moment in as good. Ware not to bring oes it take position, the leading becoming once again the leading power there is a challenge to us and the administrations to come. Thank you. Thank you very much for a onderful panel and thanks to all of you for coming for this great discussion. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2014] today a panel asking hosted the Washington Post behind n. S. Afpa. Es surveillance. A team of recently won a pulse cancer on the leaks. Tonight at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Counsel had ay the a discussion with the former russian Prime Minister. Leader of the russian opposition party. Set the Foreign Policy for vladimir putin. Executive Vice President moderated the event. Theis isn an hour about an hour. Good afternoon, everyone. Executive Vice President at atlanta council. Glad to welcome you on utins Foreign Policy with the former Prime Minister and minister of washington. This is driven by the crisis in ukraine and we will focus on aoefrpblgt we will focus on trying to better destabilize tins ing activities. Engines original to last fall back when the guest of honor and the an island much on having a debate on the future of whole and freepe russia ares place was. It was khraltd then. Conversation on crimea at that time that were prescient. Ly but it was then that he raised the idea of coming to washington and speaking about an alternative Russian Foreign view. Y tonight we will have a chance to focus on ukraine today and what happen it means. Off i will invite to introduce the guest. Hes been a longtime voice in on russia. The president of Freedom House a former Top State Department with russia and ukraine but also served as assistant secretary for democracy. You to the podium, da dave. The floor is it is a pleasure and honor to be here to introduce my good friend mikhail kasyanov. I will be very brief because you are not here to hear me. Youre here to hear from mr. Kasyanov. The Current Crisis underscores that how a regime treats its own people is also indicative of how it will behave in its foreignpolicy. Thus we shouldnt be surprised when we see putin supporting bashar assad in syria in the slaughter of the syrian people, nor should we be surprised when we see putin trying to block efforts by his neighbors to move in a more western direction, to try to democratize, to ride to respect the rule of law, to respect human rights, all the things that are anathema to ladimir putin. These are examples where we see in the latest crisis putin professing concern about the welfare of ethnic russians or russian speakers or whatever phrase you want to use in crimean, in ukraine when he doesnt give a damn about the welfare of russians living nside russia itself. The paradox is quite triking. The situation inside russia perhaps not focused on as much in light of the Current Crisis is getting uglier by the day in what was already a very ugly situation. Just in the past couple of days weve seen legislation being considered at would require bloggers who have more than 3000 visitors per day to register with authorities, possible travel ban on Police Officers and other Law Enforcement authorities, further penalties for participating in unsanctioned demonstration or publishing information that is deemed as harmful to the russian government or the russian ilitary. Mr. Dur h. O. V. Has just left the country the latest of Many Russians who decided the situation is untenable for them to stay there. The sergd highest number of Asylum Seekers come from ussia. Dismissal because of the Current Situation in ukraine. The latest conviction yesterday. It is the latest setback in the ourt decision. This is the term that putin used in his speech on march 18. It is eerily reminiscent of soviet rhetoric and soviet language. I must say that im very proud to be here today with one of those people who has now been identified as a national traitor, mikhail kasyanov, who is called that because of his bravery and his courage. Because it is easy for people in the United States, including myself, to stand here or to write columns and articles that criticize putin and his behavior and his actions. It is so much more difficult for People Living in russia to speak out and to criticize and o offer alternative views. We have seen turnout of impressive numbers a few weeks ago, 50,000 people protesting russias war against ukraine, but there are also political leaders that have to step up and have to muster the courage against serious threats of harassment, arrest, detention, nd possibly worse. Sadly, there are far too many examples of that. For those who criticize the russian opposition for being too disunited, for being feckless, for being on of it unappealing to russian voters, put yourself in their shoes and think about how you would act if you were in their situation. It does take a very brave soul to speak out these days against vladimir putin. Mikhail kasyanov is one of the leaders in doing so, former Prime Minister in russia from 2000 to 2004, minister of finance before that. Currently cochair of the Republican Party of russia, the peoples freedom party. One of the most consistent and brave and courageous critics of vladimir putin. It is my honor to introduce ikhail kasyanov. [applause] thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, it was a great pleasure for me to be here with you today here in washington this afternoon and to share my views on oreignpolicy. We wanted to discuss at length here in washington, the described to you how we could you potentially a Brighter Future how we could view potentially a brighter uture. Unfortunately, the situation has escalated so much. The whole world is concentrated on events in russian and ukraine relations. Just a few years ago we had some kind of deterioration on International Arena, too. I mean,several times mr. Putin stated that the newly established states and territory of the former soviet union were independent states had not quite full legitimacy. Just sovereignty. And he promised that if he would feel that something should be changed to their changed there, he would step in. T happens soon after 2008, the nato summit in bucharest. Went to the countries, like georgia and ukraine, just wanted when two countries, like georgia and ukraine, just wanted consideration to join the summit and they didnt get the proper answer. A few months after, Russian Troops invaded the territory of georgia and it was a real disaster. There was a real war. A lot of casualties. And it was a special plan designed by the European Union with the support of the United States, designed to regulate all these activities, all these problems. And it happened a few months after. Business turned to be as usual. Hey continued to implement socalled mistrill conflict. German companies consolidated and pressed their government into getting laughable contracts, into getting profitable contracts, etc. Mr. Putin thought and is absolutely right that the west is weak, their leaders just cynical, thinking only about elections, and him, he could perform in that manner we he wanted. Having in mind that his egitimacy is the lack of ling legitimacy inside the country he needs to draw on this legitimacy outside. Initially, that was just hissing and hugging sessions with europeans and other leaders kissing and hugging sessions with europeans and other leaders. These days it is a bit different. Having in mind that west is not consistent in implementing the romises, implementing pursuing the tough policy especially for human rights violators they are full of different claims from russian citizens, claiming violation of their ights. And having this in mind, that became absolutely clear that putin is free of any for any activity. He got a special ticket issued by the west for undertaking those efforts and such ctivities. Oday what we have now putin again thought before making the decision on ukraine and crimea he thought that the west gain would digest everything he could undertake and will continue to have lipservice to socalled universal values. Only in the paper, it sounds uch a way that all politicians are devoted he could undertake and will to practice, when it valueshappens with russia, they dont form this way or criticize enough the russian government for not keeping its international obligations. Today the situation appears to be a little bit different. Mr. Putin and his team didnt expect the west would react so in immediate manner and such and i will say with such effective measures. Effective measures means individual, targeted sanctions. Me and my party, we have we are for such sanctions. They are not just against people of russia. They are not against the russian federation, our state. They are sanctions against those people who wanted to destroy european security, established after the second world war. In fact, i would say these sanctions are already bringing ppropriate effect. Some changes in place, but it is in effect. These people who are ready these are already creating ear. Tand i feelmy friends abroad got some kind this throughof contact with the ligarchs and these foreign friends pproach me, what will be next . My recommendation would be for the u. S. Government, of course, tomorrow. That is the major undertaking. Immediate enlargement of the list of sanctionsthat is a very effective measure. I would that would prevent the discussion the promising just to implement tomorrow sanctions against russia. When i was a finance minister and Prime Minister, i fought with the opposition politics ere many years for many years just to stop application finally we got it. It is absolutely the right decision. There is new technology, 21st century. We should not punish people, not nations, just those violators of human rights or of european security. Thats the way we should go. That will bring appropriate force. Secondly, my feeling is that the regime is being already on olingd on the way for death. With the situation we have now, mean it is already inevitable that economic environmentthe region will collapse. But with such potential that we have now, that will add and speed up the process. Why i see and analyze this way, first, we are repeated for a year and a half, we dont have growth of industrial output. Already more than six months we dont have gdp growth. The first four months of this year already show the gdp declined. The figure was announced by the government just a little bit higher than zero. That is already declining. International reserves of the central bank, while they look like a huge 477 billion euros u. S. Dollars, in fact, that is not enough to keep the whole country to live in the same style that we have now. All citizens live on imported produce. 90 of food is imported. 90 of medicine is imported. And it would mean it would mean normal input would not be available for people. Moreover, russian statehood is not quite as high because we managed to sell this problem with u. S. And other countries, but corporations already borrowed a lotit is approximately 300 billion. Of debt of those orporations. And if the International Banks will not be so eager to make this rollover, not under the sanctions, under instruction, but under software recommendation, it will be much higher, more expensive, and not available for everyone. It means that immediately, just approaching the west on Capital Markets would be necessary. Without the support of the United States government and the government of the European Union, it would not be possible to obtain appropriate funds. As long as russian government, mr. Putin feels this, there will be immediate change. Right now, he is bluffing, thinking that you are not consistent enough and will not issue this policy. Solidarity shows that not everything is tradable, as mr. Putin thinks and believes. I think we have a very Good Opportunity to resolve the problem with ukraine and crimea. Secondly, just to tackle the problems in russia. My recommendations on ukraine first, the western community should ensure that may 25, announced elections take place and run successfully and the results are credible, the elections are free and fair nder supervision of and all necessary organizations and visible for everyone that everything is all right. That is actually necessary for stabilization. Secondly, ukraine needs immediate imf will provide the first tranche. But there are many other creditors. Usually all assistance could be provided under special promises of the government. But one year another package is absolutely possible to allow the government to stand up, to be strengthened, to walk out of these reforms supported by the whole world. It is an absolute necessity. The third is moral help for ukraine government and ukrainian people and their fight for their sovereignty and their territorial integrity. Important point also on ukraine is just to help them to ease dependence on gas supplies from putin. It means they are trying to of the obtain gas supplies from the european network. I think that is very good. For russia, in terms of russia, a weakening of cohesion of by individual sanctions that ill absolute bring effect. Secondly, create conditions for energy, to ease Energy Dependence of the european countries. It means alternative sources of energy. We know that leaders of the European Union are already giving within a short period of time, they would have a buildup of supplies. That would be absolutely difficult for putins regime to stop reduction production. You cannot stop exportation of natural gas, but you continue to supply. T is inevitable. The third of course is that there is support of russian ordinary people just to continue to ease this region issuing visas to travel and see possibly says so they could travel this regions visas so they could travel, to see how people live, all these things that are necessary to understand what it means in ractice. I think with these all three directions together we can achieve a real change. Now just a special moment when the west consolidated, consistent measures possible and necessary. Thank you very much. Mr. Kasyanov, thank you very much for those remarks and setting up the context of what the crisis means in russia and also in the region. I want to pick up a few comments that youve made and then turn to the audience to bring them into this conversation. First, could you offer for us your vision of what a healthy relationship what the relationship between russia and ukraine should be. Even in conversation of the debate what kind of response, there is a recognition that russia has a long standing relationship with ukraine. Describe the nature of what you think should be the relationship between moscow and kiev. First of all, just an and i stated this publicly and thats absolutely right way, at priority for the policy for ukraine is Foreign Policy. The historical roots are very close. Thats absolutely natural. And we have quite good relations in one period of time. That time i was in power. And that time there was prime just er in ukraine and we achieved a lot. We settled all the problems of gas debts which the ukraine didnt pay for quite a period of time and just we instead of criticizing and trying just right now just pressing pay and pay, just created a special program. And support and trade. We reduced tariffs so that to make them make money on the russian market just to produce to sell more. And that was good. We have also quite the benefit, a number of enterprises in ukraine which produce products for russia and integration that also comes from the soviet ukraine has ay problems mostly in all sectors. Industry and heavy industry they managed with big industrials to modernize their enterprises but still theyre not quite i would say consistent. Market trade on the and free market with the European Union i think is also good benefit. I also thought at that time that russia would lead better integration or close integration with the European Union and ukraine i also could also join us and at that time we were an example, a good example for Democratic Development and market reforms. But now just of course nobody russian to follow example. Theres some debate in european capitals right now about the eus approach in the runup to the euro at the summit, Association Agreements. What was your take on ukraines process of negotiating the Association Agreement with the European Union and hearing from moscow a concern that would mean a weakening, a severing of the economic tie that is are deep with russia . The problem is the government made the right scene just announcing that one of the goals of the policy would be having an agreement with the European Union and he even managed to ensure people supporting him in Eastern Ukraine thats the right thing and the majority of o the population supported that. But then two weeks prior to signing this agreement he started to study the documents and understood from the documents and also signals from moscow from mr. Putin that this docum

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