Transcripts For CSPAN Senator Cardin Speaks At Council On Fo

It was hosted by the council of attorney relations and ran just ver an hour. Good morning everyone. Welcome to the capitol Fund Relations and the future of anticorruption. Im shannon, and senior fellow at the capitol as well as the director of Civil Societies that is hosting this event. We have seen in recent years, recognition of corruption, serious. Breath to the nations that it occurs and u. S. Foreign policy. Corruption towards investment nd commerce, intensifies and drains Development Dollars and prevents dollars by undermining the functioning of institutions. And corruption erodes trust in their governments and drives em towards radical insurgencies that threatens our count try. It is crucial that the United States address these threats. This means and requires evaluating past approaches what has and hasnt worked and working with constitutional partners and these issues we are going to get into today. We have an Impressive Group of speakers, those that have been on the front lines of developing these policies. Include former and government firms, legal experts and leaders of nongovernmental organizations. We are going to start off this morning hearing from senator cardin and he is instrumental and he is a long time advocate of a more asserttive approach of addressing corruption issues abroad. We look forward toe discussions and welcome the senator up to the stage. [applause] snardsnards good. We dont need to go through it. But he has been speaking about these issues for many years, first at the state level in maryland and in the house and the senate. Let me start asking you about your 30 years, close to 0 years in washington, you have dealt with a lot of Foreign Policy challenges, dealt with wars, and refugee and all sorts of issues and amid all of these, where does corruption rank . Senator thank you very much for holding this series of discussions dealing with corruption. You have to be careful, because there are outside forces. We scheduled this about a month ago and we had snow and today im here to try to get away from a Nuclear Fallout in the United States senate. [laughter] senator there are outside forces working here. But corruption, you talk about my experiences. When i first came to congress, i got involved in the helskinki commission because i saw the human rights and the values of america. Americas strength is in its iss values. What we stand for. And when this period of history is recorded, im certain the success of america in bringing down the soviet union and advancing democracies around the world will be the values we stood for. Not our military. Our values. Our values are human rights and anticorruption. That is what we stand for as a nation. Housecalled to the white to a National Security Committee Meeting ony corruption. Corruption is the cancer spreading that is affecting the welfare of the Global Community. It leads to crime and syndicates. There is a void where terrorists can thrive. It is a circumstance in which we find that when we do not fight corruption, we have governments that are not stable. We do see the protests going around the world. People want an honest government. It is robbing people of the wealth of their countries. We can give you many, many examples. Recent. Ite the most we are combating a problem in of famine. Rica millions of people are at risk. When you look at transparency, and index on corruption, they countries. This is a famine that has caused conflict and lack of governments. Its not nature. That is not why people in sudan and south somalia are starving. We have to deal with this. There will be more wars, less and it will not only be americas National Security. It will be the globe. Tonnon let me turn legislation on this. This is the anniversary of the passed in 1977, the first foray of the United States into facing corruption abroad. Per u. S. T u. S. Participation, what achievements have been made . Where are we lacking . Where is the record . Shannon i smile sen. Cardin i smile little bit because ive been in other countries, companies where they tell me that there is a quota for u. S. Government because they cannot be involved in corruption. Question we have made strides in fighting corruption. The challenges are terrible. Today, we are facing a Global Community where there is a question as how important corruption really is. The number one example is russia. Lubricant thathe allows mr. Putin to do what he is doing. He is a master at deception. So, he creates problems around the world so his population has this nationalist view about putins leadership that allows him to stay in power. Legitimate, the progress we are making in fighting corruption is compromised. So, yes, u. S. Leadership has made a difference. But we still have a long way to go. We have lost momentum. Russia is moving their foot print their footprint will be on europe. We saw their attack here in the night is ace. We saw what they are doing in the middle east. We saw their attack here in the United States. We have a challenge ahead of us. Shannon we have had some achievements, some progress, perhaps some back slipping. What should the United States due to address that . I know you just introduced a bill. Talk about that. It was passed globally, and my colleague, senator mccain, the two of us have championed legislation on capitol hill. Easy. Not our friends in the state department do not Like Congress getting involved. Universal, whether it is a democratic or republican administration, they would prefer we go away and not deal with us. We said, look, we are going to corruption,ght on first to do with the tragedies, but we had a face to put on what putin was doing. We said, if you are involved in gross violations of human rights, corruption, etc. , and your country does not take action against you, we will not give you the benefit of america. We will not allow you to visit assetsntry or hide your in our economy. That was passed. It was passed not just in the United States. It was passed in european countries. It has gotten a good amount of international attention. Now we can use these tools anywhere in the world. Me, people who are corruption what to visit their wealth. They dont want their wealth in their own country. It is making progress. Yesterday, i filed, along with senator purdue, a corruption index bill that will allow us to do what can be done in trafficking and persons that would document how every country is doing in their campaign against corruption by giving you can seegs, so how you are relative to the rest of the world, developing standards to fight corruption, transparency, those types of issues that are important to fight corruption, and then using that information in our different agencies of government, particularly our activities. Stance same thing with development goals. We were talking about that before. States, through our leadership, we are able to get the International Community working together with the United Nations to put Good Governance as one of our sustainable goals through the United Nations. Shannon if your bill goes forward, if it gets passed, it seems like a lot will depend on the agencies. There are those who worry that the Trump Administration, this is not a priority for them. And some of the leadership may not be there. What is your take . Sen. Cardin that was a pretty diplomatic way of putting it. [laughter] sen. Cardin the Trump Administration has made this much more difficult. For many, many reasons. I will try to be concise. I could really talk a long time about it. There was a highlight this week when President Trump met with president cc of president sisi of egypt. There are a lot of Strategic Issues mean to talk about, but clearly reforms in egypt need to be in the forefront of that discussion. Otherwise, you are again going to run into the problems of whether this government can maintain stability in a very important country in the middle east. President trump never mentioned that. Our values have to be front and center. It was not. We saw secretary tillerson talking about president aside , saying it isd perfectly ok for him to stay if the people of syria wants them. And we saw the horrific use of chemical weapons again by against innocent civilian populations. Of course, you should not be using chemicals at all. That lacked of moral clarity, clarity isf moral very damaging to our ability to dance these issues. Let me compare that to ambassador haley, who has been claritylear about moral issues. Anduld urge President Trump secretary tillerson to take an example from secretary from ambassador haley. Her comments about rush were very refreshing. And it was not Diplomatic Area but sometimes we have to say those things. Or comments about russia were very refreshing. To have the public statements on anticorruption and Good Governance. We have the problems of credibility of the Trump Administration. Aen you endorse fake news as strategy for Foreign Policy or domestic policy and you meet with foreign leaders to advance the governments, your credibility is much weekend. That is very true of the Trump Administration. A decision you are not going to divest yourself of your personal wealth as resident of the United States, as president of the United States, you can determine what is in conflict and what is not, let alone the violation of the enormous claws of the enoulmentson the the constitution. Approvals by the chinese authorities after years of fighting whose interests are being advanced . Or personaltates business interests . That makes it very difficult to stand up for Good Governance and anticorruption. Or on transparency. The president not releasing his tax returns. Transparency is one of the key strategies we are advancing one of the first bills in this congress sidetracking the provisions that senator lugar and i worked on on transparencies so poor countries could get the value of their minerals putting that on hold. All that compromises and lastly, when you present your priorities for the budget, the priorities you see for our country and you say we could reduce our International Development programs by 36 , and american needs to be there to all ofries develop weekends United States leadership and theres only one United States of america. There is only one country that can do what we can do and that has been severely damaged. Let me follow up on that. If our executive is not going to lead on this, is there anyone else to can pick up the mantle . Sen. Cardin it is very grim, but its not that grim. [laughter] supposed to im not share what happens in the meetings of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, so im going to violate that a little bit and that we have meetings with World Leaders and they meet with our committee. ,e had that with president sisi the day after he met with President Trump. Just about every member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee used their time in questioning president sisi on human rights. Just about every single member. And i think that was to counter oft was apparent by the lack that discussion or reporting of that discussion with President Trump. So, there is great interest. In the congress, we have great champions from both sides of the aisle. We had bipartisan support for the bill that we did. It was john mccain who insisted that anticorruption be part of this. Theres a strong interest in congress to advance these issues and we recognize both democrats and republicans, we have a challenge of his administration. We are working together to counter that. Shannon great. I am going to open this up to questions from our members in a few minutes. Because the president is today meeting with resident xi from from president xi china. We talked about china as a place of deepseated corruption. But when you think about our relationship with china sometimes a partner, often a competitor, and how you prioritize corruption and what would you have happened today . What would be useful in the u. S. China u. S. China relationship . It was encouraged that the president bring these issues up in his meeting. We had a bipartisan effort to encourage this to be on the agenda. I dont want to disappoint you, but the president did not share his agenda with me. I dont know how transparent it will be, their conversations. Disappointinglly things about secretary tillerson is that he is not sharing a lot of what he is doing with the American People and the Global Community, so we dont know what is happening. The megaphone is important here. So, it would be very helpful if the president did something visibly to show that human rights is on the agenda. Tillerson ismr. Going to be in russia. Will you have meetings with the opposition . Thats a very visible signee is open to the human rights agenda is share. We will be watching to see what transpires in the privacy of the meeting, but also what is broadcast. That is important. This cannot be kept private. There are too many fighting around the world. We met with courageous leaders he is entitled to know that we are fighting on his behalf, what he has gone through in russia. I think i differ with china doing good things to fight corruption. I dont think they are. We have notent xi seen a continuation of that. If anything, we have seen a retreat. It is more difficult for people to express themselves. Is a country that desperately needs to get back on track on reform, and they are going in the wrong direction right now. Shannon let me open it up to your questions. Onember, this is a meeting the record. The microphone will come around. State your name and your question please. [indiscernible] thank you for your leadership on these issues. Andtalked about leadership gave some examples of how there are some problems with the Current Administration. You did not say anything about the federal conflict interest have been which we told does not apply to the president. If that is true, doesnt that set a bad example for the united a standard that permits the chief executive . And if that is a problem, what is the solution to that . Sen. Cardin i think the federal conflict of interest does apply to the present, but let me explain that. I was part of the congress that tosed these laws in response some immediate concerns we had with the members of congress, etc. What we didnt want to be challenged was the president s authority to act, and therefore we did not want the ability to challenge the effectiveness of the president of the United States to speak definitively with the authority that he has. That is the reason he was given this leeway on being able to challenge his actions. To apply. Icts corruption statutes apply to the president of the United States. Clause is pretty clear. There is no question about that. I am concerned about his domestic conflicts. I am. There will be questions whether his office is being used for fromnal gain when personal gain. When his children traveled with all of the protection that is appropriate because of their Family Connection to the president of the United States and their vulnerabilities, that is intimidating to people that they are negotiating with on business deals. That to me is not appropriate. That is why we have the tradition in this country that every president has divested or to up blind trusts in order avoid the appearance of conflict or conflict situations. President trump has made the office of the president vulnerable because of his refusal to do that. If you wanted to be secretary of state, you had to divest. As he did. As present as secretary tillerson did. The president did not. That is just wrong. I understand the technical aspects of the statutes. But conflicts of light to every person in public life and the clause clearly applies to be president. Sarah chase from the carnegie endowment. To follow up on that question because of the credibility gap is so important to the United States ability to lead in this domain, understand where you are on the substance conflict of interest, divestiture, tax sen. Cardin tax returns. Thank you. Releasing tax returns. To achieveen able remarkable bipartisan consensus on moving some of these issues forward with respect to the international sphere. Have you begun engaging in conversations with your friends from the other side of the aisle on the application to the United States so some of these things which may have been tradition in the past become law and the law is eligible. There are some emolument cases at the moment. We have never been down this path before. We do not know about enforcement. Senator blumenthal is looking at different ways in which we may be able to develop standing, and he has been working on that. So, we are all working with him to see whether there is a way we can avoid this. I followed the resolution in congress to avoid this problem beforeold the presi