A nearby Bluegrass Festival offered a tempting distraction for the harmonica playing senator but mr. Kane stayed out of sight. That debate coming up in farmville, virginia at longwood. Niversity our coverage begin 7 30 eastern tomorrow night with the debate about 00 eastern. Our team is there getting prepped and prepare. We are taking great photos and videos behind the scenes of the event. We will now show you tonights Vice President for preview on cspan. Announcer the Vice President ial debate happens tuesday, october 4 at Longwood University in farmville, virginia. Cspans live coverage starts at 7 30 p. M. Eastern. The next 2. 5 hours, we will take a look of the candidates, virginia senator tim kaine and indiana governor mike pence, beginning with some of the earliest appearances on cspan. First, we would hear from tim kaine on cspans washington journal in may of 1997. He was then serving as a member of the Richmond City council. Joined on theow program by republican rick white on a bill describing taxing the internet. Legislation was signed into law in 1998 and included a threeyear ban on taxing internet services. Good morning to you. You are testifying before a congressional hearing on the subject this morning. What is your point of view . The point of view of me and other local officials is this bill concerns the internet tax freedom act for a couple of reasons. One, the main purpose is to preempt state and local taxation for an indefinite time on in on internet service. We have real concern about that. First, just a philosophical one. The federal government should certainly wrestled with a lot of federal tax issues, but when Congress Starts to sell states and localities about what local activities it should or should not tax to raise local revenue, we have real concerns about it. We also think there is not a need of preemption. Virginia, for example, my constituents are glad to call and complain about taxes, and i get them a lot, but i have never had a complaint about taxes related to internet transactions. I have surveyed other local officials in virginia and they feel the same way. A nationwide preemption of 30,000 local governments, saying for an indefinite time, there will be a moratorium on tax in this taxation industry, and finally, carving out this area of commerce, preempting a from taxes, it hurts local revenues but it is also potentially unfair for businesses that do not contract business over the internet. Why should we have a government mandated advantage for internet commerce and offer noninternet commerce . The manufacturing facilities, restaurants, etc. s would not have the benefit of the statue. It was for internet related commerce and that causes us some concern. Not want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg and we think there are ways to harmonize the way taxes are carried out by localities. There are ways to do that short of a statue. Congressman white are there any federal taxes when i go to the internet to buy anything . Gov. Pence no, there is Nothing Specific to the internet. You get income from the internet and you have to pay income taxes. You are a company that sells something and the internet, you still have to pay sales tax under our belt. We are not saying you can tax the transaction human tax locally just because it happened on the internet. What we do not want to see is people taxing the internet just because it is the internet. Tim kaine makes a point there are 30,000 Tax Jurisdictions around the United States and that is the problem. You have to make sure before we get too far down the pike with 30,000 different taxing schemes, we figure out exactly what this new medium is all about. Along with the moratorium last . Is indefinite under the bill. We did call for a twoyear study. The idea, we appoint a commission and we try to think about what makes sense in terms of taxing the internet, and we will have a report two years from now. Then, there is a good reason to let the moratorium, we can do that. What about his point regarding it is unfair to other people, to other local retailers who are not an the internet and have no plans to be on the internet . That is 1. I disagree with the most. What we try to do in our bill is to try to make sure if you conduct a transaction on the internet that would one time be subject to tax, you have to pay that tax. All we see is you cannot tax the internet just because it is the internet. Understand that state and local governments need tax revenue. There is a lot of obligations, not a lot of money and they are always looking for ways to find revenue. It is just that they are so creative, you have to stay one step ahead of them to make sure things do not get out of control. There is not a good reason to taxi internet because it is the internet. Cable licenses for cable tv where there are some ways that the state and local governments provide. This is nothing like that. State and local governments would like to find a way to derive revenue. I think that would be a mistake. To our viewers, if you would like to join us, please do. There are three numbers of the bottom of your screen as we take time to talk about this legislation of of congress. It is going to be the topic of a hearing today. I go online, i go to Something Like l. L. Bean, or people that do not have anything like this, they do not know what were talking about. You go to l. L. Bean which is located somewhere in maine, i am not even sure. Who knows. That is the good thing about the internet. They are readymade and i am in washington dc. Whose taxes do i pay if i ordered a coat . Sen. Kaine it is not different from mail catalogs. You were supposed to pay taxes on mail catalog purchases. We do not have a good mechanism. Catalog sales or internet transactions, it really relies on the consumers and everyone in knowledge is this is an area of taxation that is poorly enforced because we do not have the mechanism. They would be the same concern of an internet transaction as there would be foreign l. L. Bean catalog purchase. State but live in the the catalog operators are located, they will add a tax on the bill. It is a little bit more complicated for the internet because i could be in a thirdplace, could and i . I could be out west with my computer, ordering something from the northeast when i live someplace else. It is not that much more complicated because the internet uses the phone lines. We are not trying to change that. You should still have to pay a sales tax exactly the way you do now, when you get to the l. L. Bean website or you call them on the telephone. What we are trying to prevent is somebody in california which is all of the internet servers for the west coast of the United States taxing transactions that happened to one of my constituents in seattle and someone in maine just because the internet server happens to be located in california. That is what we are trying to avoid. How did you get involved in this issue . Sen. Kaine a couple of ways. I am on a policy committee at the richmond municipally telekinetic asia and sport and the fcc policy. It interests me. Probably Like Congress and white best congressman white, i am a person with young kids that are teaching me the internet. I think this is a dramatic and expanding part of the economy for the next few years, and putting it off limits for local tax purposes does cause a concern because it is such a new area. Workedes should be fair, out well between locales. Of course, there are many kinds of businesses that do business across state lines and it marketable jurisdictions. Multiple jurisdictions. I agree with the congressman, the internet is not that different than the telephone or catalog sales. We have been able to work out taxation in respects to those sectors of the industry. I do not see there is any reason we cannot here either. Our next segment features mike pence, just after his election to congress in november 2000. He won the seat in indianas Second District after running unsuccessfully in 1988 and 1990. The cspan interview took place on capitol hill. Mike pence, a representative Second District. In orientation, what have you learned about setting up a new Congressional Office . Gov. Pence i have learned it is as we expected, a massive undertaking, trying to build on a solid foundation. People have experienced and focused on meeting and addressing the ongoing needs of the people of the second Congressional District. Tell us about your home district. Gov. Pence the second two district of the second Congressional District is the heartland of america. Of industriale centers, but for the most part is a little it is a lot of farmland, small communities. I think it will be a delightful place to represent in washington dc as a conservative. What issues are you bringing you would like to focus on . Gov. Pence i would like to focus on tax relief. Once we keep our promises to senior citizens, it is imperative that we seized this time of extraordinary Budget Surplus to bring about tax relief for working families, Small Businesses and family farms. I am hearing from the people a real concern about military readiness and it national security, and im very much hoping to be a part of the discussion of rebuilding the military. Tell us about your background which includes broadcasting. Gov. Pence it does come although i trained as an attorney. I have spent the last seven years of my life working in syndicated call in radio, a sort of cspan without the cameras. Aenjoy that very much being daily syndicated talkshow host exclusively in indiana and also did a little bit of television work, and hopefully that is prepared me to be a listener. From those calls, what did you learn about your listeners . Gov. Pence i have learned that people are genuinely concerned with that which most closely touches their lives. The security of their families, the strength of their jobs at the local economy, the education of their children. Host, ias a talk show found when we were talking about issues that came close to home, we would strike a responsive chord, so if i come into congress, i hope to focus on those issues. You have three children . Gov. Pence they are all under the age of eight and the hardest working campaigners in indiana. With such small children, boy you be moving the family here . Gov. Pence it is a very difficult decision to make. We are going to make some plans in the short term to homeschool so that my wife, who is a 15 year Public School teacher can take on those duties and permit when live in both places congress is in session, i want my wife and children with me here and as soon as were out of session, we want to be home in indiana. A lot of talk with new members about the bipartisanship of the new members coming in, how would you reach across the political aisle . Gov. Pence i always used to say , i am a conservative but im not in a bad mood about it. I really believe that civility is essential to the survival of the republic. We have to develop once again in this congress and the National Government and National Debate, a new civility that brings with it a sense of humility, a sense of humor and the ability to argue the issues vigorously but walk out the door and understand we are all americans, we are all working hard to make america a better place. Announcer on april 5, 2003, the city of richmond and the u. S. Historical society unveiled a statue of Abraham Lincoln. According to the new york times, members of sons of confederate veterans held a protest that same day at the grave of jefferson davis. The statue commemorates president lincolns visit to richmond, shortly after the city fell to union forces near the end of the civil war. Then virginia Lieutenant Governor tim spoke at the dedication ceremony. [applause] sen. Kaine thank you all very much. The lincolndouglas debate often took four or five hours under a hot sun. This is about one hour 15 minutes and we are getting to be critical to part part and thank you for participating. What a great day to be in virginia. It is a great day to be in virginia. [applause] who kaine there are some have asked the question, does Abraham Lincoln belong in richmond, does Abraham Lincoln belong in virginia . What a great joy it gives me as someone elected to statewide office by the voters of the commonwealth of virginia to answer the question is i, yes, we claim Abraham Lincoln as one of our own. We claim Abraham Lincoln as a brother. We claim a virginian. [applause] we claim Abraham Lincoln as a brother in virginia and the cause family connections. His mother and fathers families were both from virginia. We claim him as a brother in virginia because of affection he held for the south, for southerners and virginians during his entire life, if the even during the difficult war years and especially the days after the war. We must especially claim lincoln as a virginian because the project of his mature adult life was to pick up and rescue from the to spend, the most virginia value that all men are created equal and work to continue the project that was authored by the jeffersoninia, thomas 85 years before. That was the work of Abraham Lincolns life. [applause] sen. Kaine to be true to virginia values. It is hard to remember this, Abraham Lincoln learned that those words of the declaration of independence when he was a young man, go into fourth of july ceremonies with the declaration of independence read. You know what folks . After the declaration of independence was prepared by jefferson, when the constitution was written a decade later, there was nothing in the constitution about equality of all men. That was left out in the constitution. Instead, the constitution enshrined inequality by protecting slavery. The constitution even said that africanamericans in the south might be counted as 3 5 of a person. Enshrining inequality, and that was the world that Abraham Lincoln grew up in. When he was out of politics, probably forever, according to him and others, but still following the events of the day, there were debates on the floor of the senate in which a senator from indiana, a Northern State said this about jeffersons word, senator john pettit of indiana in 1854 set jeffersons promise of equality was a selfevident lie. Jefferson said behold these truth is seven evidence that all men are created equal, but even northerner senators said those virginia values were lies, and at that point in lincolns life, he let go of every other political issue he had debated and talked about for the previous 20 years and up for the rest of his life, he argued one proposition, if slavery was true, the declaration of independence was a lie. At the declaration of independence was true, slavery was a lie. No equivocation, you had to make a choice. He argued that again and again to be elected as president in the emancipation proclamation, and the gettysburg address or he quoted jefferson and he said that fourscore and seven years ago, the nation was founded upon the shores conceived in liberty, dedicated to the, the single proposition that all men are created equal. To the lincoln restored Central Place in American Life the notion that we, all of us, are created equal, that in a short time after his death, Congress Finally change the constitution to outlaw slavery and also include the 14th amendment, protecting the equality of every person. And so, it was Abraham Lincoln that belongs in virginia, as long as anyone picks up that document Thomas Jefferson wrote about and works in the vineyard for equality, we in virginia are glad to claim him as our own, so yes, Abraham Lincoln is one of us, is one of us. [applause] announcer during his time in congress, mike pence spoke regularly at the annual march for life rally in washington dc. An event antiabortion activist used to mark the anniversary of the supreme courts roe versus wade decision. Here is a speech from the 30th annual rally in january 2003. [applause] gov. Pence thank you so much. Americabeautiful day in to see so many shining faces. I am congressman mike pence, i am from indiana and i am prolife. [applause] i rise as my colleagues have done it as we heard from the president of missouri to say yes to life. I rise to say it is time for the president of the United States of america to send in the principal prolife judges and we will move them as americans under the court and and roe versus wade forever. It is time for us under the leadership to end partialbirth abortion in this civilized country that has no place. It is time for all of the , adoption reforms and the president s vision for a faithbased initiative and will see resources, Pregnancy Centers and other industries therefore women with more than a hello choice with real answers meeting their real needs, but i am mostly here today as a father and as an american to say thank you to you from my heart. The cousin of you and the millions of americans you represent, abortion is in steep decline in america today. Abortion is less available, u. S. Legal, and most importantly, less morally acceptable than any other time since 1973. You alone can expose the empty promises of the left who offer a choice but deliver only heart ache and disappointment at the national conference. The media will depict some of us as strange for standing in the cold. Usa today said we should get on with it, that the extremist speeches heard today were a little bit crazy, and to be honest with you, i think of a song by billy joel that says you may be right. I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic ameri